So I have a photographer who is interested in a video promo to get seniors excited about booking a session. The style of the video is to be "MTV-ish" with pretty heavy editing. The footage to be used will be a combination of footage from a pair of actual senior shoots, and then some creative setup shots using/featuring actual prints.

I'm curious as to what the rest of you would charge for something like this. Here was my thought process:

2 half-day on-location shoots of senior sessions - 8 hours total x $50/hr = $400
MTV-style editing - 8 hours total x $50/hr = $400
planning and additional shooting - 2 hours total x $50/hr = $100

TOTAL COST - $900

I presented this number to the photographer, who was a bit shocked at the cost. I asked what they expected for this kind of video and they said "$300". I don't want to be overpriced, but $300 seems like chump-change for a video like this. Thoughts?

I think $50/hr is very reasonable price, you don't even charge him for equipment cost. I think the photographer need to realize that he is doing a commercial promo video for his business, it would be the same when the photographer charge a fashion label to do a commercial photo.

Unless you really need the money or the guy is a close friend, I wouldn't budge off the $50/hr fee. That's a minimal hourly fee for professional work. $300 is a joke.
Kindly explain to him that video isn't as easy as photography and takes much more time and effort to get a quality product. On second thought, don't say that. Upon further reflection, maybe I shouldn't have typed that and I definitely shouldn't hit the submit button...
...oops.

Hmmmm, I wonderwhat HE would charge for something like that?

I agree, I don't think what you're asking is over the top. Shoot, edit, deliver finsihed product... In my mind you might even be a few bucks low.

Don

Hmmmm, I wonderwhat HE would charge for something like that?

I agree, I don't think what you're asking is over the top. Shoot, edit, deliver finsihed product... In my mind you might even be a few bucks low.

Don

Exactly.

Ask him (or just make an anonymous call to him) to find out how much he charges for a senior photo shoot & photo package. I'll bet it is over $300.

tell him you'll charge him a per-picture cost of only $5....@ 30 images/second, it will run up pretty quickly. Haha.

I'm with Don. I think you quoted low. Especially if you have to shoot two half days, thus killing the rest of each day. And I bet it takes you longer than 8 hours to edit...what about client approvals, DVD encoding and authoring, delivery? Or encoding and uploading for the web?

That guy's crazy to think you would do it for 300. Would he work three days for that?

2 half-day on-location shoots of senior sessions - 8 hours total x $50/hr = $400
MTV-style editing - 8 hours total x $50/hr = $400
planning and additional shooting - 2 hours total x $50/hr = $100
TOTAL COST - $900
I presented this number to the photographer, who was a bit shocked at the cost. I asked what they expected for this kind of video and they said "$300". I don't want to be overpriced, but $300 seems like chump-change for a video like this. Thoughts?

Especially if the photographer wants any music, audio work on the thing. I would have probably quoted about the same though the ambiguity on the edit part leaves room for price growth (re-cut to change X,Y,Z.... etc how involved would the client be in post, etc).

I know photographers don't even think about audio. Your photographer - not this client - has more exposure than most given the working relationship you two have, to audio concerns. I work with a photographer who also doesn't consider audio because... well... he doesn't have to. He knows about it because he hears me complain when we do a post-op on the shoot a week later or so.

I wonder what a photographer would charge for a 1/2 day shoot at multiple locations, with ~500 photographs to touch-up, color correct, and arrange. It really is a different world from still photography. A world that is largely unknown.

Another thought.... photography has essentially two "dimensions" and I'll use the term loosely. 1) Color space & lighting 2) framing & composition

Movies & Video productions have two additional dimensions.... 3) Audio 4) Motion (though some photographers do great work with incorporating motion in shots for blurring, etc) and motion could be very similar to framing & composition.

Both have post production work, and significant ones too, but post gets complicated by and order of magnitude with each added dimension. Which is why it is hard to do movies / video well. It is easy to screw up one dimension of complexity and ruin the entire production. Bad audio makes a production worthless. Static boring shots? Same thing.

You could check out what KTVB would charge, they run $120-200 /hr for location shoot and editing is entirely separate I think.... I checked a year ago or so so things could change. Or look at Peppershock, though Peppershock is waaaaay out of this photographer's league... cranes, helis, etc)

He is getting a bargain if he knows it or not.

Also consider the market. There are about 5 of us in the valley that could potentially serve this client. Everyone else is "up-and-coming" one man shops with a camera (and I might fall more towards this category) or the big players. There isn't much in between.

I have little available bandwidth for more gigs in the next 4 months so I'm sure others might be in a similar situation.

The client is left with the upstarts (which will charge $300 and deliver about what you would expect) or the production companies that will easily double or triple your bid.

Then jumping back to project specific details, I easily agree with your post-production estimates. So this is basically two days of work (the other 1/2 of your shoot day will be shot prepping & packing up gear and then logging the tapes from the cams after the shoot). For about two days of work.... $300 is completely unacceptable for sustainable professional productions.

Don't get me wrong, I might do it for $300 for my photographer, but he has helped me out a lot on past gigs so I'd cut him an amazing deal. He knows what work is involved so he probably would not want to go that low just because he is a great guy. Giving good friends and business associates too good of a deal might lead to annoyances and potential hard feelings.

ok.... I'll quit replying / hogging the thread. I've given my .... $0.20 :-) inflation

Thank you everyone for all the comments (and thank you Jason for the $.20 worth!). I do think I quoted low for this project, which is why I posted here. I wanted to get other opinions. I was kind of miffed when I felt I underquoted the job and then the photographer expected to pay 1/3 of that. I thought, "I'm either losing my mind or this photographer just doesn't have a clue." Guess now I know. Thanks again everyone.

Maybe he'll hire someone else for $300, get a crappy product and a lightbulb will go on.

You're better off without this gig, that's for sure.

Yeah, there is no way I'm taking the job for $300. $900 was my minimum. I think I may still get the job sometime down the road when the photog has saved up the money.

Way too cheap. And if you do it for that price, then they will expect you to do future projects at such a ridiculously low price. I'd be charging the $300 for half a day..even though my professional rates are higher than that. But yeah, there is a lot of work in that project and your pricing should reflect that.
Trust me, i've been caught out way too many times myself. IF they can't afford it, then don't do it. You will only find youself going backwards.

regards
Steve.

At this point I'll mention that I cut the photographer a good discount because I know them very well. I didn't want to mention that earlier because I wanted straight up opinions on the hours and billing, without the distraction that this is a preferred vendor. Thanks again everyone for the replies.

Well you are Dreambigproductions. Counter with $350.

Well you are Dreambigproductions. Counter with $350.

lol, a bit high, I was thinking I'd counter with $301, and then split the difference if the photog counter-offered.

I think I may still get the job sometime down the road when the photog has saved up the money.Probably not. Any business that can't manage to scrape together $1k "now" to get this done with the senior picture window closing is very small potatoes to begin with.

You basically "tripled" his own estimate and these types will never value video that much. It's like you're dealing with a low-end bride.

Really hate hearing/reading about things like this. I have had to deal with it for a while myself in other creative areas.

Everything with video takes about 10 times as long and 10 times the cost.

You would imagine that a creative person would realise himself that quality is not easy to come by and for the amount of people that MUST have said to him "thats a fancy camera you've got there, no wonder your good" he should work that backwards to other media types too and not just think "oh thats a fancy video camera, all you do it point it at things and a DVD comes out the other end"

Is this photographer a small timer? Does he charge industry rates for his work? If he undercharges for his work, it'd be pretty difficult to convince him to accept your fees.

Competent wedding photographers charges at least $300/hr to shoot a 12 hour wedding, of course, you have to also factor in their post production hours on the album.. so use that as a reference point.

$900 is a fair price for what you are asking. $300 is BS.. $300 is what wedding photogs pay their assistance for 1 days of work.

"oh thats a fancy video camera, all you do it point it at things and a DVD comes out the other end"

What a great quote. You have hit the nail on the head with that one...

Speaking as a photographer I agree 900.00 is reasonable, cheap even, especially if he is going to be using it as a cornerstone to his advertising an entire sector of his business. I would tell him that 900.00 is the discounted rate because he is a preferred vendor.

Bill

The photog is definitely not a small timer; one of the best in the area actually, but I think the photog just didn't realize how much work is involved in this kind of stuff. I explained that I was giving a significant discount, so we'll see what happens.

I gotta say I like the comment about the camera producing the DVD, lol. Unfortunately it's also somewhat true. Most people have no idea how time consuming a video production project really is.

The photog is definitely not a small timer; one of the best in the area actually, but I think the photog just didn't realize how much work is involved in this kind of stuff. I explained that I was giving a significant discount, so we'll see what happens.

Just to be fair, us videographers don't give enough credit to photographers either. We just think it's compose n' snap, but when you're dealing with human subjects, it takes a lot of skills when it comes to posing and subject interaction. Although, if you have those skills naturally, then it definitely becomes an easy thing for you to do. That is something I've learned when I stepped into the photo world.

Just to be fair, us videographers don't give enough credit to photographers either. We just think it's compose n' snap, but when you're dealing with human subjects, it takes a lot of skills when it comes to posing and subject interaction. Although, if you have those skills naturally, then it definitely becomes an easy thing for you to do. That is something I've learned when I stepped into the photo world.

I would agree with you. The trouble for photographers is that we have all taken pictures, so there is this tendency to think that there isn't much to it. But a true professional photographer has an extensive skill set that the average shutter-bug doesn't.

The trouble for videographers is that most people HAVE NOT shot and edited their own video, so they have no clue what kind of time is involved ... not to mention the skill sets required.

I, too, was going to say that $900 is a pretty low estimate.

Maybe you should have quoted him $3,000 and then he would have wanted it for $1,000. You'd then have an extra $100 to have a nice dinner to reward yourself ;)

All kidding aside, what I am finding more and more is that no matter what price you give them, they'll be shocked at how high it is, especially since video is sort of a luxury item. It's not as much of a "must have" as photography is. If your prices are fair and of good quality, your clients will see the value of the service you're providing for them and will go ahead with you. If not, either your quality of work isn't up to par (they don't see the value) or they weren't really that serious about it in the first place and were just fishing for a deal ($300 is a REALLY GOOD DEAL! ;)

Be fair but FIRM. We're not looking to make a killing, we just want fair compensation for our skill and time.

The worst is when you find yourself agreeing to do a job for a price that you know is ridiculous. Taken on board with the notion of it leading to more similar type jobs in the future. Thinking it will make a great sample.
The more work I find myself putting into these jobs the more frustrated I become.
Meanwhile the client is laughing at the extra bucks he has in his pocket.
I've decided no more of that crap for me.
Either they agree to my quotation, no haggling, or they go elsewhere (put nicely).

The worst is when you find yourself agreeing to do a job for a price that you know is ridiculous. Taken on board with the notion of it leading to more similar type jobs in the future. Thinking it will make a great sample.
The more work I find myself putting into these jobs the more frustrated I become.
Meanwhile the client is laughing at the extra bucks he has in his pocket.
I've decided no more of that crap for me.
Either they agree to my quotation, no haggling, or they go elsewhere (put nicely).
If I were doing this for a discounted rate in hopes of more business, I would include that in the contract, for instance, have the videographers name show up in the video ad