I am just curious as to how many wedding videographers there are on this forum?

And would you be willing to share tips about your weddings that make you a success?

I like to think that I'm one, Ron. I just started part timing this year, and things are looking promising.

If you haven't already done so, check out www.fastforwardclub.com. Every bit as friendly and as informative as this site. These are the only two sites that I use with any regularity.

Right now in the middle of 5 straight weeks of weddings. This is our 4th wedding season.

Wedding opener from a couple weeks ago:
http://www.jetdv.com/jetdv/video/StewartHarrell.wmv

Been doing weddings for a number of years. This forum and the one that Harry mentioned are always very very helpful. Having said that now, I must depart, for a large plane awaits to whisk my wife and I to the land of paradise, but I will return in about 12 days or so and would be happy to answer questions for you that may not have already been answered. I doubt that there will be however, given the wealth of talent and knowledge here.

I can however impart this one little tidbit of information.

In the wedding video business, you must be 'lucky'.
Spell 'lucky' W O R K H A R D!
Mahalo, (I think that means goodbye in Hawaiian)
Don B

Well I guess you can count me in as well. Oddly enough I didn't set out to become a wedding videographer- I kinda fell into it. I teamed up with a friend of mine to shoot some shorts, subsequently my boss at work was getting married. We volunteered to shoot it for her as her wedding gift. Now mind you, at this time we had never seen a "professionally" produced wedding video- however I felt that helped us. We didn't follow any typical format. It was very loose and fun. The video was so well recieved we began getting paid work from it via referrals in her family. Since then we have shot 3 weddings....our 4th being tomorrow (Sat 6/21/03). Similar to Ed, we are in a flood right now (our 3rd wedding in 5 weeks). It's been taking off so quickly we decided to look seriously into this area of the video business. Most of our clients have been really young couples in their early to mid 20's so they are fond of our videography style. One wedding we opened up just like the Beastie Boys "Sabatage" video. With the grooms men wearing cheesy 70's "Kocheese" mustaches and aviator sunglasses. We had a bunch of action shots, w/ quick cuts and artistic camera angles. Basically a spoof on the actuall video. When we delivered the video and the couple and their friends watched it for the first time they were all in tears laughing so hard. The best part was we are able to balance the goofy stuff with the serious heart-felt emotion of the days events. Both the groom and the bride cried (but not from laughter, lol) in several montage sceens.

Like I said, I never sout out to do wedding videos...they sorta came to me. Though it was a blessing, it's the only lucrative area we've personally found for our work. Heck...we spent 4 months filming and 9 months in post filming a documentary and we didn't get a cent for it! Check out this link for production pics from "Eat!"
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10917

I'll try and post some of my work (dvd sleves/menus on here as well) It's alot easier than posting actual video beings I don't have webspace for it as of yet.

Here's a cover insert design I used for my first paid wedding. The photos were all stills from my camera at the time, GL-1.

http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/LazerBlueP5/cook%20wedding%20cover.jpg

Mahalo means "thank you."

Aloha means Good bye (and hello).

You hauli (how-ly) jerk means: "You're standing on my foot."

Glen nice cover what do your DVDs look like.

Thanks Ron. When you ask what my DVD's look like do you mean inserts similar to the VHS insert I posted- or do you mean DVD label. If so I don't use labels, for fear of unbalancing the disc.

PS I checked out your site- your into martial arts? Nice- ditto here. Been doing Jiu Jitsu for about 3 years now. Was training under the Rickson Gracie association for the first year. I'd love to learn a little more stand up. When I was a child I took Tang So Do, and more recently Wing Chun/Chin Na as a teen. However I wanna learn Muy Thai- thats a pretty vicious stand-up art.

Cross training is the way to go. That is what we do at RLMA. I started training when I was a child my father was my jujitsu instructor. I eventually took over his school now one of the largest schools on the gulf coast. I have two locations. I could have many more but I only sanction instructors that I have trained personally. We will have branch locations in Mississippi and North Carolina in the near future. I have been teaching for over thirty years and have had the opportunity to train with the top instructors in the world. Joe Lewis has taught seminars at our main location.

Martial arts is how I got involved in making videos. I was lucky enough to shoot a training video with Joe Lewis last year.

Two years ago I tried out for a stunt gig on a feature that was being shot on the gulf coast and got the job. Once in I not only took the falls for the other actors but I scored a part as a karate guy and I choreographed all the fight scenes in the movie.

The movie is a b flick at Hollywood video nationwide. If you like crappy movies with good fight scenes rent “This Darkness” at Hollywood video.

One of the scenes was shot in my studio. If nothing else you will get a laugh out of it. Scense then I have made a lot of MA Training videos, wedding videos, three TV Commercials, and one talk show.

I have been contacted to do more choreography for another made for video release soon to be shot in Florida and a beer commercial in Texas.

Wow, very cool. It must be nice making a living doing something you love. Isn't that everyone's dream. Congrats!

I'll keep an eye out for that video. That reminds me, me and a friend are filming a short this summer that has a spoof fight sceen between a kid and the main character which is in his mid 20's. Anyway it's sorta goofy but the actual movement and fighting positions will be accurate. We are gonna try and recruit my old Wing Chun teacher to choreograph.

Do you have any work you could post on the net. I'd love to see some of it.

Yes Glen I do consider myself lucky...

but it is not all fun and games. Making a living teaching Martial Arts is a lot of work. My day starts at 9:00 am and runs till 9:00 pm. My students expect a lot from me like never being sick or late and always following thru on any program or plan. I just started taking Fridays of for the first time since taking over the school. And some students just don’t understand that I would actually want a day off.

Don’t get me wrong I am not complaining I would not have it any other way. I can’t think of anything I would rather do except maybe direct movies and then I would still want to have my schools. If you would like to see some short clips of a self defense video that I made you can go to my web site and click the get password link. I have some videos there for my students.

Make sure you put who you are and why you are requesting a password because this is a locked section for my students only.

I would like to post some of my other stuff but I am not really sure how or where to put it.

I do not manage my web site that is done by someone else. And I don’t want to post my just for fun stuff there anyway. I am having a wedding site built just for my wedding business.

I've done a couple of weddings, and I hate them. The end product came out good, but they are boring to attend, I am forced to dress up (bleh), and take forever to edit. I don't think I could ever do it as a profession. I want a job that I like. Even though I love working with video, I can't stand dealing with someone else's weddings.

Oh Curt it isn't that bad. Granted the receptions can run very long but it's not bad- especially if the couple has a table in a corner for you and your assistant. We shot a wedding last night as a matter of fact- by the end of the night I had a splitting headache and I wanted to go home in the worst way. They can be alot of work, and in the video business weddings are the most challenging.....one shot one take...end of story. If you don't get your shot it's gone. In addition to taht depending on the video they can take more than a month in post- however I find it quite rewarding. As for me I'm in my mid 20's and feel a bit of accomplishment starting a business that (at the moment) seems to be thriving. That's what drives me. I'm not necissarily passionate about wedding videography per'say, though I must say I enjoy the clients reactions when the DVD is first delivered and watched.

Ron, I'll have to check that out. I have a few clips from recent wedding I shot I'd love to share with you all but I don't have the means to get it online. I'm looking for someone with webspace and a little bit of band-width. Even if it's just posted for a week.
If not I should have a site before the end of the summer.

Ed Trox is the man. He uploaded one of my clips from an opening of a recent wedding video I shot on my DVX100- check it out @
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11150

Thanks ED!

Curt when I video a wedding I make it a basic documetary of the day and after the main shots at the reception, cutting cake and all that stuff I leave. I tell them that up front.That is what alot of wedding photographers do too. I think after the main stuff has happened they don't really want cameras pointing at them anyway and if they do they will pay extra. Videotaping a wedding can be a pain and like Glen said you only get one shot at it. But then again it's not bad money and for someone just starting out it's a way to get some exprience.

I agree with Bob, however some of the "main" shots occure LATE into the night. The wedding this saturday was a good example. Reception started at 5 but the formal introductions of the bridal party , ect didn't start till close to 6:30 (after "coctail hour"). And the cake cut, we had to wait till darn near the end of the night till they did that. At that point we had gotten the toast, first dance, parents' dances, regular (fast) dance footage, bouque and garder, and guest interviews done for over an hour before they even started getting ready to do the cake cut. It goes along with the job I suppose. Some businesses charge on an hourly basis- we don't. We charge a flat fee and stay as long as we need to get the shots we need. Maybe we should go by the hourly basis- If we did I'm sure we'd net more profit beings 99% of weddings never go exactly on schedule. ;)

Glen I just watched your video I think it was great, good cam work, good timing.

I have a few questions.

1 Do you start your wedding movie (I call them movies) with a montage or doses that take place later.

The reason I ask is that I started with a montage recently the couple loved it but they wanted to come at the end. It seams they felt that it gave away the drama that builds up to the first kiss.


2 Do you go into documentary mode or is the whole thing dreamy.

I have done both and I really can’t decide which one I like best. I usually end with some type of montage unless it is just a real cheap wedding. (Cheap as in how much I am getting paid. I have done weddings were the photographer gets $2500 and I got paid $350. I don’t do that anymore.)

Ron, I'm glad you liked it- thanks.

1. That particular clip WAS the beginning of a recent wedding video. I usually do start with an opening montage, saving some good sceens for later. Unless a client is very specific as to the pacing and the placement of certain footage and montages I go with whatever I feel best fits. Most of the time couples don't know what they want beings they haven't been exposed to as many weddings and wedding videos as the average videographer.
Is this something the client told you after the fact? If so there's really nothing much you can do other than periodicaly giving them a call to run it by them before continuing the edit.

2. Depends on what the clients ask for. Some prefer the video journalist style while other favor heavily the dreamy montages set to music. Usually clients prefer the latter. For example the wedding you saw the clip of almost the entire wedding was done in a series of montages, however not quite like the one you saw with the soft focus and all. The only natural audio/non-montage style footage is the vows, formal entrances to the reception, toast/blessing, and bridal party interviews. The rest and I mean everything was one long string of musical montages- even including her walking down the isle. I ran it by the bride, of course, before hand because I liked the way the montage of the church was comming out and wanted to extend it throughout the ceremony. The bride sounded excited and asked that I continue the montage, and that hearing the natural ogran music, "Here comes the bride" wasn't necissary. I really liked how it came out- very dramatic. I really should execute disgression calling it all montages because by definition that could mean lots of random shots sewn together. I guess calling them slow sequences would be more appropriate- because the only actual "montages" I use are at the beginning for the opening (like you saw) and the highlight montage at the end with shots going throughout the entire day- like a recap. Depending on the package I also incorporate the traditional moving photograph picture montage, and bridal party credits which is very popular, kinda like the beginning of a sitcom.

Regarding pricing- yeah I learned real quick not to under-charge my clients. Afterall it's dozens of man-hours behind the computer capturing, editing, encoding, and authoring. If I break it down after the money is divided between me and my partner I only make roughly minimum wage- though it's still worth it because I do enjoy editing quite a bit and I only get better. I look forward to progressing my shooting and editing skills to such a degree I can start aiming at a higher demographic of clientel. For example "www.momentsinmotion.com" charges $10,000 for their top package. Probably higher than any wedding videography business I've seen in town or on the net! However their work is absolutly top notch. Granted even top notch work might not get them gigs charging such an absorbanent fee however I'd have to assume they are located in a higher income area and appeal to the demographic of clientel than can afford to spend such an amount on your services. Heck, I'd rather do 4 weddings a year @ 10k a pop than 40 weddings @ 1k. Though like I said I'm a far ways off from making that bold of a step in pricing...lol, I'd have to live in Beverly Hills to warrant that sort of price-tag.
So yeah that's a very important thing to keep in mind. Know what your clientel is willing to pay- never undercharge. Your work will speak for itself and your pricetag should fit accordingly. On the same token, obviously, always offer 110%. Always go above and beyond the competition. Thus the prime reason we don't charge an hourly rate- we stay however long it takes to get the shots we need at no additional premium cost. Clients are always appreciative of that.
Oh and I hear you regarding the inexpensive packages. If someone is only willing to spend, say, $500 then I wouldn't spend hour upon hours designing carfully timed montages to music, with lots of video effects and rendering time. However it is nice to offer a baseline package so that you can still appeal to couples that simply can't afford the higher priced ones. Besides a lot of "professional" wedding videographers do very cookie-cutter weddings by default and you pay their premium for it.

Glenn I try to get with the wedding photographer and alot of them don't want to hang out all night. If you get a good one then they will direct things so the shots happen pretty fast. Now if I was charging $10,000 I'd stay all night with the bride and groom!! But I'm new to the business so I charge alot less.
I do like your montage idea. On the last wedding I did I took some of the video I didn't use and editted it then put it to music. They really like that part of the video. My main goal in a wedding video is to show what happened on their wedding day and to make it move along so they can show their friends, family the video and not bore them to death.

Glen yes when the groom saw the montage it confused him and he just couldn’t understand why he was seeing the end before the wedding even started.

I told him that it was just something I was trying out then I moved it to the end of the movie and he loved it.

Sometimes you can be too creative I guess.

Anyway after that I started calling the bride and groom and having them come in to my studio and watching the movie straight from my computer.

If they have any comments about it I can fix it and then when it is delivered it is exactly what they want.

Bob I know what you are saying about the photographer they can be a lot of help or a real pain.

I try to get with them as soon as they get there introduce myself and let them know that I am easy to work with.

In not so many words I let them know that I also am on the job.

In my contract I make it the bride and grooms responsibility to let the photographer know that they expect cooperation from the photographer and the videographer to work together.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ron Little :
Anyway after that I started calling the bride and groom and having them come in to my studio and watching the movie straight from my computer.

If they have any comments about it I can fix it and then when it is delivered it is exactly what they want. -->>>

Oh man- I couldn't do that! It'd ruin it- the best part about delievering the final product is that they haven't seen any of it yet....and that it's a complete suprise. Though in your case I can understand how it could have been helpfull.

Glen what doses it ruin?

I have a nice office with a big screen TV we kick back, watch the movie and I get to see how they react to what I have done.

I think it helps me tweak my style.

Actually most of the time they love it and I have a cam handy so they can do a testimonial for my work. The testimonials go over well with other couples who want to see some of my work.

My wife and I enjoy their reactions so much that we are building a new edit bay that includes a viewing lounge complete with a kitchen for refreshments.

Doses anyone shoot weddings in 16x9 mode?

I know of a few videographers from other forums that do. If your interested I can link you to some of their work- it's absolutly amazing. Hence the fact they can charge in the upwards of 5-8k a wedding.
www.cmvideography.com is one of them.
His work is by far the best I've seen from a wedding videographer online! His work inspires me!!

As for me I've never done so beings I shoot along side of a XL-1s and our 16x9 modes are quite different. The DVX100's is just masked to 16x9, not true anamorphic. Though I'd still love to shoot a wedding in that mode. I like the composition of 16x9. Seems easier to frame things up and make the composition more interesting.

Regarding showing the video to the client prior to delievery isn't actually a bad idea. It ensures they get exactly what they want out of the video and shows them that you are very flexable and receptive. I thought you might have meant you'd periodically show them sequences as you were editing. Maybe you meant you show them the tentative finished product and ask if they need anything tweaked. It's great for customer service however it scares me at the possible prospect of getting a bride that keeps changing her mind.

Glen,

Most WEVA videographers do not allow the B&G to have any say in the final video. Mainly, I'd say, because of the opportunity for the BFH to keep on changing stuff forever.

I like to give them the final cut and then disappear. Always get compliments. I change my style a little bit with each wedding but mostly documentary but with a bit of dreamy editing. I always try to have a somewhat fancy opening that is done in After Effects.

Few brides in my neck of the woods have the $ for the fancy weddings and coverage. They are happy just to have the whole thing on tape.

I always shoot 3 cameras if I can.

1 main at the rear and locked down.
1 roaming for cutaways
1 behind the officiant if possible. I get great B&G footage that way and the 3rd camera footage (a small PC110) is easy to integrate as PIP or cutaway.

Mike, yeah that was my exact concern regarding going about it that way.
Speaking of After Effects- what sorts of effects DO you do with it in regards to wedding videography?

I use it for the photmontages. A lot of control and I can reuse the layout and move things around for another wedding if I wish.

I've now done three wedding videos where the first thing you see is a picture of the facility (these were wineries, etc.) which zoom-swaps with a slide-up of the wedding invitation. Then I cut a 'hole' in the invitation with a mask to show the Bride and Father walking in. Frequently, since I've done all my weddings outdoors, the background isn't that great but by default is included in the shot. Or they walk down a veranda surrounded by 'stuff'. I sort of tunnel them through that with the mask.

Sometimes I'll do some complicated masking with something made in photoshop.

All of my titles are made in Photoshop or Illustrator and frequently dropped in to AE when I want to spin them or do something special. The 2.5 D aspect of AE works well here. Also I can cast a light beam through colored glass/windows onto another surface that has the titles or I can cast light through the titles and onto another surface. With fog I can even get that light-beam through the dust motes effect if I need to.

Once in a while I'll try for a lumikey effect in AE but RexEdit normally does it better. Really good for those times when the windows get blown out. I just lumikey them away and replace them with a still or a video loop of the same scene with the exposure set for the windows. A little bit of masking and I have a good exposure both inside and outside.

The last wedding I did (am editing now) I covered the Shower for both the Bride and Groom. Starts out with a shot of the moon that night with rings circling the moon. The plane of the rings makes them go behind the moon (they are tilted back about 44 degrees). The rings slow down and reveal their name which stops bottom dead center. The other words, which are at about 75% opacity are make one more revolution and stop top dead center and as they do so, come to 100% opacity, partially obscured by the moon. Then both text strings start to rotate slowly so you can read them in motion. They read: Ron & Julie . . . Are gonna get married. As they continue to rotate the Shower invitation rises to cover everything.

Kitsch but they will like it a lot.

This is a second marriage for both and they are very casual about the whole thing. The marriage ceremony was short and the party was the real celebration.

Charles, RFLMAO!! That's not what that says...

Any weddings are hardwork just liek everyone has said, but what isn't? I must admit it is not as rewarding as I thought it would be, but it can be fun.

Sounds pretty imaginative Mike! Wish I could see samples- do you have a site?
Also, regarding animating photos you should check out Vegas's pan/crop tool- it's eons better than Premiere's Motion tool and probably easier to use than AE. Thats the single most favorite feature of the NLE so far!!!! I was going to buy Canopus's program that specialized in animating photos but there's no need for it now!

Basically, if it isn't real real time and really reliable I don't even take a second look at the product. Right now I do believe there still isn't anything on the market for DV that is as capable and reliable as the Canopus products. I've had 4 good years with what I have while the rest of the world has gone through many many iterations and still aren't any better than Canopus, if that.

Mind you, this is for my style of editing and for my customers.

I like the reliabilty and real real-time of DVRexRT. Going back to a rendering system would seem like chosing a horse to ride on the freeway.

Pan and crop aren't enough for me. I want tilt, wheeze and whallop all in one package. The Canopus picture tool is useless to me until it can do multiple pictures from within RexEdit or Edius.

I generally avoid putting samples up on my web site. If I have a potential client that wants a demo reel, I normally cook one up specifically for them out of chunks of past work.

When I do the camera seminar, I'll show some work.

Glen I don’t show them anything until I am thru with the edit.

I let them have some say in the final product it makes them feel like they are part of the creative process.

In my contract I specify that they can come in for one, one hour session before I finalize, but any additional sessions are sixty dollars an hour and quite frankly I will take sixty dollars an hour for as many hours as they want.

So far any changes have been small. Most people say they love what I have done, it looks like something that should be on TV and they can hardly wait to get home so they can show their friends.

Thanks for the link I wish I had a fast connection so I could watch some of these videos without having to wait an hour to download them. (Not available in my area yet)

Glen,

Maybe when I get a breather after next month, I can prepare some small samples for people to look at.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus :
Pan and crop aren't enough for me. I want tilt, wheeze and whallop all in one package. The Canopus picture tool is useless to me until it can do multiple pictures from within RexEdit or Edius.

-->>>

The Pan and Crop CAN do it all! It can rotate, zoom, pan, etc. Though- it doesn't work through RexEdit or Edius.


Ron, wait till you see the clip at www.cmvideography.com- he's, by far, the best wedding videographer on the planet! Don't believe me- take a look for yourself. The guy is making 6 digits doing this stuff!

The last wedding I did the bride ask a week after the wedding if they could have all the uneditted video tape! I told them they only get the tapes and the DVD after I'm done with all edits. If I put my name at the end I don't want people to see the bad shots and say that guy wasn't to good. That's one of the great things about a editting progam you can take out the part when you forgot to shut off the record button.

None of you would give the couple a uneditted tape would you?

Give them the tapes heck no!


I will sell them my unedited tapes.

In my agreement they can buy the original tapes for $25 each I usually shoot at least six tapes. That just puts more money in the pile.

I want them to buy Tapes DVDs CD picture disk any thing that brings in more moola.

I am in this business to make money so I can buy cool equipment to play with.

Remember it is not just DV it is an addiction. (LOL)

I'm with you Ron. What if i gave them or even sold them the tape. They show it to family members who then might not buy a DVD or tape. But if they see a real nice DVD they might buy one. I think they heard the word 'edit' and thought they were getting short changed.

Bob didn’t you say you use a documentary style approach to your movies?

I would like to hear more about that if you could expound on that

I've given a slightly edited copy of the raw footage to a friend for whom I did the wedding. I don't ever give away the original camera tape except for a work-for-hire job.

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles Newcomb : Mahalo means "thank you."

Aloha means Good bye (and hello).

You hauli (how-ly) jerk means: "You're standing on my foot." -->>>


Since we're trying to get this right...

a haole is a white person. (not hauli).

On another note... I am thinking of going to the WEVA convention next month... anyone else going?

I am not sure about going to WEVA convention.

I am going to open myself up for a punch here but I am not sure it is worth the money.

I have viewed a number of WEVA members videos that really were not that good.

I recently viewed a video made in 2003 by one of the speakers at this years WEVA convention and it really lacked originality the endless fades and poor choice of music would put you to sleep in no time.

If you don’t have a clue about how to get started then it will probably do you some good but, if you are a creative editor that knows your software and people like your work you may be better off being an original than one of the followers. If you need inspiration watch wedding TV.

Just my opinion I could be wrong.
(I do stay booked year around because people like my work.)

Ron do you have a website for the Wedding videos you do- if not do you have any clips to share. I'd love to see some of your work, as with anyone else on here that has the means to post. Thanks!

If you are curious about the WEVA convention, first try out one of their 'Town Meetings.' I went to one and then decided that NAB was better for looking at equipment.

I find many of the WEVA folks to be great but there is this undercurrent of pomposity that is very similar to the view of the world that some PPA-types exude. I understand that to charge a lot of money for a video, one has to have a good bedside manner. But some of it "fair puts me off," as my Engish friends would say.

I too think some of the work is just terrible. About on the level of a first effort by a beginning student.

No wedding website it is still under construction. I will post it as soon as it is up.

I am so busy it is not a big priority right now.

As soon as things slow down I will get back on it.

Well, I guess I got sucked in by the menu of events.

It appears to be a very good and full schedule, covering many topics of interest to me... and although I may not like the finished product - some of the techniques should be interesting.

I made my flight reservations a little while ago, so I guess I'm in.

I hope it will be worth my time and expense!

Doug have fun I will be glade to hear what you learn from it.

Could be a nice vacation.

I have been to a lot of seminars.

I always learn something even if it is that I won’t do that again.

Thanks, Ron.

Yeah, that's kinda the way I was looking at it... a vacation at the worst... and I should manage to learn something, so it can't be all bad...

Come to think of it... I've been to some seminars that I walked away knowing what NOT to do!