Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.

The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting.

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!

Glad that worked out for you Scott. Maybe you could post a clip? I've got a wedding this Friday, outdoors, at night as well..

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!
That's been my experience, too. I use the HD-100, so no 60fps mode... I figure if the camera is resolving 30 fps progressively, shooting with a 1/30 shutter shouldn't matter. Of course, if you're in DV-I mode, I would imagine it would make a difference, since that's 60i.

Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.

The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting.

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!

I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo

I figure if the camera is resolving 30 fps progressively, shooting with a 1/30 shutter shouldn't matter.

Don't forget, the HD100 is a 60p camera (via component analog output) which would explain the 1/60th stock preset.

Shooting 30P with 1/30 shutter can buy you some low light sensitivity. But motion blur can become a problem with the slower shutter speed. This will be most obvious on the long end of the lens where subject movement is magnified. Ironically, close up work is where you need the extra sensitivity to compensate for the light loss due to zooming in.

-gb-

I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo
This footage looks great, do you remember your lens and camera settings?
I don't see any issues with motion blur.
Thanks,
Jon

This footage looks great, do you remember your lens and camera settings?
I don't see any issues with motion blur.
Thanks,
Jon

The camera just arrived a week before this wedding.. That time I didn't know any trick of this camera, so everything was factory setup for HD30 recording. The lens was a stock 16x. The church was a bit dark, so we decide to try the 30 shutter speed. We can risk with this, because we recorded the wedding with two Sony DSR-300a so this camera was there only for try it in real wedding, in real different situations. The footages was so nice, the couple ask me to edit for them as a single camera footage for extra money. I didn't charged them for that DVD.

About the motion blur, I never see one, but much more experienced filmmakers said on this Forum we must use 60 shutter speed, but honestly I don't get it. I'm sure they right, but nobody ever really explained the reason, and show me the difference in reality.

Laszlo

I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.

I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.

Well few "big name" on this Forum.

I hope they say something again about this on going question

Laszlo

I think the confusion is that you really only NEED to shoot at at least 1/60th if you intend to overcrank, but even that is debatable depending your aesthetic. Otherwise I don't think anyone would go on record as calling it a necessity.

Best.

I think the opinions about 1/30 or 1/24 shutter have come from the purists who suggest that those shutter speeds are impossible on film cameras.
In that arguement 1/48 or 1/60 sec or 180 degree shutter speeds can be duplicated and anything longer would be a digital camera effect.

Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful. After all, most of us are using CRT's, plasmas and LCD's in NTSC to screen our final product. The same may not be true when projecting the material at 24 fps.

So, I say, give it a go and let your eyes be the judge.

Dave B

There's a phenomenon in physics known as the nyquist frequency. The nyquist frequency is, as applied to a moving shutter camera, a shutter speed twice the frame rate. The reason for wanting to maintain a shutter speed no less than the nyquist frequency is because you begin to suffer motion artifacts at less than the nyquist. If you're not shooting things that move, especially rotating wheels, you shouldn't have a problem.

In practical usage, I'm sure you've seen scenes of wagon wheels, or something like that, that appear to rotate backwards. This is the effect of nyquist, where the camera catches still images of a rotating object and when the stills are reconstructed on a motion display, the wheel appears to turn backwards.

Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful.
Dave B

I'd be interested in elaborating on this subjective assessment. So 1/30th is softer than 1/60th, what other adjectives/descriptive terms can you use? Does it look "Better"?

Others?

I have produced several pieces shot in 1/24th and 1/30th due to low light conditions and I won't do it again (unless there are intended undercranking or style reasons).

Any shot with motion will inherently be "softer" because of the extra motion blur. But, if you ask me, it's softer in a bad way that risks making a shot look out of focus and I've noticed it bringing out the HDV compression with this camera a few times. The effect is especially amplified in pans, run & gun situations and any subject with fast motion. Often times in uncontrollably low-light situations the extra exposure to your shot is worth the tradeoff of adding motion blur. But personally for me, I will avoid 1/24 and 1/30 all together.

With that said, it really comes down to what you think looks acceptable, use your own judgment I say. No one will tell you that you can't shoot in 1/30 or 1/24 because this industry by nature is a subjective one.

I love wagon wheels going backward, way too cool.
I also like the look of the jvc with detail turned off.
It's what I like, no right or wrong.
Jon

Glad that worked out for you Scott. Maybe you could post a clip? I've got a wedding this Friday, outdoors, at night as well..

I just got done editing this wedding a few days ago and have since posted a few excerpts on my website.

Here are a few direct links to the samples.

Note: The first sample was shot in the daylight at 1/60th which I prefer for it's sharper look. The last 3 clips are 1/30th.

The entire wedding was shot in pitch black with no ambient lighting except my IDX X-3 LED light. The recording was originally shot 720/30p with motion smoothing on, 1/30 shutter & 9db gain. The samples are H264 encoded at 428x240 but will still give you an idea of how 1/30th looks at night.

You need Quicktime 7.0 to view these clips.

Please don't crucify my samples!

NOTE!: YOU NEED TO "RIGHT-CLICK" & SAVE TARGET AS, TO YOUR HARD DISK TO VIEW FILES!

Wedding Intro 1/60th
http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight-WashingtonWeddingIntro489.mov

Ceremony/Photos 1/30th
http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight-WashingtonWeddingCeremonyPhotos964.mov

First Dance 1/30th
http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight-WashingtonWeddingFirstDance485.mov

Cake Cutting 1/30th
http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight-WashingtonWeddingCakeCutting260.mov

Scott, Bleach Bypass is the "incorrect" way of developing a negative, it's skipping a step that is supposed to be performed, still, it's one very popular look. Rules are made to be broken, as long as yo know what you're doing. If 1/30 achieves the look that you want, so much better :)

There's a phenomenon in physics known as the nyquist frequency. The nyquist frequency is, as applied to a moving shutter camera, a shutter speed twice the frame rate. The reason for wanting to maintain a shutter speed no less than the nyquist frequency is because you begin to suffer motion artifacts at less than the nyquist. If you're not shooting things that move, especially rotating wheels, you shouldn't have a problem.

In practical usage, I'm sure you've seen scenes of wagon wheels, or something like that, that appear to rotate backwards. This is the effect of nyquist, where the camera catches still images of a rotating object and when the stills are reconstructed on a motion display, the wheel appears to turn backwards.

Bill, I could be mistaken, but I thought Nyquist frequency was an issue with digital sampling when the frequency of the material (audio or visual), exceeds the sampling frequency.

The backwards rotating wagon wheel I always believed to be the stroboscopic effect of seeing 24p telecined and displayed on a 60i device.

-gb-

I just shot both aerials and daylight outside shots for a new gated community in Naples. I used a combo of 1/30 and 1/60. I come from a video camera background and not cinema so I have a different perspective. This year it's about 23 year years since first working with saticon tube cams.

The thing I discovered when choosing shutter is that at 1/30, motion will blur if the moves are more than a really slow slow pan. Simple to remember, but not obvious in the field on the field monitor at 60p. It's not that it looks ruined when this happens but it's a strange look when you stop the move and it resolves into perfect focus. Yet these shots of very high end homes shot on a Triangle jib look really good. I add a Polarizer, ND and built in ND to get about 5.6 or f8 outside.

Of course with the Aerials I shoot 1/60.

I think the 1/30 shots are a step further removed from the video look than 1/60 is. The texture of the JVC shots and the grain give them a psuedo film effect. If there is very slow move, the slight blurring almost smooths out the shot removing all traces of steppiness you may notice in the progressive playback.

It's a setting you have to experiment with and learn when to use it. Outside you will need an extra ND filter to avoid the dreaded diffraction effect of the lens when it's almost closed down.

IMHO

This year it's about 23 year years since first working with saticon tube cams.

Check out this picture :-)

http://jaschob.com/img/jvc.jpg

Check out this picture :-)

http://jaschob.com/img/jvc.jpg

What is that white thing on the body of the other camera? Is that where the VHS tape goes?

I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo

Many thanks for sharing your experience, technique and online clip! Tonight we shoot in a small 160 yr old chapel, with soft ambient lighting with HD100. Now I know I can shoot HD using your settings.

Sam

What is that white thing on the body of the other camera? Is that where the VHS tape goes?

I have no idea what is inside that white box. But this camera uses a remote vcr via a long cable.

PS shot a fashion show (runway) at 1/30 shutter. The footage looks great, again, more filmy than videoy, 1/30 shutter, detail on min. Plenty of room to get the lens at it's sweet spot and that makes all the difference.