After way too much research I'm finally convinced I should go with the DVX100 for my doc, but the editor in me has a couple last questions regarding the two frame sync adjustment issue and no way to generate colorbars in the cam. Thing is, I don't get why I keep seeing gripes about these things. Are they really that big a deal? Can't I just focus in on a colorbar card at the head of each tape, and use a clapper (my film background is showing) to solve these problems? Or even just find a solid snyc point (say a hard consonate) to slip things two frames in post, if the tape has a lot of starts and stops?

What am I missing?
Marcia

I believe the camera will generate color bars in interlace mode, just not in progressive.

Ahh, you're right. Missed that. Thanks. Will just lay it down before switching over to 24p mode.

Nobody has any thoughts on the two frame sync issue?

The 2 frame issue is easy to fix - some software (DV Filmmaker) does it automatically. Plus it's easy to shift in your NLE of choice.

Truth is all miniDV camera suffer from minor audio sync issues to some degree. It would be nice to see it go away, my guess is getting rid of tape will fix the issue.

None of the DVCAM camearas I've used has any sync problem, nor does the JVC500, which is miniDV. But some of the more consumer ones do seem to have a one frame issue sometimes. You can always slip the audio and get your stuff in sync; it's just one more thing to have to deal with. If you're shooting your own stuff, I don't think it's a big deal. If you shoot for other people and give them the tapes and say, "Oh, by the way, everything is a couple frames out of sync," then you might have trouble getting hired again.

DVCAM is supposed to lock audio. My old XL1 has a slight probably - it was less then a frame, but more difficult because it would drift over time. Plus, most software needed a fix due to the XL1 slightly different sampling rate.

I would agree that I would like to see this issue addressed but for those of use to shoot film, syncing takes was just part of the job.

Yeah, I came from a film background myself, which is why I like not having to sync takes anymore. But it's sure a lot easier to do if you have to on an Avid than a Moviola.

I used to have to sync on old 16mm gang stuff. A real nightmare as the speaker was from the 40's.

And all the clutches on the rewinds slipped, right? Ahh...the bad ol' days.

A fun Moviola/16mm story...

An elderly friend of mine who passed away this past year (first woman to receive an Academy Award in sound) once told me about tearing her hair out trying to sync up the 16mm footage for two kids who hadn't used clappers for their doc. Their sound was "a complete mess." She had an extrememly diffficult time in part because the two of them had such thick beards that she couldn't lock things to their lips. Those two kids were a young George Lucas and Francis Coppola. They eventually got it right. :-)

Marcia:

Great story.

Bill:

Yep, it happened. And it tore my mag film & work print to shreads. It was so bad I actually never finished the film. I have a silent rough cut on VHS...

Heheh--yeah, great story, Marcia.

And Stephen...those people who like to talk about the "tactile, hands-on, craftsmanlike feel" of film probably never had to work for a living using 16mm.

Fortunately I never had to make a living on film, but I made about 10 Super 8 shorts (two of them sync sound - talk about an editing nightmare). And no workprints with super 8. Better be sure you like the edit...

Only one 16mm project, but it sank me emotionally and financially (after $8000 of my money in camera rental, film stock, processing, workprints and mag tracks, it was $20,000 from being finished).

I love the look of film (shot a lot of still 35mm in my youth) and the operation of manual cameras. But, I bought an XL1 in round two. The difference, especially in editing is just amazing.

And now to have progressive 24fps cams for less than hour of 16mm production - that's amazing and cool and somewhat off-topic from this thread :)