Please use this thread for all Q&A regarding the new XL H1S and XL H1A.

Start here: http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/watchdog.php


Official Canon USA press release (http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20080410_xlh1.html) (full text below)

More XL H1S information: XL H1S product pages at Canon USA (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=17035)

More XL H1A information: XL H1A product pages at Canon USA (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=17061)

pages from Canon Japan:
http://cweb.canon.jp/newsrelease/2008-04/pr-xlh1s.html
http://cweb.canon.jp/prodv/lineup/xlh1s/comparison.html

The following is a press release from NAB2008:
--------------------------------------------

CANON'S NEW XL H1S AND XL H1A HD CAMCORDERS PROVIDE
ADVANCED FEATURES FOR ENHANCED CONTROL AND OPERATION

New 20x HD Video Lens, Enhanced Image Control and Other User-Requested Refinements Serve the Needs of Event Video, Documentary Filmmaking and Pro Markets

LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., April 10, 2008 – Building on the success of its acclaimed XL H1 High Definition (HD) camcorder, Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging technology, has introduced the new shoulder mount XL H1S and XL H1A HD camcorders, which include new advanced features requested by professional users for improved operation and image control.

Canon's new XL H1S and XL H1A camcorders, which will be on display at the 2008 NAB Show (Booth #SU3020), feature an updated Canon 20x HD Video Lens with three independent manual adjustment rings (focus, zoom and iris), as well as enhanced manual focus and zoom control. Additionally, the XL H1S and XL H1A incorporate an expanded array of controls for customizing the image, display, and operation to match individual needs. Utilizing the industry's most affordable digital video recording media – HDV tapes – both models are ideal for such long-form production applications as wedding and event videography, digital filmmaking, documentary production and media education.

Both the new XL H1S and XL H1A deliver superior HD image quality with their Genuine Canon XL interchangeable lens system, three 1/3 inch, 1.67 Megapixel CCD Image Sensors, and Canon's proprietary DIGIC DVII HD Image Processor. Both models also feature a durable six-pin IEEE 1394 terminal, providing a more robust connection to external hardware.

The XL H1S model provides expanded connectivity by incorporating HD-SDI (SMPTE 299M)/SD-SDI (SMPTE272M) output with embedded audio and time code, providing a raw, uncompressed 1.485 Gbps signal for demanding live production environments, SMPTE Time Code input and output terminals, and a Genlock output terminal for multi-camera shooting situations.

"The new XL H1S and XL H1A HD camcorders continue to meet the needs of producers, event videographers, and digital cinematographers with superior Canon optical and imaging technology, and with the most cost-effective medium for high-quality HD video capture and storage, which is HDV tape," noted Yuichi Ishizuka, senior vice president and general manager, Consumer Imaging Group, Canon U.S.A. "Canon's unsurpassed quality is seen in our broadcast HDTV lenses and the Canon EOS digital photography cameras. This know-how directly benefits the quality of Canon professional and consumer HD camcorders. Recently, our consumer camcorders claimed the number-one position in total high definition camcorder unit sales above $200 in both January and February of 2008, according to The NPD Group's Retail Tracking Service."

New Genuine Canon 20x HD Video Zoom Lens III
Leveraging Canon's expertise as a worldwide leader in optics, the XL H1S and XL H1A feature a redesigned Genuine Canon 20x HD Video Zoom Lens equipped with Canon's XL lens mount. The XL lens mount enables users to interchange lenses, such as Canon's optional 6x wide-angle lens, Canon EF photographic lenses, and many other lenses for specialized image capture. The XL H1S and XL H1A HD camcorders' new Genuine Canon 20x HD Video Zoom Lens III offers independent manual zoom, focus and iris rings, which can operate simultaneously. These rings have been redesigned for easy access and comfortable operation. Other innovations of the lens include: three sensitivity settings for the manual focus ring; fast and slow zoom speeds; smooth movement when starting or stopping zooms; and selectable rotational angles between the tele and wide ends of the lens zoom. Simultaneous zoom and focus control are also possible in either Manual or Auto Focus mode. The new Genuine Canon 20x HD Video Zoom Lens III incorporates aspherical lenses to reduce flare and fluorite lens elements to minimize chromatic aberration. Additionally, the lens features Canon's SuperRange Optical Image Stabilization (OIS) system, which corrects camera shake instantly on hand-held shots at full telephoto, shots taken from a moving vehicle, or other challenging situations.

User-Definable Operation
The new camcorders provide users with an unprecedented range of image/color settings, camera-control functions, and viewfinder display choices. Video can be captured and output in multiple frame rates to meet the demands of diverse production assignments. These frame rates include: 60i for mainstream production; 30F for perfect frame grabs or Web delivery; and 24F for emulating the look of motion-picture film. Canon's Factory Service Center can also provide an optional upgrade to add 50i and 25F frame rates. The camcorders can be switched in all frame rates between 1080-line 16:9 aspect ratio HD video and 480-line 4:3 aspect ratio SD video (or 576 lines in 50i or 25F mode).

Both the XL H1S and XL H1A HD camcorders provide Total Image Control for customizing image and color settings, with a total of 23 custom presets available for image-quality adjustment, with the range of image color presets extended from +/-9 to +/-50 steps for fine-tuning the picture (an important feature for achieving the visual subtleties favored by cinematographers). Custom image pre-set files can be stored to an onboard SD/SDHC Memory Card and shared with another Canon XL H1S, XL H1A, or with Canon XH G1 and XH A1 HD camcorders for seamless multi-camera production work.

Custom camera functions and operation settings total 21 items and 33 sub-items for achieving creative "looks" for footage. Among these new functions are: "shockless" white balance for smooth, color-accurate dissolves between two pre-set white balance values (adjustable from 2000K to 15000K); the ability to increase gain in 0.5dB increments from 0dB up to +18dB, and there is also additional -3dB and +36dB settings. A selective noise-reduction function is available for reducing the noise in targeted color areas, which is important for blue/green chroma-key applications in special effects work and for shooting insufficiently illuminated backgrounds.

Using the custom display settings feature, a camera operator can tailor the display to their shooting style. These include 22 items and 40 sub-items for selection of status information that can be shown in the XL H1S and XL H1A HD camcorders' 2.4" combination EVF/LCD monitor.

Audio Capture and A/V Connectivity
User-requested refinements in the XL H1S and XL H1A audio capabilities include: two-channel audio performance; two built-in XLR terminals with separate audio-input sensitivity settings; the ability to simultaneously record sound from an external microphone and the supplied internal microphone; line output level switching; an audio (manual) limiter; a new metal headphone jack for reliable connectivity. Another important new feature is embedded audio (and SMPTE time code) in the XL H1S HD camcorder's uncompressed HD-SDI/SD-SDI digital output via an industry-standard BNC connector.

Other improved connections on the XL H1S and XL H1A HD camcorders include an external LCD monitor output for critical focus confirmation on an optional larger monitor simultaneous RCA and BNC video output for added monitoring and dubbing convenience, and a photo-flash accessory shoe to support use of Canon EX Series Speedlites.

The new Canon XL H1S HD camcorder is scheduled to be available in June for an estimated retail price of $8,999, and the XL H1A, which will have an estimated retail price of $5,999, is scheduled to be available in mid-July.

Wow, I am truly disappointed at this news. As a Canon user and faithful customer of the XL series for the past 10 years, I feel this "update" is a bit late and seems odd in today's growing and pushing market to tapeless.

Obviously some improvements were made, but I think Canon just lost me to Sony and the EX1...

Definitely incremental not revolutionary. Lots of useful changes though for people who already are using the Canon systems so it may be enough to keep the faith. There also may be more annoucements which make the rest of the system a little more competitive with Sony EX-1.
I think they would have had to scrap the XL series if they went to 1/2 inch chips or start another product line.

Wow, I am truly disappointed at this news. As a Canon user and faithful customer of the XL series for the past 10 years, I feel this "update" is a bit late and seems odd in today's growing and pushing market to tapeless.

Obviously some improvements were made, but I think Canon just lost me to Sony and the EX1...

Don't knock the camera yet. For interlaced shooting the Canon cameras are pretty much equal in terms of detail.

The EX1 is also a bear to hold for long periods of time. It's still hard to beat a shoulder mounted camera for long term handheld shooting.

Also as nice as CMOS is the Canon cameras do not have any of the CMOS issues such as wobble and warped and stretched. If you shoot in an environment with a lot of rapidly changing lights such as stage productions or concerts then a CCD will give you much better results. I love the look of CMOS but you really do have to be carefull of what type of stuff you shoot.

The EX1 may have a detail edge for progressive shooting but the 24F mode on the Canon is nothing to laugh at. Once you get past all the pointless tech talk and specs and just work with it it can be a very high quality fluid format.

Finally, a cheaper shoulder mount from canon, The price isn't much lower then a first gen h1 but it has the newer features AND its a shoulder mount. Sign me up! My wrist is happy. From what I have read the ergonomics of the canon shoulder mounts still leave much to be desired with the front heavy design but after strapping my nnovia unit to the back along with my wireless receivers I figure that should help bring it a little more in balance.

Well this definitely is an incremental upgrade.

I'm disappointed that there is no new hi-res viewfinder. I suppose I'll wait till next week with NAB as there may be more announcements, before I say anything.

For all I know, this could be like Apple behavior - release something before they release the bigger thing.

I found some interesting new features on Canon-USA's website announcing the new cameras:

Click on the following, then click on "Monitoring" to view some of the new monitoring options.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=17035#ModelFeaturesAct

Looks like we got some of our firmware wishes granted.

Looks like we got some of our firmware wishes granted.

Yeah, the gain increments have been improved.

I am relieved initially as the new features would be nice, but do not put me in a position to "have to" upgrade. This is definitely deserving of an "s" name as it is more of an upgrade to the H1 and less of a "new" model.

The possible saving grace is that as long as canon continues the XL series camera line, we still have the chance that a manual HD lens will be released and a hi-rez viewfinder.

These 2 things seem to be major reasons why many do not like the Canon series. Hopefully these will become available eventually for all of the H1 series cameras.

Peace.

Now that all three functions in the lens can be controlled simulaneously, I wonder if the camera can focus while it is zooming?

Now that all three functions in the lens can be controlled simulaneously, I wonder if the camera can focus while it is zooming?

I think that is the exact reason they added this feature right?

Also, perhaps this is the secret of the XL-H1 1.06 firmware. Perhaps they updated it for compatibility with the newer lens....if you could ever get your hands on one without the body!

Just a theory.

G....if you could ever get your hands on one without the body!

Just a theory.

Give it a few weeks after release and someone will have a broke body with the lens on ebay

In SD can both new models shoot (or be factory modified to shoot) PAL and NTSC.

Sorry just re-read specs and the cameras can do both formats

6 pin firewire! About time!!!

JR

I personnally really like Canon's idea to create a body version with no HD-SDI. For those of us who don't need that kind of output and wanna upgrade to a brand-spankin'-new XL series body, not having to pay 3 more grands for that option is good news!

But is SD-HDI the only difference between the 2 bodies? Did I miss something else here?

Can't wait for reviews, maybe this time I'll upgrade my XL2!

I wonder why they haven't upgraded the image processing chip... The press release says it's using the "DIGIC DVII", which is the same one they've been using (I believe), whereas Canon has been touting the DIGIC DVIII in their latest SLR cameras.

Finally, a cheaper shoulder mount from canon, The price isn't much lower then a first gen h1 but it has the newer features AND its a shoulder mount. Sign me up! My wrist is happy. From what I have read the ergonomics of the canon shoulder mounts still leave much to be desired with the front heavy design but after strapping my nnovia unit to the back along with my wireless receivers I figure that should help bring it a little more in balance.

It was a disappointment to me after the revamp of the product line from XL1s to XLH1 that the "partial-shoulder" mount design was retained. At the very least I was hoping that a modular rear section would be designed that could convert it into a true shoulder mount (plus pro battery mount, wireless slots etc). JVC really got that one right with their HD100/200 series.

disappointing upgrades to say the least...

...Canon has been touting the DIGIC DVIII in their latest SLR cameras.Incorrect. Their D-SLRs use Digic III. That's a photo DSP. Digic DV II is a video DSP.

Okay... Canon's HD cameras are great cameras. They do 1080p and they have 24p/30p modes on top of having some of the best 60i around. But, things are changing now in the industry. We have a 4K camera system which can be had for nearly twice the price of the XLH1S, there is a $6,000 handycam camera that has, arguably, the best 1080p resolution images, the Sony EX1, Panasonic has just greatly lowered the price of the 2/3" HPX500 P2 broadcast camera and added a $2,000 rebate on top of that, thus making for about an $8,000 2/3" camera, and NAB is just a few days away with potentially even more announcements, particularly with tapeless and, perhaps, 2K options *cough*Scarlet*cough*. All Canon has done with the XLH1S and XLH1A is basically sat on their hands.

Neither option makes much sense, the XHG1, for quality sakes, can be had for about the same price as the XLH1A and offer the same image quality with uncompressed HD-SDI output in a smaller body. The XLH1S doesn't offer much more over the XLH1, other than the refined lens.

The only way you could make either camera make sense is with tapeless recording but even that isn't an option. They could have simply added a tapeless option along with HDV like Sony has done with the Z7U or, if they really had to do it at the last minute, add an AVCHD recording mode to SD cards like the HF10 and HF100 have. But no, Canon didn't do either of those things. If you went with a third party solution, like the Convergent Designs CF recorder, you're adding $5,000 on top of the $9,000 XLH1S, which equals $14,000, just a few thousand shy of RED territory.

Don't get me wrong, the XLH1S and XLH1A aren't bad cameras but then again they're not good enough either compared to the competition. At the end of the day, the competition just has more flexible options. Hopefully Canon has other announcements at NAB.

We have a 4K camera system which can be had for nearly twice the price of the XLH1S, there is a handycam camera that has, arguably, the best 1080p resolution images, the Sony EX1, Panasonic has just greatly lowered the price of the 2/3" HPX500 P2 broadcast camera and added a $2,000 rebate on top of that, thus making for about an $8,000 2/3" camera, and NAB is just a few days away with potentially even more announcements, particularly with tapeless and, perhaps, 2K options *cough*Scarlet*cough*.

Please, the Red is not 18K...its more like 40-80K when you get all the stuff to make it work (lenses, on-boards,MBs,FFs etc,etc). Canon has always done a small upgrade before it makes a Big change. Also, manufacturers tend to use rebates to help move product. I could go on but I won't.

Jim Martin
Birns & Sawyer Inc

The only way you could make either camera make sense is with tapeless recording but even that isn't an option. Tapeless recording options for either camera already exist... FireStore FS-C, nNovia QuickCapture, etc.

And let's not forget the Convergent Design XDR Flash recorder to be shown at NAB and shipping sometime in May.

OK not to be picky or start fights here but the red comparison is kind of a fair one. IF you add the convergent design box and a 35mm adapter (I would add the mini 35c) you bring the whole thing up to around 23k vs the 20 or so for a comparably equipped red. You can then add more cost to the RED (MB FF, Sticks, Lenses etc.) but it would be the same stuff you'd need to add to the canon.

That being said, being able to do long form work (I've had three requests this year already to do round table discussions) where you don't need 4k or 35mm DOF make the canon a great deal, I don't think this camera is the best choice available anymore for cinematic work, but I think it's one of the best options for documentary and long form work.

(and I will say I'm not terribly impressed with the upgrade either but it does seem remarkably similar to the xl1 to xl1s upgrade so it's kinda to be expected.)

While that is true....now one is looking at spending $14K (with the XDR), for that price you can go get 2 EX1's, or for just a bit more have 2 Z27's both of which have direct to media card capture systems.

I was enamored for a moment, and then the moment passed, especially since my plan is to have 2 identical cameras, which means an upgrade budget of $28K!

....sorry canon, now i'm sure i'm upgrading away from your line.

Sincerly,
One disappointed XL owner

At first glance, the upgrades from the XL H1 to the XL H1S appeared to be welcome improvements, but limited to a few improvements.

As I have dug deeper, some of the less obvious improvements enhance the value of the upgrade.

It is nice that we can use our original XL H1 presets, as well as the XH A1 type presets. Thus we can easily match to a XH A1/G1.

It is nice that we now have better audio options, such as the ability to use an xlr and non-xlr mic at the same time.

The embedded audio and timecode are most welcome, but are obvious, essential improvements.

It is nice that we now have variable peaking.

If it is proven that we can now zoom and focus that the same time, this is a huge improvement. The lens functions are now more customizable, such as the amount of rotation to achieve zoom or focus.

The iris ring on the lens is very welcome.

I need to learn more about the histogram and SDI bitmap. In either case, we did not have these on the XL H1 (as far as I know). The same applies to the F Stop / Gray display.

The peaking feature now has variable gain and frequency. The maginifing function can now be recorded.

I like the idea of being able to assign names to custom presets. (I am assuming that these are now displayable.)

I love the idea of having audio limiters.

My point is that at first glance, there do not seem to be many improvements, but actually there are.

I fully agree that this is an upgrade, as opposed to a new 1/2" or 2/3" camera.

As I read another page of the USA - Canon's website, I found another desirable feature.

The gain settings from 0 db to +18 db can be fine tuned in 0.5db increments. I think this may come in handy. Of course, we now have a +36 db gain settins also

Gain Settings (-3dB, 0dB, +3dB, + 6dB, +12dB, +18dB, +36dB, with fine tuning in 0.5dB increments from 0dB to +18dB)

And, we now have an AGC (Automatic Gain Contol) limit as an option. I feel that this could be very useful.

No HDMI port on the XL H1A? How can we mate it with the new Cineform recorder? This would have possibly been a killer combination for us "fast" motion folks that don't want some of the problems inherent with HDV.

Expanded zoom speed range -- fastest snap is 1.2 sec -- slowest crawl is five minutes -- end to end throughout entire focal length.

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20080410_xlh1.html

Announced at NAB, above is the press release.

Jon

Bugger got excited just saw the other thread....

Apologies

I love the new ability to adjust gain in .5 dB increments between 0-18 dB. Wish I had it on my A1.

Maybe I am wrong....sounds like a XH-A1 in a shoulder mount and a XH G1 as well for the second introduction albeit interchangeable lens capability.

I agree with many of you....this is just an upgrade...not a new camera.

Interesting if you can just buy the body....or just buy the new lens.

I'm not familiar with Canon enough...but I'll be amazing if they show a NEW HD camera...with tapeless recording.

Two days and counting !

Apologies to my last post....it was answered in the Watchdog link.

Can't buy the lens or body by themselves.

Well...kinda of stinks. You can buy the 6x...but not the new 20x. :(

I think it's great marketing strategy. A nice upgrade, as they did with the XL1 to XL1s, and just as Sony does with their 2/3" chip cameras with the "A" models. There's nothing here that makes your XL H1 obsolete, but if a person is going to buy a new one, it's got some desireable improvements. The product is evolving as it should.

Also, from a marketing strategy, lots of people who like the XL form but are put off by the cost can now talk themselves into spending $6K to get it. And, it gets Canon more competitive with Sony's Z7, which is the same price and has interchangeable lenses.

It's not the same price (or in the same category) as the EX1 when you consider the cost of recording media, not to mention the time it takes for all the data management you have to do when going tapeless. In my case, I have to have some safe means of storage for everything I shoot. That would mean loading all the EX footage, then, using the $2500 XDCAM disc burner, making discs of everything so I could store them...as I do tapes. In my case it's not the cost of going tapeless and buying some device for archiving so much as it is the time and hassle of having to load footage and then output it to something as safe as tape. If I go out of town for a week's shoot, I may use 20 or more hour tapes. That's a lot of SXS cards, or a lot of hours in a motel room, plus taking a laptop and an XDCAM disc burner or backup drives, dealing with all that footage, loading it then making back up copies. After a long day shoot on the road, I don't want to work half the night.

I'm not knocking tapeless, but it's not for everybody and won't be for me until I can shoot an hour on some device and stick it in a box on a shelf as I do with tapes and not have to delete the files and reuse the media. For people who want to go tapeless, there is the EX. If Canon wanted to design and manufacture a 1/2" chip tapeless camera, that would be a whole new system and have nothing to do with the XL series. I'm glad the XL series is evolving in a logical fashion. Maybe in another year or so they'll evolve the XH series and give lucky new purchasers the ability to turn on and off the OIS without having to go into the menu.

I am completely happy with the new model.....primarily because it doesn't add anything significant to make me want to sell my H1 and buy it! Seriously I have a problem with new equipment and had the H1s been something revolutionary I'd have to have it! Not logically...the compulsive side of me.

I evaluated the features and realized that for the most part, everything is enhanced usability. At the end of the day, the camera head is going to put out the same image quality as the H1/A1/G1. Sure there a few new tweaks but the image will be about the same. I realize the gain +/- .5 degree increments could be helpful....but realistically I always shoot at 0 or -3 unless I am in dire straights.

As I said in an earlier thread....this just reinforces my investment in the H1...better chance of new accessires now.

Peace.

Incorrect. Their D-SLRs use Digic III. That's a photo DSP. Digic DV II is a video DSP.

Chris - thanks for correcting - I hadn't noticed that they were differentiating with 'DV'

Looks like we got some of our firmware wishes granted.

That's what I was thinking. It's as if when they got wind of them, and then many of those wishes were just put into a new product instead of granting us the firmware upgrades that are... at the very least... possible to do.

Not a happy camper :-\ A real disappointment, in my opinion.

Okay... Canon's HD cameras are great cameras. They do 1080p and they have 24p/30p modes on top of having some of the best 60i around. But, things are changing now in the industry. We have a 4K camera system which can be had for nearly twice the price of the XLH1S, there is a $6,000 handycam camera that has, arguably, the best 1080p resolution images, the Sony EX1, Panasonic has just greatly lowered the price of the 2/3" HPX500 P2 broadcast camera and added a $2,000 rebate on top of that, thus making for about an $8,000 2/3" camera, and NAB is just a few days away with potentially even more announcements, particularly with tapeless and, perhaps, 2K options *cough*Scarlet*cough*. All Canon has done with the XLH1S and XLH1A is basically sat on their hands.

Neither option makes much sense, the XHG1, for quality sakes, can be had for about the same price as the XLH1A and offer the same image quality with uncompressed HD-SDI output in a smaller body. The XLH1S doesn't offer much more over the XLH1, other than the refined lens.

The only way you could make either camera make sense is with tapeless recording but even that isn't an option. They could have simply added a tapeless option along with HDV like Sony has done with the Z7U or, if they really had to do it at the last minute, add an AVCHD recording mode to SD cards like the HF10 and HF100 have. But no, Canon didn't do either of those things. If you went with a third party solution, like the Convergent Designs CF recorder, you're adding $5,000 on top of the $9,000 XLH1S, which equals $14,000, just a few thousand shy of RED territory.

Don't get me wrong, the XLH1S and XLH1A aren't bad cameras but then again they're not good enough either compared to the competition. At the end of the day, the competition just has more flexible options. Hopefully Canon has other announcements at NAB.

For me, there is not much more to add than this.
I think it's clear that in the light of the other companies evolving very quickly to higher features, Canon is a bit behind now...

Behind, yes.

But they still have the best HDV quality of all companies. And that has not changed. Not for the old XL-H1, XH-A1, XH-G1 and these new camcorders. Canon has a three year product release cycle and the XL-H1 has only been out there for two years. So I am confident we can expect an XL-H1 successor somewhere in 2009. And believe me, it will be much improved. They might even manage to pull a trick to use their DSLR photo lenses.

Everyone is calling for CMOS, tapeless and 1/2" chips but all these things need to be developed further. CMOS is not perfect yet and has some shortcomings, 1/2" is possible but requires (I suppose) other lenses. Is this desirable? And for tapeless -- that is just getting started and also needs development. SxS and P2 cards are very expensive. I hope that Canon goes Compact Flash card as those are very cheap, well made and are successfully used in photography for many years by professionals. The Convergent Design XDR flash recorder also uses normal CompactFlash cards.

I hope Canon or another company will shortly come with a Compact Flash recorder for under $2,000 and so we will have both tape and tapeless in one camera for a reasonable price. The best of both worlds. I shoot documentary and also events and for that purpose, tapeless is not suited. Unless you buy for like $5,000 in SxS or P2 cards. I can wait a while.

I think people are always looking for the next big thing but in the meantime we should enjoy the gear that we already have. The XL-H1 has shortcomings but is very nice camera with very good image quality. Most people deliver things in SD or on the web and people will hardly notice if it was shot on an EX-1 or XL-H1. I myself can also be blamed for this.

I think my next camera will be a 2/3" camera because they have good ergonomics and there is plenty of choice. Also, the investment in lenses is heavy but you can use them much longer and on multiple cameras. But for now, I have decided to enjoy my XL-H1 for all its goodness.

Is the new manual lens still the free spinning type? I didn't see the words "repeatable focus" or "focus marks", and the lens barrel looks like the former model - no markings - nada...

I hope I just missed it in the techno speak and it is a real lens like the EX1!

Lonnie

I hope I just missed it in the techno speak and it is a real lens like the EX1!

Lonnie

Don't think so. It may be an improvement over the XLh1 lens but it is still the same servo design. If there is any hope for it, it is the fact that you can supposedly customize the response time when you spin it. So you might be able to make it a little quicker or a little slower depending on your tastes.....but I don't think you will be able to make it have hard stops.

Not trying to change the subjet, but what would you guys think if Canon would do something like Sony has done with the HVR-Z7U, and pair it with a memory card recorder like the HVR-MRC1. I would be lining up for one in a second.

Lonnie, you have repeatable focus and distance readouts, but they're in the viewfinder, not on the lens. Same thing basically.

hi all,

I think Reason for Canon made small incerements over H1 is they are working on new camera has AVHC codec for tapeless recording option. now they are gaining time with this upgrade.

Alkim

The cost of tapeless archiving point mentioned a few post prior makes no sense to me. Harddrives are so cheap now that they are actually less expensive to store on than high quality mini DV tapes. And yes, harddrives fail, but tapes break as well. In truth, I've had tapes break, but can't recall *knock on wood* ever having a harddrive fail.

As for the Red costing $40K to $80K, that's also misleading to me. I think a lot of Red users don't pimp out their Red and get great results. They even post on the Red forum, if this statement is doubted.

As for the Red costing $40K to $80K, that's also misleading to me. I think a lot of Red users don't pimp out their Red and get great results. They even post on the Red forum, if this statement is doubted.

Well, I had XL1 to XL H1 cameras and now a RED, so feel able to comment this. First of all, I would say the real cost of RED comparable to XL H1 package is about $23.000 -$25.000 including the Birger EF-adapter (which starts to ship in the near future) BUT without any lens. However, if one has Canon EF-lenses, the Birger EF-adapter should be a fine solution.

In my case starting to shoot with RED was easier than with the XL H1. Still, other people may have found it the other way around. When I got the XL H1, I spent a lot of time --several days-- fine tuning the CPs to get neutral colors. The usei interface of RED is rather intelligent and easy to learn. To get great images ... well ... with any camera it takes time to learn to push the best out of the equipment.

I think Lauri has a great point. While by all means there is somethig to fine tuning a custom preset to get a desired look, it's equally as great if not better to be able to simply record in raw and get whatever look you want.

Again, if you only plan on buying a camera to shoot movies then you should buy a Red. On the other hand if you only plan on shooting movies you probably should just rent a camera because you can get a pimped out package for a month or so for less then the cost of buying the red body alone. I don't think red is practical for running and gunning (maybe scarlet will be, whatever it ends up being) but for ENG I've had great results with the canon and obviously it can shoot a movie.

So while I think it's a fair comparison as far as strictly cine-style shooting goes When I buy a camera I want something that I can use for as many different things as possible, with the xl-series I've had that. If I shoot another movie with a budget over 50k I'll start looking at other options but until then the canon has been a great tool and a great investment for me. Hopefully one day I'll only shoot movies and never do another Doc, or event shoot or anything and then I'll buy a red (or whatever the equivalent is) but if I'm going to still try and cover all my bases the canon is the better choice.

But yeah the updates are still pretty week.

note: if someone wants to trade me a red with lenses and storage for THE xl-h1 that shot "the signal" I will retract all of my above comments and say how I love shooting ENG with the red ;)