I am looking at getting either the EX1 or the new Z7 as options. I prefer the EX1 1/2" chips and 1920x1080, but do like the Z7's ability to record simultaneously to tape for backup and CF for immediate use is nice. Having experienced CF card issues, my fear with the EX1 is SxS card failures, glitches, etc. on a camera without a secondary recording (tape).

For those that have used this camera, have you experienced issues with the recordings to the SxS cards or have they been consistently reliable? If issues, what have you experienced and have you been able to recover the recording? How many hours of use have you put them through?

No problems at all with SxS. Even when I accidentally pulled out the USB cable during transfer. It asked me to repair the media and it worked fine.

I back up to DL DVD.

I'm glad to kiss tape goodbye. No drop outs, no shuttling, no worrying about head alignment, no worry about finding someone with a compatible deck if I take the tapes someplace.

DL DVD plus Sony Clip Browser makes for easy portability.

Good question - compared with the Z7's CF memory, the SxS ExpressCard option as adopted in the EX1 is not only faster (allowing higher bitrate with overscan), but also more reliable - not a single issue reported so far!

Another thing to remember: the Z7's CF recorder has only ONE card slot. Meaning that after the card is full, you have to STOP recording in order to off-load or swap the card (unless continuing with the tape only is OK).

With the EX1's two slots, you can record continuously forever - after filling up card A, the camera switches and seamlessly continues recording to card B, giving you enough time to off-load card A and insert it back.

I have experienced the beauty of double media recording with the V1 (tape plus the DR60 drive); the Z7 will be similar with the difference that while DR60 holds 4.5 hours of HDV, the CF holds less and once filled up, recording must stop.

True - the EX1 doesn't give you the instant backup on tape, but for mission critical you can always switch it to SP (=HDV) and record to both the ExpressCard and the DR60 disk, which - while still not being a shelf-ready archive - does give the redundancy you might need.

I understand the EX1 can record 100 minutes at 35Mbps using two 16-GB SxS memory cards. How long does it take to transfer one 16 card (approx 50 minutes) to a computer?

I understand the EX1 can record 100 minutes at 35Mbps using two 16-GB SxS memory cards. How long does it take to transfer one 16 card (approx 50 minutes) to a computer?

I currently only hav 8 GB cards, and it takes approximately 4 mins per card using ExpressCard slot in my Vaio laptop (considerably longer using the direct camera USB connection).

I edit with AVID Express PRO HD, however have never attempted an HD edit. I am interested in familiarizing myself with a HD project and was wondering if anyone would be willing to provide me with 30 seconds or so of raw EX1 files.

There is plenty posted already, just search this forum and this one:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=163

I understand the EX1 can record 100 minutes at 35Mbps using two 16-GB SxS memory cards. How long does it take to transfer one 16 card (approx 50 minutes) to a computer?

I use 16 GB cards and to transfer to PC via USB cable, a full 16GB (i.e 50 minutes) takes 14 minutes which roughly works out as a transfer speed of x3.5. If you had to use an express card slot such as that found on laptops, it is even faster.

I am getting about 6x transfer with a MacBookPro and the express slot. Sure beats tape capturing!

Piotr, Again, I am new to the HD world so forgive any ignorance. I have seen several posted video clips from the EX1, however there are encoded for the web already (mov files for example). What I am hoping for is a file still raw off the SxS. I am not familiar with what the file type is the EX1 shoots.

Another point:
The more I learn, the more I am leaning toward the EX1, over the Z7U, however I have VX2100s and can use the batteries from those on the Z7 and the CF cards are cheaper.

3 Z7 cameras with 7 CF 16GB cards (near 7 hours recording time) at current deals will cost less than $17,500

3 EX1 cameras with 7 SxS 16GB cards (near 7 hours recording time) at current prices I am finding will cost $26,000 (over $6k for the cards themselves)

Tim,

2 16GB cards and either MacBookPro or Sony Vaio Laptop gives you "infinite" (limited by drive space) record time. Maybe you're including that since you mention 7 cards for 3 cameras.

Buy one camera and rent 2 others as needed unless you think you'll be using 3 cameras daily.

EX records XDCAM HD in .mp4 wrapper (as opposed to .mxf). It can record in HDV compatible format too.

If you're charging your clients what the gear and your skills are worth the cost of ownership is reasonable. You shouldn't charge DV or HDV prices for XDCAM HD quality.

If time is money (and it IS in this industry) then the ingest speed will save you money compared to tape. Imagine ingesting 6 hours of material in one hour. You've just freed up a day.

Tim,

If time is money (and it IS in this industry) then the ingest speed will save you money compared to tape. Imagine ingesting 6 hours of material in one hour. You've just freed up a day.

You said it. I had to capture 7 hours of tapes the other day that someone else shot and was so annoyed, yet happy that those days are few and far between. That said....capturing is always a great opportunity for me to watch HBO.

Another point:
The more I learn, the more I am leaning toward the EX1, over the Z7U, however I have VX2100s and can use the batteries from those on the Z7 and the CF cards are cheaper.

3 Z7 cameras with 7 CF 16GB cards (near 7 hours recording time) at current deals will cost less than $17,500

3 EX1 cameras with 7 SxS 16GB cards (near 7 hours recording time) at current prices I am finding will cost $26,000 (over $6k for the cards themselves)

Comparing CF cards in general to SxS cards is a bit unfair if only from a data transfer viewpoint.

Compare to the 300x CF cards as a starting point.

CF will still come out cheaper- though not by as much.

In any case, with the EX1 you are getting a LOT more camera for the money.

For one, even in the SP 25Mbps mode you get 16 bit 48KHz uncompressed PCM audio. HDV cams like the Z7U deliver compressed audio only, forcing you to two system recording if you want quality sound.

The sound issue has kept me away from HDV cameras.

Have you considered the Panasonic HVX200? Its a good camera, has dual system recording, and uncompressed audio recording in ALL modes. It can write DV to tape and DVCPRO HD to P2 cards simultaneously.

For many users it is a better deal than either the Z7 or the EX1.

I don't know how immediate your needs are but I am thinking about holding off on my planned EX1 purchase until after NAB at this point. All my scheduled projects already have camera packages attached that I am just coming in to use. That or I am just scheduled to do post.

Of course if a job that I need my own equipment for shows up first...

Alexander,

I love my Panasonic DVX100a and definitely would consider the HVX200. Are you aware of how the 200 compares to the EX1 in low light? I also have to think the EX1 with 1/2" chips will produce better results that the 200 with 1/3" chips. Low light is an issue for me since I do shoot some weddings and reception halls are not always kept lit. I do like the take and P2 dual recording of the Panasonic.

Alexander,

I love my Panasonic DVX100a and definitely would consider the HVX200. Are you aware of how the 200 compares to the EX1 in low light? I also have to think the EX1 with 1/2" chips will produce better results that the 200 with 1/3" chips. Low light is an issue for me since I do shoot some weddings and reception halls are not always kept lit. I do like the take and P2 dual recording of the Panasonic.

The EX1 is a better low light performer than the HVX200, no doubt in my mind.

The HVX can make a nice picture in low light- but when you do you notice a lot of noise in the blacks.

That comparison is in the low gain modes of the cameras. Both can of course use gain to make a good exposure in most circumstances.

The difference is in the noise levels. The EX1 can use a lot more gain with acceptable noise levels than the HVX.

Still in either case I recommend lighting.

I came across this thread while searching for the solution to my first problem with Sony SxS cards. I shot a footage of turtles today, few excellent shots. I have two 8 GB cards and download the footage with direct USB connection between camcorder and the desktop. Sony ClipBrowser software shows the two card slots as two drives. I was in rush, selected all clips, downloaded and then formatted the cards in camcorder. To my horror I realized that I forgot to select THE OTHER card and download it too! I did not shot a second on those cards and have been trying to recover files on a laptop with express slot, but no luck so far. I guess the footage from one of the cards is completely gone. And it was the best part of my day...

Either Sony needs to make look the two slots as one drive or remind you that you only downloaded one card or format the cards in a way that they can be recovered.

Otherwise I like the EX1, this is my first big disappointment.

Otherwise I like the EX1, this is my first big disappointment.

Ouch! That sounds painful... and there are such beautiful turtles (among other things) around here! I'm working on the UWOL challenge this month and I filmed everything right at Fort Clinch in Fernandina, just a county away! :)

Best of luck replacing those clips with more good footage!

i hate to say it but you just gotta check everything before you wipe. its a tough way to learn but i never erase my cards until i am sure i have a safe copy. too paranoid!!

When I'm done pulling media off my cam on to my field computer I always do three things.

1) pull a copy on to a 80 gb firewire drive
2) spot check 5-10 randon clips from the firewire drive
3) check the size of the folders on the computer and the firewire drice and make sure they're identical byte for byte.

That usually takes a few minutes so it's also a time for me to just take a deep breath and make sure I did everything before formatting.

i hate to say it but you just gotta check everything before you wipe. its a tough way to learn but i never erase my cards until i am sure i have a safe copy. too paranoid!!

Seconded. The onus is on the operator here.

Also- you realize this was a problem in tape based video too. Good old bulk erasers got rid of your video good.

Thanks Carl. I did replace the footage with even better one! Mounted my camcorder on a surf board that I turned into remote controlled boat using parts from a toy boat, camouflaged the thing with paint, leaves and branches and navigated right next to turtles!

I am accepting that wiping the card is operator's error. What I am suggesting that a software company should make software "fool-proof". I am in medical software industry and the lesson you learn here is that you have to make sure the software supports customers; it is a life or death situation in healthcare. The software must be intuitive to use and work around most common mistakes. It is the responsibility of developers to make this effort. "It works" approach is not enough. If there is a way to make it better (and there is always a way) - you should do it, preferably before you release it to general public. Alternatively there should be a way to recover from a mistake.

And this brings me to my original question - did anybody figure how to recover files from formatted SxS card? I tried all open source and commercial products that had trials and it seems the SxS cards have new file structure that is not supported currently. Where is Sony "un-eraser"?

Also- you realize this was a problem in tape based video too. Good old bulk erasers got rid of your video good.

True, but in the DV/HDV world tape is not so costly so we never wipe it out anymore. I'm sure if the solid state media was as cheap we'd do the same thing here too.