Thank you. I also know the question marks dont get a faster reply. It shows the state of confusion im in with this subject.

oh by the way when u say u dont want to sound like something you normally do ;)


We are shooting in little towns in NJ which dont seem to have a clue about what we need. Most places are just requiring letters to the Police just so they know whats going on.

If you are taping in New Jersey you should check out the guidelines on the state film commission web site:

http://www.njfilm.org/

Which basically say that you should have a $1 million general liability policy to tape on state owned property and that small cities may not have any idea about this (which is obviously what you discovered on your own).

I found the best deal on a simple policy like that from my personal insurer (NJ Manufactirer's). So check with your insurance company.

By the way I received an abrupt refusal to do a simple handheld taping in Princeton Battlefield Park, which is the last thing I expected to get from a state park. But it was easier to find another state park that wasn't so overprotective than to complain. So you do get a wide variety of responses to even simple requests.

I am in the Trenton-Princeton area so if you are looking for locations around here e-mail me at ball@tcnj.edu and maybe I can help out.

Thanks Bill i found that site a little while ago. Thats strange that they wouldnt let u film there. I recall a few years ago when they were shooting IQ there in the park. I guess it had more to do with how much u could give them than anything.

Raaaha Rraaahaa! That's the sound of this thread being resurrected from the dead.

In another thread, someone mentioned a company called safeware (http://www.Safeware.com) that they used to insure their gear. I called them, and apparently how it works is, they specialize in insuring your COMPUTER, and the video gear counts as a peripheral (ha!). However, I am SOL as my computer was bought about 4 years ago, and they won't insure anything over 3 years old, and hence, they won't insure they video gear either.

I've checked with AAA, they won't do it. I've checked with the homeowner's policy (I am not the homeowner, I only reside with them--pathetic, huh?) they won't do it. I actually have quite a bit of gear, and what it's worth and what I paid for it could be disputed, since I bought a lot of it used, but I still have quite a bit.

Any other ideas on how to get some insurance for it, besides methods already discussed, and those mentioned in other threads? Is there a secret I don't know about?

Josh,

I checked with State Farm (didn't have any other policies with them). They issued a policy that covers all my gear (Camera/Field, Editing and Computers) for replacement value. I had to provide a list of what I had and the current retail replacement cost. The policy covers 100% minus $500 deductable. $80K worth cost about $800/yr.

OK, thanks. . .that sounds ok, since I my stuff is worth significantly less than that. . .

Is that rate you mentioned a. . .constant? That is. . .It costs $100 to insure per $10,000 woth of equipment?

Do I need to do anything special if I contact them? You said you didn't have any other policies with them. They don't care if it's for business or personal use (technically, mine would go under both, though I haven't made too much money from it)?

Well, thank you VERY much! I just got off the phone with State farm, and yes, they do do exactly what you said--it's called a personal articles policy, and it's pretty well priced, covered against everything, everywhere, and you don't need a previously existing policy.

So maybe put this in a separate thread, or article, or something, so next time someone asks if they can get equipment insurance, bingo! You point them here. Thanks.

Josh, a few questions.
Did they inquire as to whether it was for business or
personal use? Do they need a list of everything?
Does it cover theft from your car, say, if you were
traveling away from home?

Dave,

The agent I worked with said that it covers it no matter what! Lost, stolen, from home, car... Dropped over a cliff, you name it. Not usually a big fan of insurance but this policy really gives me piece of mind.

Yes, absolutely. The only thing that matters with the business/personal thing is the rate--I guess it's a little more for professional use. Yes, covered away from home, from all kinds of damage, disaster, theft, whatever. Can't believe I didn't know about this before! I can't stop using exclamation points!!!!!

Yes, they do need a list of all items you want insured, with their value. Here's where I got a little perplexed. I swear they said they wanted me to have it appraised? How? By whom? Maybe Rob can enlighten us. I've bought a lot of my gear off eBay, and I don't know if they want the eBay price, or the retail price for that item new. I still don't know how you'd get it appraised--it's not jewelery.

I provided an excel spreadsheet that listed each item I wanted covered and it's current retail replacement value. Bottom line is, if your house burns down and you loose everything, the total dollar value you have a policy for should cover the actual retail replacement cost for anything you would want to replace. I too have made some great deals on Ebay but in the event of a catastrophic loss, I wouldn't be able to duplicate those buys and would be ordering all new gear from retail sources so make sure you're covered.

And State Farm is okay with and understands that?

Yep, it's a "replacement value" policy.

Okay, here's one for you: what if what you bought can't be bought retail anymore?

Examples:

My sachtler DV4 tripod: now they only make the Sachtler DV4II--the upgraded model--not exaxtly the same thing

My monitor: A sony PVM 14M2U. Looked on B&H's site, and they don't seem to stock any new ones. I'm generally of the opinion that if B&H doesn't have it, no one does (especially with monitors). I know this is an older model, but that's not the point. I paid $400 for it used.

By the way, on my PC: This thing is technically four years old. Over that time, I've "updated" almost every component, save for the video and sound cards, keyboard, and monitor. I guess I have to research exactly how much each individual component costs? Fun!

Josh,

While I'm not an insurance expert, my understanding (based on what the agent explained to me) is that they will pay to replace your equipment with the same OR currently available comperable gear. My specific question to him was, I have a DSR 500. No longer produced and replaced by the 570. If mine were to be "lost", they would replace it (up to the value I reported) with a 570. Thats why I listed full retail value (MSRP) for all my gear. In most cases, the newer gear is priced the same (or sometimes slightly less) but has a better feature set. If you do suffer a loss, you may well end up with better gear in the end!

Yes yes. . .IF I suffer a loss. . .why, is that a burglar outside? Hey, please don't take this older model NTSC monitor. . .oh shux, whatever shall I do now? Mwhahahahaha.

Insurance agent: "What else was taken sir?"
Josh Bass: "Well, let's see. The Picasso, the Rembrandt..."
Insurance agent: "Sir, your insurance only covers real items, not made up ones."
Josh Bass: "Doh!"

Alright, children, Dr. Bass is back to warn you all that everything in the quiet town of Insuranceville may not be as peaceful and simple as it seems. Just the other day State Farm called me and asked me several questions about the nature of what I did with the gear I own. They have me down as doing "weddings" and "personal use". They wanted to know how many "weddings" I did in a month, and I said. . .about five. They said, "We'll put two," because any more than that, and it's considered commercial use, and then we can't insure you."

What the hell? I asked them about that the first time I ever called about this! They told me it didn't matter!

Then, they wanted to know, what did "personal use" mean? I told them short films, usually. They said, "What do you do with these short films?" I said, you know, whatever. . .maybe I'll win an Oscar, I don't know (Peter and I is DEFINITELY oscar-worth, I think). They were trying to find out if these shorts or whatever were just a hobby or if I had big plans for them.

Anyway, I swear I asked them if it mattered how and for what I used the gear the very first time I called, and I swear they told me it didn't, so that's why I'm resurrecting this thread. Sheesh! So be careful out there when looking for insurance on the cheap.

Take a look at this link:

http://www.productioninsurance.com/floater.htm

Hi All,

just wondered whether anyone is in here from Germany, or elsewhere who knows a good and cheap place where I can get an insurance that will cover my DVX100A camera against robbery/theft across the EU?
_
I might move to Germany, so maybe a german company would be good.

Many Thanks,

Journalist unions often provide gear insurance too.

Thanks. So far, I still have a policy, so I won't worry about it at the moment.

Insurance companies: you can't get a straight
answer out of them. Even *they* don't know what
they're doing.
Thanks, though, Josh. "Two, two, two, yep only two"....... ; - )
Did they want an itemized list? One company
I called wanted this prior to insuring, including
serial numbers.

Raoul,

See another thread in this forum about insurance.
When I lived in Holland I used to insure my gear with a company called AON, who operate throughout Europe. But it was through a membership of the Dutch Journalist Federation though.
They had a great package where you could be covered for your gear and Third Party liablility (very important, because your private TPL insurance does NOT cover your professional activities, usually).
I'm here in Spain now, and haven't found anything like the Dutch situation, even though AON operates here as well, but they had no clue about what I was talking about when I called them up. My gear is uninsured now, and I take out TPL insurance for each job separately with a specialised insurer.

I don't know if they wanted an itemized list, but I gave 'em one! I emailed that production insurance company one of you guys linked to, just in case I end up having to cancel this policy. Thanks, to whoever provided the link. I should probably check before I post my reply, but oh well. clicking "submit reply" right now.

----One company
I called wanted this prior to insuring, including
serial numbers----

That seems to me to be the one that knows what they're doing!

Josh, yer either up late or early to be online.
(Don't know what time it is in Spain, Dan.)

Anyways, let us know how things go with
that one you've emailed. I have yet to get
proper insurance.

Agree, too, Slash rules. Currently #1 in sales with
Velvet Revolver, the combined STP/GNR.
Scott Weiland. Duff McKagen.
Read this today.

Dave, where are you??
We are 6 hours later than NYC, just to give an idea. It's just before 14:00 local here now.

In this global era, insurance should be global too. I tried to continue my union membership in Holland and the insurance, but that was not something that fit into the way of thinking and operating.

It's generally true that most people think provincial. The number of US sites that require me to fill in a valid US State code on a request form...

Dan, I'm mid USA. It's 08:00 here where I am. I'm working late.
Visiting here while I'm rendering. Need to get some new demos
out tomorrow (?today).

Maybe Josh either nodded off, or had to go to work..... : - )

Thank you!

Do you have alink to the other tread?

Thanks,

Raoul

Here goes Raoul:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17197

Cheers

Yeah, I keep weird hours.

Well, I got a quote back from the production insurance place. For what state farms wants $200 a year for, this place wants around $860! Damn!

The quotes Josh got are interesting.

The question is how the policies differ. The production insurance folks are "in the business" and so one might assume they have a good idea of the risks they are taking. I wonder about State Farm. One would hate to have a problem and then discover limitations of the coverage.

The difference in price makes one stop and think.

I know what you mean Josh.

I submitted a request for a quote from that company, and with the premium combined with the $1,000 deductible, it's almost more economical to go sans insurance for prosumer gear and if there is a loss just buying new.

-Tim

No shizzle.

One thing I should note is that that quote he gave me covers you internationally, as well. Not a big deal to me, but maybe to some of you.

To me it's obvious: go without insurance. Put the 800 bucks in a separate bank account every year. And be careful with your gear ;-)

Starting July 1, the state EDD has started enforcing a law that requires a busness who employs Independent Contractors to obtain disability insurance (SDI) for them. If you do not, the penalty can cause serious damage to your company.

So, if like me, you hire Directors and others on a per-job basis and they are truly Independent Contractors, you now have to obtain that very expensive insurance.

Or hire everyone through a temp agency and pay the approximately 150% of the salary you would have paid directly.

So, my prices go up once again. Or I go out of state for narrative work at the least and only have to worry about the Director, the Sound person and the Lighting contractor.

They track this by checking the 542 form (one has to report hiring an Independet Contractor within 20 days of paying them $600 or more per year or agreeing to do so) against the payments for disability insurance.

It is said that the fine can be as much as $10,000 per incident.

Had an opportunity to talk with the local State Senator about this surprise. He knew nothing about it even though he heads up the Finance Committee.

So write your state rep and tell him/her you want that off the books yesterday.

I claim no mastery over the various in's and outs of independent contracting, but I was under the impression that an independent contractor was supposed to cover him/herself and in return gets the freedom of naming their own wage and how many hours/jobs they intend to work.

I must say this is a serious set-back for independent contractors and employers alike -- like you said, time to take jobs out of new socialist California. If this stuff keeps up I will just send my paycheck to the state government and let them send back what they think I need.

If anyone lives in California who reads this take Mikes advice and write the state reps.

Gee, I wonder why the others are not saying anything about this stupid contradiction. Do they agree with it, or are they saying "screw California" under their breath?

I dont' live in California, but now that we have idiots running the show on both sides of the aisle, with all types of money interests playing puppet masters, this thing might spread.

Dear Senator Chesbro,

Thanks for spending time with us at the Vallejo Rotary club last week.

I an very concerned about the requirement that a business has to provide insurance for the Independent Contractors they hire. That is outrageous and I want it removed from California law as soon as possible.

As a small businessman, a video production company, I have to hire directors, camerapersons, sound persons and lighting experts on a per-job basis. These people make their living hiring their company's services to companies like mine.

The effect of this insurance law is to increase by 50% the amount of money I have to charge my clients for their work.

As I've already found out, to nobody's surprise, the price increase is not accepted gracefully.

I feel the state overburdens the small business and this is just the frosting on the cake.

I could make more money by moving out of state and accepting lower prices for my work.

Certainly, until I determine if at least this law will be modified or repealed I will be forced to send contracts for creative work like 3D graphics, narrative services and script-writing out of state.

We continue to make California a hostile place to do business and I'd like you to do something about it before all we can do is stand around and reminisce how nice it was when California had an industrial base.

Ahh jeez guys, I'm on my way out there next week! What a bummer. Although, while I owned my own theatrical production company here in texas, I carried liability and workers comp on my independent contractors. Basically, I explained to the show owners, that this was for THEIR protection in case they were hurt. I still sold shows.

Still, it's a pain in the neck.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : Had an opportunity to talk with the local State Senator about this surprise. He knew nothing about it even though he heads up the Finance Committee.-->>>

Maybe it's just me but I'd be as concerned about this as the new insurance requirement. Did you ask him why he isn't doing his job?

Dennis Vogel

I don't think any one person can be aware of all of the legislation and laws in California.

this is very interesting thread, the only way to fight this legislation is through the courts, prove its un-justifiable...i bet your senator is in bed with the insurance companies, as this is the least friendly small business law i have seen in a long time...

the only thought i have is does this law apply to all california business or all business doing business in california? maybe setting up nevada certificate might help...

Legislator looking out for the interest of the insurance companies more than the people who voted him in? Gee, now that is news.

EDITED FOR CONTENT

Law, did you see a sign in our yard that says "political forum"?
No.
Do you know why you didn't see a sign that says "political forum?"
Because discussing politics ain't our business!


Discussing the business ramifications of the law is fine, but if you are looking to make this into a political debate, you are going to find yourself on the business end of my DELETE key faster than you can say "Micheal Moore". This thread is being klenzed and returned to its previous topic.

Thank you

Thanks, Dylan. Much appreciated.

Folks, please use this board to discuss business all you want.

Political issues, however, serve no purpose here except to turn community members against each other. Please do not sabotage this board with poltical topics. Thanks all,

Well Dylan, thank you for letting me know where the cut line is.

Hi Mike,

Since I am an incorporated business in California, you would not have to pay insurance costs for me. You also don't have to provide me with a 10-99 (Misc. income) form at the end of the year either.

In fact if you hire any legitimate business you would not have to provide their insurance.

This law was set-up to discourage employers from hiring "Independent Contractors" in an attempt to avoid paying taxes to the state and Federal government. Very few people are true Independent Contractors. Many times they are employees.

That being said, yes California is not an easy state to do business in. Unless of course you are a lawyer, politician, or burgler.....you know, all those guys in the trade. <grin>

David Mesloh
Independent in all ways