Hey Joey,

I can't say what pro video school looks like, but I can say what a pro audio school gets you:

Nothing.

You graduate with a piece of paper that gives you the possiblity of applying for non-paying internships that *might* turn into paying work after six months of sweeping floors, making coffee, and doing donut runs.

Meanwhile, the school gets to finance all its fancy equipment with student tuition.

Don't get me wrong- the schools are serious and the students learn a LOT that they might otherwise never be exposed to. But the internet, low costs of getting your own equipment, and the sheer value of experience that you can only get from living with your camera all tend to outweigh the film school route in my mind.

Unless you need that piece of paper to try and get into the industry. If so... go for it.

Take care,
Chris

Robert M Wright,

My interest is in Filmaking. For the past 4 years I have been studying Film Theory. I wanted to learn film as a text and understand what is applied in Cinema before I get into production. However that never stopped me of playing around with the camera and so forth and creating shorts. The amount of knowledge I have gained from Film Studies is extremely rewarding for my future in film production.

I suggested to go do a MA for 2 years at Film school. That's around 60 000$ - thats' a little too much.. let me correct that THAT"S ALOT!!!! :)

However attending Film School you can create contacts that's really what I am interested in. I was told that's a rewarding feature you receiving while in film school.

I am confident I dont need 2 years of film school. I learn pretty quick, im constantly reading, the techinique you can learn pretty quick because practise makes perfect, however the theory it can take you forever to learn because you can agree or disagree with it or not even understand it..

I have been thinkin about this non stop for the past 2 weeks - I need to be sure what I do by the end of the summer!

Keep the post coming people :)
Joey!!!

I think there are several different kinds of learning. There's what I'd call "perceptual learning" which is learning about the process and values "Is this a good photograph? What would make it better?" and there's "procedural learning" "What do I do to make a photograph?" Mentors teach the former while schools teach the latter. The one advantage of training in a formal setting is that it gives you a much greater chance of encountering a mentor. But there's no guarantee that will take place in a formal program, it's just the odds are better since you're operating in a community of like-minded people.

For procedural learning, OTOH, I think of formal schools as being unecessary. The thrust of procedural learning is to communicate information rather than to shape thought processes. But information that can be communicated by a person speaking can also be communicated by being written down. If it is available in written form you can read it without a teacher telling you to. Everything you learn from books in school you can also learn from the same books outside of school.

However attending Film School you can create contacts that's really what I am interested in. I was told that's a rewarding feature you receiving while in film school.


I'll shut this myth down.

How can I put this without sounding jaded...
Wait... I can't...

The only people you will meet in film school are other people with no contacts who are in the same boat as you. You do not need to meet other inexperienced wannabe filmmakers who will end up working at Blockbuster while they spend 5 years writing an unmarketable script, you need to meet people who can actually teach you something, and those people rarely go near film schools for long.

Honestly, I do not have a single contact left from when I was studying film. Everyone I know in the film world came from either meeting on sets, or through film/video oriented communities (like DVinfo!)

YOU WANT TO MAKE CONTACTS? GET A JOB (or volunteer) AT AN EQUIPMENT RENTAL COMPANY!!!

There are so many ways you can get 10x the experience that 2 years of film school will give you, in a fraction of the time, for free (and maybe occasionaly get paid).

Well, how jaded did that come off? It is just my humble opinion of one person who works in a city with one of the biggest film production industries in North America. Other's may disagree, and of course there are always exceptions, especially if you are a brilliant filmmaker with heaps of talent and a fantastic writer (isn't everyone?).
But that's just my two cents.

shut it down baby, shut it down. lol

i did a part time film course at VFS what a waste of fuggin' money and that was back in 96..lol...never again did i ponder about going to a film school
and i'm about to finish my first documentary. I see all these ppl doing filmschool and get in debt, and i just laugh. Cuz they end up working as a PA just to pay it off, u dont nee filmschool to be a PA. JUST DO IT!!!!!! there is a reason why everyone starts of as a lackie, you have to put your time into this field. If u dont want to, what are u even doing here.


Save money, get equipment, make lots and lots of things, do free videos for bands etc etc. In the meantime have a job get your reel, meet ppl, get contact that way it works much better. If you make quality $hit ppl will find you.

Dylan,

By all means be as blunt as you want to be. This is a community and I am interested in everyone's opinion, otherwise I wouldn't have posted this topic.

Like most people I do want to be a Filmmaker - however I am very realistic, Im not focused on making BIG COOL ACTION EXPLOSIVE HOLLYWOOD films, to be honest i dislike such style of films. ( I dont mean to get off Topic) In interested in Neo-Realism films, that means non-professional actors, shoot on location and so forth.

Now that I am almost done Film Studies, I would like to learn as well as expand my knowledge in film techniques, learn about lighting (which i have been reading some amazing posts) as well as cinematography and so forth.

Though yes the best way to start is obviously get a job on a set or something relating to film. I have been trying to look for a job, I just dont know where to look at really. I have emailed some places they never bother emailing back.

I am from Ottawa, Canada - Im in the UK right now on Holidays and I also have dual citizenship in USA-Canada. Somehow I am not interested in working in Hollywood.

BUt if anyone has some ideas please help me out,
Regards
JOey :>

Sorry if this is considered off-topic but is television the same as film where going to school to learn it doesn't help as much as actually going out and doing it? I'm 18 and I'd love to go to a media school (hopefully SAIT in Calgary) in a year or two to further my television career. Of course there's technical information you need to know whether you're working in the TV or film industry, but with film more focused on the artistic side of things and TV requiring a better understanding of advancing technology, could that make TV school more valuable for aspiring shooters/editors/producers/etc than film school for future filmmakers? Artistic abilities are the type of thing where either you've got it or you don't (assuming you want to make your own films). I don't think a school can teach you "it".

A lot of people who take the Ryerson television program in Toronto land jobs at CBC right after graduation. Working for CBC would pretty much be a dream job for me, but I definitely can't afford Ryerson.

Sorry to lead this away from the original discussion. There are a few points to think about, anyway.

yah ryerson is great for TV, most of much music staff is from there lol.

tv studies include(brodacast)
film studies include(motion pictures)

A lot of people who take the Ryerson television program in Toronto land jobs at CBC right after graduation. Working for CBC would pretty much be a dream job for me, but I definitely can't afford Ryerson.

There's lots of people from Ryerson who can't find jobs... I know some of them. Of the people who do land jobs, they're the ones doing lots of stuff outside of school... i.e. internship. You don't need to go to Ryerson to do stuff outside of school.

At best, Ryerson helps you land the better (unpaid) internships and entry-level positions.

Ryerson has two programs, one RTA and the other film studies/image arts. I don't know much about the film studies side, although I suspect it's pretty useless.

2- Mark: Check out the productions that are shooting in Saskatchewan. A lot of them might be hiring for example... i.e. Corner Gas for example was looking for a PA a short while back. Playback Magazine would have listings of productions that are shooting currently, that might be worth checking out. The province also requires that productions bring on trainees to build Saskatchewan's crew base... check out the Saskatchewan training programs.
http://www.playbackmag.com/articles/magazine/20010402/crew.html <--a place to start anyways

Of course there's technical information you need to know whether you're working in the TV or film industry, but with film more focused on the artistic side of things and TV requiring a better understanding of advancing technology, could that make TV school more valuable for aspiring shooters/editors/producers/etc than film school for future filmmakers?
In my opinion, both require people with good artistic skills and/or technical skills. Film typically is a higher-end work than TV, so some of the technical skills are more specialized and also more demanding when working with a bigger budget.

If I were in your position, I'd try to figure out:
A- Where you want to be. There's different lines of work... basically look through the credits of a show and see what all the roles are. Some roles may be hard to figure out (i.e. Inferno, which is not very descriptive unless you know it's a special effects/compositing system), but ask here and someone will be able to tell you.
Knowing what you would like to do will let you really focus on that and hone your skills at that, so that you're useful on set.
B- Always aim at getting a paying, entry-level job. You may need to do unpaid work (i.e. nepotism doesn't work for you)... which is good for experience, but don't stay too long if they don't pay you (I wouldn't stay longer than 6 months). Look at the training programs Saskatchewan has... that will let you work on the highest-end production being done in your province. Also try to snag a position on the feature films that come to Saskatchewan (i.e. Shall We Dance).

Saskatchewan should be a good place to be, since their industry is currently growing (due to their high tax credits).

3- Film schools and broadcasting courses generally aren't that good at teaching technical skills. When you start working, you'll have to learn the ropes from someone. Sheridan, which seems to have the best program if you want to get into Avid editing, doesn't teach you things like reading an audio meter or waveform monitor... which are technical skills you should know.

I asked if you wanted to go into film as a career, because then maybe it might make sense to go to a film school, because the cost of getting a film camera, and everything else you would need to experiment with actual film, on your own, might get pretty high and maybe not save all that much (certainly compared to the low cost of picking up a good miniDV camera, tapes and a computer, which many people already have). I really don't know.

I do know that I would never consider going to school for film or video. My interest is purely in video, and when I look back at what I've learned in just the last year, with some relatively inexpensive gear, it's hard to think that any school would have taught me anywhere near as much, in that same amount of time (not that I don't have plenty more to learn).

I asked if you wanted to go into film as a career, because then maybe it might make sense to go to a film school, because the cost of getting a film camera, and everything else you would need to experiment with actual film, on your own, might get pretty high


You don't need to shoot on film though to start working in the film industry though. Many (if not most now) lower budget productions here (where you'd likely get a start) are shooting on Varicams and the like, not that you'll likely start your career actually touching a camera. :)

exactly, listen to the cowboy. :D

Everyone seems to be consistant on one thing. Too Expensive and not as beneficial as doing it on your own or working as a PA. Im guessing thats' what everyone's answer will be.

I guess the reason why I have mentioned about Film School is because i have been in London for 2 months now and its such an exciting City to make films. For example you can shoot on location and it can look so beautiful because of the historical monuments and so on.... That's another reason why I love Europe its just sooo beautiful, the roads are narrow, buildings are old, there is alot of history and so on...

To work in Europe I need a visa - well let's say i was on holidays in Europe and I wanted to shoot a short film, do you think they would allow that? Maybe if its non commercial i can? Or they will mind if its commercial?

let me know people
Thanks again
Joey :)

Are there any accredited Universities that offer MFAs online, preferably in screenwriting? I can't tell 100% if UCLA does or not. I think only the summer program. Their site's a little vague.

heath

I'm EXTREMELY bored as this is the first year i havent gone to school since I graduated last year and decided to take a year off to get a new car and what not. But anyways, i just Emailed about 200 email address's to film school teachers/workers and what not just showing them my work and telling about myself...But, is there any way i can get like scholarships with my work.

People have told me that i could get scholarships cause of my work and i just dont know about how to go along with doing this. I've looked and cant find much, can anyone direct me please...

Giuseppe:

I love your enthusiasm. But don't go to film school because you are bored. Use this time to make movies and enter film festivals, the best film school one-two punch you'll ever have! And, look at the money you'll save! Just write, write, write and shoot, shoot, shoot and experiment.

Remember NIKE? Just do it!

At least take off an entire year to make a few good shorts to get a taste of the glory and madness of this unreal industry.

Ciao!

I'm a junior in high school and soon I will have to start making choices regarding my career, as well as my college education. I thoroughly enjoy making short DV films, I am enrolled in all the TV production classes at my school, I have learned programs like Vegas, Photoshop, and Flash. I have learned about audio, and lighting. I have entered shorts into film festivals. Basically, I really like this work overall.

However, I do not know what kind of career possibilities I would have getting out of film school. My dream would be to work as a director of photography in features, but again I don't know how realistic that would be. I would also like the idea of working as a freelance business, making documentaries, etc.

Any of the previous lines of work would make me very happy. On the other hand, I don't know if I would be able to find work, or make a living off those lines of work.

Any advice?

Ernesto, I honestly think you're a lot better off without film school. I think you can learn more on a few sets in less than a year than you can learn in 6+ years of undergrad + grad. Not to mention the fact that film school often works out to cost as much as medical school (since you get to buy your own film stock and whatnot). When you get out of school, you'll probably just end up working as PA anyway, which is easy enough to get into without school.

Then again, film school gives you access to a lot of really cool "toys" that you wouldn't get to "play" with otherwise. There's the potential to meet a lot of interesting people. You'll spend all of your time in a filmmaking environment, which isn't always true without school if you have to do other work to get by for a while.

I really think the benefits of film school are not worth the cost and/or time investment. Just try to get some work on a set, doing whatever. Even as a PA, you can try to help the gaffers out, or the sound crew, whatever. You can learn a lot that way, even in just one day.

I'm sure others will give you differing advice. Listen to all of it, and weigh your options carefully. Don't make your decision too quickly--a lot of time and money are involved.

By the way, I'm not saying you should skip college... just that majoring in film might not be best. It never hurts to be educated, no matter what you end up doing. I just don't see that film school is all that educational most of the time. I'd suggest majoring in a much broader, more general kind of subject area--the basic "liberal arts" education. You can make short films in the summertime and during spring/xmas break, and learn a lot on your own along the way. Then get into film stuff for a living when you graduate.

Just my $0.02.

Jarrod has it pretty much right, except I am in the same position as you, I am entering my last year of High School and I am soon going to make a decision on to where I will go after I graduate.

However with what Jarrod said, there are some points that can be arguable. For instance whether the school you have entered has a strong film background and is an actual "Film city" is also a point to consider. From all the research I have done into post graduate programs, I believe that a broader program which encorporates production and film studies is the best suiting for anyone who wants to go to a film school. Personally I hope to join York University and enter their BFA program for Film Production (and achieve my life goal to be a Cinematographer), as I know and from testimonials that York is one of the best universities for film studies in Canada.

I guess its all based on dedication and good choices.

Well, I'm 40, I've produced corporate videos and one documentary, and graduated with honors from a 2 year film school program. What film schools are good for is giving you an over-all perspective of the industry, the roles and responsibilities of various positions. They also help you "speak the language" so that when you go to work in the industry you have a much better understanding of what's going on, and potentially may move up the chain faster.
If you're dead set that you want to be a DOP, and also make your own films, then I'd say skip film school. Use the money to buy yourself a Canon XL2, learn how to use the electronic cinematography settings, and shoot shoot shoot. There are some really good books and videos out there that can explain a lot about working with light, but nothing beats actually doing it. Start watching everything from a DOP perspective. Even if something is a crappy story or poorly acted, what about the cinematography?
If you're not sure that being a DOP is for you, and wonder what it might be like to work as a gaffer or assistant director, then go to film school. It'll give you a chance to meet and work with new people, but you may find that you have to put the brakes on some of your own projects, and learn stuff that you're not that interested in.
If you go the indie route, don't get caught up in going HD right now. The reason I suggest the XL2 is because it has all the programable settings similar to high end cameras, but without the cost. Concentrate on making your films look great, and have a really good story. If you look around in the forums, and on-line, you can find some examples of some really good work that's being done by people pretty new to the industry.

Going to a film school in Nowheresville, USA won't give you much unless they have A-list faculty. But going to an institution in a major film city is a different story.
I'm almost done with my BFA in film from the City College of New York (ccny). The faculty is amazing, the equipment is OK, and my classmates are great. In any undergrad institution, you'll be in classes with 70% idiots, but that 30% left is why I consider film school to be a great way to get yourself started. Success at filmmaking and success in this industry is about talent (which you either have or don't), about skill (which film school definitely helps you acquire), respect for your craft and it's history (which film school DEFINITELY gives you) and who you know (that 30%). Having skilled peers to work with on a constant basis is valuable.
Also, if you start with the "real-world" thing, you'll be doing PA stuff first, I guarantee it - unless you know someone - and it'll be that way for a while. In film school, you'll be doing above the line jobs from the start.
Yes the real-world stuff is very important. What's great about going to film school is that you've got the summers off (3 months) and winters, too (over a month). You can do BOTH. You don't have to choose one direction. Also, sometimes, you can get valuable internships on professional productions THROUGH your school.
Anyway, that's my opinion. I think film-school is a great way to do your thing.

~~Dave

I think the point of film school is to network and test expensive equipment. The rest you can do on your own.

Thank you very very much for all the responses. I liked Jarrod's idea of graduating in a broader category and going into film, since that will probably give me the most options.

What about the careers after college? I just don't really understand how one can make a living off making movies or documentaries. I mean let's say I get out of college, and do a good documentary, I probably won't make any money from it unless it is so good that it gets played in theaters, or TV. However, I would have to fund the project.

So it almost seems like I would need a separate career in order to fund my filmmaking career, wouldn't I?

What about freelance video companies? Is it very tough to make a living on that front?

Thank you very much,

Ernesto.

I probably won't make any money from it unless it is so good that it gets played in theaters, or TV. However, I would have to fund the project.


Only if you're producing it. Making money off a film or documentary is dependant on who's running the gig. Some offer you money as youo go along (a payroll if you will) and some say, "hey, I have a great idea, help me make it and MAYBE we'll make money, wanna give it a shot?".

So it almost seems like I would need a separate career in order to fund my filmmaking career, wouldn't I?

Not entirely...just save, save, save! You can find funding in many forms...loans, credit cards, parents....heheh...It's all about finding a way to come up with the money. Fund raisers, etc.

What about freelance video companies? Is it very tough to make a living on that front?


Definately. Look at a lot of the people on this forum. Many work for production companies who offer video services to other commercial companies to work on commercials, tv spots, etc. Many also do wedding videography on their own or work for an established wedding videography company. There's a lot out there, you just gotta search.

i think this is a tough question to answer nowadays. with many private, 4 year undergrad programs approaching the vicinity of 100k, there's almost no way you can justify that expense going to film school, or any liberal arts program, IMHO. that's not a comment on a liberal arts education, just a knock against the state of education in this country -- it's clearly tilted towards the people who have, and not the have-nots. i have to say my time at nyu film in the late 80s and early 90s was pretty rewarding and certainly a lot of fun, but the burden of paying off student loans was a monkey on my back til only recently, and only after a fairly decent career in advertising allowed me to pay it back a little faster than i would have otherwise. i would say you certainly don't NEED film school. before the mid to late 80s, there were few films made by film school grads, because big film programs were relatively new, and its not like films weren't made prior to the mid 80s. most filmmakers at the time would ask "why are you in film school? just make films." but who wants to study to be an engineer or doctor, when you want to be a filmmaker?

i can look back now and ask myself if there was anything i learned that i couldn't have learned on my own, and the answer is no. but there is something to be said for a classroom environment, either in an actual classroom or on a set, being with people who share similar interests and goals, and actually putting out work. it's a tough call.

i would ask you to look at all your options. the breadth of interesting programs being offered in schools nowadays is pretty astounding. i just went through a round of interviews with recent graduates who majored in web design/flash and 3d. if i had those kinds of choices when i went to school, i don't think i would have chosen film as a major. and that's not to say, i wouldn't have pursued film...

in any case, whatever you do, pick something you're passionate about! that way, when you're putting that student loan check in the mail, at least you'll know why!

good luck.

Thanks again for all your responses. Regarding the cost of film school, I haven't found a film program that I am interested in yet, however, I am doing very well in school, straight A's and everything, so I'm hoping that I'll get a scholarship that will pay for most of my education. Also, I understand all the cases made for NOT going to film school, but I definitley want to go to college, and like Henry said "who wants to study to be an engineer or doctor, when you want to be a filmmaker?"

That is mainly why I am seriously considering going to film school. However, I don't want to go to film school and then not be able to find a job. So maybe, like Jarrod said, I could graduate in a more broad area and then find work as a filmmaker?

I know I've already posted, but I think Henry is really touching upon an important point. When you go through a film program, you will be forced to learn things that you may not have much interest in. But you may find, as I have, that in retrospect many of the tedious lessons learned will serve you well later. We had an assignment where we were to produce a 1-2 minute short video that was instructional. My group chose how to mount a set of snowboard bindings properly. But as part of our assignment we had to do a full production book which included location survey, lightling plan, script break down, shot list, storyboards, call sheets, the works. Recently I had a shoot where we did eight short instructional videos in one day. We HAD to be organized, and from my experience at school, I knew what to do to be prepared. The shoot went very smoothly, and the client felt I was very professional. The footage came out great.
Now, you don't have to go to school to be that organized, but if you're kind of a "ah lets just wing it" personality, you benefit from an environment that forces you to do the leg work as well. As I said in my first post, school will allow you to speak the language of film... what is three phase power? Why did the gaffer get mad at me when I plugged in an extension cord for the coffee machine? Economy of setup?
You can find out all that info by reading books, but you have to be motivated.
Also, if you're thinking about school, maybe consider colleges north of the boarder. Vancouver, Calgary, and Toronto all have worthy film schools, and are also home to alot of feature work, so they might be worth considering.

I think going to film school is great but, it is like going to school for a degree in criminal justice with the goal of being a law enforcement officer. It just does not work out most of the time.

Many or most of those who get a criminal justice degree, are unable to get hired as law enforcement officers when they graduate, not because of their education, but because of mental, physical, or emotional problems. I have seen it too many times. Even if you do get hired by a department, you have to go through a police or sheriff's academy for training, where a third or more drop out because they can't handle it, or just get kicked out. And, the first thing that they try to do in the academy is to have you unlearn all you were taught in college!

So, then what do you do with that degree? I always recommended those who want to be law enforcement officers to just get hired and then take classes, or get a degree in business or another field then apply for jobs in law enforcement. There are no shortages of openings in law enforcement, just a lack of really qualified people.

I think most of the good people in the film industry have worked their way up from other positions, such as gaffers etc. Many that I have met have done just that. This does not mean that the education is not important, just maybe secondary to real world experience, and natural talent. Talent, drive and ambition are generally more important than formal education. Just look at Bill Gates and Walt Disney.

JMHO for what it is worth.

Mike

I know a DP who graduated film school without knowing what a sandbag was. From what I've seen, film schools aren't that good at teaching you more than the basics (although knowing what a sandbag is is pretty basic).

Regardless of whether or not you go to film school, you should definitely do things on the side. PA on shoots to see what happens out there in the real world. Shoot your own stuff to experiment and learn from that. You kind of only need gear good enough to learn on.

Of the people who are working now, they generally got there because they had the drive to do things on the side. They also have an aptitude for what they do. If you just start working, you'll probably find out much faster whether or not you have that aptitude (technical aptitude, creative aptitude, and just as importantly an aptitude for working with people). It may be beneficial to take a year off before you go into university... then you'll definitely know whether or not you want to be in film.

If you were going into film school anyways, taking a year off probably isn't going to make any difference. It could also help you, because you have a better understanding of what you want to get into, where your weaknesses are, what you don't know. You could make a lot more out of going to school, where you get some gear + crew to shoot your own stuff. In Canada, $5k tuition a year might be worth it for the gear you get (this depends on the institution though!!).

If you find out that film school isn't for you, then you save yourself a bundle of cash and four years.

I began at the film academy in Belgium, but I've quit a couple of months ago, because I had the feeling I was making their movies, not my movies.
Now I've found my own team, and I'm busy... making movies.

In the 7 months I was at the academy, I didn't learn anything I hadn't read about here or experienced myself...

Just my experience...
Glenn is right: it's about your OWN PASSION and DRIVE!
If you have that, you will get there, with or without academy.
If you don't have it, no film school will get you there where you want...

when you say film school are you talking a place of study that is ONLY film and no other area's of study or do you mean a college like UCLA where not only will you study film but you'll be getting a general all around education ?

the bottom line is you have a BA/MA degree VS. a person without a degree - you both show up in LA on same day - you both have a equal chance at a PA/runner position ...

IMO: get the education !! a well rounded one = it will last a LIFE time.
when you graduate take several months off to travel the states/world ..
you'll have plenty of years to WORK in your life (figure 30-40years) ...

many of the close friends i have today i meant in college 25 years ago.
film friends (persons you meet on shoots-networking) are always coming & going ...

I would definitley go to a school like UCLA, USC, etc. I definitley want to go to college though, so would you guys recommend I consider a more broad category? Like majoring in English, even if I want to work in film?

Also, if I went to college I would always be doing work on the side, as well as film-related summer jobs. So, in your opinion, would it be better to graduate from English, or Art, or Business, and then go into film?

ernesto,

what gets your juices flowing? what would make you get up out of bed and really look forward to your school day? if filmmaking is it, my advice is to just do it. all the contributors to this thread have presented a pretty wide range of opinions, and at the end of the day, you need to extrapolate and decide for yourself. and if you commit to something, and it doesn't fit, bear in mind you're not locked into it. you're free to move on to something else.

one additional point to weigh -- i ran into some current nyu film students while i was out for a drink last week. it was interesting that they were still studying and using 16mm film, at least primarily, as opposed to a digital format. it's one thing if you want to buy an xl2 or dvx, and run out and make a minidv indie, but if shooting on film is something that turns you on, film school might be a good opportunity to get some real experience with that under your belt.

in terms of a college degree, i would say that it's importance in creative shops is that you simply have one. it shouldn't be underestimated as it is still a requirement in many job postings, but it shouldn't be overestimated either. getting a ba in any of the arts is pretty much all one and the same when you're applying for a creative position. if you apply for a graphic designer position and you have a ba in creative writing, it won't really matter if your design portfolio is good. when interviewing, i find i only glance over a resume, and really focus on a reel/portfolio, regardless of experience. this is true of my colleagues as well.

hope that helps.

Ernesto,

Stop asking us to tell you what to do. You keep regurgitatingg the same question, "Should I enter a broader field even though I want to work in film?".

It's obvious you want to work in Film, so I say, go to film school, but first do much more research on it. Try and find the best school, but don't sell yourself short. If you're going to do something, then do it, without ANY doubts. Most failures are because of doubts and insecurities. In the end, like many have stated, it's your drive and passion to do what it is you love, regardless of how many times you fall down.

I'm currently looking to enroll in the Los Angeles Film School, but like you, I wasn't sure--not because of the same worries you have, but because I thought film school was a big waste of time and money. I truly did.

But the thought of networking and finding people to work with was what eventually led to my decision to enroll. Where I live, there's NOBODY. I don't have ANY friends that love film as much as I do.

This is the only real BIG reason I'm enrolling into the school. Aside from the great equipment I could use along with the extra push they give you to make films CONSTANTLY, networking is without a doubt my biggest reason. It's also to build my social skills, to learn how to talk to people and be able to get what I need efficiently.

In the end man...find your own reasons to go, don't expect too much from us or others.

Good luck and I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make, just make sure it's TRULY what you want.

Ernesto,
But the thought of networking and finding people to work with was what eventually led to my decision to enroll. Where I live, there's NOBODY. I don't have ANY friends that love film as much as I do.

This is the only real BIG reason I'm enrolling into the school. Aside from the great equipment I could use along with the extra push they give you to make films CONSTANTLY, networking is without a doubt my biggest reason. It's also to build my social skills, to learn how to talk to people and be able to get what I need efficiently.

Roger,

I mean no offense, but you are located in or near the film capitol of the world! If you can not find friends or companions who have your interests, then film making is the least of your problems.

Why can't you find people who feel the way you do???????? Please let us know! There must be local film making groups, indie clubs etc., hell there are here in my little neck of Southern Florida!

Mike

majoring in English, even if I want to work in film?
I'd major in film. Why:

A- If you're not really interested in English/business/engineering/whatever, then you're probably not going to pay that much attention in those classes. And then you wouldn't get much out of them.

B- If you major in film, chances are higher that you'll be able to borrow gear + get classmates to help out on your shoots.

C- In my opinion, the study of English literature (as taught in most institutions) is not that worthwhile. The field doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any truths. You can have multiple (valid) interpretations of a work... if the field has any important questions, it doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any answers.

Studying literature to learn how to write + tell stories would be a worthwhile pursuit... but most institutions don't teach that. You have to write essays analyzing literature (not making it) and you must write them in a formal, academic tone (which you'd almost never do for a screenplay).

2- Look at it this way:
At the end of the day (for film/video), what you did in college isn't going to be that important. A film school degree is not very important at all- there's a glut of film school graduates, yet many people in the industry don't have such a degree. Your drive is more important... just go out there and start getting your feet wet. And have fun- that's important too! :D

just want to remind all that Ernesto is a Jr. in high school .... so 2 more years till he graduates ...
IMO keep your eye on film school ... you might see if you have some interest in related area's IE: photography, writing , basic accounting , basic understanding of business , anything connected to theater - maybe take a acting , lighting, directing class, foreign language ...

also see what your local jr college offers during the summers in areas that interest you ...

C- In my opinion, the study of English literature (as taught in most institutions) is not that worthwhile. The field doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any truths. You can have multiple (valid) interpretations of a work... if the field has any important questions, it doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any answers.Is cinema any different in that respect? :) We're talking about the Arts, not the Sciences. Well, I am. I don't mean to speak for you.

But back on topic, I agree that you shouldn't major in something that bores you. I double-majored in English and French, because I enjoyed studying both. I'm glad I did that. I didn't want to go to college to learn a vocation, or even to increase my earning potential. I wanted to be educated in a broad sense. As a filmmaker, part of what I do is examine and interpret the world and culture I live in. Sound like what happens in Eng. Lit. classes? :)

I think that going to school just to learn how to tweak buttons and knobs is not necessarily worthwhile. You can learn all of that in the field, and arguably better/faster/more cheaply at that. Button-tweaking is a means, not an end. The message, or story, or whatever you choose to call it is what's important. Making movies is about communication. I happen to believe that you have to think about things (i.e. examine them, interpret them) before you can even hope to have anything worth communicating to anyone.

There's a lot to be said for making one's own discoveries when it comes to making moving images. I think learning to make movies on your own leads down much more creative paths than any kind of institutional group-think can lead to.

With all respect, Glenn, I feel like my B.A. in English/American/French Lit. was very worthwhile. Best money I ever spent. Though I'll be still spending it on loan repayments until the day I croak, it was well worth it.

Ernesto, it's your decision. I'm just talking about my own decisions in the hope that they might help you make yours in some way.

Getting an English degree won't do anything for you, just teaching at most. Same thing as getting a Film degree but with a film degree you'd be able to teach about film, which would be more fun for you I'd think =).

Film school just doesn't sound worthwhile to some and sounds necessary to others. It's a 50%-50% difference in the responses you'll get. I'm personally doing the more dangerous route and am just majoring in Film in college. I don't care about any other jobs, filmmaking is what I'm going to do no matter what. Film school (ie. UCLA, USC, ect.) afterwards? Maybe. I don't think I need it, it sounds like I'll just be learning the same stuff I'll be learning in my college courses.

In the end, you decide what you want to do. Trust me, if you need film school, you'll know it. The biggest indicator is how people respond to your work. I ruled my film production 1 class and everyone who's seen my first little films has loved each one and my professors are looking forward to seeing what I do in film production 2 in the Fall '06 semester. See, I may not need film school if my work is winning people over already. But some people just aren't getting it at my school, they don't even know about DVInfo.net or DVXUser.com, so they may eventually need film school just for more experience. It depends.

The major consensus seems to be that film school provides networking opportunities, so that is a possible major plus for going. But like I said, it depends on you and what you think is best and no matter what you decide, I wish you good luck because in the end we're all in this business together in one form or another. =)

Getting an English degree won't do anything for you, just teaching at most.Well, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I just explained at length what my English degree has done for me. There's more to an education than job prospects, in my opinion.

If you have a great work ethic and are great with being responsible and also have a clear understanding of what you want to do for a living after graduating high school, I say,"go after it". If you feel you could use some help with these issues, school is a great tool for teaching these issues which promise me you will need to be a success at any trade you intent to make a living at. I went to Fullsail in Winter Park FL. and highly recommend it. You learn a broad understanding of the tools of the trade and they work you all day everyday which is what it takes to develope into a good worker. Good luck.

C- In my opinion, the study of English literature (as taught in most institutions) is not that worthwhile. The field doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any truths. You can have multiple (valid) interpretations of a work... if the field has any important questions, it doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any answers.

Studying literature to learn how to write + tell stories would be a worthwhile pursuit... but most institutions don't teach that. You have to write essays analyzing literature (not making it) and you must write them in a formal, academic tone (which you'd almost never do for a screenplay).

Say it again, Glenn!

One vote for a business education here... They don't call it the movie business for nothing!

Well, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I just explained at length what my English degree has done for me. There's more to an education than job prospects, in my opinion.

Guess that's what I get for not reading the whole entire thread huh? =)

so we've heard that english , film or for that matter BA degree won't get you much ?? except maybe teaching ...

lets look at it from no degree VS. a degree ...
lets face it bottom line is IMO 70% of those that go into film business are not going to be there 5 years down the line ...so whne one leaves the film business 5 years down the line what resume will be put into the call back stack - the one with a BA (in anything) or the one with no degree ?

the english major becomes a teacher , the french major works for american firm that does business in france .. and the no degree person becomes - well they can't teach any subject ... still there are many opportunities for non degree persons but IMO there are more doors open for degree persons AND if you look at study's a degree persons earns more then a non degree person..

realistic - there are 1000's of DP's out there .. how many are making a good living from it ? the list of DP's that are making a good living in LA is actually not that long ... sort of like the # of actors in LA but on a film project there are many actors hired and only ONE DP ....

Roger,

I mean no offense, but you are located in or near the film capitol of the world! If you can not find friends or companions who have your interests, then film making is the least of your problems.

Why can't you find people who feel the way you do???????? Please let us know! There must be local film making groups, indie clubs etc., hell there are here in my little neck of Southern Florida!

Mike

This is true. The high school I went to had NOONE with the same interest as me. Sure they loved movies, but they weren't the type to want to MAKE one.

Even when I hit film school the first time around it was hard to find people TRULY dedicated to filmmaking (but I blame that on the school mostly...it really sucked). The students there were just there for a grade and pass the class. So, I took off...and now I found out about The LA Film school which is DEDICATED to NOTHING but Filmmaking....and the students there...well! They know what they want and they work hard. The school itself is like a job, working 10+ hours a week and I've seent eh students work and it is AMAZING.

BUt anyway, I never could find clubs for filmmaking here. Maybe I just didn't look hard enough, but I did try.

if you look at study's a degree persons earns more then a non degree person..
While I'd agree that there is a (strong) correlation between degrees and lifetime earnings, that doesn't necessarily prove a cause/effect relationship. It could be that those who are interested in making money are more likely to finish a degree... it would really be their interest in making money that causes them to make lots of money in their lifetime. To know the true effect of getting a degree, the thing to do would be to run an experiment. I don't believe there have been any studies/experiments like this.

You could also compare the people that finish degrees to those that dropout. Sometimes, dropouts do exceptionally well (i.e. Bill Gates). In the case of Humber College, I've met more dropouts (or people who failed to finish their degrees) who are working in the industry than graduates working in the industry (although this is quite annecdotal, and the sample size is way too small). They dropped out of college because they were working already and realized they weren't learning that much in school. If the correlation is positive here (dropping out increases your success), we know that dropping out probably does not cause you to be more successful (it's much more likely that people who will be successful tend to drop out / not finish).

In the case of film specifically, the correlations between getting a degree + employment may not be very strong. Many in the industry don't have degrees. From a semi-theoretical perspective, those who have gone through film school find that the education could have been better. (See the ron dexter link below.)

there are more doors open for degree persons
This is probably true... a degree is a prerequisite for jobs in many fields because employers look for it.

For the film/video industry however, the degree is generally not very important. If you can graduate without knowing what a sandbag is, you're not all that much more useful than a person who didn't go through film school. Regardless, you can get a foot in the door and work your way up without having gone to film school. The door is ajar... there are sneaky ways of getting a PA position on a set. And if you just graduated from film school, you'll likely only land a PA position anyways.

Not going to film school might be more fun since you won't be saddled with student loans and working a low-paying PA (or other entry-level) job. In Canada, tuition isn't that much so student loans aren't that big a deal.

On the other hand, you can't lose out on anything if you go to film school. And there are some advantages + perks, like getting student discounts, borrow gear, some networking, parents approve, make new friends, chill out for X years, etc.

Other viewpoints:
http://www.rondexter.com/filmschool/introduction_to_film_school.htm

Say it again, Glenn!
:D

Even if you do not get to be a Director of Photography, going to film school and graduating will give you some back up knowledge to go into teaching, of coarse you have to go to teachers college but atleast you know film school helped you out alot.

My other two cents,

the film business is actually quite small .. there are less persons working in LA area film business then there was 40 , 30, 20 , 10, 5 years ago ! so is there a trend here?

Go to a College like Columbia in Chicago. Take Production one and two, and maybe three, and a special effects course. Take screenwritting one and two and history of film. Then take legal aspects of arts and entertainment, a business management class, marketing and an advertising course. Do this and you would've structured your whole education around being an indy filmmaker. That's what I did. After this read a lot of books and talk to people in the industry. Trust me on this one. "What They Don't Teach You At Film School : 161 Strategies to Making Your Own Movie No Matter What" is a great book. Amazon has it for cheap (starting from $4.20).

-Nate