http://www.vimeo.com/746517

Please help me...
I recorded last night, and everything was too loud...
da** soundboard guy..
my fault, too, cause audio meter was fine, and the whole place was too loud that i couldn't tell if it was the speaks in the room or my camera.
i am editing with Premiere CS3, and i also have soundbooth.
Thank you ahead so much!

JJ

Nothing you can do with that.

there is no such thing as "too loud" (I love loud music)
What you are hearing is clipping. if the signal is higher than a device can handle, the peaks get clipped off. this can be very damaging to P.A. equipment. It could have been clipped in the main soundboard, and your levels could have appeared perfectly normal. If the signal was in fact clipped at the main board, the busic would have sounded much cleaner and louder had he not clipped it.
I would suggest a couple of things. first off, there is no way to save that signal that would be cost effective (if its possible at all). next time, remember, you can not trust anyone but yourself. if you get a live feed from anyone, make sure you have your own backup. the cameras on board mic set on auto gain would have given you more usable audio than what you ended up with. possibly get a small standalone recorder like the H2.

you fed line level into the camera set a mic level. it will clip as you found out even if the levels seem ok. ALWAYS ask what you are being fed, and better to start at line level first on the camera side. if the levels are good at line, thats what you are getting. if you see nothing or very little, its mic level and change. don't worry, we've all made this beginner mistake, ONCE !

there's not much you can do to fix it either. there is supposed to be a VERY expensive plugin to protools that can declip, but I haven't found anyone around who has it.

and FWIW, music can and often is too loud. My first indicator sound is too loud ? pain in my left ear. I mean real pain. hearing damage from excessive sound is VERY REAL. talk to anyone who was worked in the concert / music / event biz for 10 or more years and you'll get a very different opinion about "it can't be too loud". If I am shooting a show, I now always bring 30db cut ear plugs, and also provide them for crew. once you damage your hearing, it can not be fixed.

your right, hearing damage can result from too much volume/exposure. but from a technical standpoint of recording, it was a matter of someone not having the levels set properly. its possible for that camera to record clean sound with the band playing at 140 db

To answer that question you have to start from the top and follow it.

1. Did the mic capsule distort due to high SPL?
2. Did the audio distort after the mic capsule, but still in the mic electronics?
3. Did the audio distort at the preamp input or some intermediate stage?
4. Did the audio distort at the A/D converter?

Prolly left something out, but yes, I think with the right mic, pads and gear
you can record 140 dB SPL.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Another suggestion: monitor while recording with headphones. You'll hear real-time if the levels are too high and be able to correct live. You'll need a "real" pair of headphones, ones that fit over the ears (or maybe a set of earbuds that seal REAL well) so you can overcome the room sound and concentrate on the recorded sound levels. I bought a set of Sony MDR 7506 headphones on the strength of recommendations from the audio greybeards on this forum, and have never regretted it. Best $90 I ever spent for audio gear.

The real issue is that one person can't really do audio and video at the same time, particularly in a live venue.

Martin

Good point on the headphones. I've recently switched from the Sony MDR 7506 to the new Audio-Technica ATH- M50.

Regards,

Ty Ford

thank you so much for all the feedback..
i will do my best based on what everyone told me.
i had apple earbud on which are pretty nice. but it was really loud, i mean *really* loud.
bass was so strong that the footage was shaking.
I have sony mdr-v300 which is pretty good.
the show was shot by me as a fan, not being paid or anything, so it was hard for me to find someone who would do just audio. it would definitely helpful, though.
thank you all.

jj

On the headphones part... when doing live rock music, nearly all headphones don't work, you can't really hear anything worthwhile. The problem is they let in too much of the outside music, so then you play this game of trying to turn up your headphone output and then everything is just a mess...

There are a couple of solutions. First try using earphones designed for loud music such as the Etymotic 4 series : http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx

Or you can go the route that Glen Trew put together in the Remote Audio HN-7506 headset: http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=255&cat=109&page=1

Either way, you're knocking out 40+ dB of outside noise and that's what you have to do to monitor in loud venues.

Wayne

There is also these, that are custom molded to your ears. However, they are quite pricey...

http://www.ultimateears.com/_ultimateears/products/custom/ue10pro_description.php

Nothing you can do about that sound... it's hopeless. Find some one that taped the concert and replace the sound.

Wow !! what distortion pedal has that guitarist got ?

Man that stinks. I find a lot of the time the mixer doesn't even know the difference between mic and line level, let alone the difference between pro and consumer line level. They look at me like I have two heads when I ask. I usually assume it's line level, and if I find I'm not getting good levels with the gain cranked, try it at mic level. There's also the problem of distortion occuring further up the chain so even if you have everything matched it still sounds like crap.

I kinda gave a sign to soundboard guy to turn down mine , and he gave me his thumb up. i guess he didn't mean "good to go" instead "i will bring it up as much as possible so that it screw you over"
Tim Reynolds (the guitarist) has done mostly acoustic by himself, and it was the first time for me to film his new band that was created this year. I will what to do next time...
i am also thinking about getting a new set of headphone also.dont' know which one yet since i'm kinda tight on budget.
thank you all..

JJ

Guessing what he meant and casting shade on it because it screwed you up really isn't the point.

It could have been a lot of things, some of it your fault.

Write it off as a lesson. Learn more so next time you know what's going on.

Sure you can buy cheap headphones, but that's just another way to nail yourself. Get what you need to do the job and stop inviting failure. Sony MDR 7506 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50. You decide. One or the other.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Yep..TY.. JJ,..cam op needs headphones..... No fault of Sound board operator.
100% camera op. Sorry.
Sounds like line-to-mic overload. Should've notice a problem if you barely cracked open the gain pots and you got full scale.

I have a set of Audio Technica ATH-D40fs for use in loud environments. they are closed back headphones, and look similar to the ATH-M50 specs. the d40fs can be found for about half the price of the m50 at around 70 dollars I have sworn by the d40's for about 20 years now. I assume the m50 is a better set. if your short on cash, consider the d40. I am really curious as to the sound and performance difference between the two, I will probably buy an ATH-m50 the next time I need to replace mine.

Brooks,

Don't feel too bad. This is, perhaps, the most frequent audio problem on shoots. Run some tone, set a level, stop tone, hear some audio, hit record.

FOR EVERYONE: You can pretty much eliminate the problem by listening to the audio during tone. Line level tone has a little hair around it even at -20 when it's feeding a mic input. After sending tone, grab one of the mics set a normal level on the mixer and talk into the mic. Everything OK? Then you are PROBABLY fine. Are you doing split tracks - one mic to one channel, one to the other? Then make sure you check BOTH are really getting to their proper channels. (This is the second most frequent mistake.)

Mistake #3: Tap the on-camera mic to make sure you haven't switched it on by mistake. (Unless you intended to use it.)

Mistake #3a: The shooter goes off to shoot B-roll and switches to the on-camera mic. When he/she comes back, you cable up without checking. Oops! You just lost one side of your audio. Camera Ops are notorious for this. You just can't trust them. I've even had them try to tell me there must be something wrong with my cables.

They will also inadvertently change the audio input controls while going handheld during that B-roll capture and if you don't check when they get back, your levels may be WAY off. Solution: put a piece of gaffers tape over the controls immediately after setting levels. (NOT DUCT TAPE, GAFFERS TAPE!!!)

Some cameras don't let you hear a stereo split in the headphones. You can hear all left, all right or a mono mix, regardless of where you have your mixer pan pots set.

Weird JVC anomaly: Last week I was on a shoot with a JVC camera that only had one XLR in the rear. It had another one in the front that the on-camera mic plugged into. By habit and convention, you might normally throw the channel 1/2 switches to REAR because that's how most cameras are set up.

We weren't split tracking so it didn't make any difference, but had we been, I would have had to set one camera input to FRONT. How to tell? During audio setup with a mixer, after tone is set, bring up one mic on the mixer and pan that audio from one side to the other. If it goes away when you go to one side and the camera meters also show reduced level on that side, the camera input switches are probably not in the right position. If the levels are there, but you don't hear audio, the headphone monitor switch is probably not set to BOTH.

Regards,

Ty Ford

I have a set of Audio Technica ATH-D40fs for use in loud environments. they are closed back headphones, and look similar to the ATH-M50 specs. the d40fs can be found for about half the price of the m50 at around 70 dollars I have sworn by the d40's for about 20 years now. I assume the m50 is a better set. if your short on cash, consider the d40. I am really curious as to the sound and performance difference between the two, I will probably buy an ATH-m50 the next time I need to replace mine.

I tried the 40s when they came out -- didn't like them at all. They are a totally different beast than the M50.

Ty Ford

sigh
*adds the M50 to the wish list

Not even living in Paradise is without problems. :)

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty, have you used the M50's in a loud music setting? I haven't yet found a pair of standard studio style headphones I thought allowed me to hear enough of what I was capturing with the band blaring 90+ dB in the venue. That's why I switched to the Eytmotic 4 earphones.

Wayne

I have done a lot of work as a DJ and sound board operator, I can easily hit 120 db, and the d40 can be heard in that environment, although to expect to hear any type of detail in that environment is asking a bit much. I have tried headphones such as the hundred dollar sony's, and I can not hear them at all under those conditions.

I have done a lot of work as a DJ and sound board operator, I can easily hit 120 db,

Not around here you don't. ;-)

Our city ordinance prevents sound levels of anything above 85 dB, and trust me they are VERY strict about it. They give you a 2 dB padding, but the City of Austin won't cut anybody any slack. I was working the stage of Austin City Limits Music Festival one year and the police came close to shutting us down because the band's FOH engineer cranked up the levels to 90 dB. They warned him twice, before getting a bit more verbal about the issue.

But, I'm glad to hear that there some standard headphones that work in this environment. I was also mixing four inputs down to two and did need to hear the detail, so I'm still not sure they would have worked for me, but at least I know there are some other options now.

Wayne

Ty, have you used the M50's in a loud music setting? I haven't yet found a pair of standard studio style headphones I thought allowed me to hear enough of what I was capturing with the band blaring 90+ dB in the venue. That's why I switched to the Eytmotic 4 earphones.

Wayne

Hey Wayne,

no, but I'm going to guess that ANY properly fit in-ear will block more ambi than over the ear phones. I haven't tried the eytmotics either.

I hear they are great but are problematic to put in and take out so you can hear what's going on around you rather than whatever the mics are picking up. Like when the client walks up to you and starts talking, thinking you can hear. What's you take on that.

Regards,

Ty Ford

I hear they are great but are problematic to put in and take out so you can hear what's going on around you rather than whatever the mics are picking up. Like when the client walks up to you and starts talking, thinking you can hear. What's you take on that.


They give you two types of ends. A foam piece which I personally hate, and these white eartips. The trick to those is to get them wet first so you can slide them in. I went with custom ear molds, which are a breeze to get in and out.

However, as you point out, they are not without their problems. You'll hear what the mics pick up, but not what they person standing next to you is saying (unless it's through your mics). That can be an issue, but really when you're in a place where you have 85-100 dB of audible sound blasting around you. Most of the time you're screaming at each other anyhow.

Wayne

God saved me!!!
There was a guy (one of the fans that does loooots of audio recording for Dave Matthews Band and Tim Reynolds) was there recording the audio...
I finally found that out at the fan website and asked him if I Could use his audio and he was cool with it... wow... saved me BIG time.

http://www.vimeo.com/764150

here is the highlight clips with NEW ADJUSTED SUPPOSED TO BE audio.
thank you so much for all your help.
i am getting new sets of headphones next week.

jj