I just get new CPU/mobo - super fast Quad Q9450 with 12 MB of cache memory on it and SSE4 instuction for video encoding; 4 GB of PAM and fast Nvidia 8800GTS (with 640MB RAM ); my mobo runs 1333 MHZ. Prety decent system BUT... when I edit HDV video in Vegas preview rate is just 13-14 fps!!!!!!!!! When I play that HDV video in WM player or VLC it plays full resolution 29 fps. What's wrong with Vegas!? Only time when I have 29fps preview is when I set it to Best/Quarter. It sucks.

Yea, Vegas sucks.

You should have bought Avid Xpress Pro, or Edius Broadcast. Then you'd be living large...

I just get new CPU/mobo - super fast Quad Q9450 with 12 MB of cache memory on it and SSE4 instuction for video encoding; 4 GB of PAM and fast Nvidia 8800GTS (with 640MB RAM ); my mobo runs 1333 MHZ. Prety decent system BUT... when I edit HDV video in Vegas preview rate is just 13-14 fps!!!!!!!!! When I play that HDV video in WM player or VLC it plays full resolution 29 fps. What's wrong with Vegas!? Only time when I have 29fps preview is when I set it to Best/Quarter. It sucks.

I suggest you only set the preview to Best when you want to capture a still. We always monitor video using "Preview/Auto".

I'm sure there is a minor setting that should help. Vegas uses only cpu and you should have plenty. Maybe more help over at the Sony site.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/default.asp

With such a computer, you should get full speed preview in "preview" mode. Here's how:

1. Make absolutely sure that you use the M2T files with the right "Project Properties" template (e.g. 1080/60i). If you don't use the right template, then Vegas' speed decreases as it has to also calculate the video resize.
2. A faster editing way would be to set the temp folder on one drive, and the footage itself on another (NOT USB/firewire drives though, Vegas doesn't always like that on *some* systems). But this is just optional.
3. Right click on the preview window and de-select the "Scale video..." option. Make sure that "Simulate device..." option is selected. Set the preview quality to "preview (auto)" (you don't need "Best" quality to edit, the default is "preview(auto) on vegas).
4. Go to Vegas' settings/preferences and on the Video tab tell it to use 4 or 8 threads. If you experience random crashes, go back to 2 or 4 threads. The fewer threads the more stability, but the more threads the more speed (for a hyperthreaded/multi-processing/multi-core CPU like yours, that is). It's a trade off until Sony fixes all their multi-threaded bugs.
5. If you are using 32bit editing, then it will be naturally slower. Because of that, I personally use 8bit editing (selectable in the "Project Properties" window of Vega Pro).

I use a three+ years old P4 3Ghz with 3 GB RAM, which is much slower than your multi-core PC in terms of CPU speed. On the "preview (auto)" quality, I don't get *any* dropped frames, unless I add plugins. When you add plugins the speed naturally decreases.

I hope this helps.

with preview "best/auto" and do not scale the video I have 16fps in hdv
I use 8bit of course and 2 threads; I don't know what is wrong!

>with preview "best/auto"

As I said, use "Preview/auto", not "best". What you get, 16fps, is normal for "best" quality (which is overkill for the most part of editing). And make sure you used the right Project Properties template too and the other things I mentioned above. Please put all of the above suggestions into action before judging vegas.

the thing is that system is powerful enough to play such HDV file in full resolution on 24" moitor 29fps; so it must be some limitation in Vegas when if placed in timeline (not using any filters) will play only 13-14fps - this is not enough. Now, this is strange: I closed preview window and render HDV pragment to HDV 1080 mpeg2 file and I see that all 4 processors work btwn. 72% and 88%??? All other programs are not running; why they not utilize more than 88% power??? just to run windows itself doesn't require 12-28% x4 cpu power. Strange.....

It's not Vegas. It'll be your configuration or projects settings.

I run an edit machine half as powerful as yours and have absolutely no problems cutting HDV. Either m2t or intermediate AVI's. All play beautifully.

Naturally, if you've got a stack of colour correction going on or complex transitions then it will start jerking around. But, find me an edit system that won't with a ton of FX going on for the price if Vegas!

Sadly I'm not computer literate enough to help find your answer! But I'm pretty sure it's not Vegas.

I'd be willing to bet he hasn't adjusted his threads to one per core. That should make a significant difference.

>play such HDV file in full resolution on 24" moitor 29fps

You don't understand. Vegas is NOT a player. When Vegas loads an .m2t file on its timeline, it does A LOT MORE than just "playing the video back for you to view". This "a lot more" work is done under the hood, and it's done for editing purposes to help the Vegas engine to do editing stuff (sorry for the funny sentences, I have to write as simple as I can so you can understand). You use Vegas to edit, not to watch videos. Different rules apply, because Vegas is an editor and doesn't play with the same rules a media player plays.

So, because of this, don't expect Vegas to playback your .m2t files in 100% speed on the "Best (auto)" format, not for another 5 years maybe.

You should not be using the "Best" preview option to edit, unless you want to view something in its finest detail (e.g. when you are color grading). For any other editing purpose you should be using "preview" quality in the preview window, NOT "best". And you said that you have a 24" monitor. If this is a 1920x1200 monitor and you use it as a "preview second monitor", then please use "preview (full)" instead of "preview (auto)".

And again, don't forget the rest of the suggestions I gave you. All this will help you edit at 100% speed, until you add plugins/transitions (then, the speed will decrease again -- and that's normal).

Finally, another pointer: on a 1920x1200 monitor that you would use as a secondary preview monitor, you will get DECREASED performance than if you were only using a small monitor, or the preview window as a small window. The reason for this is because the graphics card has to work EXTRA HARD bandwidth-wise to deliver 1080p video, rather than a resized version of the video. When I used to not have a second monitor and used the preview window at 1/4 of the overall size of the video (640x360), I would have the "preview (auto)" size run at 100% speed. But when I got this 1920x1200 monitor, the graphics card has to work so hard to deliver so many megabytes per second to both monitors (and full screen 1080p video on one of the secondary monitor), that I had to go down to "draft (full)" to get the speed I used to have before. Now, your PC is faster than mine, so I do expect you to be able to watch "preview (full)" on a secondary 1080p preview monitor at full speed with your PC (after you have followed the rest of my suggestions and have not added plugins/transitions that is).

I hope I didn't confuse you enough. :D

this is very interesting....
preview windows scaled to 800x450
- with Preview set to Best/Auto without scaling, Vegas shrinks it to 640x420 size and plays it blury at 26fps (very bad quality)
- with Preview set to Best/Full and WITH scaling it plays full 29fps
conclusions anyone???
it looks like it is some seting in vegas
(I changed threads to 1)
O, Eugenia...thank you for such plain english...but I am not doing any editing, just try to play it in the timeline and I am not worrying about my 8800 Gts wth 640MB it plays everything flawlessly even on two monitors
I was trying to use raw files from Sony PMW EX1 and it was so huge that Vegas couldn't handle it (in preview best/auto it played them 3-4 fps...) I know that for editing I don't need best preview all the time but it is
inconvenient to switch it back and forth when I need to see some details. I agree with Stuart for the money it is good software although not professional.

Sigh...

>640x420 size and plays it blury at 26fps (very bad quality)

Right click on the preview window and de-select the "Scale video..." option. Make sure that "Simulate device..." option is selected. You should be using resolutions that divide exactly with 1920x1080, and that should be 640x360, not 640x420. You achieve this by doing what I say above.

And if you still get blurriness, it's because you didn't use the right "Project Properties" template. Please use 1080/60i or 1080/50i depending if you are on NTSC or PAL country.

I wrote all that above, but you obviously ignored me. If you are going to reply here, at least do us the courtesy of trying the things we are suggesting. We are only try to help here.

Eugenia, take it easy...
you don't understand; I dragged the timeline window un and down to scale the preview window so I could achieve 29fps preview; that happened when it was on 800x450; if you have any hdv file on hand please do it on your computer exactly as I described above and let me know what happens.

> I am not worrying about my 8800 Gts wth 640MB it plays everything flawlessly even on two monitors

It doesn't matter how fast your gfx card is. If the video is very heavy to decode, there will be a performance hit, no matter if you have the greatest gfx card on earth.

>I agree with Stuart for the money it is good software although not professional.

Vegas Pro is professional. Is FCP or Premiere any faster? And before you answer:
1. Are you sure that FCP/Premiere don't use the "preview quality" by default on their preview windows?
2. FCP by default *transcodes* all footage to ProRes or AIC before editing or playback, so you never use the original .m2t files. This means that FCP can playback faster than an editor like Vegas which uses the native files for editing. But this also means that you will have to wait for the transcoding and having huger files on your hard drive.

Vegas is pretty much as fast as it can be for using native files to edit instead of transcoding, so each to its own.

>if you have any hdv file on hand please do it on your computer exactly as I described above and let me know what happens.

I said above what happens. M2t plays full speed on my old P4 3Ghz when in preview quality in 1/4 of the size. It is very slow on Best quality. This is all to be expected.

>It doesn't matter how fast your gfx card is. If the video is very heavy to decode, there will be a performance hit, no matter if you have the greatest gfx card on earth.

not exactly (and that's why I bought 8800), some plugins - like Magic Bullets - use ONLY GPU processor to render it. Vegas alone would render the file at 3-4 fps while using GPU it renders in real time. (I am using it frequently). I do video for a living and I have to have fastest possible system, I need to see the video in the best possible quality all the time (even in editing) that's why I am so picky.
Thanks for your help. I see you are using HV20. Have you ever render 24p from it on Vegas?

BTW, I will have to ask for a last time: have you used the right "project properties" template? If you don't use the right one, or if you don't click the "match media settings" (third icon on the right of the project properties window) to select one of these EX1 files to make the project properties window fill up with the right video information that mirror your footage, you will get LESS speed out of Vegas. Vegas runs faster when you have the right project properties. So have you done that?

Eugenia,
this is the first thing I do (and everybody should) when I open the project. I set up properties/tem files etc...
I do 10 hrs of editind daily!
I am not sure if you are aware that those EX1 files are full HD (not some funny HDV files) recorded in 35MBs!!!!

>like Magic Bullets - use ONLY GPU processor to render it.
>Vegas alone would render the file at 3-4 fps while using GPU it renders in real time

Not on my PC. I have an nvidia 8600GTS 256 MBs, which is a pretty fast card too, and even with GPU usage, Magic Bullet is never real time here. I never had Magic Bullet running faster than 12 fps in HDV footage with GPU assistance.

>Have you ever render 24p from it on Vegas?

Yes. This 24p video of mine was exported via Vegas Pro in MP4 h.264/AAC 720p: http://vimeo.com/466491
Tutorial on how I did it, here: http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/11/09/exporting-with-vegas-for-vimeo-hd/

Thanks for your help. I have to go it is after 3am in Chicago

If not happy with Vegas, which is under 500 bucks, Buy a avid suite or something with external hardware as decoder for about maybe £2000 or 3000 dollars...

Check that the Video scopes are not set to playback when the video is play. It's one of the icons on the video scopes.

2- You can make sure the project properties match by going
file
project settings (or properties, can't remember the exact name)
close to the area where you select the templates, there is a floppy disc icon. Click that and it will bring up a window where you can match the project settings to a particular file.

>like Magic Bullets - use ONLY GPU processor to render it.
>Vegas alone would render the file at 3-4 fps while using GPU it renders in real time

Not on my PC. I have an nvidia 8600GTS 256 MBs, which is a pretty fast card too, and even with GPU usage, Magic Bullet is never real time here. I never had Magic Bullet running faster than 12 fps in HDV footage with GPU assistance.



Hi Eugenia. That's strange. My card is a 7600 GT and I can play clips with MB applied in realtime as long as I don't add any other filters.

Richard

DO NOT TURN YOUR THREADS DOWN, this setting is there to allow for proper distribution of work to multiple cores when the plugs etc... are able to do it. Leave your threads at 4!!!

That being said, usually playback doesn't use more than about 28-30% of the proc because i'm pretty sure that playback may not have been optimized to mulit-core properly (though i could be wrong).

to the moron who said Vegas is not a pro software, tell that to nightline news (they use it) and I don't think you get much more "pro" than that, and they're just one of many.

In all this you haven't said what your HDD's are doing? are you using dedicated drives for your source footage separate from the System drive and destination drive.

I also don't know if you said if you're playing back just one stream, or many, so I could use some details there.

If you are using best then Vegas has to do CPU intensive Tri-Linear filtering on every frame of video, this can be a real hit to the full framerate playback.

(I assume you are not foolish enough to leave a Virus scanner running or windows defender scanning while you're working are you? )

I know plenty of people that get full frame rate playback on HDV on machines quite literaly half as powerful as yours. I have no problems on my quad with 8800GT. Course I use preview quality and run one of my 24" LCD's as a monitor so there's no scaling (I disable the preview window when I'm playing back using my secondary 24" monitor as preview monitor so that it's not playing in 2 places).

Beyond that, I'd say you're doing something to it, because that machine has some juice and there's no reason it shouldn't be screamin. I'm running a modest 2.8Ghz Quad core and it's not having any problem keeping up, even with EX-1 Footage.

Just make sure your transparency is at 100 everywhere, and make sure you have no filters, run it at preview or Good quality and don't scale your output, just make your secondary monitor with all your non timeline windows on it jump to a preview display and don't show in preview window when you're doing that, make sure you're playing your files from a separate HDD than the System OS drive, and make sure that your Video Ram preview settings are at Default. If you're applying effects, you may drop frames here an there (even with MB on 8800GT512 i see a frame drop now and then, but I stay pretty close to full). Also make sure if you're not making Vegas mess with framerates too, as that can be a source of problems.

one thing you should know is that when you're using Magic Bullet you CPU usage will be lower because it's doing GPU (obviously) so even final rendering will see lower than full CPU usage with MB GPU accelerated effects on it, and there is some overhead in having to push everything to the GPU and back. Also don't use 32bit because even the fastest machines are going to struggle with that due if for no other reason than the fact that you're dealing with 128 bits per pixel accross your whole image and I'm guessing there's going to start being a problem with how much data can go to and from the CPU and RAM and HDD in real time.

Dave

I use 'Good Auto' and get full frame rate even with two tracks for Infiniticam.

I always have the project settings set for the video I use. So with HDV I use the HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps) settings.

My preview settings are: Default Background, Simulate Device Aspect Ratio, Show Toolbar and Show Status Bar. All other settings are not checked.

This is by way of right clicking on the preview window.

The preview window has display sizes of Project = 1440x1080x32,2970i, Preview: 320x270x32,2970p and Display:480x270x32.

I can make it such that the Preview is 720x540 and the Display is 960x540 and still get full rate.

I use 8 bit for editing.

If I use 'Preview Auto' I will get a ton of black and red frames. So, on my system I must use 'Good Auto' or I don't edit native *.m2t files.

Seems to be system specific...

Hope this helps.

Danny Fye
www.vidmus.com/scolvs

I started a thread on this topic some months ago on why Vegas preview is slow (and discovered so had others way back).

* I am getting your preview rate of 13-14fps on my average Quad Core 2.4Ghz 2Gb RAM with 32 bit processing plus 2 heavy colour correction filters on the timeline. So you should be getting full frame rates on standard m2t files with no filters.

But as I understand it there are only small-marginal improvements in preview rates as you up the PC spec (unlike say rendering).

I have had countless discussions with a custom PC builder who will NOT let me spend money on a faster PC to improve Vegas preview rates (but will if it is to improve Vegas render rates).





I just get new CPU/mobo - super fast Quad Q9450 with 12 MB of cache memory on it and SSE4 instuction for video encoding; 4 GB of PAM and fast Nvidia 8800GTS (with 640MB RAM ); my mobo runs 1333 MHZ. Prety decent system BUT... when I edit HDV video in Vegas preview rate is just 13-14 fps!!!!!!!!! When I play that HDV video in WM player or VLC it plays full resolution 29 fps. What's wrong with Vegas!? Only time when I have 29fps preview is when I set it to Best/Quarter. It sucks.

Am I the only person still seeing weird behavior with "Dynamic Ram Preview Max" set to "zero" or "not zero"?

If I set it to say 128MB then I get multi-threaded rendering (up to 100% max), BUT MY TIMELINE PERFORMANCE ISN'T GREAT-- it plays full framerate sometimes, but stutters other times.

If I set dynamic ram max to 0MB, then rendering is limited to one CPU only (25% on my quad), BUT MY TIMELINE PLAYBACK IS ROCK SOLID, absolutely, verifyably better ... I've seem this behavior on all my PCs, back to vegas 7.

To the original poster --- try setting "dynamic ram preview max" to 0 and see if your timeline performance improves

To anyone else-- have you seen this? either now, or in the past? I find some similar accounts from previous posters, but the conversations always faded out without real conclusion.

Kris