Hey, I remember reading something from someone awhile ago about how they have a fake gun in public making a video or something, and he ended up getting fined like $700, that had me thinking. I'm going to be doing the driveby stuff of this stupid short this week (i'm doing some of the stuff today), and we are planning on using a airsoft BB gun. I'm wondering if anyone would call the cops because they think it's real or whatever reason, and if the cops do get called out, what would happen? It would be pretty stupid if we got screwed over a airsoft BB gun.

I've only made one video where the cops weren't involved, and it was in the middle of the night. On one of them, a bank called the cops because we were on their property skating (because it was a part of the video, it was a ad for some crap we had to do for school, a soft drink that made you do everything better) and the cop guy came out and was all cool about it, he seen my camera and crap and just told us to keep off their property, and that was fine. Then was when I got in the crap with the mall cops....so I don't know if that chain will keep continuing, heh.

I would make a phonecall to your local police, notifying them that you are going to make a video involving a fake driveby shooting. Tell them where and when this is going to happen, so that if they get a call from some bypasser, they will know that it´s just a videoshoot. Hopefully, they´ll just be glad that you show some responsibility, but there would be a risk that they won´t let you do it, or that they need the notice some time in advance or something. I really don´t know what the rules are in the US, but I would give it a try, it´s far better than getting fined anyway.

At the shoot, have the camera visibly displayed, and you could also have the rest of the crew hanging around, so that bypassers won´t easily mistake you guys for scary criminals with a real gun.

Alex,

Laws for each State, and countries for that matter, are all different. As far as I know, as long as you notify the police of what you are going to be doing, and also notifying the people in the area, you shouldn't have a problem.

Several years ago, some young guy was running from the police, here in Vancouver. It was night time (and dark). The police told him to stop and turn around. He did, with a large cell phone in his hand. One cop shot the teenager dead before the teenager could say boo. So contacting the police would be a healthy idea.

I do a lot of shooting where acting students are staging a scene from a movie as their final acting project. Many chose scenes with weapons.

We've found that just informing the local police doesn't go far enough. Whenever we use (always fake) weapons outside the studio, we put up signs stating that this is a student film project. We also get PERMISSION from each merchant that might be effected by our presence.

This reduces the problems one always can have with the one or two officers that weren't paying attention during lineup and/or didn't read the day's event sheet.

It only takes one to screw up your life.

Personally, I'd somehow disable the BB gun. If you can, wrap a bit of blue tape around the butt of the gun too. That frequently signifies a checked and safe gun at a range or SWAT exercise. The local PD can tell you what color to use.

Better yet, paint up a length of broomstick, use it quickly for the shot and then put it on the floor of the vehicle. Doesn't look like a gun. And tell the actors to drop all items that look even somewhat like guns if they even think the police are around. And keep their hands visible.

Today it's just fundamental safety.

We all know people who have been raided by cops because they had fake guns. It's a bad experience. The guy I know had his house raided because his neighbours saw him rehearshing inside his house through a window. Go above board, dude.

Ouch, that doesn't sound too good. I don't want to get into any trouble like that.

We should make big signs and put them around eh? We decided to do this in a park behind a school, where no one is ever at, so that might help...

I once took a picture of a trainstation that wasn't completed yet. After 3 minutes there was this guy complaining about me being on industrial private property. Then had to hear his story about me being very lucky that he was surveilling because his collegues would probably have called the cops and I would have ended up in jail for photographing and being on private property without permission. Not to mention that my camcorder would have been taken...

The guy itself wasn't soo bad after all, but things are sometimes so overreacted upon.

I dunno what would happen if you're running out with a soft bb gun and a bag over your head, but you'll probably face lifetime impisonment. Not to mention that your cam will probably being beaten to tiny peaces :)

There was an amateur/independent film production in Canada a while back where a couple of guys utilized fake guns including a huge rifle made out of plastic and PVC pipe. The crew forgot to inform the local police about it and the crew soon found themselves on the floor surrounded by the SWAT team. You can see some video here about this (http://www.rewindvideo.com/2003/watch_various.shtml) click on INFINITI BUST at the bottom of the page. You probably have to hit SAVE TARGET AS... in order for it to work right.

The good thing is that this incident generated A LOT of media attention and they soon found themselves selling their film product like hotcakes.

On another note, today I was helping a production company stage their big gunfight scene in downtown Brownsville, Texas, (a Mexican border town) and there were guys running around with rifles and guns like they owned the place. The locals didn't mind it--I guess they are used to seeing it like this on the other side of the border...and the cops enjoyed watching the production...especially since there was an endless supply of donuts.

Make the movie you want to make, but be sure to notify the cops beforehand. Most cops won't mind sticking around--just be sure to give them some food:)

Heh, good advice thanks.

Too bad my cousin just got fired from his job at a gas station (for punching some moron that came in there), because there was a krispy kream (cream?) donuts place inside of it, and he used to give away all of the donuts that were never sold everyday, and there would usually be like 4-6 big boxes he could take for free, I bet cops would love that, heh..

Nick,

Were you involved in the making of The Alamo? Or the making of the web site?

Both:)

Well, now...I'm intrigued. As a Texan and film buff, I'd love to know more about this film and what you did or are doing. Would you mind opening a thread and telling us more?

There was an amateur/independent film production in Canada a while back where a couple of guys utilized fake guns including a huge rifle made out of plastic and PVC pipe. The crew forgot to inform the local police about it and the crew soon found themselves on the floor surrounded by the SWAT team.

I seem to recall something about this on the news a while back. Did this happen in Vancouver?

Yes, I believe it was Vancouver....

Sure, I'll get an ALAMO thread going.

It was me who got fined for the fake guns...

But umm they were real guns... just not in working order, was not a fun day to say the least.

Zac

So far as carrying, It really depends on the juristiction. In places like Arizona where it's legal to carry a side arm, it's no sweat. In Canada or Britain no one is allowed to carry at all and it's instant Tactical Team if a handgun or restricted weapon is spotted. It's illegal to carry a reproduction of one as well.
In Barrie, Ontario someone was thought to have a hand gun and they responded by bringing in the Tactical Team and had my street sealed off for hours. It's really not a good idea, in fact post 9-11 it's not a good idea anywhere, but that's just my opinion.

I used to shoot match rifle and one of my rifles was a tad futuristic looking. Some one thought it was a fully automatic assault rifle and that was a problem.

So far as pointing anything or swinging any toy or real gun around, Mike is right on. Ask for permission, notify police , post the area and have tight controls.

People that use a real weapon follow a very strict safety protocol.

Never carry a loaded weapon unless you intend to use it.

Never point a weapon unless you intend to shoot.

A police officer seeing anyone with anything resembling a weapon , with a closed action, a finger on the trigger and pointing at someone is liable to shoot with justification. This is the post 9 / 11 world we live in and it's getting worse.

And always treat any firearm as if it were loaded... even when you know it isn't. Assume it's loaded all the time... even when you know it isn't. Always to check to see that it's not loaded... even when you know it isn't.

And I think the lesson of this thread is to always coordinate with local authorities whenever your production calls for a firearm, fake or real, out in public.

I guess the worse part is the pointing of the weapon and pretense of shooting, breaks every rule in the book. Unless this is critical,(and i doubt it is) I just wouldn't attempt this one, especially with your intimate relationship with the Canton Police.

In Canada it is illegal to carry a firearm openly (or concealed) for that matter. Either it is secured in your residence or car as you are on the way to the range or into the wilderness. I believe technically if you are going to have firearms in a film shoot, you have to hire a licensed weaponsmaster, especially when firearms are being discharged (blanks).

As for reproductions, sales of Airsoft (realistic plastic BB firing) guns became more tightly regulated after September 11th. Replicas shipped after that time came with red plastic tips to identify them as 'toys'.

When I did my music video shoot last year I purchased two replicas from an Airsoft player at a local warehouse where a game was in session. When I arrived, police were busting someone for tresspassing outside the warehouse as I parked. We actually conducted the deal within sight of the police and their dogs as they were questioning their suspect. This was just outside the warehouse where, if you bothered to look in through the window, you could see several 'heavily armed' guys in camo attacking each other with replicas of assault rifles and submachineguns. Very surreal. But obviously the police knew this place existed and tolerated it because it was fairly isolated from public view.

Even if the police are fairly sure they are arriving at a filming scene, they may bust you because they were rousted out of their regular routine and are pissed off about filing a report.

There have been two well-known instances in Vancouver where police have shot and killed people when they thought they were being threatened with a weapon. In one instance they were serving a warrant on a known felon when he answered the door with a TV remote in his hand. They shot him instantly. In the second instance, they had received a narcotics tip and entered a family home. In the basement they found a boy who was target shooting with a pellet gun and under cloudy circumstances fatally shot him.

Hey Keith- Just completely off topic... Did you once say you did Director, and 3D games?

In one instance they were serving a warrant on a known felon when he answered the door with a TV remote in his hand. They shot him instantly.

Was that the kid in North Vancouver a few years ago? If that was the one, the kid didn't have a record, as I recall, and the police had the wrong address. I believe it's in the courts still. The family is going after legal compensation as well as a wrongful death thing. It was on the news quite a bit.

Alex, have you thought of getting a job at Hoover? I noticed that your city houses the head office. They make mighty fine vacuum cleaners.

Let's not freak out, man. I run an airsoft event with 100 players and no problems. Hunters carry guns everywhere and gun shops abound. These stories you hear are freak happenings.

Just notify the local police station. Ask them if there would be any problem. Bring the gun with you (in an enclosed case, of course). Don't bring it in until you explain what you want to do.

Don't make a big hairy deal out of it. When you're getting ready to shoot, don't cover it up or hide it in any way. Be obvious. If you think it'll only be a few minutes, the cops might even send a car over to sit with you till your done.

About treating a "weapon" as if its loaded all the time, I wouldn't classify this BB gun as a "weapon", seriously. I can shoot myself in the leg like 20 times repeatedly with it, and it pretty much just leaves some bruses and stings. It doesn't even use c02 or "green gas", its just spring loaded.

Frank, hoover employs a lot of people around here, infact my grandma is retired from there after working there for pretty much of her life. The main place is in North Canton, and we go past it on a regular basis, I don't think I could get a job there though, lol.

Oh yeah, the other thing I wanted to ask you guys, is...

Is a school playground/park private property?

Thats where we are shooting this, and I don't know if school grounds is "private property" or not....


I'm so f'n paranoid about shooting this now. I just keep having these images of a cop "rollin up in there" and us (or our parents) getting fined some big time money or something.

<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Forman : Hey Keith- Just completely off topic... Did you once say you did Director, and 3D games? -->>>

Director, yes. A long time ago. I haven't touched it since v4 because I immediately went into 3D after my brush with authoring. I modelled 3D for games and then for TV and film. Now I'm basically a generalist. If you want to know more you can email me.

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : Let's not freak out, man. I run an airsoft event with 100 players and no problems. Hunters carry guns everywhere and gun shops abound. These stories you hear are freak happenings. -->>>

Every city is different with different attitudes of law enforcement. In Missouri people may carry around firearms openly but not where I live. I brought up the two incidents that I can remember that ended in fatalities. But that is not to say you or I would appreciate very much being arrested (if only temporarily) and having our EQ impounded and shoot suspended because a passerby freaked out and dialed 911. Never underestimate how stupid people can be. At the same time, film locations are not always obvious. I walked onto a Stargate:SG1 set once after wondering why the people standing in the open park seemed a bit 'off'. Well, it turns out I walked onto another planet and no PA had intercepted me in time.

I'm not sure if I could think of a worse place to film a short with guns than the school yard! Being involved in soccer for a number of years (25!), we needed permission from the school and school system to use their fields for practice. You might get away with it, but I wouldn't want my parents reading in the paper the next day that their son was arrested for bringing a weapon on school grounds! You might be your own 'movie of the week'.

I think if you put up signs in a public park and shot early in the morning - or better yet, find a back yard of one of your friends where there are trees in the background so it doesn't look like a backyard, you'll be in better shape.

It took me months to find the right location for my nine minute short (that was turned down for every festival entered!). Sometimes it falls into place, and other times . . . !

Good luck. I would seriously not bring a gun (bb, water pistol, or anything!) onto school grounds.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger :
Is a school playground/park private property?-->>>

It is municipal property. Technically, you need permission from the school board to shoot on there.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger : About treating a "weapon" as if its loaded all the time, I wouldn't classify this BB gun as a "weapon", seriously. I can shoot myself in the leg like 20 times repeatedly with it, and it pretty much just leaves some bruses and stings. It doesn't even use c02 or "green gas", its just spring loaded. -->>>

I've been shot by a BB .. in the ass :)

Well, Alex, the thing is a cop doesn't have time to see whether it's a replica or not. He just sees the gun shape and acts accordingly. If one shows up, do what he says.

Also, you have to be careful about what you say too as you are discussing your shoot. If someone overhears you saying: "oh, and remember to bring the replica GUNS to the school tonight" some people may only hear GUNS and decide to do their civic duty.

Alrighty, thanks.

Eh, schools been out for a while and no ones there. I plan on having the prop gun hidden away until we have to do the scene, and then it will only be out for like 3 minutes tops, before it goes back away...

"Let's not freak out, man. I run an airsoft event with 100 players and no problems. Hunters carry guns everywhere and gun shops abound."

In some juristictions , yes they do. every state is different and Canada and the UK are extremely tight with their gun control. let's not debate the relative merits as each state and country have their own special reasons.

"These stories you hear are freak happenings."

Not where I live they're not. lets remember we're counselling a 14 year old here. The further north you go the stiffer the gun laws.

For the record I have served in the military and have been active in competition shooting. I still own several match weapons. Gun safety is a very real issue especially since 9 / 11.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger : About treating a "weapon" as if its loaded all the time, I wouldn't classify this BB gun as a "weapon", seriously. I can shoot myself in the leg like 20 times repeatedly with it, and it pretty much just leaves some bruses and stings. It doesn't even use c02 or "green gas", its just spring loaded.

Alex, eyes and ears have been lost to just that type of BB gun. That clasifies it as a weapon. I used to bust poker chips at 20 feet with one. That's a fair amount of power.

I'm sorry, but if you have that attitude towards that weapon, you shouldn't be using it. No smiley face.

Alex,

I shot an indie feature a couple of years ago in New York in which we used airsoft guns as props. They work great. You can put some talc in the barrel and get a little muzzle smoke in the shot. The gas powered ones are the best because the action cycles just like the real thing. Infinitely smarter than dealing with blank firing real guns, especially on a budget. Everything else you can do in post (muzzle flash, casing, etc.). The advice you have gotten about contacting the local police is good and you should take it. Just remember that several agencies may be responsible for the area you are shooting in and just because you informed one agency doesn't mean the cops that roll up on your shoot are going to know what's going on. Cops will kill you. Signs are a very good idea, and also, if you are shooting at night make sure you have very obvious C-stands and lighting rigs. If it is during the day, make your diffusers, bounce cards, etc. really obvious. I would definitely NOT shoot a scene that involves a "gun" guerrilla style. The more people and gear you have on hand, the more obvious it is going to be that it is a film shoot. Also, I would find another venue. Guns and schools, bad idea. Just my $0.02

Good luck,

~Brad

What I'm trying to downplay is the "much ado about nothing" attitude. Sure, bad things have happened to careless people. So don't be careless. Contact the school board or principal and ask permission. Then tell the cops what you want to do and that the school gave permission. No big deal. As a 14-year old, it might be better to get your dad to request those permissions so you'll be taken more seriously.

BTW, airsoft guns use plastic bb's and are nowhere near as painful as those metal bb airguns. Also, no, we don't walk openly with guns down here.

You can easily cause serious damage to your eye if you got an Airsoft shot to the face. I'm sure you know that; just pointing it out to everybody else. Obviously if you use Airsoft guns in a shoot you should take every precaution to make sure it is unloaded (still stray pellets can be caught up in the mechanism) and make sure people treat it as if it were a real weapon.

- no horseplay
- guns are secured between shots / scenes

There are courses you can take that that are geared toward gun safety in shoots that not only teach you safety but also teach non-gun owners how real weapons are wielded to make your shoot more realistic. There is one in Vancouver where they actually teach participants basic CQB (close quarter battle) scenarios.

Just some good news, we finished shooting it, and there were even people (teachers and stuff) inside of the school, and some were watching us the whole time. It only took us about 20-30 minutes to knock pretty much everything out, we were rushing, and of course, rushing is bad, it makes you forget stuff. Rushing caused us to forget the equipment we needed to make it look like he gets shot, so he just had to act it out hoping I could add something in editing, and hopefully I can.

It's going to be a completely retarded video, I looked rediculous, heh.

Look forward to it.

That's good to hear.

Eh, I just got done reviewing all the stuff, rushing is bad once again, lots of bad shots, on top of that my LCD is bad and even if it was working properly it was too bright outside to see it, so I had trouble properly exposing stuff. AE = BAD.

As long as my editing is good, it can still be pretty funny.

Glad no one got arrested or hurt!!! Good luck with the editing!