We just did a beta release for Prospect HD and NEO HD, for those wishing to get the best use of their EX cam under Premiere Pro and After Effects. More information here : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110264

David,

What ever happened with your coming out with a Cineform codec for use on Macs?

Thanks,

Daniel Weber

That's so 6 months ago. :) Where have you been?

David,

I upgraded my NeoHDV to NeoHD right now, and I tried to convert an .MP4 file from my Ex1 to .AVI, but I failed. The HDLink capture log says "Error:AudioDecoder.CocreateInstance(CLSID-CFMP4AudioSourcePush)(0x80040154-Class not registered) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 1609)".

And converting the MXF file leaves no error massage but the converted .AVI file is just a green screen.

Please help me!

That is why we beta test. Thank you for your report. We are missing a component in the new build, which is easily fixed. Uninstall NEO HD, and download from the same link again, I just refreshed it with the missing component. Re-install and please try again.

P.S. It is now working on my home PC.

That's so 6 months ago. :) Where have you been?

Out traveling around the world shooting!!!!

I just asked a question regarding an announcement that you made earlier.

All I asked for was for clarification, not a smart ass answer.

I'm not a PC guy, so I guess I don't need to worry about your products anyway.

I appologize. Sorry my intended light hearted response come across too harsh. It isn't releated to this post which is regarding our PC products.

Our codec has been available on the Mac for sometime, and comes will all our highend tools to allow cross-platform workflows.

David,

I upgraded my NeoHDV to NeoHD right now, and I tried to convert an .MP4 file from my Ex1 to .AVI, but I failed. The HDLink capture log says "Error:AudioDecoder.CocreateInstance(CLSID-CFMP4AudioSourcePush)(0x80040154-Class not registered) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 1609)".

And converting the MXF file leaves no error massage but the converted .AVI file is just a green screen.

Please help me!

Same story with the Prospect HD download. I get exactly the same error.

EDIT: Re-downloaded and everything works fine.

RE-EDIT: Wow!


This is probably the first product I've downloaded that worked instantly! I cannot believe how simple this is. I'm sold.

David,

Thank you for your 'real-time' response.

Now converting .MP4 problem is solved. Maybe you don't support MXF at this moment.. The same problem.

My new problem is that Premiere pro 2.0 do not display the converted .AVI files correctly in the preview window, while window media player correctly plays them.

Edit: I tried to import the AVI files into Vegas Pro 8.0a, but this makes the Vegas shut down... No way to edit the AVI for me now...
Please help me.

Maybe,, Should I open a new ticket at your Cineform support center?

"Maybe,, Should I open a new ticket at your Cineform support center?"



mmm,
yeah.

Unfortunately it doesn't work. No EX files in Cineform codec here...

- I downloaded 3.22 Neo,
- installed it over a trial version that still has 6 more days trial period (I do have a previous version of ConnectHD which I can upgrade)
- HDlink syas it is version 3.2.2
- selected a few MXF files
- converted
- HDlink capture log says it is Capture Application version 2.2.5 ?? and Prospect/NEO HD 3.2.2 build 147
- try to play them but the image is completely green
- imported them into Vegas but still the image is green and the audio tracks are longer than the video


Regards,
Erwin

I appologize. Sorry my intended light hearted response come across too harsh. It isn't releated to this post which is regarding our PC products.

Our codec has been available on the Mac for sometime, and comes will all our highend tools to allow cross-platform workflows.
David,

Not a problem. Sorry if I didn't find your response funny!!! I shouldn't respond to posts after I have spent all day traveling!!

I will check out your Mac offering.

Daniel Weber

MXF = green report. I have just tested some XDCAM-HD files and some converted EX files to MXF and everything is working fine. Could someone please upload a short MXF file that has this problem.

David, I am curious....

are there advantages to using Cineform with MxF files versus the MP4 files??

No advantage using MXF over MP4 files. In both cases we remove the wrappers to extract the MPEG2 core and audio stream and convert that data to CineForm AVI. There is an advantage to using the EX's native MP4 files as they can contain the prized 1920x1080 images, whereas the current Sony MXF implementation only supports 1440x1080. This is why we went to trouble of supporting the MP4 files directly.

There is an advantage to using the EX's native MP4 files as they can contain the prized 1920x1080 images, whereas the current Sony MXF implementation only support 1440x1080. This is why we went to trouble of support the MP4 files directly.

This is very good news David! I'll be upgrading my Neo HDV to NEO HD to use with Sony Vegas.

No advantage using MXF over MP4 files. In both cases we remove the wrappers to extract the MPEG2 core and audio stream and convert that data to CineForm AVI.
David, tell me you are not kidding. Your codec works with Final Cut as well and it seems to make sense to use it during the complete workflow but why on earth then via AVI and not QT on a Mac? Or did I miss something?

David, tell me you are not kidding. Your codec works with Final Cut as well and it seems to make sense to use it during the complete workflow but why on earth then via AVI and not QT on a Mac? Or did I miss something?

If you are intending to move the files to the Mac or you are running HDLink under Parallel or other Windows emulator, then you should specify MOV in the Prefs panel. CineForm wrapped as either AVI or MOV will work on both platforms, yet there are benefits to the AVI wrapper while on the PC and the MOV wrapper while on the Mac. If you need to convert an AVI to an MOV or visa versa, we that a re-wrapping option that is as fast as you disk speed (no recompression.)

There is an advantage to using the EX's native MP4 files as they can contain the prized 1920x1080 images, whereas the current Sony MXF implementation only supports 1440x1080. This is why we went to trouble of supporting the MP4 files directly.

David, could you please clarify this - I have some downloaded EX1 footage which after converted to MXF with the Sony Browser is still reported as 1920 x 1080 when put on the Vegas timeline.

If you are intending to move the files to the Mac or you are running HDLink under Parallel or other Windows emulator, then you should specify MOV in the Prefs panel. CineForm wrapped as either AVI or MOV will work on both platforms, yet there are benefits to the AVI wrapper while on the PC and the MOV wrapper while on the Mac. If you need to convert an AVI to an MOV or visa versa, we that a re-wrapping option that is as fast as you disk speed (no recompression.) David, thanks for that quick explanation. As I am on a Mac I will stick to MOV. But it's good to know how simple it is to change borders.

David, could you please clarify this - I have some downloaded EX1 footage which after converted to MXF with the Sony Browser is still reported as 1920 x 1080 when put on the Vegas timeline.

It could be Sony fixed the problem. With our version of the EX browser tool, it would not convert any 1920x1080 media to MXF, only the 1440x1080 would correctly convert. Anyway, direct use of MP4s saves a step.

David,

I have a small test-clip available for you:
http://www.dendv.nl/elements/test/

The MXF file is straight out of the EX camera, it is recorded at the highest quality (1080-50i, 1920x1080 35mbps).

After converting with the 3.2.2 Neo beta version I end up with an avi that is completely green with an out-of-sync audio track.

I really hope I am doing something wrong over here, cause I would like to use the cinecodec!

Regards,
Erwin

Thank you that footage will help us solve the problem. This is what happens when Sony only gives us footage, not a camera, we where not aware that the camera could record to 1920x1080 MXFs, all the samples they provided where MP4s. Shoot with MP4s for now.

Shoot with MP4s for now.

Ok, but I have 800+ clips already in MXF format now :-(

At least MXF files are playable on the PC with the MXF-viewer (mp4's don't work), and MXF is also playable in Vegas (dragging a mp4 directly into Vegas doesn't work, MXF does as it is supported).

BTW: the camera records mp4's, and with the supplied SONY clip browsing tool you are supposed to "empty" the SxS cards and copy them to your hard drive. It then unwrappes the mp4's to MXF for you automatically.

Regards,
Erwin

It could be Sony fixed the problem. With our version of the EX browser tool, it would not convert any 1920x1080 media to MXF, only the 1440x1080 would correctly convert. Anyway, direct use of MP4s saves a step.

The latest version (1.1) of the Browser handles 1920 x 1080. Vegas handles that very well.

Does NEO HD also process HDV (replacing NEO HDV)?

Serena, according to Cineform's comparison page :
http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

NEO HD offers all the features of NEO HDV with these additional features:
10-bit I/O (NEO HDV 8 bit)
1920x1080 (NEO HDV max is 1440x1080)
CineForm RAW Encoding (Windows Only) (not included with NEO HDV)

Thank you for your quick bug reports, all these issues have now been fixed. Prospect HD and NEO HD builds are up with fixes for 1920 MXFs files and weird thumbnail and exports for progressively encoded frames.

Prospect HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/ProspectHDv322b148-071217.zip
NEO HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEOHDv322b148-071217.zip

I would love feedback from those that had issues with the previous beta. I expect you will no longer have those issue, but it is nice to know for sure.

David,
Your new build cleaned up all the problems I reported(MXF converting, importing into both Premiere pro 2.0 & Vegas pro 8.0a). I'm really happy with new NEo HD. Thank you so much!!

Edit: Everting looks OK, but I edited about 2 miniuts footage in Premire pro 2.0 and exported as AVI with Cineform codec, but, the renderded video freezes after about 1 and a half miniute. I tried exporting several times, but the footage freezes at the exactly same moment.

David,
Your new build cleaned up all the problems I reported(MXF converting, importing into both Premiere pro 2.0 & Vegas pro 8.0a). I'm really happy with new NEo HD. Thank you so much!!

Edit: Everting looks OK, but I edited about 2 miniuts footage in Premire pro 2.0 and exported as AVI with Cineform codec, but, the renderded video freezes after about 1 and a half miniute. I tried exporting several times, but the footage freezes at the exactly same moment.

Hmm, there have been no code changes for export. We don't test NEO with Premiere as Aspect/Prospect is designed for that product. Can you tell be anything about the point in the timeline where it fails so we can try and repeat it here?

Hi David,

Sorry if I missed the obvious elsewhere (I did poke around your Neo site) -- will Neo HD convert the 1920x1080 35Mb HQ files, either straigth out as .mp4s, or .mxfs as converted by the Sony browser -- into a flavor that PC Avids can ingest? You might know that Avid currently limits the EX-acceptable files to the lower, SP-quality files at 35Mbs. Thanks, and congrats on your products!

Keith

Just confirmed a long export is working fine here. So please send a trouble tciket with details on your project. Submit at www.cineform.com/support. Thanks.

Hi David,

Sorry if I missed the obvious elsewhere (I did poke around your Neo site) -- will Neo HD convert the 1920x1080 35Mb HQ files, either straigth out as .mp4s, or .mxfs as converted by the Sony browser -- into a flavor that PC Avids can ingest? You might know that Avid currently limits the EX-acceptable files to the lower, SP-quality files at 35Mbs. Thanks, and congrats on your products!

Keith

Avids unfortunately have limited third codec support (by design I'm sure.) If you produce 1920x1080 CineForm MOVs, they will import into your AVID system, yet the Avid will then transcode those to DNxHD. So it will work, and the quality is fine, just slower than it would be if Avid supported playback of third party codecs.

Avids unfortunately have limited third codec support (by design I'm sure.) If you produce 1920x1080 CineForm MOVs, they will import into your AVID system, yet the Avid will then transcode those to DNxHD. So it will work, and the quality is fine, just slower than it would be if Avid supported playback of third party codecs.

Thanks for the response, David. It sounds that, if one uses Neo to convert to your flavor of 1920x1080.movs, it should work. I'll download a trial tonight or tomorrow and try, as Avid is not saying when they will support the higher rez coming out the EX-1s, and no doubt there are others who would enjoy your solution in the interim.

Keith

Thanks Keith, that is good to know.

What HDLink quality setting should I be using when converting the .mp4's? High? Medium?

What HDLink quality setting should I be using when converting the .mp4's? High? Medium?

What are your production needs. For 35Mb/s sources, High is fine, although some like Filmscan 1. Medium is not commonly used.

Hmm, there have been no code changes for export. We don't test NEO with Premiere as Aspect/Prospect is designed for that product. Can you tell be anything about the point in the timeline where it fails so we can try and repeat it here?


David, it was about 1 minuit and 20 second. I delete a clip at 1:20, and exported again, but still the image freezed at 1:20, where another clip is.

The project editing mode is 'adobe HD-SDI 1080P 24'.

David, it was about 1 minuit and 20 second. I delete a clip at 1:20, and exported again, but still the image freezed at 1:20, where another clip is.

The project editing mode is 'adobe HD-SDI 1080P 24'.

Try Prospect HD, using CineForm preset, as it works fine here.

Try Prospect HD, using CineForm preset, as it works fine here.

I just chaged video seting in exporting from "Microsoft AVI" to "Cineform HD Export", and it worked fine. The exported file size is reduced to about half. Thanks.

I just chaged video seting in exporting from "Microsoft AVI" to "Cineform HD Export", and it worked fine. The exported file size is reduced to about half. Thanks.

There is always some piece of information I forget to ask. CineForm HD Export is using our tools, when the other method is not. Our export is faster, higher quality, and more stable it seems. Glad things are now working out.

I've never used Cineform before but I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong here. I'm using the defaults for HDLink except for setting the quality to high. When I process the .mp4 files from the EX1 the resultant .avi files from HDLink are much larger than the original .mp4's. For example, 198MB to 688MB, 635MB to 1.8GB, 158MB to 703MB. Am I doing something wrong here? I thought it was supposed to produce smaller files. I also notice that I get a little static throughout the audio on the resultant .avi files. I don't hear that static when I play the raw .mp4 files. Any clues?

Travis, the files will be larger.

Cineform is essentially an intermediate codec that is intraframe wavelet-based compression (not DCT compression) that is 6:1 to 10:1 smaller than their uncompressed YUV equivalent.

The idea is we are signifantly smaller than uncompressed, while maintaining the advantages of uncompressed. Audio issues are of interest, can you please upload a sample MP4 file that does has audio problems?

My camera won't be here until next Friday or so.

I'm wondering how long it's taking to convert the .mp4 clips to Cineform using HDLink?

Can't wait to try this stuff out!

Looking forward to the Cineform SDI recording device.

It just MPEG, so about the same speed as HDV. If you PC is multi-core, and or multi-proc then faster than 1:1.

...I also notice that I get a little static throughout the audio on the resultant .avi files. I don't hear that static when I play the raw .mp4 files. Any clues?

Same story here. Also having weird audio drop-outs during playback of the timeline in CS3.

ALSO:

Today I captured about 1/2 an hour of footage on approximately 70 different clips in 1080p25HQ.

I dragged them to my PC, then told HDLink to "Open Folder" and convert them all to Cineform AVI at "High" quality, and shrink them to 720x576 for eventual DVD output.

It failed instantly and froze my computer and I had to restart.

I went back and tried it again with just two files rather than all 70, but it still froze my computer and I had to restart again. In fact any time that I tried to convert more than one file at a time, it froze and I had to restart.

Also, it would happen at random, even when converting single clips. It would sometimes freeze but the computer would be recoverable, other times, I would need to press reset.

I didn't experience one problem when doing a simple mp4 to avi conversion, so I think the trouble was the downconversion.

The only other trouble I had was the weird static audio I got in the converted files.

The downscaled video from HD to SD looked beautiful though!

David, I'm not sure how to upload a file. You mean upload it here? Is there a size limit?

To upload a file, use a free service like yousendit.com to send to my mail address, which is DNewman at cineform.com. The file will still need to be under 100MB for the free service.

Please, we need files that do this, as now of our show the problem.

I dragged them to my PC, then told HDLink to "Open Folder" and convert them all to Cineform AVI at "High" quality, and shrink them to 720x576 for eventual DVD output

....

The downscaled video from HD to SD looked beautiful though!

We will look into the scaling issue (I haven't heard this report.) Yes, our scaler is very nice quality.