If you haven't read on another thread, I recently began encountering problem with my DVX100's heads. Apparently, according to the warning flashing in my lcd, I have a dirty cylinder (heads). Oddly enough I never swapped tape brands specifically to avoid this problem- heck I never even rewound a tape in it, as I use a DV tape rewinder to alleviate any additional stress on the heads. Even with all the precautions I took I still encountered problems.

Now I'm in the midst of waiting for my shipment of Panasonic MQ tapes to arrive- when I'll promptly run the cleaning tape and start using only MQs. I was curious:
1. How many people have encountered this problem or something similar with their DVX100?
2. What brand of tape were you originally using when you encounterd the problem?
3. What measure were taken to fix the problem and how sucessfull were they- does your camera now work as good as new?

I'm just a bit worried- I've been reading posts both on here and on 2-pop, and Camcorderinfo.com about people having similar problems. At least a couple have noted that running the cleaning tape and switching to MQ tapes 'still' hadn't fixed the problem and they are in dilemma of sending the camera back and forth to Panasonic. *ugh, and I have paid gigs scheduled comming up- I sure hope the old tape cleaner/MQ tapes combo works!*

I haven't had any direct problems with the heads on my DVX100, yet. I've only had the camera for a week and have only logged about 10 hours on it, mostly just playing and learning. I was using Fuji DV tapes, and quit taping for now while I await my shipment of Panasonic MQs which should be here within the hour.

The Fuji tapes would squeal and slip in my DVX100 and I would get noise and drop outs. No dirty heads yet, but Fuji tapes have never given me any troubles in any other camcorder, but the DVX100 doesn't seem t like them, even though they have been recommended by others using the DVX100 on other sites.

I'm hoping that my problems with dropouts and slipping or sticking tapes will go away with the MQ tapes. I've found that fast forwarding and rewinding the Fujis before I use them helps a little. But mostly I'm hoping that I just needed the better tapes and don't have a problem with the new camera.

I've had two DVX100's (one when they first came out, had a financial crisis, sold, then re-bought one a couple of months ago).

Only used MQ's on both and had nary a dropout or problem on either one, though I've only shot about 2.5 hours so far. I do all viewing, rewinding in my JVC deck.

Jeff, is there any technical reason why one would fast-forward and rewind a tape before using it...just curious.
Also are you going to run the head cleaner before switching to the MQs beings the FUJI tapes are a wet lube system and MQs are dry?

Stephen, 2.5 hours...jeez is that what is logged on your camera. Last time I checked I was over the 20 hour mark. Mainly because I've shot 3 weddings with it. Do you know if just having your camera on logs hours onto the internal clock (the one that logs total hours). Or do you have to have a tap in and/or be recording or viewing to actually log time. It's pretty neat this cam has an "odometer"....I'd be even neater if I never encountered this head problem right off the bat!

I admire anyone who shoots weddings...

It tracks recording time, not playback as far as I recall from the manual.

Maybe it tracks cylinder head rotation. I guess having a tape loaded and on record-pause wouldn't count. Speaking of which- why does a camera have to shut off if a tape is inserted and your operating the camera in record-pause mode. What is at danger of being damaged? The heads, the tape, or both?...and WHY?

PS I admire people who shoot shorts. I wish I had time to do them! I only do wedding videos because it's the only thing I found to be lucrative. In order to get deep into production of a short I'd have to turn down wedding business...which I simply can't. Too much debt!

You are correct sir - in the manual it says head rotation, but it does not say recording or playback specifically.

Fortunately, I work in IT part-time (use to do it full time for years) so I can spend time in shorts (pun intended)

Still, too much debt as well to just play moviemaker all day... :)

I was just thinking about it and it COULDN'T be by "record" time only. There's no way I ran 20 tapes thru the camera yet. I maybe shot 10 tapes if that. It's probably record and playback- that would make sense. Roughly 10 hours of tapes, and 10 hours of capturing (which I'll remedy soon when I buy an inexpensive DV cam to do my capturing to save wear).

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Jeff, is there any technical reason why one would fast-forward and rewind a tape before using it...just curious.
Also are you going to run the head cleaner before switching to the MQs beings the FUJI tapes are a wet lube system and MQs are dry? -->>>

Fast forward and then rewind theoretically should remove any slack in the tape and allow the heads to keep it under proper tension -- hopefully to minimize any slipping. Seems to work a bit with the Fuji tapes, but I don't know how well... I have noticed that if I do a lot of scanning back and forth on the tape it seems to start slipping more. I only ran 2 fuji tapes through the camera and the only reason I ran a second is that I first thought I just had a bad tape.

My MQs arrived today, but I haven't had a chance to give them a try yet. I plan to take a good look inside the tape mechanism and see if it looks like there's any build-up before I run the first MQ tape through it. If I can avoid running the head cleaner, I will.

Problem is you won't "see" any buildup. Head clogs can be microscopic. It's always recomended you run the head cleaner before switching tape brands. Though I agree- I always try and avoid using the head cleaner at all costs.

Oh and about ff and rewinding- you don't do that in-camera do you...I'd think that would put uneeded stress on the tape mechanism and/or heads.

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Problem is you won't "see" any buildup. Head clogs can be microscopic. It's always recomended you run the head cleaner before switching tape brands. Though I agree- I always try and avoid using the head cleaner at all costs.

Oh and about ff and rewinding- you don't do that in-camera do you...I'd think that would put uneeded stress on the tape mechanism and/or heads. -->>>

Yeah, I'll probably run the head cleaner for a few seconds or so just to be sure.

The FF and Rewinding... I've got a separate FF/rewind unit thankfully. I did have a Sony miniDV deck, but got rid of it nearly a year ago because it seemed to only want to read tapes shot on the PD-150 that I sold along with it.

Yeah I've heard others do the same thing regarding rewinding and ff a tape before use. I'll have to start doing that- anything to limit the possibility of problems. If I were shooting a goofy short or something it wouldn't matter but I'm doing wedding videography and the footage is of utmost importance. I can't afford (litterally) to lose any of the footage due to the tape/camera messing up. I've also heard it helps loosen any factory contaminants that might end up clogging your heads.

The only concern I have about that is DV rewinders seem harsh. They rewind and fast-forward FULL SPEED untill they SLAM into the beginning or end. Is this bad on tapes? I'm using a B&H video bought "Sigma" DV rewinder.

On page 9 of the manual, under the 'Cassette tapes' section there's some best practices advice on tapes. This includes fast forwarding and rewinding a tape every six months, and to always rewind a tape before storing it. I guess if the manual suggests doing so than fast forwarding and rewinding isn't a bad idea? I broke down and purchased a AG-DV1000 deck and haven't had any problems so far. Maybe you should sell the rewinder on eBay and get a real deck, especially if your business is critical?

Well my main concern is getting the camera up and running. My MQ tapes are arriving thursday- I'll run the head cleaner and do some test shots with the new tapes and see what happens.

Regarding buying a deck- it's definitly a good idea. Saves loads of stress on the tape transport- however I'm going a different route. I'm gonna purchase a Sharp Viewcam DV camera ($350) to use as a DV deck and throw-away camera. It's about $600 less than a deck and if the heads get ruined I can just go out and buy another one....barring it lasts at least a year or so.

Glen--I have also had tape dropouts on my DVX100. I've only used the MQ tapes however, and have run maybe 40 hours through. I was pretty pissed about this, though I love the camera otherwise, called Panasonic and they were supposed to get back to me but haven't. Meanwhile I have not noticed any more dropouts so maybe things are fine now. I will let you know if I have more and what I finally do to fix them. You can see my thread regarding these dropouts in this forum.

Peter

Peter, the thing is I wasn't just getting droppouts...my footage was ALL messed up! Plus I was getting the flashing red X which means dirty heads?! Drop-outs would be a godsend for me compared to my problem. Hopefully runing the cleaner and switching to MQs will fix it. They are due to arrive tommorrow from UPS. I'll keep you guys posted.

These dropout problems are starting to scare me:(

I just spent some hard earned cash on a new DVX100 and now I'm having doubts! Do you think this could be a major problem ??

It's not a widespread one. Hundreds, probabably thousands of these are out there, several features and dozens of shorts and docs have already been shot with the cam without this issue showing up as "major problem".

its strange thou, as i have major probs with one of my MX500's having dropouts and distorted audio and video...
BUT after runnign tapes continually, it sems to have stopped teh problem..
I always thought it was the heads that neede lubing from teh tape... as after i ran the cleaner, it worked perfectly...
I gather these 2 cams are running the same DVMechanism considering teh size....

i still havent seen this pop up on the DVX thou..

hope it doesnt...

Nick--I woudln't worry too much about the dropouts. Just be sure to use MQ tapes only, def. not something you want to skimp on. I haven't seen anymore dropouts in my stuff, so maybe it's problem solved. A hunch is that part of this is related to the "break in" of the camera, and when using MQ tapes, whcih are "dry lubricants" maybe there is some issue with enough lubrication getting on the heads in the initial break in period. Honestly, I have no idea, just a guess. Anyway, you can find MQ tapes at www.edgewisemedia.com. They carry them for around $5.50 a tape, which is BY FAR the cheapest I have seen.

Peter

Glen--It sounds like the problem was the tapes to me, but that's just a guess. Heck, if I've been using the exact perscribed tape from Panasonic and still have intermittent problems, then maybe this cam is just really sensitive to tapes. ANyway, I think the MQ's may be the answer. How much did you pay for yours? I found them at www.edgewisemedia.com for about 5.50 per tape. Any better deal?

Peter

Geezz, I'm buying a DVX100 today and I sure hope I don't have anyh of these problems!! If it's a lemon I'm taking it back!

Make sure you shoot only with Panasonic MQ tapes right off the bat!

Glenn- I hope you are still receiving subscriptions to this topic. Did the MQ tapes solve your problem? I am having the same issues as you intitially reported...

Also- how long did you run the cleaning tape in the camera to clean it?

Thanks!
Ted

You must follow the directions on the cleaning tapes exactly. Any deviation from the printed instructions could potentially damage your camera. Do Not clean for more than the recommended time or run the tape more than the directions say.

bit of an update following jeffs revival of this, i have found that even using the standard consumer DVM60 tapes does NOT cause a problem IF you FF and RW the tapes...
now this works for me, so i use ye ol DS88 handycam to do this...

I have shot about 80hrs continuously with no dropouts since i started using this method on both the MX500 and DVX.

I have now got my hands on the MQ tapes as business has now started to really pick up.

Even though i am not getting drop outs anymore, i am still wary, and considering the clas of this cam, the extra investment is worthwhile

My AG-DVX100 has only 15 hours on the counter, and this week I had some problems (dirty heads). I use FUJI tapes. I will try JVC tapes today, it's impossible to find Panasonic MQ here in Europe.

hey guys--Well I have used ONLY MQ tapes in my cam and I STILL had problems with tape dropouts, but they seem to have subsided now. Bottom line, I'd say use MQ for reduced headwear, but don't think that simply switching to them will solve all your problems, as I obviously still had problems with them.

Peter

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Richardson : hey guys--Well I have used ONLY MQ tapes in my cam and I STILL had problems with tape dropouts, but they seem to have subsided now.
Peter -->>>

Are these dropouts occuring on normal speed playback or high speed review/cuing? I find that some capture programs (like Scenalyzer) are tough on tape transport mechanisms. Apple's iMovie seems to be the gentlest.

Besides the Panasonic MQ tapes (which they obviously recommend since they manufacture both the camcorder and the tape), why should Sony tapes be bad for the DVX100? I've never had problems with Sony on the PD-150. I like sticking with one brand, and will do so when I get the dvx100 next week, unless someone has solid experience to the contrary.

Marc,

It doesn't have to do with the tape brand/quality. It has to do with the camera. I've always used TDK tapes just fine in my GL1, even switching tapes. But when I use them in the DVX100, the camera takes a crap all over the tape. Just because your Sony tapes work in your PD150, does not mean that they will work in the DVX100.

And this does not refer to playing back the tape (in reference to your commment about iMovie). It has to do with recording the tape. The camera leaves horizontal stripes all over the recording which is unsalvable.

Ted

Hi Marc. My problems with heads were the same as Ted's: the tape was recorded with the dropout--obviously a very bad thing. If this camera wasn't so great in so many other respects, this would be a major reason not get it (especially as it seems a lot of people have problems with this). You might get the Mack extended warranty as who knows what happens to these heads after a year or two of use. Also, if you buy the cam with a visa or mastercard platinum, the warranty is automatically doubled (for free) which is what I'm counting on if I run into more problems down the road. Hope that helps,

peter

Well put me on the list of those having tape head problems. My DVC80 is brand spanking new and after using it 5 minutes- I noticed tons of drop-outs and weird large pixel blocks on the screen all garbled up......problem is when you're recording you have no idea that your incoming footage is getting messed up- you'll only find out when you try to play back....I ran a head cleaner tape for 10 seconds as per instructions- but still the problem exisists....even worse if I play a tape recorded from one of my other camcorders- it again shows the footage all messed up- which confirms this is a head problem- something is misaligned....I've tested it with footage that plays 100% perfectly previously shot with my XL1S and sure enough pixel boxes with weird colors, lines the right side of the video screen- the rest of the screen is perfect- if the video is FF the pixel boxes disappear- definitely a head problem here!!!!

I only use Panasonic DVM60ME tapes and never had a problem with them when used in a GL2, XL1s, PDX10, Pan Palmcorder and DVX100- but this DVC80 is absolutely recording some weired pixelated video......the DVC80 goes back to B&H tomorrow AM for a replacement unit.....I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that this was a 1X fluke and that this is not an inherent problem with DVX/DVC series of camcorders......I'll post an update tomorrow with the new unit.

READ! You have to use the Panasonic MQ tapes!!!!

That fixes everything.

I recently got mine and the camera works like a charm now.....

Come on now- you "have to" to use a certain brand and type of tape or you'll experience drop-outs or head tracking problems? This can't be true- no other one of my camcorders have ever needed this special attention to tape type- just doesn't sound right for a $2500 Pro mini-DV camcorder! I mean I'm using Panasonic Brand tapes in SP mode in 60 minute capacity as Panasonic recommended in their user's manual.......maybe MQ tapes are more robust or whatever and cease the head issues when other types are used but this sounds like a problem mask or workaround rather than a solid recording head.......my unit goes back tomorrow for another DVC80- if that unit does the same thing then I'll get a refund and look at something else!

Here's exactly what's happening with brand new 60 min Panasonic tapes in a camcorder less than 5 minutes old- and as recommended by Panasonic themselves.......you guys tell me if something's not wrong here!!!!!

http://stevenunez.com/video/panheadprob.mov

PS- The video shows some airbrushed artwork I'm in the process of creating for a show motorcycle for the NY Jacob Javits M/C Show 2004....I was trying to tape a "in progress" type video showing the before, during and after, of the bikes creation...the DVC80 let me down big time as all the footage contained data damage.

Steve-

I know what you are talking about. I'm peeved over the situation too. I mean, I have to go from $3.00 tapes to $5.60 tapes. I was able to use any kind of tape in my old GL1- but this DVX100 kicked me in the a$$ when I tried to do the same!

Call it a conspiracy, call it whatever you want. Go try getting an MQ tape for yourself and see what happens. It'll work.

I agree- I don't think a $3000 camera should have that kind of discrepancy with tapes. But this camera has the features I want at the cost I can pay. So I am willing to spend an extra $2.60 per tape to make that happen. Maybe if we all make a suit against Panasonic...... nah.

Ted

Ted,

I just packed the camera up, back in the box about 2 hrs ago- does the Panasonic 'User's Manual" specify MQ series type tapes only? How about Professional Quality (PQ) tapes? If not then I think Panasonic has a serious issue here- from what I recall there was a warning about shooting in 90 min mode and using LP mode- other than that I believe it recommends using genuine Panasonic brand tapes and shooting in 60 min/SP Mode- so the DVM60ME Panasonic Tapes should be adequate as per manufacturer's recommendations.....anything else is just a shady workaround for seemingly delicate heads....I definitely recommend getting an extended warranty to anyone thinking of getting a DVC80 or DVX100!

I have about 50 new Panasonic DVM60ME tapes that are seemingly useless for a DVX/DVC camera---- I thought mini-DV was mini-DV, now we have to be brand and type specific or a camera will not perform...that's horrible- no excuses!
~~ Matter of fact- I'm gonna take the new camera out right there at B&H and if it does the same thing- I'll show the store staff and even use a new sealed tape----- and i'll walk out with my $2500!

(such a shame for such a super camera- I guess even camcorders have a "kryptonite" !!!!!)

I don't blame you. Get a GL2 for $1000 less....

What's even more strange is that I just dug up an old tape shot with my DVX100 and just played it with a Panasonic Palmcorder and the footage is 100% perfect- and this was shot with a DVX100 and on Pan DVM60ME tape- so what gives????

If it absolutely NEEDED MQ series tapes then the footage I'm looking at of saw whet owls should be messed up- but it's perfect------nah something's up here....I'm keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow's DVC80.

Plus a few replies back someone wrote that they still had head problems even when using the MQ tapes-----come on Panasonic- fix these DVC/X cameras!

(( Problem is- what do i get next if the DVC80 craps out?? ))

Side note: Has anyone got their DVX or DVC's working with ME tapes at all? Post here- I think allot fo people here would like to know. We know MQ tapes seem to work well- what else are you guys getting good results with?

_____ THE SAGA CONTINUES _______

Ted--I've been using MQ tapes since day one and still had problems, so they are most certainly not the solution.

Peter

Well just got back from B&H and tested (purchased) a new DVC80......using Panasonic DVM60ME (consumer grade) tapes- footage is perfect- no drop-outs, macro blocks, nada- everything is spot on perfect- just as it should be......my advice is: to anyone who got a DVC/DVX with problem heads- return it and hurt the manufacturer where it counts- the pocket! If everyone sends in their Pans and get's them either fixed or serviced at manufacturers cost (under warranty) or returns the unit from the get- the manufacturer may get the point that us "prosumers" will not accept 'workaround' fixes for something that should function perfectly from the get......Nikon too tried pushing the D1 series of cameras on professionals claiming no color issues when it did indeed have a magenta shifting problem which it later admitted........we just have to voice it whatever way we can- and to the manufacturers bottom line ($$$) ~it usually get's the message across.......so stop buying MQ tapes because you think your camcorder "has to" use them......if you wanna use them because of the increase robustness or professional archival or whatever- then that's fine- but to force an end user to buy a certain tape and brand in order for a camera to work is not an acceptable solution to me....

....just my opinion.

I'm glad the heads issue is behind me and I can now focus on getting great footage as this camera promises to deliver!

For me

_______The Saga Has Ended ___________

Suppose the dropout problem reappears after two weeks. Will B&H still accept the camera back in return? That would be the second time. They happen to be a good seller, but there has to be a limit.

The rest of us who bought from Buydig are wondering how good their return policy is. This seems like a good time to look up Panasonic's factory repair center phone # and address.

In the manual it says that the heads have to be replaced after 1000 hours. Well, what does this mean to the end user? Are some destined to fail at 500 hrs, or 250 hrs? That would be dreadful.

You sorta get suspicious when the manufacturer gives you a free cleaning tape as an accessory, but doesn't give you an MQ tape. What are we to read between the lines?

Marc you bring up some very good points. All worth looking into- this is the time to be an informed buyer and be aware of issues that may occur.

As for B&H here's how it goes: they allow returns on video equipment but only within 7 days of purchase and you must have ALL original papers and packaging as well as blank warranty cards- they inspect returns very carefully and anything that is not in pristine condition is subject to a hefty restocking fee or denial of return alltogether- nothing unacceptable but do remember this is an aspect of business they likely don't care for!!!! So you have 7 days to abuse your camcorder and make sure it's a top performing piece of equipment as to bring out any flaws if there are any- sounds bad but with only 7 days to return- there's limited time to find out about any problems....if you're a NYC native or within driving distance- they're the best bet in town. If you're gonna mail order I'd suggest checking into the site's sponsors and check for the better return policies- this might be the biggest aspect of purchasing merchandise of unknown quality.

I myself think this new DVC80 will be fine as i have purposely done everything that has caused issues with other people's DVX/DVC cameras to misbehave- everything from using consumer grade mini-DV tapes to using tapes that are not tightly wound and recording in LP mode and letterbox- yet this particular DVC has come through perfectly 100%- so I finally feel I have a perfect working DVC80- but only time will tell how good it really is- but all indicators point to a relaible unit. I will likely get the 2/4 year MACK warranty as it's probably worth it's weight in gold with these Panasonics.

I really hope Panasonic doesn't continue to have problems with the DV C/X series of camcorders as they truly are excellent pieces of video equipment worthy of the praise and accolades they have received.......I'm keeping my fingers crossed for my unit! Hope you guys get good results with yours.

1 More thing i'd like to ad. These forums are a great source for networking of information- but you have to keep in mind that most of the forum particiants have perfectly working DV camcorders but will vocally make note of improper working camcorders of which others will chime in about problems as well- it will come across as a plaque of problems but in reality it's a small slice of sold units of which likely 95%+ work perfectly......it's the small 5% of us that have problems that everyone reads about......so I'd hate to think I was personally bashing the DVC80 or DVX line, but more pointing out flaws which seem somewhat prevalent but to what extent is unknown....the fact that my current DVC works well is testament that not every DVC/DVX is affected with poor heads.....but that there are a number of units which do appear to have problems.

Nuff said!

Steve - I just watched your .mov of the problem. That is not typical tape drop out. I had that problem with my DVX when it was brand new. The pixelation was random. Yours was not. There was definitely a mechanical/electrical problem with your camera. I think this is a different issue than we've all been having with our heads getting clogged after a few minutes of use.

I'm glad you got a new camera and hope it serves you well.

Peter,

well I can only speak of the issues I had with my personal DVC and what you saw in that .mov was what I was experiencing, if that was not typical of the complaints here re: drop-outs etc- all the more reason to suspect head problems with these Panasonics....maybe there was/is some sort of quality control issue over at Pan that let a bunch of these models out with suspect heads- I just hope there are only a handful of them out there.

Can someone post a short clip with the drop-outs they've experienced?

Here's a short 1 minute video showcasing the new DVC80 and how well it's working for me- so far I am very pleased with this new DVC....much impressed!

http://stevenunez.com/video/dvc80sample.mov

Steve.. How did you acheive Film look with your DVC 80 film you showed??? Post Production i assume... I have a DVC 80 I got back in Early September It works great.. No Problems yet.. knock on wood. I am using Fuji DV film.. It works great!

Hi Scott,

I duplicated the clip directly over itself- removed the upper filed on the top clip and removed the lower field on the lower clip- I also used a gaussian blur at 20% and a reduced opacity of about 40% and changed the top clip's composite mode to "soft light"....this works really well in FCP and works really well in producing a film-look.

Steve:

Why did you not get a DVX100 if you are film looking your DVC80 footage?

Actually most of my work is nature videography which calls for the sharpest video image possible- I find the DVC80's 60i footage to be fantastic.....I merely film-looked the end portion to that posted clip as a way of showing the "film look" possibilty with a DVC80...

...I am now going to use the DVC80 as a way to compile DVD's of my custom motorcycle work for viewing at shows (In addition to the nature work)

here's my newest endeavor with the DVC80.....

http://bronxpowersports.com/cycles/Edscustomcruiser/edscustom.html