Hey Guys,

Sony Australia are running their EX road show here in Melbourne on Tuesday. If anyone has any specific questions about the camera that they'd like answered, post them below and I'll put them to Sony's techs on Tuesday.

Hey Guys,

Sony Australia are running their EX road show here in Melbourne on Tuesday. If anyone has any specific questions about the camera that they'd like answered, post them below and I'll put them to Sony's techs on Tuesday.

Will the camera support a flip system for use with 35mm adapters ?

What are the transfer rates from SxS to XDCAM ?

Will it be now possible to preserve the 1920x1080 format to XDCAM Disc instead of 1440 ?

Thanks.

Thanks Mark.

I have an active thread here about dynamic range.

Could you ask the reps about how many stops of dynamic range the EX has?

And how it compares to the 1/2" chip DV models?

Thanks

Mark,

I'd appreciate it very much if you check whether the Progressive Segmented Frame modes (25PsF, 30PsF) are available through i.LINK (at 25Mbps CBR).

Also, what kind of proprietary adapter is required to use the lens remote controller?

Thanks!

Mark,

Could you check on the HD-SDI output and whether that output is live only and/or will output recorded footage from the SxS cards at both bitrates.

Cheers. Thanks.

The HD-SDi will playback and output material recorded on the cards.

Currently there is no way to preserve 1920x1440 when archiving onto XDCAM ProDisc's as the XDCAM HD format does not yet support 1920x1080. This will probably (hopefully) change when the F700 and XDCAM HD Phase 3 becomes available later next year.

Transfer to an XDCAM deck or drive runs at about 75Mb/sec so for 35Mb VBR its a between 2 and 3 times real time depending on the content.

Support for adapters such as the mini35 will depend on someone making a suitable adapter, this is un-likely to be Sony IMHO. I expect it will come but your going to need a really good adapter to not loose resolution by the bucket load.

Another HD-SDI question.
Can I record to card and output SD out of SDI (downconvert) simultaneously and with matching timecode?

This would allow me to do a high quality SD edit "quickly" and "auto assemble" an HD version when needed at some future point.

Basically I'm looking at SD workflows that avoid having to render a downconvert in software . . . unless of course I can develop a workflow in which coming from the cards plus downconvert render time (and quality) can be as fast or faster than coming from the SDI port.

The HD-SDi will playback and output material recorded on the cards.

Currently there is no way to preserve 1920x1440 when archiving onto XDCAM ProDisc's as the XDCAM HD format does not yet support 1920x1080. This will probably (hopefully) change when the F700 and XDCAM HD Phase 3 becomes available later next year.

Transfer to an XDCAM deck or drive runs at about 75Mb/sec so for 35Mb VBR its a between 2 and 3 times real time depending on the content.

Support for adapters such as the mini35 will depend on someone making a suitable adapter, this is un-likely to be Sony IMHO. I expect it will come but your going to need a really good adapter to not loose resolution by the bucket load.

Thanks for the clarification.

Mark,

Can you please ask about the remote lens control. Will it accept a standard fujinon controller, or better still can we adapt in any way previous Lanc controllers? I have a Manfrotto 523P that I like a lot, and would love to use it.

Thanks in advance.

Graeme

The HD-SDi will playback and output material recorded on the cards.

Currently there is no way to preserve 1920x1440 when archiving onto XDCAM ProDisc's as the XDCAM HD format does not yet support 1920x1080. This will probably (hopefully) change when the F700 and XDCAM HD Phase 3 becomes available later next year.

Transfer to an XDCAM deck or drive runs at about 75Mb/sec so for 35Mb VBR its a between 2 and 3 times real time depending on the content.

Support for adapters such as the mini35 will depend on someone making a suitable adapter, this is un-likely to be Sony IMHO. I expect it will come but your going to need a really good adapter to not loose resolution by the bucket load.

Actually, if you use your XDcam disc as data storage archive (of the original mp4 files from the card) (ie copy across to BD much like a removable HDD) then they should remain intact.
If however your conforming to XDCam, then the above quote is relevant

Find out if the live HD-SDI output is a real 10bits and not 8 bits stuffed into a 10bit SDI stream.

Peter, you can only write 500Mb of non-XDCAM HD mxf data to the prodisk system and that has to go in a special "general" folder. It will not let you write whatever you want to the disks to preserve the integrity of the file system. A pain perhaps but it makes it just about impossible to produce corrupt or unusable disks.

Hi Mark,

Thank You for Kind initiative!
Hope I'm not late.

Please ask Sony for more precise workflow setup.
What requirements are for mobile workstations ( PC laptop clock speed, current MacBookPro or MacBook, Vista and Leopard compatibility), RAM size, Hard disk speed requirements? Can I copy HQ footage directly to FCS5or6 timeline without capturing or rendering? Is it reasonable on Mac to convert to ProRes format?
What are the best software options on PC?
How performs against green or blue ( or other color) screen?
How flexible is footage for coloring in native format?

Thank You much if even one of questions will get an answer!

Sulev

1. Will there be a firmware upgrade in the future so that one can store 1920x1080 at 35 mbs from the iLink/firewire port on for example a new FIRESTORE model?

2. Why no HDMI out?

3. Can I use the bundled XDCAM Transfer tool on a PPC Mac, or is it only for Intel Macs?

Mark,

If it's still no too late, please ask whether the EX1 can record to DR60 (in SP mode, of course) without any SxS card inserted (or with them both 100% full).

Very important to me, because if it can, I won't be selling my DR60 drive along with the V1, when upgrading to the EX1 - with the 2 x 8GB cards full of HQ stuff, I could continue for another 4+ hours using my DR60 in SP, before the necessity of rushing to my office and off-load!

Two things:

(1) What is the bit depth of the internal processing circuitry?

(2) Will the cameras allow use of less expensive SSD cards or actively block them, even if they have sufficient throughput?

Mark
Here's a running list of all questions asked on this thread.

All, if you have a question, copy this list into your message,
and add it to the bottom of the list.
This will help Mark with the questions.

1. Will the camera support a flip system for use with 35mm adapters ?

2. What are the transfer rates from SxS to XDCAM ?

3. Will it be now possible to preserve the 1920x1080 format to XDCAM Disc instead of 1440 ?

4. How many stops of dynamic range the EX has, and how it compares to the 1/2" chip DV models?

5. Are Progressive Segmented Frame modes (25PsF, 30PsF) available through i.LINK (at 25Mbps CBR)?

6. What kind of proprietary adapter is required to use the lens remote controller?

7. Is the HD-SDI output live only and/or will it output recorded footage from the SxS cards at both bitrates?

8. Can the EX record to card and output SD out of SDI (downconvert) simultaneously and with matching timecode?

9. Will the EX accept a standard fujinon remote lens controller?

10. Will the EX be able to adapt (in any way) previous Lanc controllers such as the Manfrotto 523P?

11. Will the live HD-SDI output offer real 10bits and not 8 bits stuffed into a 10bit SDI stream?

12. What requirements are for mobile workstations ( PC laptop clock speed, current MacBookPro or MacBook,
Vista and Leopard compatibility), RAM size, Hard disk speed requirements?

13. Can you copy HQ footage directly to FCS5or6 timeline without capturing or rendering?

14. What are the best software options on PC?

15. How does it performs against green or blue ( or other color) screen?

16. How flexible is footage for coloring in native format?

17. Will there be a firmware upgrade in the future so that one can store 1920x1080 at 35 mbs from the
iLink/firewire port on for example a new FIRESTORE model?

18. Why no HDMI out?

19. Can we use the bundled XDCAM Transfer tool on a PPC Mac, or is it only for Intel Macs?

20. Can the EX1 record to DR60 (in SP mode, of course) without any SxS card inserted (or with them both 100% full)?

21. What is the bit depth of the internal processing circuitry?

22. Will the cameras allow use of less expensive SSD cards or actively block them, even if they have sufficient throughput?

Peter, you can only write 500Mb of non-XDCAM HD mxf data to the prodisk system and that has to go in a special "general" folder. It will not let you write whatever you want to the disks to preserve the integrity of the file system. A pain perhaps but it makes it just about impossible to produce corrupt or unusable disks.

Interesting, I'll check this out next time i get a chance, but I was specifically referring to using BD/XDCam as storage/archival device, not a disc which is similar to what comes out of an F350. My meaning is to literally copy to HDD and burn back to BD... MP4 formatted (wrapper inc.) not MXF.

Poor Mark :)

The list is a good idea nevertheless; I'd remove some of the questions however - like no. 18...One could as well ask "Why not shoulder-mount?"

What's done is done, guys!

I can answer most of these now is you like..


1. Will the camera support a flip system for use with 35mm adapters ?
((Not at this time))

2. What are the transfer rates from SxS to XDCAM ?
((this is yet to be determined due to individualised system specs, in any case, its best to xfer to HDD then archive to BD. XDCam ProDisc is restricted to 1440x1080. This is being looked at for refinement, but as it stands, the best option for archive is BD with original MP4 wrapper intact))

3. Will it be now possible to preserve the 1920x1080 format to XDCAM Disc instead of 1440 ?
((MP4 as an archive yes, MXF as an editing format, not at this time. This is being looked at, see above))

4. How many stops of dynamic range the EX has, and how it compares to the 1/2" chip DV models?
((It doesnt compare. Its a different beast so comparisons have no place. In essence if you want to check DR ranges, best to consider the F350 spec at full wide. FStop is based on telephoto zoom through, in turn, you lose about half a stop at full tele. In addition, downconverting XDCam to DV res will yield a close to 422 colour space. In 8bit and rendering in 32bit float will literally make DigiBeta and DVCpro50 look a bit like poo. As for 1/2 imagers at lower res, consider that theyre still restricted to the colour space of the codec their recorded to ))

5. Are Progressive Segmented Frame modes (25PsF, 30PsF) available through i.LINK (at 25Mbps CBR)?
((unknown to me ))

6. What kind of proprietary adapter is required to use the lens remote controller?
((This is yet to be announced))

7. Is the HD-SDI output live only and/or will it output recorded footage from the SxS cards at both bitrates?
((BOTH?? HD SDI will output whatever is on the card, irrespective of bitrate. ))

8. Can the EX record to card and output SD out of SDI (downconvert) simultaneously and with matching timecode?
((Unsure about timecode. The capture source however is based on your NLE and SDI cards capture capabilities. Most cards can capture SD from any input source. Why you would want to is another question altogether though))

9. Will the EX accept a standard fujinon remote lens controller?
((No.. not yet in any case))

10. Will the EX be able to adapt (in any way) previous Lanc controllers such as the Manfrotto 523P?
((If someone designs an anapter plug, then yes. As it stands, the lens remote PLUG is proprietary however the control atributes are very common. In turn, i see a myriad of hybrids being released, however there is a reason for it being this way. Just give it time ))

11. Will the live HD-SDI output offer real 10bits and not 8 bits stuffed into a 10bit SDI stream?
((Unsure about this))

12. What requirements are for mobile workstations ( PC laptop clock speed, current MacBookPro or MacBook,
Vista and Leopard compatibility), RAM size, Hard disk speed requirements?
((if your laptop has an inbuilt PCI Card slot, then it should conform, as most newer lappys with this slot are powerful enough to ingest. ))

13. Can you copy HQ footage directly to FCS5or6 timeline without capturing or rendering?
((Sadly this is an NLE question. Best to discuss with your NLE manufcturer. However, FCP has always required you to do SOMETHING to most of your material to get the best performance from the NLE. The "de-wrapper' application will come with the camera. As it stands MP4 on the timeline itself is not possible from what ive been advised. This might change))

14. What are the best software options on PC?

((Sony will be demonstrating the EX1 using Sony Vegas 8.
For PC, Sony Vegas is the best option for a number of reasons.
1) Smartrendering of long gop (SD or HDV or XDCam)
2) XDCam Explorer media management goes above and beyond Avid
3) Standard Media Manager works alongside XDCam explorer. For studio and broadcast, this is incredible as the entire database can be tracked and tagged with metatags to ensure fast and prompt searching of material.
4) Vegas 8 offers 32bit float colour processing. Yes its slower but not much slower than a high end Mac. In addition, there is no need to input 10bit files and render to uncompressed to get the same if not similar results as 10bit. Its a much more efficient workflow and the program does not leave the 8bit realm. Results have already proven to exceed 10bit limitations.
5) Audio. Vegas supports almost all audio formats on the market today with an inbuilt 5.1 surround sound mixer and mixing console.
6) BD format processing and delivery with 5.1 surround sound - full raster 1920x1080p AVCHD 5.1 can be rendered from the timeline without much fuss and burnt to dvd5 discs. PS3 already supports this with the latest firmware

15. How does it performs against green or blue ( or other color) screen?
((Pretty much exactly like an F350 would. ))

16. How flexible is footage for coloring in native format?
((See number 14.. also consider existing long GOP workflows.))

17. Will there be a firmware upgrade in the future so that one can store 1920x1080 at 35 mbs from the
iLink/firewire port on for example a new FIRESTORE model?
((Unknown at this time, doubtful though, as SxS cards are what are being pushed along with the camera itself))

18. Why no HDMI out?
((because SDI can be adapted for HDMI (if required)- These adapters are known and plentiful. HDMI is also a consumer "adapter" This is not a consumer camera though))

19. Can we use the bundled XDCAM Transfer tool on a PPC Mac, or is it only for Intel Macs?
((cant speak for mac im afraid.. .. ))

20. Can the EX1 record to DR60 (in SP mode, of course) without any SxS card inserted (or with them both 100% full)?
((No offense, but this would be like driving a car at top speed with 2 flat tyres. Dont risk ANY HDD unles you plan to back up at the same time. As it stands the camera will not "record" if a card is not inserted with sufficient capacity. The camera was not designed to read capacities on Hard Drives... only SxS cards. ))

21. What is the bit depth of the internal processing circuitry?
((This was not disucssed.. yet.. find out more on the 17th but in all honesty take an f350 and shrink it.. this is pretty much it))

22. Will the cameras allow use of less expensive SSD cards or actively block them, even if they have sufficient throughput?
((The cards will work.. how WELL they work is a different question altogether. This is purely based on speed and reliability))

Poor Mark :)

The list is a good idea nevertheless; I'd remove some of the questions however - like no. 18...One could as well ask "Why not shoulder-mount?"

What's done is done, guys!

Good point, given the choice, I'd rather have SDI out over HDMI any day.

Very nice camera. Had a good play but it wasn't possible to do critical tests. Ergonomics very good, nicely compact. 16GB cards are $1100 + GST, but that is a particular technology that will get much cheaper (remember 64MB jump memory sticks). 14 bit processing at A/D. Very nice facilities for configuring picture profiles. Can output to external recorder without cards installed. No one knows about the lens controller -- there is a socket but so far nothing to plug into it. No LANC. Suggest there is presently no rival in its price range.

I have noticed the PMW-EX1 will ship to Sydney starting at around $9995 through one particular shop.

Would this be a wise buy? or should i look at the sony Z1 which is still around the $6500?

A think if i hang on a bit the Sony Z1 should drop in price... who knows.


Regards
Simon

No one knows about the lens controller -- there is a socket but so far nothing to plug into it. No LANC.

Strange, there was a photo of it from IBC showing I think a Manfrotto LANC controller plugged in via an adaptor cable and working. Well I assume it was working, would seem rather daft of Sony to put in the public's hands if it didn't work.

Thanks for the mini review, us Syndeysiders have to wait a week to get our paws on one.

Strange, there was a photo of it from IBC showing I think a Manfrotto LANC controller plugged in via an adaptor cable and working. Well I assume it was working, would seem rather daft of Sony to put in the public's hands if it didn't work.

Bob, that was a Libec Fujinon zoom controller, still requiring some sort of adapter.

The Z1 is a very good camera and you need to carefully consider if you need what you get for another $4K. At this time tapes are a lot cheaper than cards, so there are operational costs as well. HDV is a fine medium, so you have to use your head rather than your heart (good advice to myself also).

I have noticed the PMW-EX1 will ship to Sydney starting at around $9995 through one particular shop.

I think if I hang on a bit the Sony Z1 should drop in price... who knows.

To be honest, for HDV, I would recommend the A1 over the Z1 (I sold my Z1's).

The simple fact of pure tweakability is what makes the A1 just that much more versatile, not to mention the full raster 1440x1080 res. It would be a doddle to match the A1 with the EX. I matched the DVX100 to the A1 in under 7 minutes. The EX might need to be dumbed down a little, but not so much as it would need to be to match a Z1

As for the cam, retail is about $13K, street price is $10,500. Anything less is probably an import or the store is undercutting and taking a loss to increase numbers with Sony to get a better dealers price later on

The Z1 is a very good camera and you need to carefully consider if you need what you get for another $4K. At this time tapes are a lot cheaper than cards, so there are operational costs as well. HDV is a fine medium, so you have to use your head rather than your heart (good advice to myself also).

It comes purely down to business...
The question raised... Will you make MORE money with the EX, or the same as though you were shooting with a HDV camcorder?

If the answer is yes, how MUCH more? Irrespective of the environment, or the flexibility or performance of the camera itself, it all comes down to the dollar. How much we spend, and how much our clients are willing to spend for us to use ths technlogy on ther behalf.

We all know and love new toys, but realistically, if the camera doesnt pay itself off in about 2 or 3 jobs (or for many event videogs its 4 to 6), in addition to making editing life easier in the longrun, then its something to really think about.

I just bought an A1 because i had this exact same dillema.. buy an 1xEX or 2xA1's.... or 2xEX's ?? Almost a year ago, i was playing with an F350... now with this cameras existance, I just took my additional $20k out of Sonys pocket..
It makes you think..

Throughout this tossup the question remained.. how much am i spending vs how much do i NEED to spend vs how much will i make in return?

Frankly, i couldnt justify the argument. So im sitting on my lawrels until I suss out the market even further.

I bought 2 Z1's on launch and for my business, the investment didnt hold true. Not because of the camera, but simply because the market i targetted hadnt (and to be honest, STILL DOESNT) have a need for HD.

I was lucky enough to sell them at a good price, and im glad i did because the A1 now, to my eye, is a much more robust camera for the kind of work i do. Then again the A1 is about 2.5yrs younger.. so its to be expected.

The point?
Things change... this is the first of many cameras of this kind.. and we should also be expecting more and more to come, as we have always done in the past.
In 2 years, i dont doubt that the next best thing to arrive will also blow us away..

I also dont doubt that Panasonic will inject the HVX with steroids and may have already gone back to redesigning it to include the new AVCHD PRo format with the addition of a larger imager. Nothing surpries me in this game anymore.

This cam did surprise me though, but it was to be expected with the ongoing issues of HDV we all hear about.
But in the end, we will always be pleasantly surprised and we'll be walking away with thinner wallets as technology advances and our demands are met by the manufacturers. But are these damneds of OUR clients? or OUR OWN?
Are you working for YOU or YOUR CLIENT?

Thinking long and hard about it, I am STILL trying to decide whether the EX is really a NEED.. moreso than a WANT...

The official price is about $9300 (+GST) inc two 8GB cards (intro offer); I didn't note the price figure quoted, but VideoGuys price matches that offer.

If looking for alternatives the V1 would have to be there. In my case I was an early adopter of HDV and I've been waiting for a significantly better camera at an affordable price; the EX looks like it to me.

The answer for input to Vegas Pro 8 is that currently the recorded files have to be converted through the Clip Browser (that comes with the camera), but this was very quick. However later versions of Vegas (8a or 8b) will have the capability built in. Final Cut Pro will have capability for direct ingestion once the camera is released. Edius Pro (Broadcast version only) now will digest direct from the cards.

Hi All,

Mark, Thank You very-very much for great job on Sony's event .
Thank You Steven on helping Mark to make order in questionnaire.

Mark, Your answers were informative and helpful.
As You described Sony hasn't yet answers or solution for every detail on camera. I don't worry about workflow and hardware so much any more.
Still I'm worried about screening and coloring of footage. It is not every day job to do but in some scenarios only way to meet customer requirements.

I think also what Peter said about WHAT CUSTOMER NEEDS or WANTS.
Yes, we are in trouble with archiving EX raw footage and with "ready footage to customer delivery methods". High DEf DVD players are still so far from customers.

Sulev

Yes, we are in trouble with archiving EX raw footage and with "ready footage to customer delivery methods". High DEf DVD players are still so far from customers.

Archiving could be a bit of a hassle but HD delivery is falling into place now: we're further along with that than we were with DVD production in the early years after DVD players were introduced. It's also noteworthy that HD delivery options (especially Blu-ray) support the full source quality of HDV and XDCAM cameras, something we never had with DV.

Agreed though that all of this doesn't guarantee any of us will earn any more money, unless you have customers who appreciate HD enough to pay extra for it. And for many of us two HDV cameras will be more useful than one EX1 for the same price, but it's still good to see a camera this good being offered at the proposed price point. Looks like the EX1 will set a new standard of price versus performance for those who can afford it, so it's hard to complain about that.

[QUOTE=Peter Jefferson;756298]To be honest, for HDV, I would recommend the A1 over the Z1 (I sold my Z1's).

The simple fact of pure tweakability is what makes the A1 just that much more versatile, not to mention the full raster 1440x1080 res.

Hi peter,
are you talking the sony HVRA1P?
could you elabrate on the tweakability of this cam?

Cheers
Simon

Another review (with pre-production version): http://dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=171