Hi and thanks ahead of time. After advice from folks here and another site, I have decided to get another vx 2100 or get a pd 170.

First tho, my current vx2100 i have used with a Focus FS-4Pro 80 gig Firewire DTE. And recently my firewire in the vx went bad while taping. I just had it repaired for an ungodly amount, but it was done. Is this a common problem on the vx2100? I won't be hot swapping anymore.

And on the PD 170, is the firewire any better/dependable or just as bad/same as the 2100? I had heard that the 2100 was not true firewire, and wondered if the 170 was.

Now, I want to get another SD corder that has good lo lite/indoor capability and it is down to either another 2100 before they quit selling them, or a 170.

Is the low lite in the 170 as good, better, or slightly worse than the 2100?

And how is the VQ of the 170? Any better since it came out after the 2100(technological advances)? Someone here said it was a 2100 on steroids. Steroids in real life are bad, I would assume this does not apply here does it?

If the low lite is the same, which would you guys advise I get?

And what, if anything makes the 170 better than the 2100?

Thanks again, I just want to get something to back up in case my current 2100 goes bad totally and if that is another 2100, want to get it before it is too late(i don't know when they may discontinue, but would assume they won't be there forever)

One other question, BH is sellilng the 170 w/a sony 0780 wide angle converter. Is that a good converter that will not take away from the VQ, and if not what converter would you recommend? And will this one work on the 2100 too? thanks all...
Jerry

to put to rest any and all misconceptions of the VX2100 and the PD170-the cameras are exactly the same, OTHER than control layout, XLRs vs not, menus.
I'm talking about the inards. The electronics, glass, chips, all the important stuff is the same.
I've used 150s, 170s,250s and 500s and the only one that's different is the 500. Take that out of the mix and the only difference is that the 170 has slightly better iris control than the 150 and is slightly better in low light than the 150 or the 250. Other than that they and the VX series (2000 and 2100) are the same. (agan speaking of the stuff inside)
The XLRs, and camera controls of the 170 I believe are easier to get to and use than the 2100.
As for the WA lens attachment I can't say as I have one that I've never used. I use a CO WA attachment
Don

Thanks Don, that was very well and to the point put, so I think I will opt for the 170.

I am not ashamed to say I am not a pro and shoot full auto..chuckling..I do the manual stuff on my DSLR as that is my main past time, this is for the continuing archiving of my daughter growing up and a lot of it is shot indoors thus the low light, but thanks for your knowledge on that and experience.

Not knowing much about WA converters on camcorders, can you tell me what brand CO stands for?

And Don, have you ever had a prob with the firewire in any of these?
Thanks so very much.
Jerry

Now that my original question is decided, would like to amend for another opinion.

Still would like to hear more on the WA adapter(s)

But for a carry around in good light/daylight, for soccer and outdoor stuff, currently I use an Optura 50. I save the VX/PD for indoor awards, ceremonies and important things, but for carrying around to soccer games, zoo, and so forth I don't because I don't want it damaged and it is bulky to carry with My Canon DSLR's.

So for a good light/daylight as noted above any recommendations for something with great quality that is under 1k? The optura is great but I figured there may be a couple out there now that have better VQ. If not will stick with the Optura...thanks again
Jerry

Don't know about the Optura 50 but in answer to your question about WA lens attachments CO is Century Optics. I also have a KenkoPro that works great and was a few hundred less.

As for which is better, I like them both-which would I recommend-depends on what you need. In your case you probably don't need the CO and the expense when some thing like the KenkoPro would work really well at far less expense.

I have a Sony .70 WA that I really don't care for-IMO it is a grainy lens and vignettes but maybe it's just me. Also it's a bit less wide than the other 2 I have so it's sits home on a shelf, all lonely and sad cause I never use it.

Nothing wrong with full auto-I've always said the camera is smarter than us 99% of the time ;-) I use it also when shooting the g-kids-they're rally fast!
HTHs
Don

One other question, BH is sellilng the 170 w/a sony 0780 wide angle converter. Is that a good converter that will not take away from the VQ, and if not what converter would you recommend? And will this one work on the 2100 too? thanks all...
Jerry

Jerry,

Please check out our .65x zoom through converter for the Sony PD170. It enjoys a strong reputation for this model camera and has been one of our best selling peices for this model for some time now.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1072&IID=876


Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Any of the converters are going to have a negative impact on the video quality, that's that nature of the optics involved.

The Sony is probably no better than any of them and probably no worse. I don't have direct experience with the Sony, only Canon and Century.

Of the 3 Century WA adapters I have, the one for my PD-110 and my DSR-300 are great. The one for my PD-150 is not satisfactory with visible softening of the image.

I also have a KenkoPro that works great and was a few hundred less.

Don

I've used the KenkoPro .65x with my VX2000 for years with pleasant results. I've actually extended to use with my HV20, and the results are usable even with that HDV camera.

And this does allow it to produce better video than the PD170 under very limited light conditions. The PD170 has the same amount of sensitivity as the VX2100 in dim light, but the results won't be as clean and usable.

And this does allow it to produce better video than the PD170 under very limited light conditions. The PD170 has the same amount of sensitivity as the VX2100 in dim light, but the results won't be as clean and usable.


???? Noise Reduction for video? I'm sorry but in over 7 years of using PD150s and 170s as well as DSR250s and other cameras I've not ever seen a video noise reduction setting on those cameras. NOR have I ever heard of or seen a video noise reduction setting for the VX series.

Both the VX series and the PD series (PD150-VX2000 and PD 170-VX2100) use the same electronics,chips and glass-there is no difference in the inards of those cameras.

Perhaps you could clarify this as I've used the PDs and DSR at as much as 15db gain and had pretty clean footage but if there IS a video noise reduction setting (again I've never seen it but...) I would love to know about it.

Don

Doesn't the 170 have an option to run the tape at a different pitch that
helps with dropouts???

And I thought the wide angle lens was allways included with the 170...

The PD series will do either DV or DVCAM HOWEVER it has pretty well been proven and documented on this board and others that there is little if ANY difference in quality between the 2 formats other than the fact that DVCAM will run thru the tape faster than DV.
In using my 150s and 170 over the years I did try it myself and found ZERO difference in quality-and also found I had drops in both modes. Those drps were attributed to tapes not the camera mode.
If you search thru the forum you'll find numerous post regarding DV vs DVCAM.
As for the WA lens included with the 170 yes it is. It is a Sony .70 screw mount-I have 1 sitting on my shelf unused. I prefer bayonet mount and both my CO and KenkoPro over the Sony. BUT that's just me.
Don

besides the wide angle advantage of the lens, it also has the tendency
to balance the camera when the larger battery is in use.. :-)

As to noise reduction... non on the camera, but the footage from any of these cam's work quite well with the program " Neat Video "

http://www.neatvideo.com/

besides the wide angle advantage of the lens, it also has the tendency
to balance the camera when the larger battery is in use.. :-)

Actually it's been my experience that the PD seies of camera is fairly front heavy to begin with and the WA attachment only makes it more so. The 970 battery on the camera does little to balance it out. There is a rather large baance discrepancy and I found only 2 things have ever worked for me to get the camera anywhere close to proper balance. 1) thru the use of a bracket attatch a wireless receiver to the camera-PROBELM- because the brackets produced for small form factor cameras are designed so one can still operate the camera with the bracket on, ther receiver is placed to the right side which on a full size camera is no problem but with the PD series now you have added a lot of extra weight not to th back of the camera where it is really needed to balance BUT to the RIGHT rear which throws the camera off balance even more. The only good thing about it is that if cradling the camera you can rest the bracket on your right forearm and the LCD on your left and hold a reasonable shot. Still not the best solution.
2) The best solution for balancing the PD series cameras with a WA on it or a receiver ir whatever is the DVMultiRig. It may look funny but it works and after using a nicely balanced full size rig it's nice to have a nicely balanced small form rig as well.
BUT that's just my look at it-YMMV.
Don

I've shot some real estate video with the VX2000. You will need a Wide angle adapter on most any camera, to do justice to a room. Unless you have a real expensive wide angle adapter, you will likely be dealing with barrel distortion, but it is acceptable in most situations. As far as use for internet video, there is no issue with respect to using VX or PD cameras. Given the low light capabilities, you can shoot night shots in the home to convey that feel too.

???? Noise Reduction for video? I'm sorry but in over 7 years of using PD150s and 170s as well as DSR250s and other cameras I've not ever seen a video noise reduction setting on those cameras. NOR have I ever heard of or seen a video noise reduction setting for the VX series.

Both the VX series and the PD series (PD150-VX2000 and PD 170-VX2100) use the same electronics,chips and glass-there is no difference in the inards of those cameras.

Perhaps you could clarify this as I've used the PDs and DSR at as much as 15db gain and had pretty clean footage but if there IS a video noise reduction setting (again I've never seen it but...) I would love to know about it.

Don

I don't know of a user-adjustable setting for the noise-reduction on either model, but all modern camcorders have an NR system as part of their fundamental signal processing. The VX2100 was given a different NR feature and this has been debated and substantiated by users on this forum in the past. There's been a couple of contributors who owned both that model and a PD170 and reported a distinct edge in video quality in extreme low-light situations for the VX2100. I've never used a PD170, so maybe those people will reappear and describe this again. I never cease to be amazed at what my VX2100 will do at sunset and even afterward.

Here's a link to a thread where I posted a J-PEG shot with my VX2100, taken 8 minutes after sunset. Video footage tends to be even better in dim light, as the mechanical shutter used for J-PEG stills tends to limit the exposure more. This was shot with a Raynox 2.2X telex for a total of 950mm. Although the auto gain obviously was working at a high level, it didn't cause the white heads and bodies of the Buffleheads to bloom, as I'd expect from many camcorders.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87327

Built in I get but I read the post as a user adjustable. As for the 2100 being better in low light than the 170 again, everything inside is the same. Absolutely the same so maybe it's wishful thinking or the way LCD was set (bad way to judge color or exposure but when it's all you got...) and frankly in the years I've been on this forum I have never read a post about the 2100 being better in low light than the 170 OR the 2000 better than the 150. They are the same cameras inside. Chips, glass and electronics. As I'm sure you are aware the biggest difference between the 2000 and 2100 and the 150 - 170 was the DSP to lower the lux to 1 from 2. There were of course other differences of course but this was the one everyone got all excited about.

I have shot work with a friend of mine who uses a 2100 and there has been zero difference in footage. Good light, bad light whatever light the quality of the footage has been identical.

I've shot alot of sports and news at night without additional lighting and frankly it no longer surprises me at the quality the 170 provides in adverse lighting conditions-I take it for granted.
Don

According to some folks reporting that the new low light king is no longer
the PD170... they claim that the EX1 is better.... but it should be at those
prices and hardware...