Hi all!

I am using Premiere CS3 to edit HDV footage shot at 30P (1280 X 720) on my JVC HD100.

I am completely baffled as to how to export the final timeline. I have no idea what settings I am supposed to be using and I find it rather confusing to be honest.

My clips are captured to a Firestore drive (made for the JVC) and they look great (.m2t which is just mpeg files) but I don't seem to be able to find a decent export setting that would allow me to keep the filetype/settings the same and encode to other devices at different resolutions etc. externally.

Basically I just want to output in the highest quality possible and worry about converting to DVD or other (including Hi Def) formats outside of the program.

I have tried encoding to quicktime, avi and mpeg at the moment and none of the results are very good.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated. I can't afford cineform right now so I will have to pass on that suggestion :)

Regards and thanks in advance!

P.S. I am using a new Quad core PC that is smoking fast at editing!

Julian

I hope someone with more experience offers some info but in my trials over the last couple weeks the best results have been from wmv9. I selected one of the hd presets and then changed the frame rate to what I used in my project. The 5 minute video came in around 350mb and looks excellent. I highly recommend using the export work area option to test the various options because the whole 5 minute project takes about a half hour to export.

Basically I just want to output in the highest quality possible and worry about converting to DVD or other (including Hi Def) formats outside of the program.


HuffyUV or another lossless codec. Frameserver is a faster and more efficient method, however.

I just added a timeline to Encore-- the video was exported with the WMV9 codec and looked superb- almost no quality loss compared to the original hd footage... sadly it doesn't play smoothly in Encore. Back to the drawing board.

Were you playing encore from within encore or did you export a BD folder or disk and tried it?

On the computer I have noticed that encore often plays unevenly, but the finished project is fine.

Using windows media player if the file is interlaced it seems to have more trouble than if it is deinterlaced.

So can you tell us which you were doing? thru encore or thru BD or DVD folder.

Bill in Ohio

Playing from within Encore (exported file looks and plays perfectly in WMP). My workflow so far: import footage [Canon XH-A1], edit in Premiere CS3, export with these settings:
WMV9, 2 pass, variable constrained bitrate (average=8mbps, peak 10mbps), hd anamorphic pixels. I just found out about bitrate calculators- will be trying them out next time.
Open Encore project, import as timeline the video file I just created. Design menu/buttons and build.

Hi Greg and the others. So your able to import these into encore and burn a dvd with the imported WMV files/clips? I am just like countless others(and yourself) still trying to get that "hd" look that comes from the camera onto my and others that I produce the video for onto dvd's. So this setting is turning out good results for you then? Please do share. I will play with it also to see if I can do that also and see how it looks.. And to be honest, the thing I am wondering is if you burnded a RW yet from this workflow, if so, how does that play back and look? Thanks for the tip, but more input if you don't mind...

D

I also am trying it out to see how it looks as I type this. It is taking a little while to export, but if it looks great, who cares! He He He I am psyched.

I'm rendering the finished sequence one more time (made a few changes to the timeline) as we speak. When it's done I'll plug that new timeline into Encore and see if it will play on a DVD. Right now though the best looking results have come via WMV9, 2 pass, variable bit constrained br, hd anamorphic pixels and 1440x1080. The resulting 5 minute/320mb wmv file looks stunning. Like I said before- it plays perfectly in WMP and not too smoothly in Encore, but I've yet to burn it to DVD. Should have something to play on my hdtv this afternoon though.
You'd think with the advent of hd video this sort of thing would be priority number one for a huge number of people but it's still trial and error for us newbs. Jillions of tutorials on how to make a 320x240 video or sd video but hd... feels like we're on our own.

Hi Greg, I agree. And I transcoded my test two minute file. Mine also stuttered after you stated yours did before and during the transcoding. Once that was done, and I played it back, it was as smooth as normal. So I am buring the file to see how it looks. The one thing I am really concerned about is with the encore transcoding, how it will ultimately look. I am wondering if it would look just like another encore/premiere transcode.. Oops! Its done! Be back in a few...

Right now though the best looking results have come via WMV9 [...]. The resulting 5 minute/320mb wmv file looks stunning.

I hate to be the voice of reason here, guys, but uncompressed is much, much better than WMV. Doubly so when WMV is just your intermediate file.

Let me repeat my advice from earlier: use an uncompressed or lossless codec, such as HuffyUV, if you absolutely must export a separate file.

However, it's (again) more efficient to skip the export step entirely and use DebugMode FrameServer to stream uncompressed video into whatever program you use for the final encoding.

Daniel, I have a question for you because I have Cinemacraft Basic and they mentioned something about AviSynth. They mentioned scripts and it scared me off.. Is it complicated or something I am being intimidated by for no reason?

Ok, I downloaded a sample script, and I sort of get how you change the directory. For example, here is the sample that I downloaded, but my question is how does the encoder read the file or import that text file? That is what I am having a hard time with? And don't I need to export at some point to have a reference file that avisynth links to? Basically, how do I for example say I want it to link to a certain timeline if I do not export the timeline first of all from premiere?

Damon

Daniel, I have a question for you because I have Cinemacraft Basic and they mentioned something about AviSynth. They mentioned scripts and it scared me off.. Is it complicated or something I am being intimidated by for no reason?

You don't need any scripts. There are so few options that anyone can learn the entirety of its usage in a single day. I've trained editors on it in just a few minutes (face-to-face).

1. Install FrameServer
2. If the installation doesn't automatically install your plugin, you may have to manually copy the file. Just copy the frameserver plugin file into the Premier Pro folder (usually C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Premier Pro CS3\Plug-ins\en_US\).
3. Start FrameServer from within Premier Pro.
4. Click the audio checkbox and YUV setting, and choose where you save your faux AVI file.
5. While that is running, open the program you want to encode with.
6. Open the AVI file.

Some programs (like Cinema Craft Encoder) require a VDR file instead of an AVI file. Others may only work with RGB instead of YUV. Try it out.

Ok, I installed AviSynth, so you said to start the frameserver from within premiere, so is it on the File, Export menu? I really want to try this, but I am completely green on this. Once I installed AviSynth, I do see how it will import the file into Cinemacraft, but for a plugin, I am dying now to see how to do this. Or do I need to install something else instead of AviSynth?

Ok, I installed AviSynth, so you said to start the frameserver from within premiere, so is it on the File, Export menu?

Yes. You'll find it listed in the options after you click File->Export->Movie. (After, of course, you install it.)


I really want to try this, but I am completely green on this. Once I installed AviSynth, I do see how it will import the file into Cinemacraft, but for a plugin, I am dying now to see how to do this. Or do I need to install something else instead of AviSynth?

AviSynth is different from DebugMode FrameServer (http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/).

Got ya Daniel! LOL I have downloaded Debugmode Frameserver and am installing now.. Give me just a sec.. But the Frameserver will be in the File Export Movie option also correct?

Ok, there are two exe's: DFsNetClient.exe and DFsNetServer.exe I moved the NetServer file and it is still not showing in the output options of the movie dialog box. Do I need to restart my machine or do I move the other?

Damon

Ok, there are two exe's: DFsNetClient.exe and DFsNetServer.exe I moved the NetServer file and it is still not showing in the output options of the movie dialog box. Do I need to restart my machine or do I move the other?

Damon

Neither. The file is cm-dfscPremiereOut.prm. You do not need to restart your machine, just restart Premier.

How Weird, that is not showing at all. I actually did a search of the CS3 folder and it is not in there.

How Weird, that is not showing at all. I actually did a search of the CS3 folder and it is not in there.

During installation it will ask you where to install the file. The default location is "C:\Program Files\", but should be changed to:

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Premier Pro CS3\Plug-ins\en_US\

If you didn't change it, then you may manually copy the file from "C:\Program Files" to the correct directory.

Thanks Daniel for the help- I really appreciate it, and will be giving Frameserver a try when I get some time.
You said an uncompressed video is much better- and that's what I looked for the first time out, but couldn't find a reasonable way to do it. When I select uncompressed avi for the codec I get a 40gig file (5 minute video) and WMP player gives me an error (won't play it). Can you even output an uncompressed hd file from Premiere CS3 without third party software?
By the way- the DVD I burned with the WMV video file plays well. Looks good but not great on a 57" hd tv. So I'm still looking for a satisfactory workflow...

Thanks Daniel for the help- I really appreciate it, and will be giving Frameserver a try when I get some time.
You said an uncompressed video is much better- and that's what I looked for the first time out, but couldn't find a reasonable way to do it. When I select uncompressed avi for the codec I get a 40gig file (5 minute video) and WMP player gives me an error (won't play it).

That's no surprise. It takes quite a computer to be able to play uncompressed video in real time. Even if you had a computer and RAID system capable of playing it, WMP is *not* a very good player. I recommend Media Player Classic or VideoLAN. No one uses uncompressed video because there are several lossless codecs that are rather light on the CPU, like HuffyUV (for starters). Still, many computers can't play back even lossless compression in real time without an upgrade to quality RAID.

Of course, you can skip all the trouble of dealing with huge file sizes by just using FrameServer.

Can you even output an uncompressed hd file from Premiere CS3 without third party software?

You already did. I don't understand why ayone would arbitrarily limit themselves from using third-party software.

Not limiting myself- just not aware of what's out there. I'm new to this remember.

Hi Daniel and Greg!

Daniel! Got it going. I see though that I will have to change my presets in the encoder before I bring the fileserve in to the encoder because I get an error if I do them afterwards. Anyhow, I am working with it now, so we will see how it goes and looks.

Greg: That is the issue I am facing and have been myself. But if I plug the output of my dvd player to my little 4:3 television, it looks ridiculously sharp. My television or LCD is 37 inches though, and no matter which settings I specify, it looks a bit pixelated, but I will see how this frameserving looks. I am actually encoding the two minute file now, so we will see how that goes.

Daniel, thanks though, I do appreciate it. I did change to the YUV2 output, so hopefully this will work. But its a very cool prospect though.

Well guys, I have burned two discs and unfortunately and to be honest, they really don't look any better(if anything they look worse) than the flow I had exporting to I-frame and then encoding in Cinemacraft. I do always appreciate the experience however. Thank you Daniel as I do appreciate it, and now I know a little about file serving. But with all the steps, for me it just wasn't worth it.

I guess to get better quality, I am going to have to wait for blue ray burners to drop. That is short of buying Cinemacrafts 2K encoder, but that will not happen.

However, thanks a million guys, and Greg, I wish you the best with your quest. For me, its back to Matrox movie export... LOL

D

Well guys, I have burned two discs and unfortunately and to be honest, they really don't look any better(if anything they look worse)


If an uncompressed intermediate looks worse than an MPEG-2 intermediate, something is wrong. Could it just be the resize-algorithm in Premier? You can frameserve to VirtualDub, resize, sharpen, then frameserve out to the mpeg-2 encoder. Maybe it's one of the export settings.

I'm just curious though, suppose we aren't using a 3rd party application for export (I assume Adobe has made an application that is supposed to handle HDV out if it takes it in). What settings are we supposed to use in CS3 that allow us to export this HDV footage in as close to the same format as we brought it in?

Personally I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy Cineform (outrageously priced imho) but I would rather do my best to try and export somehow in HDV right from Premiere.

I might even look at another program to be honest. It is very frustrating buying all this stuff only to find out it doesn't work without a ton of 3rd party applications.

I absolutely agree Julian. Regarding other nle's-- I've tried this in Final Cut Pro and the results were certainly not better and possibly worse even.

This is an interesting and pertinent little item I found on the Cineform website:
http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/Export2DVD.htm

This is an interesting and pertinent little item I found on the Cineform website:
http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/Export2DVD.htm

Now I just need to come up with yet another $500 to output using Cineform.. crazy!

Julian

Exactly, it's like a no win situation until you can purchase a HD burner and burn the HD content in it's native and higher bitrate. This is the option I am holding out for to be honest. In the meantime, I am after trying the frameserve going to stick with my output.

Daniel: I am not sure to be honest. It was weird what it did. It actually looked worse upon the encode which I did in the Cinemacraft Basic. It also distorted the audio very badly. I am thinking it is a possibility(maybe remote) that it may be a conflict with the Matrox hardware/drivers. Though, I am not sure and somewhat doubt it. I just don't want to crash the system experimenting, so I simply uninstalled it. But all I did was change to the YUV2 and thats it. I let it frameserve, brought the file into Cinemacraft Basic, encoded like usual and that was it. But yup, it did look worse than the I-frame. Alot worse unfortunately.

I downloaded Aspect HD (Cineform) and tried that out. The resulting file looks very good but I'd have to look at two monitors side by side to tell if it's any better than the wmv file I made a few days ago. The file size is three times as big as the wmv file, which is not important for a DVD but just thought I'd mention it.
After burning the DVD the video looks just ok on a 57" hd tv-- pretty much the same as the DVD made with a wmv file instead of the Cineform avi. Ah well- it's good practice.

Have any of you tried encoding directly back to the native HDV format from your editing timeline, and if so how was the quality of that approach in CS3? That's what I've been doing from Edius and the results look fine when played on a Sony Playstation 3 to a 1080p HDTV.

The problem with going back out to HDV is it is an mpeg format which is horrible for compression and re-compression.

I was playing with Huffyuv again but it gives me major errors in vista so I am back to the drawing board and think I am going to try uncompressed .avi for awhile until I have more time to play with it all.

Julian

I'd appreciate a report on how that goes Julian. The one time I exported an uncompressed file it was so big I thought it was a mistake. 5 minutes of edited video came out to over 40gigs!

I've been using DebugMode Frameserver to export my Cineform Aspect HD project to TMPGEnc... looks great and gets around having to have huge files hanging around on your harddisk.

Greg: I gave up on Huffyuv as I was getting comm errors in vista. I searched all over the place but wasn't able to solve the problem (tried an earlier version) and Nero wasn't installed along with all the other possible solutions.

I've given up to be honest for now and I am just exporting right to DVD mpeg2 from the Adobe timeline.

Hopefully soon I can afford cineform but I hate parting with that kind of money just to be able to output from Premiere.. ah well :)

Julian

Dare I say it...I had a pleasant output in 720p HD from the newest Divx. Way better experience than QT or WM and it works like an avi codec. I just used the free version and chose their High Definition profile from premiere's export movie. The Divx player works great in full screen 720p on my laptop. And its cross platform (mac and pc).

I don't know if I would use it as an archival format, but it looks good for playback and works.

Julian I think I told you earlier to try out HuffYUV, I had crashes on XP with version 2.2, but 2.11 works for me. I use it for my archival format.

Last week, I used it for a client that wanted to have the HD video loop at their booth at a convention from a laptop to a HDTV, I think via dvi. I gave them a DVD and divx. I think the divx file looked a lot better at full screen. And the divx player didn't have any garbage associated with it, just alt+enter and full screen looping. And the player had the right adjustments for 16x9.

tup

I`ve kind of given up for now. I just archive all my raw footage to DVD (dual layer if need be) and export my created content to my preferred format for the project and will worry about creating and exporting a working format later on.