I was thinking about switching NLEs to work with a program that has native support for 24p. I'm curious how difficult is Vegas 4.0 to work with. I'm currently well versed in Premiere as there are countless books, etc at my disposal if need be. I checked Borders and Barnes&Noble but they don't have any sort of training literature for Vegas. Is the learning curve for Vegas larger or smaller to that of Premiere? Anyone work with both- how similar are they? Would someone with working knowlege of Premiere be able to pick up and find there way in Vegas? Thanks in advance.

Glen- There aren't any simularities that I noticed between Vegas and Premiere. I guess that is one of the reasons they like Vegas. I prefer Premiere. I have used Vegas, and found it... different. Not very easy for me to use, but that may be just me. I suggest you download a trial a play with it, before you buy it.

Check out the Vegas 4 - Class On Demand DVDs (http://classondemand.365media.com/tradesmart/classondemand/tsControl.asp?pge=6&prodid=612)

You can ask the instructor questions here. (http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugpost.fcgi?forum=sonic-foundry_vegas&post=030430051509.htm)

Yeah, there really aren't any similarities, except the obvious, they both are for editing video. :D

I used to use Premiere, but I tried Vegas 3.0 a while ago, and I loved it, and I now use nothing but Vegas 4.0....its great.

Wow so the workflow is completly different? I'll have to download the demo this weekend and give it a whirl.

Mike, thanks for the heads-up on Class on Demand...I'll have to give them serious consideration, as I love CD/DVD based training. I've had good success with Lynda.com training in the past. Thanks.

Also look at the training videos at http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com

Well I installed the demo this weekend and gave it a quick run. Granted I only had the default footage from Windows Movie Maker to play with, as I was away and only had my laptop to play on.
Anyway, needless to say I was pretty lost. I was able to add footage to the time line and add a few minor video effects but still haven't figured out how transitions work. Does Vegas have an option similar to Premiere with A/B editing- where there is a track dedicated for transitions, allowing you to simply overlap clips above and below the transition track? I only fiddled with it for 10 minutes or so and just sorta clicked around to get aquainted with the overall interface. I'm sure in order to actually "USE" the interface I could do some reading. If it's good enough I'll ditch the Pinnacle DV500 card altogether and go with an entire Vegas+DVD workflow.

Well, I know what you mean, the first time I tried it, it was much different then what I was used to, but once you get used to all the commands and how it works, it's great. I didn't do any reading, and I feel I am pretty good with it, there are some things I need to still read about though.

About the transitions, what transitions are you talking about? Find the button that enables the "automatic crossfades" and when thats enabled, when you overlap 2 peice of video, it automatically crossfades them. If you want to fade out and in a peice of video, then move your cursor to the beginning/end of the clip, and then a half circle looking mouse cursor will appear, then drag that left or right, depending on if its at the end or beginning of the clip. Them 2 types of transitions (crossfades, fades) plus just hard cuts, are really the only kinds of transitions you need to use, the rest of them cheesy ones are unprofessional, but if you do want to use them, just drag and drop it from the transition window in Vegas, to the video clip, and then overlap it with another videoclip...

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Anyway, needless to say I was pretty lost. I was able to add footage to the time line and add a few minor video effects but still haven't figured out how transitions work. Does Vegas have an option similar to Premiere with A/B editing- where there is a track dedicated for transitions, allowing you to simply overlap clips above and below the transition track? I only fiddled with it for 10 minutes or so and just sorta clicked around to get aquainted with the overall interface. I'm sure in order to actually "USE" the interface I could do some reading. If it's good enough I'll ditch the Pinnacle DV500 card altogether and go with an entire Vegas+DVD workflow. -->>>


Quick Tips:

Use "S" to "SPLIT" the video at the cursor location (no razor needed)

Overlap clips to create an AUTOMATIC crossfade. You can then drop ANY of the available transitions onto the overlap.

An A/B view IS available, Just maximize the track size and click the lowest button on the leftmost side of the track header. (But you'll never use it once you get used to the Vegas workflow)

Yeah, whats the purpose of that A/B thing even being there in Vegas? I accidently hit that one day, and I was like "what the heck is this?!?!"....heh

Yeah, the S button on your keyboard will be the most used. :D

I'm just trying to use it enough to take the step and dump the $500 for Vegas+ DVD. I'd hate to spend the money and regret changing from Premiere in the future. So I'll have to work at learning the program to see if I like it's workflow, and actually get into some hard-core editing with it. It's only then will I see it's advantages/limitations. Is there anyone who's used both and knows what advantages/limitations Premiere and Vegas have in conjuntion with each other? Will I be able to completly ditch Premiere or should I keep it on the system for certian tasks that Vegas "can't" do....if there are any....???

It's the enthusiasm of you guys on here which has led me to even consider the proposition of changing NLE's! It also seems like a good deal of people that use Vegas had switched from Premiere ironicly enough!!!

Glen, you may also want to look at my newsletters at http://www.jetdv.com/tts. They, hopefully, cover everything from the very basic to the complex. Recently started a new column called "Beginner's Corner".

I keep Premiere, mainly because I like the way it feels. The workflow works for me. I still use other programs for things like color correction, audio tools, whatever. I use them to fix stuff, but I don't like to edit with them. Backwords? Maybe, but I does what I does, and it works.

Premier seems to me to be just a simple video editor. Vegas seems more akin to Final Cut Pro where you can do just a ton of stuff with a ton of effects plugins. I have a video from a musical that I'm editing - 3 cameras, 2 nights, 8 audio tracks total. I could never do it with Premier - Premier's workspace to me just doesn't seem suited to doing that complex of a project.

I'm obviously in the minority but I found the switch from Premiere to Vegas to not be too painful.

The Vegas interface is different but not so different. I did have to find out how to move around but overall I ofund that I could edit fairly quickly on Vegas once a learned a few bits and pieces. I am still on the steep end of the learning curve, but I am editing and having more fun with Vegas than I used to have with Premiere.

How's the program stability of Vegas compared to Premiere. Premiere's instability and tendancy to crash is one of the reasons I'm actually considering the swtich. Once I built a new machine using XP (used to use 98se) it seemed much more stable but still no where as solid as some of Adobe's other offerings, namely Photoshop.

Also if I'm going to be using a Vegas/AfterEffects combo and edit in 24p how can I move the footage between the both? I know Vegas can remove the pull-down and work in native 24p but how does that corelate to swapping back and forth with AfterEffects?

I can't comment on AE & 24p, but regarding stability, Vegas is amazing. It doesn't crash.

I switched from Premiere because of stability. I never knew when Premiere would crash, over several different versions and a couple of computers, it was never quite stable. Sometime it would be stable for days and sometimes it would crash every 20 minutes. Maddening.

So far I have been unable to make Vegas crash.

I use Vegas4 and AE5.5 -- they are great together. The "interoperability" of Premiere and AE is way over sold. Glen you may also find that Vegas is even more stable than AE (as amazing as that sounds). I switched from Premiere and after a short time was very impressed with Vegas.

If you're editing in Vegas at 24p, you'll just go directly into AE the same way, making sure NOT to separate fields in the footage interpretation menu. (I'm assuming you're arriving at 24p in Vegas). In many ways AE is better with 24p than with 29.97i.

There are far better experts on this board regarding Vegas, etc. though.

Well that pretty much makes up my mind. I printed the first 100 pages of the 4.0 manual today and have been reading up. I'll probably make the switch after we finish editing the next wedding scheduled for the 21st.
Hey- anyone wanna buy a Pinnacle DV500 w/ Premiere 6? ;)

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Spilman : I can't comment on AE & 24p, but regarding stability, Vegas is amazing. It doesn't crash.

I switched from Premiere because of stability. I never knew when Premiere would crash, over several different versions and a couple of computers, it was never quite stable. Sometime it would be stable for days and sometimes it would crash every 20 minutes. Maddening.

So far I have been unable to make Vegas crash. -->>>

Vegas 4.0 is very stable. Is very user friendly. Is very productive. And the final product always seems to look and sound great to my eyes and ears! In a nut-shell, I love Vegas 4.0.

However, I do know how to make it crash! It happens when I have the ASIO driver enabled for my sound card and make fast "play . . . stop. . . play. . . stop" during the editing process. After the third, "stop or play". Nothing happens. And an error messages pops up (don't remember it right now). In order to "make things right" again, I have to go into the audio device configure box and reset the software to my sound card.

Now the problem may not be entirely Vegas'es fault. I use MOTU's 2408 mkII as my sound card. This otherwise great sounding device does have its demons. (MOTU has its demons!!!)

The solution? Use the WDM drivers. THEN, I've had no crashes! :)

Ted