My HF100 arrived yesterday from B&H (you wouldn't believe the price!).

One thing I'd like to mention is that it's not as silver looking as the pics on Canon's website. It's more of a smokey grey -- looks classy.

I haven't had a chance to do any outdoor shooting yet since I woke up to 5 inches of snow on the ground, and it's still coming down.

totally diverging here: Does anyone know the full story of B&H and their 'holidays'?

to close up for 2-3 weeks in APril???waz up with that?!

totally diverging here: Does anyone know the full story of B&H and their 'holidays'?

to close up for 2-3 weeks in APril???waz up with that?!

They are Jewish orthodox, so they close for all of the major holidays on the Hebrew calendar. Their recent closing was for Passover, which traditionally lasts 8 days. Most years, Passover occurs closer to Easter, so it seemed out of place this year. They also don't accept orders on Saturday (Sabbath) since you're not supposed to earn money during that time.

They are Jewish orthodox, so they close for all of the major holidays on the Hebrew calendar. Their recent closing was for Passover, which traditionally lasts 8 days. Most years, Passover occurs closer to Easter, so it seemed out of place this year. They also don't accept orders on Saturday (Sabbath) since you're not supposed to earn money during that time.

Thanks for the explanation! that fills in the blanks.

Done lots of business there with my Canon lenses shopping and HG10 accessories...

Thanks for the explanation! that fills in the blanks.

Done lots of business there with my Canon lenses shopping and HG10 accessories...

Yeah - a little off topic, but I've been buying stuff from them for close to 20 years and although they've never had the absolute lowest prices, they've always had great customer service. I've only received a few defective items over the years, but I've never had any problems exchanging them, even when the defect was sort of nebulous like "the image sharpness isn't quite as good as it should be in the lower left corner of the image". I'll pay a few extra $ for the better customer service.

Here's how the HF10 looks like with a Cokin Series A filter holder and an AT Pro24 stereo microphone.

Can any 37mm lens hood, fit the HF-10? I found some on the internet (both squared and round shaped).

I don't see any other hood brand that is available for this camera, except for Stefan's Cokin Series A filter holder + hood.

Can anyone share, with pictures?

Spent some time shooting some family events this weekend. While at it, I shot some colorful objects. I used some of the white balance presets (not AWB) and manual WB. With the exception of some mixed-lighting situations, color was spot on -- including red.

I was testing the HF10 under "real world" conditions yesterday and tried to shoot some footage of drummers in a park. Below is a link to the clip. I am toying with the idea of making a documentary about the roots of jazz and thought that this could be a good start.

Everything was shot with a 24p frame rate and in 'cinema' mode and automatic controls. Audio is from the camera-mounted AT Pro24 stereo mic, which I think does a pretty good job. Anyway, just have a look and let me know what you think. Please keep in mind that VIMEO substantially degraded the quality of the footage, so the actual shots look WAY better. Unfortunately, the 3-min clip occupies more than 1 GB of disk space in full resolution, so clearly, I cannot upload the high resolution version.

http://www.vimeo.com/980003

Does the camera have f-stops on the LCD? Does the camera have zebra pattern?

Does the camera have f-stops on the LCD? Does the camera have zebra pattern?

The camera can display the f-number, and that can be manually controlled. I don't remember if it's shown all the time or not.

I can't find any information on zebra striping.

No zebras. When shooting in Tv (shutter priority) mode, you can view which f/stop the camera chooses by pressing the photo button halfway. You can lock that exposure (and adjust it up or down a couple of stops) by pressing the Exposure Lock option with the joystick.

No zebras. When shooting in Tv (shutter priority) mode, you can view which f/stop the camera chooses by pressing the photo button halfway. You can lock that exposure (and adjust it up or down a couple of stops) by pressing the Exposure Lock option with the joystick.

Another observation: In addition to not having zebra stripes, the LCD display is very high contrast (at least to me) and there's no adjustment for it other than the brightness of the backlight - highlights look clipped on the LCD even when they're not really clipped in the video. I think they do that so that the LCD is more visible in bright lighting (outdoors), but it means that without zebra stripes, the usefulness of manual exposure might be somewhat limited unless you happen to be using an external monitor while shooting (assuming the camera outputs video during record mode, which I don't know if it does).

I made some changes to my setup:

I added an Azden SGM-X shotgun mic. I picked that mic because it is one of the smallest shot gun mics and has the right connector (mini plug, no XLR). Also, the shock mount fits into the mini-shoe by filing off a tiny amount (about 1mm on each side) of the plastic holder. Since the shock mount has a rubber suspension, handling noise from touching/operating the camcorder is not an issue anymore as the rubber suspension absorbs these vibrations very effectively. I still use the AT Pro24 stereo mic when I need a stereo signal. Both mics give excellent audio.

I also added a Hoodman HD-300 16x9 LCD hood which is fantastic! Shooting in bright day light is finally not a problem anymore. I highly recommend the Hoodman.

A kept the Cokin Series A filter holder (poor man's matte box) and added a few filters. I think the size of the Cokin Series A is perfect for the cam, so I'll def keep it. I might add a second modular hood.

Overall, I am very happy with the setup.

No zebras. When shooting in Tv (shutter priority) mode, you can view which f/stop the camera chooses by pressing the photo button halfway. You can lock that exposure (and adjust it up or down a couple of stops) by pressing the Exposure Lock option with the joystick.

Chris,

When I push the photo button halfway in Tv mode all I get is a flashing red icon indicating that it's not in photo recording mode. I don't see any indication of the f/stop setting. Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,
Paul

I had to enable the still photo capability while in movie mode. Thanks for the great tip!!

I made some changes to my setup:

I added an Azden SGM-X shotgun mic. I picked that mic because it is one of the smallest shot gun mics and has the right connector (mini plug, no XLR). Also, the shock mount fits into the mini-shoe by filing off a tiny amount (about 1mm on each side) of the plastic holder. Since the shock mount has a rubber suspension, handling noise from touching/operating the camcorder is not an issue anymore as the rubber suspension absorbs these vibrations very effectively. I still use the AT Pro24 stereo mic when I need a stereo signal. Both mics give excellent audio.

Wouldn't the gun mic be blocking your zoom controls? How do you get around using the zoom then, via the remote?

Wouldn't the gun mic be blocking your zoom controls? How do you get around using the zoom then, via the remote?
I can still access the zoom controls, no problems, but I am thinking about mounting the remote on the fluid head's pan bar.

I can still access the zoom controls, no problems, but I am thinking about mounting the remote on the fluid head's pan bar.

That'll be a perfect choice. However, the infrared LED on the remote, has to be aligned with the LCD (sensor) for it to work properly. I remember someone has "hacked" an infra-red to work on a small tubing (or is it?) and work flawlessly, no matter where the infrared LED is facing. But that was another camera!

I'm still rigging up my RODE VideoMic onto my HF-10. Oh by the way, mine's the 25p version.

The problem with the remote is that the zoom has only one (fixed) speed, so I prefer the control on the camcorder.

"Hacking" the remote so it works no matter if there is a line of sight to the lcd screen where the sensor is located is a great idea! Do you know where I can find that thread? I think it would be simple to attach a fiber optics cable to the remote and connect it to the sensor.

Look in the HV20 threads, there should be some pictures and ideas for a remote hack in there! Basically a short digital optical cable, one end on remote, other on camera... bingo!

So I'm ready to shoot my documentary :-)

Would you recommend that I shoot in 1920x1080 or in 1440x1080 if the documentary is intended for film festivals? My editing suite is Final Cut Express 4, which I believe doesn't support full 1920, or am I missing something? It seems that the 1920 mode of the HF10 is interpolating between pixel (so it's not native 1920), so the native resolution isn't any better than 1440. So my question, I guess, is:

Is 1440x1080 a high enough resolution for film festivals?

Thanks!

I've had my HF100 for about a week and am generally very happy with it. But my camera has a very noticeable screen lag - probably .1-.2 seconds. At 1st, I thought it was the image stabilizer. But it persisted with the IS turned off. For handheld shooting it wasn't much of a problem, but when shooting telephoto on a tripod, it was impossible to make tiny movements b/c I wouldn't get any feedback until after I started the move. Is this just my camera or is this some sort of processing latency effecting the LCD?

So I'm ready to shoot my documentary :-)

Would you recommend that I shoot in 1920x1080 or in 1440x1080 if the documentary is intended for film festivals? My editing suite is Final Cut Express 4, which I believe doesn't support full 1920, or am I missing something? It seems that the 1920 mode of the HF10 is interpolating between pixel (so it's not native 1920), so the native resolution isn't any better than 1440. So my question, I guess, is:

FCE 4 has not given me any problems at 1920x1080 / FXP mode at any frame rate. It seems to be truly native 1920, but if you look too closely, then you're probably going to see some of the encoding losses.

Is 1440x1080 a high enough resolution for film festivals?

I don't know. But if they accept HDV sourced videos, then they already do accept it.

I've had my HF100 for about a week and am generally very happy with it. But my camera has a very noticeable screen lag - probably .1-.2 seconds. At 1st, I thought it was the image stabilizer. But it persisted with the IS turned off. For handheld shooting it wasn't much of a problem, but when shooting telephoto on a tripod, it was impossible to make tiny movements b/c I wouldn't get any feedback until after I started the move. Is this just my camera or is this some sort of processing latency effecting the LCD?

My HF10 has the same annoying time lag. I first thought it is the image stabilization, but as you pointed out, it's now.

Can any 37mm lens hood, fit the HF-10? I found some on the internet (both squared and round shaped).

I don't see any other hood brand that is available for this camera, except for Stefan's Cokin Series A filter holder + hood.

Can anyone share, with pictures?

Here's what I use. 37-52mm stepup ring, 52mm UV filter, and Hama hood for 52mm (clamps over 52mm filter ring. Ordered from B&H photo). If I can successfully attach a photo, that is what is shown.

It does block the Instant Autofocus sensor but regular autofocus works, just be aware it may take a second or so.

I find this to be a very effective hood for the lens built into the camera. Any wide angle or telephoto aux lenses will likely require their own hoods. And with this cam I consider a hood absolutely necessary.

Bruce -- that's a sexy looking camcorder you have there! ;-)

What lcd hood is that? I have the Hoodman 16:9, but this one seems to be different.

Cinetactics screen hoodie 30. From www.cinetactics.com

More solid than the hoodman product and I can push it far enough towards the cam body to use the joystick, and when necessary I can shove part of it up just enough so I can press the function button to get menus.

shoots 29.97 in 24P mode?!!?

Terrible. This is my biggest gripe with this camera.

Huh? Name one single consumer AVCHD camcorder that doesn't do it that way.

does the software included with the canon HF10/100 allow you to transcode or export the video files to usable formats for the PC ..... FCP works like a charm I've found but on the PC side I'm having trouble .... I'm using a loaner that did not come with software so I have no way of checking my self and cannot find a definitive answer on the web ...


thank you in advance

Huh? Name one single consumer AVCHD camcorder that doesn't do it that way.

Chris, if you're referring to 24P in 60i, the Panasonic SD consumer cams (SD9 for sure, and probably SD5 as well) don't do it that way. The 24P files are true 24P and don't require inverse pulldown.

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. Apparently the pro-oriented HSC1U also. I've learned something today!

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. Apparently the pro-oriented HSC1U also. I've learned something today!

Actually, I was incorrect about the SD5 - I remembered the SD5 does not even have a 24P mode, that was added in the SD9.

It's a shame Canon doesn't do this as well. It's a good idea for the cameras to add pulldown for playback through the video port, but there's no reason for pulldown in the file - it just adds extra steps to the editing flow.

Another observation: In addition to not having zebra stripes, the LCD display is very high contrast (at least to me) and there's no adjustment for it other than the brightness of the backlight - highlights look clipped on the LCD even when they're not really clipped in the video. I think they do that so that the LCD is more visible in bright lighting (outdoors), ...

Questions:

Since there is no VF -- can you really see the image and menus when you are in bright sunlight?

There are, on another thread, reports that the Canon color in AWB or in any of the Fixed Settings WB not only is not accurate -- it is very erratic. Some claim the sky can go magenta. Do you see this? Especially do find you can trust the many Fixed settings.

One of the disadvantages of zebra is it covers highlites (100IRE) and so you can't see the actual amount of detail remaining in the highlight. So not having a zebra isn't a killer for me. Early clipping in the LCD sounds like it doesn't let you see remaining detail either. So, in a way it works like zebra.

Thus, if you adjust exposure using the white clipping as though it were zebra and adjust so only tiny areas clip -- when you view the video do you get better highlights? It sounds as though you do. Which is nice.

Have you checked if the Canon's max IRE is 100 or 105 to 110?

What about deep shadow areas? Do they look in the LCD darker than they actually are?

Questions:

Since there is no VF -- can you really see the image and menus when you are in bright sunlight?
Yes, you can. I'd much prefer a viewfinder for bright outdoor situations, but although a bit washed out, I was able to see the viewfinder well enough in direct sunlight to get the job done.

I haven't shot enough with the camera to generalize about color rendition, but it handled a space shuttle launch very nicely in default auto. No special settings. I'll eventually post that video when I get some free time, (maybe!) later next week, along with a time lapse of the rollback of the launch pad's Rotating Service Structure the night before launch, although that one did suffer a bit from classic autofocus hunting.

BTW, this is one of those situations where it was not possible for me to bring the "big iron" and my choice was between no shot at all and an inexpensive, limited-adjustment, highly compressed pocket cam. HDNet won't be beating a path to my door for that footage, but it is mine and I'll always have it. Glad that little camera fit in my flight suit pocket!

this is one of those situations where it was not possible for me to bring the "big iron" ...Can't squeeze very much gear into a T-38 Talon, eh?

Pete: I hope you can post that footage somewhere and soon. I would love to see it.

Steve: About no VF...This is my biggest complaint about this camera (and yet I have a second HF100 coming in today so I don't get stuck shooting B roll with a SD MiniDV again). Although kicking up the brightness of the screen (a button under the fold out LCD alternates between normal and bright) lets me kinda see the image in bright sunlight and daylight, I need to use a "hood" to properly evaluate exposure and focus when setting up a scene.

I use either the Cinetactics Screen Hoodie in the picture in a previous post, or the Hoodman 300 with magnifier and with either I use the normal setting on the LCD and shield the hood as best I can, getting face as close as presbyopia (difficulty focusing close up) and trifocals will let me.

It is workable that way, in fairness the VF on the HV20 being so tiny and non tiltable was not signifcantly better for me and I wound up using the LCD and a hood on that one.

Can't squeeze very much gear into a T-38 Talon, eh?Nope. The great cameras that the XLs are, they just don't fit in your pocket, either.

Pete: I hope you can post that footage somewhere and soon. I would love to see it.

I use either the Cinetactics Screen Hoodie in the picture in a previous post, or the Hoodman 300 with magnifier and with either I use the normal setting on the LCD and shield the hood as best I can, getting face as close as presbyopia (difficulty focusing close up) and trifocals will let me.

It is workable that way, in fairness the VF on the HV20 being so tiny and non tiltable was not signifcantly better for me and I wound up using the LCD and a hood on that one.

Amazing how "home" camcorders that used to have 2/3-inch CRTs are now have VFs so tiny they are nearly unuseable -- so maybe their loss is not a real loss. The Sony SR has a tiltable VF -- but the menu system doesn't show in the VF!!!!

Moreover, without a proper eyecup, those of us with glasses have a hard time blocking light from entering.

The hoods may work, but you've got to remove the hood to close the LCD.

PS: To work with my varifocals I really need at least a 3-inch LCD. Don't the Japanese understand the word BOOMERS?

Steve, at least with the SR you do have a choice between a VF and an LCD. Couple that with the fact that the LCD on the Sony is the largest and highest resolution availalbe, and you have the best of what is currently availalbe in the consumer world.

What about deep shadow areas? Do they look in the LCD darker than they actually are?

I don't own one, but my impression from using one was that the contrast seemed to be stretched on both ends, so dark shadows (no relation to the 1960's soap opera) might tend to look completely black. To be fair, lots of other consumer camcorders pump up the contrast in the LCD, including my current Panasonic SD DV camera, which has a much more natural image in the viewfinder than on the LCD.

I suppose the method you suggest for judging exposure would work, especially after you have a feel for how much the display tends to clip, but it may be harder to use in bright sunlight than zebra stripes.

I suppose the method you suggest for judging exposure would work, especially after you have a feel for how much the display tends to clip, but it may be harder to use in bright sunlight than zebra stripes.

I find the SR zebra at 100 covers an area so one can't see what's really happening in the highlight area. Turning it off let me adjust exposure so I could still see some detail in the highlight. Don't really need zebra to signal me. If I'm in a hurry -- AE works fine.

Don't really need zebra to signal me. If I'm in a hurry -- AE works fine.

And Steve, it's precisely that 'in a hurry' point that made me favor a cam like this for its more accurate 'in a hurry' adjustments. I rarely use other camera equipment in a hurry, but this fun cam I do. But when I have time, I still like the zebras...still the most accurate way to avoid overexposure. You just can't rely on LCDs or VFs for this. :)

And Steve, it's precisely that 'in a hurry' point that made me favor a cam like this for its more accurate 'in a hurry' adjustments. I rarely use other camera equipment in a hurry, but this fun cam I do. But when I have time, I still like the zebras...still the most accurate way to avoid overexposure. You just can't rely on LCDs or VFs for this. :)

But don't you think if we follow Zebra 100% we get very dark picture? At 70% in HD7 picture look ok, but still I set all controls my self, some time I noticed auto presets gives fantastic result, my this comment regarding to HD7.

Kaushik

I allow zebra just appearing on white object but not on anything else especially a colour like yellow. IF you have zebra on in auto you will see that the SR11/12 will allow zebras on white but I have never seen on any other colour so I follow the same approach and it has worked well. This is also true for my FX1 it must be the way that Sony have set these up to get the most out of the camera. IF zebras don't appear on white then the scene is often too dark. This is what one would expect with white just clipping at 100ire.

Ron Evans

I allow zebra just appearing on white object but not on anything else especially a colour like yellow. Ron Evans

With SD and small screens a bit of burned-out highlights was fine. Anyone shooting for film or HD knows when blown-up one really doesn't want to see burn-out -- even on whites. An expensive camera with gamma and knee settings enables one to prevent burn-out even in AE. The Canon, of course, has just such a Cine gamma option that prevents burn-out. All the test pix show whites having detail. So once Cine is turned-on, I don't need a zebra.

With Cine off, for manual shooting, one simply looks at the LCD. With any camera one quickly learns to balance the pix. For example, if you know the screen clips, you allow whites to go white -- but not light yellow or pale blue. (With color -- we can differentiate colors. LCDs aren't CRTs.) If the LCD doesn't clip, then you don't allow even white to lose detail.

Bottom-line, if a guy has a white shirt -- I want to see the creases, not a big white area, on playback.

If shadows go too dark -- you know scene latitude is wider than the camera can capture. Increasing exposing to prevent this at the cost of burned highlights is not the answer. If your camera doesn't offer Black Stretch, either decrease scene contrast or live with it.

But don't you think if we follow Zebra 100% we get very dark picture? At 70% in HD7 picture look ok, but still I set all controls my self, some time I noticed auto presets gives fantastic result, my this comment regarding to HD7.

Kaushik

It all depends on what your subject is. If your subject is precisely what's over-exposed, then you shouldn't care if the rest of the video is on the dark side. Look at any broadcast material and you'll find background and ancillary parts of the scene can be either very dark or overexposed depending on what the subject is supposed to be. Video hasn't reached the point where everything can be exposed perfectly.

But the bottom line is that zebras are a necessity if you're concerned about exposing white areas properly. No pro would go without them and that's why no professional camera is lacking them.

Steve I was making a particular comment about the Sony zebras. With the zebra just appearing on white for the Sony cams I have, the whites are correctly exposed, creases in the fabric and all. The point I was making was that Sony likely have the 100% zebra set a little lower for this very reason as witnessed by viewing the zebras in auto. In other words I think that 100% zebra on these cams is more like 95% in reality allowing the zebras to just show and yet correctly expose the scene. Having used this approach for years on these prosumer Sony's they all work the same way and would lead to an underexposed scene if one doesn't do this.

Ron Evans

Steve I was making a particular comment about the Sony zebras. With the zebra just appearing on white for the Sony cams I have, the whites are correctly exposed, creases in the fabric and all.
Ron Evans

The reason is that Sony pro cameras record up to 108IRE. So you are correct, but not because the zebra's at 95 but because it is 100 and there remains 8IRE headroom. So I agree with you completely. Although, if you as NLE that converts YUV to RGB -- that headroom is clipped away. That's why I don't like Premiere.

Bottom-line, anyone who looks can see clipping whether there is zebra on top of it or not. The zebra adds nothing nothing except to obscure seeing the what detail is left.

PS: Zebra is from the days of CRT VFs where the CRT offered so much headroom one needed to be TOLD where 100IRE was. If you go back to the Sony Porta-Pak days as I do -- you realize that what we worried about then is not what we worry about now. Just as when I worked for a recording studio in the very early `60's and cut LPs -- today in the digital world we don't use a microscope to see how the "cutting" is going. :)

After a nearly half a century experience, you learn when features are mere marketing gimmicks. And, of course, zebra is useless when in AE. But, having it can make some folks think they have a "pro" camera.

Steve I wasn't being specific about 95% just indicating that the Sony will record all the detail with the zebra just showing on white. The comment about zebra on auto was to indicate that Sony expect zebra to show on white as it should if one is to get full dynamic range out of the recording. Guessing what the exposure is based on how it looks on the LCD/VF leaves you at the mercy of how the LCD/VF is set up resulting in either underexposure or over exposure. Yes I used to manage when I had cams without zebra by watching if the faces bloomed etc. Using the zebra ensures that the whites at least will be exposed at the limit and if the zebra is on any other colour it will be over exposed if that is the intended subject. I am also aware that most of the digital recording processes will record super white. I use Edius to edit and the waveform monitor does show levels above 100IRE !!!
PS My experience also goes back to the early 60's with film and audio recording and I will take every aid to getting things right that is available to me. There are lots of marketing gimmicks, like digital zoom, but zebra is not one of them.


Ron Evans

Bottom-line, anyone who looks can see clipping whether there is zebra on top of it or not. The zebra adds nothing nothing except to obscure seeing the what detail is left ........ But, having it can make some folks think they have a "pro" camera.

I agree that zebras may be a legacy from CRT VFs, and that LCD displays are more useful at indicating where clipping occurs, but I think zebras may once again have usefulness in the new crop of consumer camcorders that have no VF, when used in bright sunlight.

I don't yet have a video camera with no VF, but they are similar in that respect to DSLR's, which also have no electronic viewfinder. My DSLR has an image review mode that highlights overexposure, similar to zebra sripes. When I'm indoors or in lower light, I never use this mode because the LCD is very faithful about indicating where clipping occurs and the blinking black areas are annoying and make it hard to view the remaining detail. When I'm outdoors in bright sun, however, I can't reliably view the LCD for highlight detail and clipping, even with a hood, so I do use that mode, and it has helped me correct numerous bad exposures.