How do you operate the focus knob on the HVX200 with no infinity stop or close focus (macro) stop. This on top of a lcd screen which is worthless for focus. There must be some logic that I am not grasping. Sincerely,

out of focus

I think all agree that the LCD screen is inadequate for HD focusing. I use "Focus Assist" at full zoom, then pull back.. Most use an external monitor.

As to the stops, just read where you are at on the display. Once you spin up to infinity, it stops there even if you keep spinning. you can set the focus readout from the menu to settings you like.

Compared to the other HD camcorders out there, the HVX's LCD is more than adequate for critical manual focus. The screen brightness and colour rendition is the closest to what your output will be compared to every other camera in this range. Ensure that peaking is ON, you can also turn on magnification while shooting. Unlike most other cameras in this range the HVX allows you to do this.

In regard to Macro, when in Macro focus range, the word Macro will pop up on screen. The range itself doesn't mean anything because you can use macro either at full tele or at the widest wide end.

And finally, the LCD/EVF readout will give you a number between 0 and 99 whereby your focus range can be set. With this, there is a distance readout, which is far more accurate than any I have seen (yes, even more accurate than the XH A1)

I don't use the LCD (or even focus assist) on the camera these days (the LCDs are simply too small and not sharp enough). Invest in a LH80 external LCD monitor with 'red-in-focus' function and your focusing problems with the HVX202 is gone forever.

Contrary to the other posts, the built-in flip-out LCD is just fine for focus work, even critical focus. The HPX500 uses the exact LCD screen and we've used it on many occasion with a 35mm lens adapter with super results.

No, the resolution isn't as good as some of the other handheld HD cams and many HVX shooters don't have the budget for an external monitor. Not to mention there are many situations where an external simply isn't feasible to use. But once you get used to how things look when focus is achieved (use focus assist to help train your eyes) then focusing is a snap.

The LCD's lack of resolution has always been one of the biggest complaints from HVX users across the board; the hope is the next-gen of HVX will address this issue.

I know how you feel. Many people have felt the same way. There are a lot of things that play in to how critical the focus is. We all know what they are. One thing I found that works is using the Zacuto base plate with the Vocas MFC-1 follow focus and a Chroziel gear ring. I like this setup because its smooth and doesn't squeeze my glass. It also gives me a hard stop and the ability to mark my focus. Although, many beautiful things have been shot without all the gadgets. I like my camera to demand respect on set. On the other hand I would never consider these things if I wanted to roll low profile. Like you I wish my eyes were better or my LCD bigger so an external monitor is always a blessing when I know other people will notice.

I have enabled everything that is available on the HVX202 - EVF on, FOCUS Assist on - I still get blur pictures in the end. Once I put the LH80 in with the 'focus-in-red' function activated, no more blur pictures from then on.

Yes - I fully agreed that LH80 (or any external monitor) might not work for some situations.

Therefore, I support the call for Panasonic to put a sharper LCD into the camera for the next iteration. One look at the LCD for the Nikon D3 or D300 puts the Pany's LCD to shame.

One look at the LCD for the Nikon D3 or D300 puts the Pany's LCD to shame.

It's not a fair comparison to put a DSLR and a video camera's LCD head-to-head. Digital still cameras have 10x the resolution of any HD camera today (excepting Viper, RED etc) hence they absolutely need ultra-res on the LCD to check focus.

We all agree the HVX/HPX and other Panny cams with the flip-out LCD need greater resolution and hopefully after 2 years of whining about it the Panny-gods will listen to us.

My point being - the technology is there already. No excuse for Pany for not looking at this one for the next iteration of this product then.

Thinking like a still photographer, I found infinity in manual focus by zooming in and using the focus assist. Next I marked it. Next I zoomed out and checked infinity again with the focus assist. Great, that works. Next, I went to a mid range focus (about 100 yards away) and got a focus with the focus assist. When I went back to infinity (as marked on the focus wheel) I lost focus.

Besides spending $2,500 on a monitor, what are other solutions?

Ikan makes a 7 incher called a V7000 for only $349. I have not personally used it so I cant tell you how durable it is. I have seen one and they look great and are super light.

For manual focusing and returning back to that same point, look into your camera viewfinder and you will see MF00 to MF99. If you put it in auto focus, it will read AF00 to AF99. Infinity should be MF99 or AF99. Set your lens to midway and check its reading - say MF50. So, if you want infinity, turn the focusing ring until it reaches MF99. If you want to return to midway, turn the focusing ring till it says MF50. That's all.

For much faster approach, get a US$229 gadget - Varizoom Lens Controller for HVX200 (there are 3 models). See this URL from ZGC.COM as an example -

http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995edb4e7585256b4d001ebd57/d1a304343c1e9d1c852571070059f6f3?OpenDocument

Chris from zgc ALWAYS gives me great service (even though I am across the Pacific Ocean) ... and zgc is also one of the sponsors for this website.

I don't use my HVX much, it's really a B camera for me, but I do have the FOXI (stupid name) controller for mine, which can mount on matte box rods, and controls both focus and iris -

AND, something they don't hype enough in their ads - when you plug the unit into the camera, focus and iris settings (when set to manual) always fall in the exact same place on the scales, so you can actually mark footage and f stops (ie, on white gaffers tape) and see them clearly...

You CAN focus past inf, so you should mark it, or you can but a thick piece of tape on the knob to make a hard stop.. it ain't perfect, but it's way better than trying to live with that spongy focus collar...

FYI - I peeled the gaudy FOXI label off the center of the knob and glued in a white disk - looks just like a pro FF now.

I echo TingSern's comments about Christine at ZGC, too...

Steve,

That FOXI is expensive compared to the VARIZOOM controller. Almost double the price of the VZ-SLEATH and only controls focus. The Varizoom offers more value then - controls zoom, focus and iris.

I am waiting for mine to appear from ZGC. I am just hoping (just!) to see if the VZ-SLEATH focus function will return to exactly the same position each time or not :-).

TingSern; Yeah, the FOXI's too expensive...

But interestingly enough it's an electronic controller that's 1/5 the price of a Chrosziel manual control - of course it will only work on the HVX and/or DVX, so you can't keep it from camera to camera - but still, it's a big knob and feels more like a pro FF than those little ones (I have big hands) - and, I always get my button pushing out of phase when I try to use those varizoom units...

I like the big handle Varizooms, but they don't have focus controllers (at least they didn't used to)..

It's not a fair comparison to put a DSLR and a video camera's LCD head-to-head. Digital still cameras have 10x the resolution of any HD camera today (excepting Viper, RED etc) hence they absolutely need ultra-res on the LCD to check focus.

We all agree the HVX/HPX and other Panny cams with the flip-out LCD need greater resolution and hopefully after 2 years of whining about it the Panny-gods will listen to us.

Robert, it is fair. Even my Canon G9 has a better LCD than the HVX. And that's a 399 camera- How much can the LCD cost?

Believe me, I hear you Sergio. I own the same camera and the LCD is gorgeous.

You'd think, that since these high-res LCD's have been out for years now and *none* of the video camera manufacturers use them for their video cameras (why doesn't Canon use that same LCD technology for their own H1, for example?) I can only surmise that there must be a technological reason rather than monetary that keeps them from using these LCD's.

There may also be a human psychological factor involved here too; since these high-res LCD's would make imagery appear unusually sharp the actual output would never live up to what people see in those high-res LCD's.

Off topic: That G9 is an amazing camera; I shot this macro with it - the original camera raw is huge and gorgeous!

Believe me, I hear you Sergio. I own the same camera and the LCD is gorgeous.

You'd think, that since these high-res LCD's have been out for years now and *none* of the video camera manufacturers use them for their video cameras (why doesn't Canon use that same LCD technology for their own H1, for example?) I can only surmise that there must be a technological reason rather than monetary that keeps them from using these LCD's.

There may also be a human psychological factor involved here too; since these high-res LCD's would make imagery appear unusually sharp the actual output would never live up to what people see in those high-res LCD's.

Off topic: That G9 is an amazing camera; I shot this macro with it - the original camera raw is huge and gorgeous!

Off topic: I hear you, Robert. That camera is so sharp that my girl hates it! It shows wrinkles on her face that she didn't even know where there... :)

Back to the LCD's... You know, i actually followed that line of tought for a while. But I just look at my Iphone and PSP (specially the PSP), and I just can't find a reason for these screens to not be implemented on thse cameras. Again, these are 299 to 399 gadgets that display excelent video.

The only possible reason that comes up to mind is battery life. But with lithium batteries more and more powerful nowadays- a Sony 970 battery lasts about 5 to 6 hours- I wouldn't mind compromising this to 3 hours if it would solve my much more critical focusing issue. Owning 3 or four camera batteries is a much more affordable and acceptable proposition than an investment in a 2000 or 1000 dollar external LCD that is heavy and takes out the mobility of the camera!

I did invest in the 2000 dollar monitor, though. I went for the panny. Since i was buying an external, i figured i might as well buy one that would work for the future. And the waveform feature is excelent, as well as the essential focus in red. If it was just a bit less heavy, tough...

The other thing you could look at is refresh rate. It's one thing to show a still image on a screen, but when you're pushing 30fps is there going to be motion blur added by a low pixel refresh on the lcd. It might be that high resolution, high refresh is highly difficult and expensive.

If you look at Panasonic Consumer, and their comparison of plasma technology to LCD technology, they point out how effective resolution on LCD's drops in high action due to motion blurring. Now that would be nasty trying to find focus on that high res screen.

Just guessing, but that might be a reason.

I did invest in the 2000 dollar monitor, though. I went for the panny. Since i was buying an external, i figured i might as well buy one that would work for the future. And the waveform feature is excelent, as well as the essential focus in red. If it was just a bit less heavy, tough...

If you offload the weight of the AB battery and use the LH80's external power supply cord to connect the AB battery to it, you can clip the AB battery to your tripod, trouser belt, or elsewhere - instead of putting it on the Panny LH80 - where weight becomes an issue.

The other thing you could look at is refresh rate. It's one thing to show a still image on a screen, but when you're pushing 30fps is there going to be motion blur added by a low pixel refresh on the lcd. It might be that high resolution, high refresh is highly difficult and expensive.

If you look at Panasonic Consumer, and their comparison of plasma technology to LCD technology, they point out how effective resolution on LCD's drops in high action due to motion blurring. Now that would be nasty trying to find focus on that high res screen.

Just guessing, but that might be a reason.

Jeff, PSP and Iphone mantain resolution quite well in motion...

EDIT- Tingsern Wong, I'm planning on going the belt way. However, for handhelld, I think i should invest on something on the lines of a shoulder support, or I feel it will just be too heavy. Actually, can you post a picture of how you mount the monitor for Handheld? I'm trying to configure my handheld setup and really would like suggestions for this. The Panasonic HK guys suggested me a SLIK 32 to support itself on the top handle. any better suggestion?

PSP and Iphone mantain resolution quite well in motion...

PSP is something like 480-272? Pretty low res, especially for trying to monitor HD.

I don't know at all. I just know it is a big problem for many LCD computer monitors and LCD televisions. To get a high response rate LCD HDTV it is a significant premium. In a critical application like a camera LCD I would think monitor induced blur would be a nightmare.

What the heck are you lot talking about?

A decent movie (ARRI etc) camera with optical viewfinder blows any LCD clean off the planet.

Guess what they use for focus?

Viewfinder - nope. Screen - nope. Dope with a rope - nope.

Wanna know?

A LRF.

Works for them, works for me. Could work for you too.

Guess I'm just lucky. I don't have to spend squillions of bucks and have a crew of 5 to make sure I do, actually, have everything in focus.

Guess it's horses for course. Anyone can make it as hard as they like for themselves, if they really want.

Worth a thought.


CS

Chris,

Unfortunately, digital movie cameras don't have optical rangefinder. We use an prehistoric creature called LCD.

EDIT- Tingsern Wong, I'm planning on going the belt way. However, for handhelld, I think i should invest on something on the lines of a shoulder support, or I feel it will just be too heavy. Actually, can you post a picture of how you mount the monitor for Handheld? I'm trying to configure my handheld setup and really would like suggestions for this. The Panasonic HK guys suggested me a SLIK 32 to support itself on the top handle. any better suggestion?

I don't mount the LH80 on the camera itself. I don't think the HVX202 handle is strong enough to cope with the punishment. Even without the added weight of the AB battery, the LCD unit itself is already pretty heavy. When I use the LH80, the camera is on a tripod, with the LH80 mounted on a side rail attached to the tripod leg. Sometimes for filiming inside concert halls for example, I use a separate tripod for the LH80.

I don't mount the LH80 on the camera itself. I don't think the HVX202 handle is strong enough to cope with the punishment. Even without the added weight of the AB battery, the LCD unit itself is already pretty heavy. When I use the LH80, the camera is on a tripod, with the LH80 mounted on a side rail attached to the tripod leg. Sometimes for filiming inside concert halls for example, I use a separate tripod for the LH80.

So no handheld with the BTlh80, Tingsern Wong?

Jeff, 480x272 is already better rez than the HVX LCD...

EDIT- Heard the SOny EX has an excelent LCD. So it must be possible. which means there's no excuse for a low quality screen on the next HVX.

So no handheld with the BTlh80, Tingsern Wong?


If I were to use it "handheld", I use the BTLH80 inside a Petrol monitor bag - it comes with its own builtin hood as well. I sling the Petrol bag and walk along with it.

Picture 1 - LH80 inside Petrol bag (rear view)
Picture 2 - LH80 inside Petrol bag (front view), with hood + plastic protector
Picture 3 - LH80 inside Petrol bag (with hood up - front view)

If I were to use it "handheld", I use the BTLH80 inside a Petrol monitor bag - it comes with its own builtin hood as well. I sling the Petrol bag and walk along with it.

Picture 1 - LH80 inside Petrol bag (rear view)
Picture 2 - LH80 inside Petrol bag (front view), with hood + plastic protector
Picture 3 - LH80 inside Petrol bag (with hood up - front view)

Hmm, so you hold the camera, and basically look down to frame. Seems like something that requires a different approach to normal handheld shooting. But it does sound economical. Much more than the Zacutto package.

If I have to handhold the camera and walk at the same time, somebody else will hold the LH80 for me. That's rarely done for my videos. Most of the time, I am stationary or move to a location, film, then move to another location, film. So, for my purpose, the LH80 can also be mounted on a separate tripod from the camera. My camera is mostly on a video tripod 99% of the time.

I adjust the zoom, focus, and aperature by using the Varizoom Sleath controller. Unless I have to shift the camera, I can just look at the LH80 most of the time, while I control the 3 functions of the camera. In particular, the zoom and focus settings. Aperature settings not so much, unless the light changes.

Hmm... maybe a dvrigpro+ a normal shoe mount for the monitor will work?

Where are you intending to mount the BTLH80 on the DVRIGPRO in that case? If you thinking of putting it on top of the HVX202 (the hole at the top of the handle - towards the viewfinder side) - I have doubts that it is strong enough to cope with the weight when you are moving around.

I have given it long thoughts about this issue - long term, the Petrol bag is the most appropriate option. If the HVX202 handle breaks, you might as well buy a new camera.

Tripod mount - make sure it is the "anti-twist" kind - or else, you are going to have a frustrating time in the field.

I found the answer to my original question. In manual focus a guide comes up MF00 to MF99 with 00 being an inch or so and 99 infinity. MM80 is around 15 or so feet and MM90 is about 100 ft. With these in mind, at least it is a starting point.

thanks

Jack,

Check out my other post -

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110342

If you faster and repeatable manual focusing ... that is.

TS

I found the answer to my original question. In manual focus a guide comes up MF00 to MF99 with 00 being an inch or so and 99 infinity. MM80 is around 15 or so feet and MM90 is about 100 ft. With these in mind, at least it is a starting point.

thanks

Not quite accurate though; infinity is at MF95, not MF99. MF99 is actually "past" infinity (perhaps to allow for thermal calibration issues or ?)

It's a lot easier to just swap over to ft/meters than it is to use the MF numbers and try to translate that to distances though.

Thanks Barry,
How would I find the conversion to ft/meters in the menu?

My HVX202 displays the distance in the viewfinder in meters :-). No MF00 to MF99. Just Macro, 0.5m ... all the way to 50m .... then INF. I use the Varizoom Sleath controller to mark the distance on the manual focus dial. To test the accuracy of the distance readout - I put a gray card at 6 distances - zoom in to the gray card - focus on it and see what the camera says for the distance, and I measure that distance from the camera to the gray card using a laser distance measurement device (by Bosch). It agrees very nicely (up the limits of the display on the viewfinder).

Thanks Barry,
How would I find the conversion to ft/meters in the menu?

It's in the "display setup" menu.

TingSern, I'm very close to replacing my Marshall with a Panasonic BT-LH80WP, due to focus-in-red, pixel for pixel and the waveform.

Is Component the only way you can connect the HVX with an HD signal to it, or can you also connect via the Composite yellow Video lead?

I've tracked through the manual I've found online, but am unsure as to the answer. As an owner I was hoping you might have the answer.

I ask this because of studio situations where clients have wanted video feeds to client monitors, and because Component out disables the other video outs on the HVX we've had to use composite or S-video for the client, and S-video for the Marshall. I'd like to know I could still have this flexibility.


thanks in advance

mike.c

Mike,

You could get an AJA HD10A and an AJA HD10MD3 and as long as you have the HD/SDI board (sold sep). You go HVX component to the 10A to the MD3 which will be a splitter. There is no thru put on the 80W. Other wise you could set the camera to do SD out and the s-video, component, and composite will all send an SD signal out (defeats the purpose I know).

If you or anybody needs anything feel free to drop me a line.
gregg@abelcine.com

TingSern, I'm very close to replacing my Marshall with a Panasonic BT-LH80WP, due to focus-in-red, pixel for pixel and the waveform.

..................

I've tracked through the manual I've found online, but am unsure as to the answer. As an owner I was hoping you might have the answer.

mike.c

Hi Mike,

I don't have answers with me right now ... will go back to check tonight (12 hours more) ... and let you know.

Mike,

HVX202 transmit a SD signal via the composite port. Only on the component output - you get a HD signal. The BTLH80W monitor has SDI, Component and composite input. It does NOT have S-video input. Because of that, I am unable to tell whether the S-video port on the camera is sending HD or SD.

I tested the setup using my system just now. HVX202 is set to HD (720p). If I connect the component output to BTLH80W - I get HD signal appearing on the monitor. If I connect only the composite output of the camera, the monitor still shows the picture, but it is the SD version of the signal.

A consolation to this - to my eyes, the resulting video screen on the monitor (whether in HD or SD) looks just as sharp as each other. I think there is some scaling h/w in the monitor that dynamically expands the video ... you can set in the monitor setup menu whether you want 4:3 or 16:9 for SD signals. Also, the focus in red, pixel to pixel, waveform - works whether the signal is HD or SD.

All this while, the camera is always capturing the video in HD (720p).

TS

Thanks TingSern. That confirms what I expected.

I've had a dialogue with Greggor from AbelCine today, along the lines of working around this. He'll be getting my order for a BT-LH80WP..;-)

A good, cheap solution seems to be to use one of these (or similar) straight from the HVX component, then feeding the monitor from that, with extra components out for further monitors chained together:

http://sewelldirect.com/gefen-component-splitter-1x3.asp

I take it you're still happy with your monitor?
Next step will be the DVXUser market place to sell a Marshall and Nogas.


mike

Mike,

I think there are limits (practical and electrical) to how many monitors you can daisy chain this way before the image starts to show "wear and tear". It is a function of the cable length, and the quality of your splitters you use. Nearly all the cheap video splitters are just passive components - no electronics - just banks of copper / silver ... so, the more chains you pass them through, the weaker the signal will be.

If you are just putting one - no problems. I have seen some shops overdo it :-).

BTLH80W monitor is great ... especially so for doing manual work - that is - manual focusing and zooming. The viewfinder on the HVX202 is not good enough for doing manual focusing at all. I use it with the 4 pin XLR power cable - connect it to a 2m long wire - to AB's Gold Mount on the other side. Then I don't need to mount the battery on the monitor. Much lighter this way on the HVX202's handle.

Even then - I use one Zacuto's HVX202 Heavy Load Support on the handle itself as well - to prevent long term damage on the handle.

TS