Yeah I'm bothered by the fact that Cineform haven't given an ETA on when their device might be coming to market, which is why I'll probably end up buying this NanoFlash XDR. For me it's kinda, whichever comes first. Codec isn't TOO important with me, because they're both 4:2:2, perform inverse-telecine, and offer very high bitrate/quality.

I really like the specs on the Flash XDR... One very important factor for me... Will I be able to start/stop the unit via the built in start/stop rec. button (handgrip) on the camera?

If yes, how will this be achieved (time code movement or firewire out to trigger start/stop)?

Thanks,
Thomas

Dear Thomas,

If you set your camera to "Record Run" timecode, the Flash XDR will detect when the timecode starts (via the timecode embedded in the HD-SDI signal or the External Timecode Input) and then automatically start recording.

Just curious if there were any updates on the FAT32 code? The still images are fun but I am a video guy and I need to see these .mxf files work in FCP. This may be the greatest recorder in the world but it is a paper weight unless NLE's can read the video files.

David Schmerin

Hi David-
We're very close on the FAT32 and MXF file formats. We have the MXF code working on the MAC, just need to transfer the code to the MCU inside XDR. We will post files on our website ASAP and I'll post a message on this forum when they are avaialble.

Dan & Mike,

Thanks for this answer, as well as the interesting considerations re 24 vs 16 bit audio.

Any news on proposed XDR mounting options with the EX1?

Hi Piotr-
Yes, we have some updates on the mounting options. I will try to post next week.

one thing i think that might be important to keep in mind when comparing codecs especially through histograms is that the XDR is probably the only codec that isnt scaling the input*. seems pretty likely that the differences in the histogram might be related to the fact that different pixel values are being created through the combining/filtering/averaging of surrounding pixel values. that might be all you are seeing in the histograms. of course that is a wonderful thing, since scaling introduces various kinds of artifacts and of course softening itself, but im not sure those histograms tell us much about the compression codecs and how they compare. perhaps you could throw in another codec for comparison that supports 1080p without scaling, such as 50 or 35mbps xdcam or even something more competative like hdcamsr or cineform (especially relevant if cineform ever comes out with their similar solid state recording device)?

*for reference, dvcprohd scales the image to 1280x1080 and hdv scales it to 1440x1080, whereas xdr maintains the full 1920x1080 frame

Hi Noah-
I think you analysis is spot on. I also suspect that the changes in the histograms are largely caused by the horizontal sub-sampling used in HDV and DVCProHD. You can really see the differences on resolution comparison charts. The EX1/EX3 should really shine given the full 1920x1080 sensors combined with the full-raster MPEG2 CODEC used in XDR. This combo will completely eliminate any horizontal resizing (up or down) through acquisition and post production.

I can't wait, I just had to post, I waited almost a week (pat myself on the back).

But Mike can you post some footage, and to raise the stakes and see what a change it'll make for us, and yes its a bias request, but can you shoot something with a JVC HD251 in lowish light without gain, and heck, why not with maybe 3db gain.

Forgive my impatience, but I look at my noisy JVC footage, as great a camera as it is, and think "More", I need "More" (which when it comes to noise actually means "Less" I need "Less"!)

The Canon XLH1 and EX1 are great cameras, but they have a lotter lower noise levels than the JVC, so that's also why I think it would be a good test, and maybe if you record simultaneously hdv to tape and sdi to CF, then post both avi's, we could see back to back what kind of difference to expect?

I haven't yet used my SDI output, so I don't know if you can simultaneously do both tape and SDI, I presume because you can do firewire out and tape that you can.

Hey there's one born every minute, but if you want some beta testing in severe hot and dusty enviroments, I'll volunteer, I'll be in Australia's Outback shooting a doco possible to become TV series soon.

cheers

Adam

And sorry for being too zealous here

:-P

Dear Adam,

We share your excitement.

We are making solid progress in our final steps to deliver the Flash XDR.

We have an XL H1 and an XH G1 in house for testing. We also have access to the Sony EX1.

We plan on recording footage, using a few cameras, using the Flash XDR, recording to Compact Flash. Then we plan on posting the resulting files so that others can see and work with the footage.

If we can arrange access to the JVC HD251, then we should be able to perform some tests, as soon as we can find the time. When we do so, we will be happy to record under the conditions you specify, if at all possible.

I have not studied the JVC HD251, but I feel confident that you should be able to record to tape and output HD-SDI simultaneously.

Just catching up on this product. This looks very interesting! When NLE support is up an running are you expected to be able to use the XDCAM software or the FCP P2 log and capture window. I am looking at the Sony EX3 with a Letus Extreme setup. Just wondering how to get the footage in to FCP.

The XDR looks like a great product... a question I keep asking myself...

How do you see Cineform working with the XDR...

Dear Ray,

I assume that if you are using Cineform now, you do one of the following:

1. You capture your footage creating a file on your hard disk drive, then use Cineform to encode/transcode the footage.

2. You bypass the capture process by using a memory medium other than tape that can be read by your computer and use Cineform to encode/transcode your footage directly from your source footage.

The Flash XDR allows you to use both of the above methods to encode/transcode your footage into the Cineform codec.

How do you see Cineform working with the XDR...

The XDR uses an MPEG2 codec, so if you need Cineform for your workflow you can transcode it using Prospect.

George/

Just catching up on this product. This looks very interesting! When NLE support is up an running are you expected to be able to use the XDCAM software or the FCP P2 log and capture window. I am looking at the Sony EX3 with a Letus Extreme setup. Just wondering how to get the footage in to FCP.

Hi Matthew-
We are working with the Final Cut Pro team now to seamlessly allow you to bring footage into the log and capture window. I hope to have a press release this week detailing the planned integration.

Mike I can't see anywhere 720 25p support, I know you can drop 720 50p onto a 25p timeline, but is there a reason for this?

Or maybe simply I can't find it, the convergent site doesn't have it listed in the specs

thanks

Adam

Mike I can't see anywhere 720 25p support, I know you can drop 720 50p onto a 25p timeline, but is there a reason for this?

Or maybe simply I can't find it, the convergent site doesn't have it listed in the specs

thanks

Adam

Hi Adam-
Currently, FCP only supports 720p50 and 720p60 with the 50Mbps 4:2:2 CODEC, so we have limited are support accordingly. I think our CODEC will support the 720p25, but we really need the corresponding NLE support.

That said, we may see expanded support in the future. Also I don't know about the support of 720p25 (at 50 Mbps) from other NLE programs at this point.

Wouldn't 720p50 be preferred over 720p25 in most applications? Or do you plan to go to film?

Hi Adam-
Currently, FCP only supports 720p50 and 720p60 with the 50Mbps 4:2:2 CODEC, so we have limited are support accordingly. I think our CODEC will support the 720p25, but we really need the corresponding NLE support.

That said, we may see expanded support in the future. Also I don't know about the support of 720p25 (at 50 Mbps) from other NLE programs at this point.

Wouldn't 720p50 be preferred over 720p25 in most applications? Or do you plan to go to film?


I would like to throw in a vote for 720P25. If you want a more film like cadence, you can get better quality per frame at the same data rate.

Also DnxHD (Avid) supports this (and I would guess Prores as well but don't have FCP) so although the footage would have to be transcoded it still seems like a good acquisition format...

keep up the good work Mike.

Is the main format I shoot in, the cadence is very film like even if it's not a film out, everybody who sees my stuff thinks it's very 'film' like. And even though by no means do I knock the 'video' look, but people love the whole my video looks like a movie thing.
So yes a definite can we have it please.

Thanks

Adam

Same opinion from here, Mike.

The EX1's 720/25p is a great format; it'd be a pity having to drop it with nanoFlash...

Hi Adam-
Currently, FCP only supports 720p50 and 720p60 with the 50Mbps 4:2:2 CODEC, so we have limited are support accordingly. I think our CODEC will support the 720p25, but we really need the corresponding NLE support.

That said, we may see expanded support in the future. Also I don't know about the support of 720p25 (at 50 Mbps) from other NLE programs at this point.

Wouldn't 720p50 be preferred over 720p25 in most applications? Or do you plan to go to film?

Is FCP the only NLE you are supporting now? Hey FCP doesn't support 160 mbits either but that is still in the XDR. I know a lot and I mean a lot of people that shoot 720p 25p and 720p 50p that turn it into 25p slow motion. I thought the whole point to the XDR was to make it universal for everybody.

Is FCP the only NLE you are supporting now? Hey FCP doesn't support 160 mbits either but that is still in the XDR. I know a lot and I mean a lot of people that shoot 720p 25p and 720p 50p that turn it into 25p slow motion. I thought the whole point to the XDR was to make it universal for everybody.

Hi Everyone-
OK, I get the message, we'll put in all the formats regardless of the NLE support. It is actually quite simple to add all the formats, but we'll likely have to pony up for an Iconix camera since it's about the only device that can generate all the various flavors for HD-SDI.

Hi Everyone-
OK, I get the message, we'll put in all the formats regardless of the NLE support. It is actually quite simple to add all the formats, but we'll likely have to pony up for an Iconix camera since it's about the only device that can generate all the various flavors for HD-SDI.

You could do it with a Blu-ray player and an HDMI to HD-SDI converter (eg nano-connect:-).

Does that make sense?

You could do it with a Blu-ray player and an HDMI to HD-SDI converter (eg nano-connect:-).

Does that make sense?

Hi John-
Yes, that might work fine. But I think we'll need to get an Iconix anyway for long-term compatibility testing. A considerable number of customers plan to use the Flash XDR / nanoFlash with the Iconix camera.

Hi Everyone-
OK, I get the message, we'll put in all the formats regardless of the NLE support. It is actually quite simple to add all the formats, but we'll likely have to pony up for an Iconix camera since it's about the only device that can generate all the various flavors for HD-SDI.

Maybe Iconix would be smart to provide C-V with a loaner since their camera and the XDR/Nano are a perfect marriage for their miniaturized system.

Couldn't you just drop every other frame from a 720p 50p SDI signal? Like you said most cameras even if the user is shooting 25p will still output as 50p via SDI but that user would still want the video encoded as 25p to save bandwidth or boost quality. 720p 25p at 50 mbits/s is really awesome looking.

Couldn't you just drop every other frame from a 720p 50p SDI signal? Like you said most cameras even if the user is shooting 25p will still output as 50p via SDI but that user would still want the video encoded as 25p to save bandwidth or boost quality. 720p 25p at 50 mbits/s is really awesome looking.

Hi Thomas-
Yes, this is certainly a possibly solution. Dropping every other frame would be a simple answer.

Do the new Sandisk Extreme III 16G cards meet the Flash XDR's specs?... noticed Sandisk have a good rebate deal going for US users (bit strange because you get it inthe form of a pre-paid Visa card so it ain't cash)...

Details on B&H's website.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542732-REG/Sandisk_SDCFX3_016GR_16GB_Extreme_III_CompactFlash.html

Do the new Sandisk Extreme III 16G cards meet the Flash XDR's specs?... noticed Sandisk have a good rebate deal going for US users (bit strange because you get it inthe form of a pre-paid Visa card so it ain't cash)...

Details on B&H's website.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542732-REG/Sandisk_SDCFX3_016GR_16GB_Extreme_III_CompactFlash.html

The minimum data rate on the new Extreme IIIs is 30MB/s or 240Mbps which is more than enough for any of the MPEG 2 data rates.

Dear E. J.,

Currently, the Transcend 16 GB 300x and the Transcend 32 GB 133x are the fully qualified and recommended CompactFlash Cards.

The Transcend cards more than meet their specifications. Mike calls these cards "Overachievers”!

We are waiting to test the Microdia 64 GB card. I assume that this will be the first of many 64 GB cards. The Microdia one is rated at 300x both read and write, but we do not know the price at this time.

The SanDisk may work just fine.

E.J, I know you know this, but for others that are reading this: The speed ratings of many manufacturers cards, such as 133x, usually indicate the fastest that the card can be read under ideal conditions, while the write speeds are usually much slower.

For certain premium cards, the read and write speeds are essentially the same.

For the Flash XDR and nanoFlash, the write speed is much more critical.

Sound Devices, on their website, has the detailed results of their testing of CompactFlash cards.

Please note that Sound Devices' tests are great for general comparison of various CompactFlash cards. When the same card is used within the Flash XDR or nanoFlash, the speeds will be different since we do not have to go through a Firewire interface.

http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/file-formats/cf-speeds/

I am certain that we have tested the SanDisk Extreme III 16 GB card, I just do not have the specific results with me at this time.

For certain premium cards, the read and write speeds are essentially the same.

This is true for Sandisk as they rate their cards based on minimum write speeds. This is why Sandisks are the only cards that consistently perform in a RED. It's nice that unlike most other manufacturers, they don't market their cards based on the highest achievable read speed.

Although I completely understand the need to tell people which cards are 'qualified and recommended' I know that our Extreme III/IVs will have absolutely no issues in the XDR.

Dear E.J.,

The $90 rebate on the SanDisk Extreme III 16 GB card certainly makes this attractive.

I will get an answer as soon as possible.

I am certain that we have tested the SanDisk Extreme III 16 GB card, I just do not have the specific results with me at this time.


The current Extreme IIIs write speeds are now higher than they where, so you need to make sure which generation card you've tested.

Of course given how differently CF cards perform in different devices, I guess I should just shut up. The Transcends are cheaper anyway.

Dear E.J.,

Yes, that is exactly the problem.

In years past, when a CompactFlash card manufacturer came out with a specific model of a card, one could expect that future cards of the same model, from the same brand, would have the same performance.

A few years ago this changed for some manufacturers, but not others.

Thus, if one has a SanDisk Extreme III card, it may not perform the same as another SanDisk Extreme III, of the same capacity, purchased at the same time, or at a different time.

As you can see, with the performance that we need from each CompactFlash card to ensure glitch-free recordings, this causes us a problem.

The SanDisk cards might work OK in Flash XDR and nanoFlash, but we will need to test and qualify. To be honest, our engineers are maxed out now developing the QT and MXF code. So, it may be a month or so before we can do the necessary tests for the different CF cards. In the meantime, we're asking that everyone just use the Transcend card, since they seem to be very reasonably priced and widely available.

In the future, we do plan to publish a list of our test results with various CF cards and readers. I have asked our engineers to develop a test program to allow users to evaluate the write and read performance of a given CF card in Flash XDR and nanoFlash. The test results would be displayed on the LCD screen.

Hello.
I've been watching the XDR for a long time now (well actually checking out the site and hearing some bits of information here and there) but i'm seriously thinking about purchasing one.

I have a couple of very noobish questions so please if you have the time answer them or direct me to some links in this thread where I can find the answers because I didn't have the nerves to go through 19 pages of thread:

1) The critical one. I have an EX1. I'm not sure what kind of video signal the camera outputs through its SDI port. Can the XDR capture 1080p from this camera or at least 720p ?

2) As the SDI port will already be occupied with the XDR if i have an external monitor with SDI inputs what are my options ? I assume I can connect the monitor through the SDI interface of the XDR right ?

3) Can I record both to the EX1's cards and to the XDR simultaneously ?

4) How is the playback of files integrated in the XDR ? I've read something about this but i didn't quite understand. Is it similar to a tape - i have to manually rewind to the part that i want - or to EX1's clips ?

5) Audio - if i understand corectly i can plug an external microphone directly into the XDR instead of the XLR inputs of my EX1 ? Does the XDR have phantom power ?
Is there a better audio quality if i do this ?

Can i use all 4 (XDR + EX1) inputs to put them into 4 channels ?
What are the audio capabilities of the XDR (no of channels sampling rate etc. ) compared to the HD standard ?

6) ummm...is it available ? :D

Thanks very much and sorry if my questions have been asked countless times before.

Hello.
I've been watching the XDR for a long time now (well actually checking out the site and hearing some bits of information here and there) but i'm seriously thinking about purchasing one.

I have a couple of very noobish questions so please if you have the time answer them or direct me to some links in this thread where I can find the answers because I didn't have the nerves to go through 19 pages of thread:

1) The critical one. I have an EX1. I'm not sure what kind of video signal the camera outputs through its SDI port. Can the XDR capture 1080p from this camera or at least 720p ?

>>> The Flash XDR can handle, as input, the datastreams that the EX1 is capable of producing through its HD-SDI output port.

Without getting too technical, the EX1 is not capable, as far as I know, of producing 1080p60, but it is capable of producing 1080i60 and other 1080p modes, but just not 1080p60 as this is more data than a HD-SDI single link (at 1.485 Gigabits per second) can handle. It take a HD-SDI dual link (which the EX1 does not have) or a 3.0 Gigabits per second single link (which the EX1 does not have, as far as I know).

Sorry for the very technical answer, but I did not think the simple answer was adequate.

The Flash XDR can not transpose 1080i to 720p or vice versa. The signal from your camera is what is recorded, except that we will compress the HD-SDI signal to one of the user selectable modes. We just can't change 1080i to 720p or 720p to 1080i.

2) As the SDI port will already be occupied with the XDR if i have an external monitor with SDI inputs what are my options ? I assume I can connect the monitor through the SDI interface of the XDR right ?

>>> Yes, the HD-SDI output of the Flash XDR is designed specifically for this purpose.


3) Can I record both to the EX1's cards and to the XDR simultaneously ?

>>> Yes. And you can record on the Flash XDR without recording in camera.

4) How is the playback of files integrated in the XDR ? I've read something about this but i didn't quite understand. Is it similar to a tape - i have to manually rewind to the part that i want - or to EX1's clips ?

>>> The Flash XDR is a file based system. After recording a clip, you can just hit play and it will playback what you just recorded. Or you can select another clip to playback.

>>> If you are playing back, you can hit record and it will start recording immediately, but it will not overwrite any existing takes, it will automatically advance to the proper place for the recording to start. It does this instantly, it is not like tape.

5) Audio - if i understand corectly i can plug an external microphone directly into the XDR instead of the XLR inputs of my EX1 ?

>>> Yes. And you can connect the XLR outputs of the Flash XDR to the XLR inputs of the EX1 to record a sound track in camera, if desired.

Does the XDR have phantom power ?

>>> Yes. +48V phantom power is available and it is user selectable.

Is there a better audio quality if i do this ?

>>> For most all cameras, yes. The Flash XDR is capable of 24 bit audio and the audio circuits use very high quality components. Our goal was to produce very high quality audio.

Can i use all 4 (XDR + EX1) inputs to put them into 4 channels ?
What are the audio capabilities of the XDR (no of channels sampling rate etc. ) compared to the HD standard ?

>>> Our plans are to enable what you have requested. This will be in a future firmware release. It may be the the current firmware release, but I do not think so.

>>> The Flash XDR will record up to 8 audio channels embedded in the HD-SDI input stream. Our goal is to record embedded and/or external audio, or a combination of both, as desired, up to a total of 8 audio channels.

The recordings will be at 16 bit or 24 bit (user selectable) and 48K samples per second.


6) ummm...is it available ? :D

We have a backlog of orders at this time which we are attempting to fill as fast as we can.

Thanks very much and sorry if my questions have been asked countless times before.

>>> We are happy to answer your questions. Please feel free to ask some more.

thank you for the great andswer. Great little device.

1) I was not talkning about 1080 60p. The Ex1 is not capable of this (just 720 60p) . I just wanted to know is the XDR can capture 1920 * 1080 @ 24p. I'm asking this because as far as i understand the EX1 can output just 1080i through it's SDI which if true, very unfortunate in my opinion. I would have loved to capture 1080p with your high quality codec.
Or if i record 1080 24P with the EX1 and the SDI ouputs 1080i maybe the XDR can do some pulldown removal and i'll end up with 1080p final data stream ?


2) So you have a price for the 10 bit software updgrade ?

3) I saw that the XDR has Anton Bauer, IDX and tripod connectors. So i can mount the XDR to a 3-stud battery plate or a v-mount one ? The tripod is a 1/4 20" hole that can be screwed in right?

4) How do you power the XDR. I've read the brochure but couldn't find any information regarding this.

5) When do you think you will have the units ready for shipping for everyone and not just by booking them.

Thanks again.

I just wanted to know is the XDR can capture 1920 * 1080 @ 24p. I'm asking this because as far as i understand the EX1 can output just 1080i through it's SDI which if true, very unfortunate in my opinion.


The EX will output 1080i over SDI and progressive will be embedded. With pulldown removal (which I believe the XDR/nano are capable of doing) you end up with true progressive footage on your storage media.

With firmware 1.11 with EXes are also capable of outputting 1080p @24 directly from the HS SDI out.

So you have a price for the 10 bit software updgrade ?

This would be the "uncompressed option". MPEG2 is always 8-bit. I believe there is a guide price on the upgrade in another thread. It may also be on the C-D website.

George/

Thank you for the great answer. Great little device.

1) I was not talkning about 1080 60p. The Ex1 is not capable of this (just 720 60p) . I just wanted to know if the XDR can capture 1920 * 1080 @ 24p.

>>> Yes.

I'm asking this because as far as i understand the EX1 can output just 1080i through it's SDI which if true, very unfortunate in my opinion. I would have loved to capture 1080p with your high quality codec.

>>> The Flash XDR is capable of recording 1080p24. As with all cameras, as far as I know, this (technically) comes across the HD-SDI as 24p embedded in a 1080i60 datastream.

>>> We only record the proper frames, the redundant frames are skipped.

Or if i record 1080 24P with the EX1 and the SDI ouputs 1080i maybe the XDR can do some pulldown removal and i'll end up with 1080p final data stream ?

>>> Yes, see the above answer.


2) So you have a price for the 10 bit software updgrade ?

>>> This will become available as our "Uncompressed Option" for $995 US. We would like for you to check out 100 Mb mode first as "Uncompressed" creates a lot of data.

3) I saw that the XDR has Anton Bauer, IDX and tripod connectors. So i can mount the XDR to a 3-stud battery plate or a v-mount one ?

>>> Mike Schell will need to answer this question.

The tripod is a 1/4 20" hole that can be screwed in right?

>>> Yes.

4) How do you power the XDR. I've read the brochure but couldn't find any information regarding this.

>>> The Flash XDR has a 4-pin XLR connector for power input. The voltage can be 6 to 20 Volts.

>>> Also, the Flash XDR comes with an AC power supply.

5) When do you think you will have the units ready for shipping for everyone and not just by booking them.

>>> We are in a mode of building the units as fast as we can. Our team worked over the weekend to build a batch for shipment this week.

>>> We will be in a continous process of building, testing, and shipping the units. But, it is difficult to predict when we will just have them "On the Shelf", ready for shippment immediately, as this depends on the number of orders we receive.

Thanks again.

>>> We welcome your questions.

Woww...great feedback from you guys. Thanks a lot!

@George: Thanks ! Really helped me. Do you know if I have to send the EX1 to Sony for firmware upgrade or can i do it myself ?