I posted something similar over on the HD/HDV acquisition board... My client needs to show an HD project I'm producing for them at an upcoming tradeshow. They want the 8 minute video to automatically loop at full 1080 resolution. Is the best way to do this with a powerful laptop, an external fast 7200 rpm drive, and Cineform Prospect (or Aspect) HD? If so, what software would I use for looping playback - CF's player or an NLE?

I already capture with Prospect HD and edit in full 1080 resolution. I'm concerned that burning to Blu-ray will have compatibility issues with available players (well-documented problems with BD-R playback on existing units), not to mention the fear that a consumer level Blu-ray player will not hold up to 8 hours a day of looping playback.

Stuart

CineForm will work great this, even using our free decoder (download NEO Player for your fast laptop.) The playback tool to use is Media Player Classic, which will play fullscreen and loop forever.

NEO http://www.cineform.com/products/Downloads/DownloadNEOPlayerStart.htm
MPC http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Media_Player_Classic.htm

I do something like this everyday with CF files.
You just need to know the specs of said laptop for decoding.
I pass files to an external USB Maxtor mini one touch that are not an issue for a Dell M65 all the time. At HIGH.
You encode at 4.4.4.(4) FS2 and expect playback on a lappy …it better be beeeeeefy.

That's encouraging. It sounds like a powerful laptop will work. BTW, I'm encoding 4:2:2, not 4:4:4.

How about getting it to a large screen 1080 display? I would assume I'll need some sort of HDMI out (or at least component). Maybe a small "cube" PC with an Intensity card for the HDMI???

I was assuming 4:2:2 not 4:4:4. Some laptop come with HDMI out now, so you could use a DVI to HDMI convertor. The Intensity card could be used, however I don't know the playback tools to try.

My only concern with the laptop and the Intensity is the results of Cineform's earlier tests using a laptop, the Magma PCI-E adapter, and the Intensity for 1080i. I know there are some small form factor PCs now that probably can offer some pretty high performance. I guess I'd better take a look...

Thanks.

Stuart

Just buy a laptop with an nvidia card and a secondary monitor port. Set the video card to play on the primary laptop screen and let the secondary display play only full screen video overlay. I'm doing this with a desktop right now for some HD loop footage, it works great. Make sure the graphics accelerator is at least 7600 Go or better and the more the ram the better as well. Should be able to get VGA, or DVI out.

Chris

I'd get a Sony PS3 and a LCD or Plasma screen the size required for your display...

The PS3 has blu ray support, DVD support, HDMI outputs, a built in Hard drive for HD footage or USB ports for external outputs.

Its cheap for the amount of hardware you get, its portable enough and its output is great.

It will loop your footage for days....

The PS3 sounds like an interesting option. What format would you put the finished video in on the hard drive and how would you get it to loop continuously? I wonder if a Cineform HD file would work? Is the unit capable of playing full 1080 from the HD? I assume it is considering Sony hypes it as a solution for HD entertainment.

Regarding the laptop option, how powerful a system would you need to playback 1080i footage without stutters or "hiccups"?

Thanks for everyone's ideas.

Stuart

It would be far cheaper to build a Shuttle as a portable CineForm player. I would recommend the SG33G5 model with an E6750 CPU. You'll be paying peanuts for a 5kg system with an inbuilt HDMI output, and the ability to play back just about any CineForm file with no fuss whatsoever. It even has eSATA ports.

With PS3 you'd need to put your footage onto Blu-ray disc or encode as a high-bitrate h.264 MP4. Amazingly I've run 20mbps h.264 files on PS3 direct from DVD-R. But no, it won't run CineForm AVIs natively.

The shuttle isn't a bad option but you can't build one with the same options
as the PS3 for the same price...

I use DVDit HDPRO to build a blu ray disk... and choose loop as the option...

The format is just a standard mpg output from a Cineform AVI... all you do
is drop the AVI into the project...

Or if you don't want the DVDit software the Premiere will output the correct file format for you also...

It all depends on whether you want to run native CineForm AVIs or not, basically. But certainly my material looks pretty awful exported to MPEG2 - nowhere near as clean as the CineForm original, and if the object of the exercise is to showcase your HD material at maximum quality, a PC of some description is the requirement.

As much as I like cineform, our installed base of corporate labtops is lacking in playing CF files. I've used workstations and rentals. However, I also play straight m2t (the hvd files) on an avel2 linkplayer (the JVC unit). It also plays windows media HD. My last three trade shows I used 720p windows media HD via Dell inspirons on 720p HD monitors.

When we upgrade to dual-core laptops (should be soon), I'll definetely put CF media to the test and avoid one more post encode.

(Funny, with the Blue-ray disk and HD-DVD wars, I've never considered using either).

This doesn't relate to playing CFHD files per se, but anyone reading this thread who would be satisfied with playing high-bitrate mpg or m2t files should consider DViCO's Tivx M-4000PA. At $250-ish it's way cheaper than a PS3; it's much smaller and has better playback quality than the Linkplayer2 that I had previously; and it's hard-drive based rather than optical disk based, which for a trade show might be convenient.

Incidentally, CFHD exported back to HDV-spec m2t files shouldn't look "awful" - after all that's the same spec the raw footage was recorded in and the cineform files don't somehow magically create extra quality.

...and the cineform files don't somehow magically create extra quality.

Graham, don't burst the illusion - after all, it is "magic".... :-)

Incidentally, CFHD exported back to HDV-spec m2t files shouldn't look "awful" - after all that's the same spec the raw footage was recorded in and the cineform files don't somehow magically create extra quality.

HDV sourced material won't look worse, I grant you. But material from higher-end less compressed sources definitely will. CineForm is far more than an HDV intermediate codec these days.

Fair enough - "HDV" caught my eye in the original post but on re-reading it I see he may be using better sources.

I do motion graphic work for Tradeshows all the time. Most of my content is digitally created, meaning it is hi res HD non compressed or CF compressed all the way to the export stage. I then export an HD mpg (usually 720P) and play it from the LinkTheatre from buffalo off of a thumbdrive. I would be very hard pressed to tell the difference in the final viewing from the mpg or the cineform file.

Mpg can look quite good at hi bit rates. I don't recommend editing in it, but as a delivery medium it can be very robust. No macroblocks or noise or anything. It really looks drop dead, Discovery HD WOW clean. IMHO.

Is cineform superior? No doubt. But delivering an mpg is far more compatible with a number of systems, especially when I am not "at" the show to make sure it is all setup the way they "said" it would be.

Peace!

...Is cineform superior? No doubt. But delivering an mpg is far more compatible with a number of systems, especially when I am not "at" the show to make sure it is all setup the way they "said" it would be.

Peace!


I echo the same sentiments. You have no idea how many calls I get about laptop issues and playback on external monitors. The avel linkplayer is not foreign to most folks as it looks, hooksup, and behaves much like a DVD deck.

Cineform ensures that my edits are clean up to the final render, even if it's back to mpeg transport for playback. The advantage of smaller sized files to fit on the optical disk, and just as clean as the captured material.