With the recent price drop on DVX100, there has been some debate about what are the actual differences between these cams?

Panasonic is really marketing rugged construction, but if my memory is correct, the DVX100 has the same magnesium body and tape transport the DVC80 does.

The DVC80 appears to be just painted black, no silver like the DVX100, but no firm confirmation.

My belief is that the DVX100 lacks nothing that the DVC80 has. The DVX100 just adds the progressive modes and cine-gamma. Anyone have better information?

As far as I know, you're correct on all points. As someone who has no need for 24p, the DVC80 looks *very* attractive to me. Think of the 80 as a DVX100 minus the 24p and 30p modes. Other than that... no difference. Both are excellent camcorders.

Chris:

You're a old XL-1 frame mode guy. I can understand 24p, but what about 30p (the DVX100's most neglected feature)?

its so funny the rumours going around to what the camera actually is, I think only one person on this forum has actually seen one., the bodies are both magnesium .... blah blah.... the DV transport is remarkably different... bla blah blah....

they are two completly different cameras that look the same and use the bulk of the same exterior hardware. ...

I suggest anyone actually considering buying this camera contact Panasonic Broadcast Directly to let them explain to you what the differences are.... for example the DVC80 has no Cinne-gamma mode....

why? because its not for filmakers.

Not so different, same audio circuitry, same lense, mostly same electronics.

Stephen,

As you know I've always liked XL1 30p Frame Movie mode, but for the market the DVC80 is targeted for, I don't think it's a big deal. I can live without it.

Yang,

You're quite correct, same audio circuitry, same lens, mostly same electronics, pretty much *the same camera.* Jan Crittenden of Panasonic Broadcast Systems has described it to me as a simply DVX100 minus progressive scan.

Jarred Land:

Outside the progressive scan modes, the DVX100 and DVC80 have far more things in common (including body construction) than they do any real differences. Filmmaking is a very small slice of videography. The DVC80 is a smart move by Panasonic as it's less expensive and without certain DVX100 features which a lot of videographers just don't need.

I have seen the DVC80 before and I'll be around it all week here at InfoComm. This is not a rumor board; when it comes to hardware we only discuss facts here. Contact Panasonic if you want, but here are the datasheets. If you like, I'll have PBS come in here and post about it. Hope this helps.

Panasonic's DVX100 page: http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/cams_ccorders/f_ag-dvx100.html

Panasonic's DVC80 page: http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/cams_ccorders/f_ag-dvc80.html

I didn't want to say this for certain (and still don't want to be quoted), but I believe the DVX-100 does NOT have the Magnesium Alloy body. It is in fact some type of high impact plastic. I did have my hands on one on at a trade show and it did not strike me as being anything but plastic.

However, as someone here has already mentioned, Panasonic Broadcast would be the authority on this.

I did call them before buying the DVC-80, but only to insure that the new model was indeed metal. If you notice the 2 PDFs they have on the web for each specific model, they make a big deal about it on the DVC-80. However, there is no mention of any materials on the DVX-100 brochure.

As someone else pointed out, the listed weight on the brochures is exactly the same. This could mean that the 24P removal might only be software or a piece of silicon. Or, they may have just used the same weight as the previous brochure.

BTW, thanks for the new thread. 8-)

Also, someone mentioned a recent price drop, but I didn't see that at any of the places I would buy it from.

Anyone want to make some phone calls......

Carl

They tend to be meticulous with their datasheets. Identical weight between the two models would be the first indicator that they're both using the same chassis and other physical components.

DV Info Net sponsors who are authorized Panasonic dealers carrying the DVX100 and DVC80 are Pro-Tape and Zotz Digital.

Hope this helps,

the dvx100 and the dvc 80 is all metal.. you can tell as soon as you hold it in your hands. Pany realized this was a concern for broadcast users that's why they made this camera being metal a big deal about it in the DVC-80 brocure.


as for the weight... Magnesium Alloy has the same mass as polymer... so you couldn't tell anyways :)

Thanks for the links Chris. Fascinating the way they target their marketing for those two cameras. The DVX-80 brochure is 6 pages, the DVX-100 is 12. Do they use the extra 6 pages to describe all the additional features of the 100? Nope, they show "sexy" photos of it; with backgrounds at a rock concert, at a Euro-looking train station, a night-time city skyline, a couple close-ups in somebody's hand.

The DVC-80 brochure is more austere and shows the camera on a slab out in the desert with a paragraph about the magnesium chassis and professional tape mechanism. Maybe it really is the same, but they don't mention this in the brochure for the 100.

Slick marketing stuff. Makes me want to go buy one of each, they both look like nice cameras in their own right. The DVC-80 does look a little odd with the additional mike grafted onto the handle though.

And in the end, you've really got to hand it to Sony. Everybody still wants to copy the look of the PD-150, including the JVC HD camera.

Re: body construction: Again, for a definitive answer, I'll stop by PBS tomorrow and ask Steve Golub or some other folks I know there.

These days it's highly uncommon for a higher-end prosumer 3-chip like the DVX100 *not* to have an MA chassis. It would not surprise me however if they tell me the 80 is sturdier because it is after all marketed for rougher field use instead of the filmmaker crowd.

Regarding the $500 price difference between the 100 and 80, for the difference in cost, you could buy the 80 and a fairly good tripod, or at least get most of the way into a decent tripod, for the same money as the 100. If you want progressive scan and Cine gamma, the 100 is the way to go. If not, the 80 is all you need.

Boyd, I agree, the marketing strategy is a very interesting topic all by itself, they really make you want one of everything!

The day I bought it, there was a $550 price difference between the 2. I have noticed that some of the merchants (that I wouldn't buy from) are advertising for $3000 now, but the mainstays seem to still have it at about $3300. (which is still $550)

As you mentioned, that enough to pay for a Bogen setup, EW-100, or ME66 rig.

I emailed Stuart English at Panasonic to hopefully have him post the straight dope.

Talked face to face with Stuart English today, he clarified what I already knew, hopefully this will clear up any confusion:

There is NO DIFFERENCE in body construction between the 100 and the 80. They share the exact same mag alloy chassis. Also, there is NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever in the tape transport mechanism between the two models.

He said he'd try to post here about this when it's convenient for him. Hope this helps,

thanks for the update Chris.. its funny I get two different answers from Panasonic Canada and Panasonic USA.... hopefully your buddy can come here and post.

if there is no difference in DV transport I guess even the DVC-80 brochure is full of crap, and they should change it.

This sort of stuff usually happens when a camera first comes out and only a few people have it, look what is happening to the JVC HD camera.


Hope you are having fun at infocomm!

Jared:

Stuart English is the VP at Panasonic Broadcast - so I'm pretty sure his word on this is final.

thank steve... Good to actually hear from the boss :)

Chris asked me to posta short note on the main differences between the AG-DVC80 and AG-DVX100 cameras.

First what's the same (identical)
Chassis (Mag Alloy)
XLR and audio circuits
Microphone(s)
Lens (Leica)
Tape transport
LCD and Viewfinder
IEEE 1394 for NLE / dub
CCD pixel count

What's different
CCD output mode (interlace only - no 24P or 30P)
DSP functionality ( more limited operational range)
IEEE 1394 parallel back up to external VTR (none)
Time-Lapse (none)

There are other differences, but basicly the DVX100 is
a "production" camera, and the DVC80 a "news" camera.
Of course in this category of product there is a lot of cross
over between applications a camera may be designed for
and what it is used for, but these are the main points.

Even if you only ever shoot 480 line interlace, the DVX100
may still be the camera for you to buy for the DSP advantages
and additional timelapse and IEEE 1394 feature set.

The web site at www.panasonic.com/broadcast will have
complete spec sheets.

A final note. The DVC80 brochure makes more of the Mag
Alloy chassis, because it was written later. i.e the rumor
of "plastic" needed rebutting, so the MA chassis was
emphasized. But it is identical in both products.


Hope that this helps,

Stuart English
V.P Marketing
Panasonic Broadcast

That does help - thanks so much for taking the time to give us the official details.

ok stuart, while you are at it can you clarify this caption in the DVC-80 brochure? You might want to correct the brochure before some people get even more confused, and lawyers happy :)

....
Developed specifically for the AG-DVC80, the DV mechanism itself is far more advanced and reliable than those used in home DV cameras and recorders. Its sturdy loading system allows quick tape changes. And to minimize dropout and head.....

Could you elaborate on the DSP differences that you mention.

Thanks

Carl

Cinne-Gamma is a DSP :)

Jared:

Just consider the DVC-80 and DVX100 as the same camera with different electronics. The single body was developed at the same time for both variations. You'll find a nearly identical phrase in the DVX100 brochure.

lol I am totally on track with you Steve, I just heard different things from different people at Panasonic, and then the Specifications on print material, lol

Stuart was right on the money showing the differences as I mentioned earlier though, everyone a tPanasonic told me that the DVX100 is a "production" camera, and the DVC80 a "news" camera, and that they boasted about it in the flyer for the dvc80 because of the pastic rumours.

Carl:

The DSP differences are mostly related to progressive scan. Those are removed from the DVC-80. The only was to get a comprehensive list would be to download both cams manuals and compare menu functions.