However, I was simply interested to know what I need to consider after I believe that there is nothing else to add to my script and am ready to try to start the journey of making it a film.

From my own experience, the best thing to do is just make a short film. Put your script in a drawer, find some friends with the necessary gear and some interest in making fools of themselves, find a location, write a 5-7 page scene for that location, shoot it, edit it and show it to everyone you know.

One project I participated in was the 48 Hour Film Project (www.48hourfilm.com) back in April in Philadelphia. The Louisville weekend is mid-July this year. Having such a short timeline forces you to be structured and well-prepared, but given the "curveballs" they throw at you, you also have to improvise. After that weekend, I had an instant appreciation for just how difficult it is to do this stuff. At the same time, I no longer feel overwhelmed at the prospect of doing it again. It's amazing how much you can learn in such a short period of time.

As everyone else has already said, your first attempt will be awful. Expect it. Embrace it. No one learns anything from instant success. What you're hoping for are the one or two things that turn out exactly the way you envisioned them, and that's what will keep you from being completely discouraged. It's like golf...it's the one good shot during the round that keeps you coming back.

Whilst you start with a "finished" script there will be rewrites and changes all through production...

The script may be "improved" to fit anything from actors to locations and for any reason, including budget restraints or practicality.

From the original script a shooting script is created and a shotlist/shooting schedule is worked out. This basically puts everything in an order in which it can be shot efficiently. Versioning is important in production (because of all the rewrites).

Talent gets "sides" with their lines/interaction; yet another script.

Script writeing software can usually create the different script layouts for you (shooting, sides, etc.)

George/

P.S. If you have a feature length script, quite possibly there are a few scenes or twists that you can rework into a short for some hands-on experience. Not unusual to play around with the same theme.

Andy...I am STILL downloading this damn promo video!! how big is it? haha


Lmao, sorry man it was as small as i could get it and still maintain the quality.

Yeah you were right friday night was crazy, i paid for it the next day though......at least i had this thread to keep my mind off it :).

As for who writes up the shotlist i still recommend doing it yourself cause it really gets you into the nuts and bolts of the film and thats the kind of intimate knowlage of the film you need.

Also i think location hunting is one of the best parts of filmmaking......its a good feeling when you find that perfect place like i did in my promo

From my own experience, the best thing to do is just make a short film. Put your script in a drawer, find some friends with the necessary gear and some interest in making fools of themselves, find a location, write a 5-7 page scene for that location, shoot it, edit it and show it to everyone you know.

Hey Sean, thanks for the feedback. I do intend on creating a short film that I hope will get me started in the processes of making a film on my own. I have been in the process of writing a script for it lately. Just yesterday I found the first scene for it.

You mentioned the Louisville weekend? what were you refering to? I live 20 minutes from Louisville Kentucky...

I finally got to see it after 20 minutes of downloading!! haha. I do admit it was worth it. It was well done. Which one was you? the guy in the first scene or the guy who blasted himself at the end?

The only thing though..nothing bad, but I thought the look of the shots were odd. Maybe it was the compression of the video over the internet, but it just seamed alittle wierd. Not like it was off but just..i dunno how to explain it honestly..it was like the gain or sharpness was turned up so much that it sort of distorted the colors maybe? I don't even know if that is what would do that to be honest but thats the only thing I saw that was alittle odd.

BTW, what frame rate was it shot in?

You mentioned the Louisville weekend? what were you refering to? I live 20 minutes from Louisville Kentucky...

Check the list of cities at the link I posted. I believe the project is running in your town July 18th. You probably still have time to register. Some cities cap the number of entries, others don't. I'm not sure about Louisville.

For what it's worth, don't spend too much time on the script on your first short. It's sort of irrelevant. Lighting and sound are equally difficult with good scripts and bad scripts. Just go get your hands dirty, so to speak.

Check the list of cities at the link I posted. I believe the project is running in your town July 18th. You probably still have time to register. Some cities cap the number of entries, others don't. I'm not sure about Louisville.

Alright awesome, thanks! Unfortunately I will be in Portugal in July...

But thanks for letting me know!

I wasn't actually in it myself, i was the dop, i filmed it and edited it.

I think what your reffering to is the day for night filter i used, well its meant to be more like late evening. Its been re edited since then (minor changes).

I always shoot safe which means i get a good quality un filtered image and do all my correction in post so its non destructive.

I shot it on the jvc hd100 in HDV25p mode.

thanks for watching it.

Andy.

.... However, I was simply interested to know what I need to consider after I believe that there is nothing else to add to my script and am ready to try to start the journey of making it a film.

The comment about the shot list was just an appreciation of some experienced insight.

Again, thank you.
-Terry.

The biggest problem with any writing, scripts included, is not adding things to the piece but figuring out what to take away. Polishing is a process of removing the superfluous in order to strengthen the essential.

For what it's worth, don't spend too much time on the script on your first short. It's sort of irrelevant. Lighting and sound are equally difficult with good scripts and bad scripts. Just go get your hands dirty, so to speak.

OK for a quick play around, but if you want to have short that's does anywhere you need a really sharp script. You can get other people to DP and record sound.

The biggest problem with any writing, scripts included, is not adding things to the piece but figuring out what to take away. Polishing is a process of removing the superfluous in order to strengthen the essential.

Yes sir, well noted. I have in mind a few writers who will help me thin out the script if need be as well as sharpen.

I wasn't actually in it myself, i was the dop, i filmed it and edited it.

I think what your reffering to is the day for night filter i used, well its meant to be more like late evening. Its been re edited since then (minor changes).

I always shoot safe which means i get a good quality un filtered image and do all my correction in post so its non destructive.

I shot it on the jvc hd100 in HDV25p mode.

thanks for watching it.

Andy.

Yea, I think that is what it is...were you going for more of a "film" look? I enjoyed the shots in the woods with the ferns, those were awesome but the movement of everything seamed a little faster than I anticipated for a 25p frame rate.. Do you think that has to do with the shutter speed you had it set to? Or is that as close as we can get with digital cameras before we must actually use film? (Assuming you were going for the film look..)

Over all it was awesome! I honestly want to see the finished product! The sequence of shots is what set it off. The tracking shot in the beginning through the forest where it stopped with one character hiding behind a tree was good as well as the shot at the end of the civilian’s eyes when being questioned. That shot emphasized instilled fear which was a good touch.

OK for a quick play around, but if you want to have short that's does anywhere you need a really sharp script. You can get other people to DP and record sound.

If the goal is to maintain creative control, you have to produce it yourself. I can't imagine you could recruit anyone worth their salt to work on a project, or raise cash to pay them, if you don't have at least a modicum of experience in all aspects of the process.

It's only a "play around" if you approach it as one. The goal should be quick hard lessons on how to actually get something completed. If you spend weeks and weeks writing and rewriting half a dozen pages, aren't we just stuck right where the original poster is now? Another stack of paper waiting for someone else to recognize the brilliance? It's much easier to buckle down and shoot something you're not terribly invested in for a first go. Otherwise, you're back to being afraid of "wasting" the writing with a poor production.

Thanks for the comments Terry im glad you liked it.

I think with the way cameras are progressing the gap between film and digital is gonna shrink dramatically. The RED camera is an amazing piece of technology and i couldn't tell the diffirence when i watched "jumper"

In my opinion the "film look" is simply progressive scan, and i think the hd100 in hdv25p mode is one of the nicest looking progressive cameras.....although i hate hdv as a formatte because its murder to work with.

BTW im glad you picked out the shot of the civilians eyes cause for me that was the pivital part of the whole thing, i was so worried that we got an actor that couldn't deliver the goods but Peter was great http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1280176/

Andy.

In my opinion the "film look" is simply progressive scan, and i think the hd100 in hdv25p mode is one of the nicest looking progressive cameras.....although i hate hdv as a formatte because its murder to work with.

Oh its hard to work with hdv? Do you mind me asking what about it is difficult? I plan on buying the HD200u...

If the goal is to maintain creative control, you have to produce it yourself. I can't imagine you could recruit anyone worth their salt to work on a project, or raise cash to pay them, if you don't have at least a modicum of experience in all aspects of the process.

It's only a "play around" if you approach it as one. The goal should be quick hard lessons on how to actually get something completed. If you spend weeks and weeks writing and rewriting half a dozen pages, aren't we just stuck right where the original poster is now? Another stack of paper waiting for someone else to recognize the brilliance? It's much easier to buckle down and shoot something you're not terribly invested in for a first go. Otherwise, you're back to being afraid of "wasting" the writing with a poor production.

No, assuming you've got a good story and a good script, quite a few people will want to work on it. However, you do have to learn the skills of a producer, or team up with someone who wishes to go down that path and sees what's in the story.

There are crew people starting out in the industry who wish to practise their skills and shorts are a good place to do it. Many of them are happy to take a smart, talented writer who wishes to direct, who is willing to learn and has done their homework (i.e. been reading various books on filmmaking/production, so they know the questions to ask) in under their wing and give guidance. These are usually freebies. Filmmaking is a collaborative process and this isn't that unusual.

You can do technical exercises, which are fine, but writing and directing a good short is a difficult business and requires creative application. All the successful, award winning shorts that I know of have had weeks of work in their scripts.

People can go out shooting material to learn the mechanical processes, but they'll have to apply the scripting process in order to really progress. In some ways, as a director, you're better knowing the editing than the camera end.

There is a whole load of science behind HDV, if you google it or search this forum youl'll find it.

What all this means is that when using final cut pro you get problems during the capture process, if final cut encounters a timecode break or drop out it creates a new clip. It takes the computer around 1-4 seconds to re aquire the image which means your loosing 1-4 seconds of your footage and thats a real pain if it does it in the middle of an actors dialogue or your dolly shot.

Although iv not been keeping up to date in the pro hd room i think it still hasn't been fixed by apple. And iv not updated my software in a long time.

I don't want to put you off the camera cause the image is superb. To minimise this problem you can use proper HDV tapes and remember to roll the camera for 10 sec before and after "action" is called.

go and rent this film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0857376/ cause it was shot entirely on the HD100, thats another bit of advice.......watch movies, as many as you can cram into your personal time. you need t know whats out there and to watch others. Iv seen so many films i wouldn't know where to start if someone asked me to list them.......the french are twisted by the way! watch some of their stuff.

Andy.

go and rent this film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0857376/ cause it was shot entirely on the HD100, thats another bit of advice.......watch movies, as many as you can cram into your personal time. you need t know whats out there and to watch others. Iv seen so many films i wouldn't know where to start if someone asked me to list them.......the french are twisted by the way! watch some of their stuff.

Andy.

That was shot on the HD100? Wow, the camera is capable of doing more than I thought. I honestly cannot tell it from film. I looked it up on youtube btw.. but I will still go rent it.

About French films...I saw one a year ago about like some underground sex cult...it was insane. Some guy's face gets smashed with a fire extinguisher and they show the entire thing.

Give me a list of films and I'll go rent em!

About French films...I saw one a year ago about like some underground sex cult...it was insane. Some guy's face gets smashed with a fire extinguisher and they show the entire thing.

Man i'm impressed, the film was called "irreversible" by Gaspar Noe and its one of the films i had in mind.

lot of the films i watch are so obscure i wouldn't even know where to direct you to get them. They come through other filmmaker friends.

Off the top of my head i would recommend

"feast" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0426459/ an american film that i don't think was ever released over here . Ithought this film was hillarious.

As mentioned before "five across the eyes" shot for absolutely buttons (£2000) starts bad but bare with it cause by the end you'll be shouting at the screen about what they should do......at least i was. its not a good film but by the end it developes character.

"Pans Labyrinth" a bit more mainstream but one of my favourate films

"itchi the killer" insane film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0296042/

"shutter" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0440803/ the origional one not the re make.

"the exorcism of emily rose" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0404032/ a film that i love......... and then rent "Requiem" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454931/ which is a German film about the same story. Its a good exorcise to see the different ways other filmmakers and countries deal with the same story.

Some of the more obscure ones i can't remember the names of so ill post back when i talk to my Director friend who i'm picking up today to work on our script.

Andy.

alright awesome, thanks! I'll go see if I can find them.

My favorite movies are generally historically bassed movies like Breaveheart, 300, Troy..etc. I have just as big of a history channel, National Geographic collection as I do anything else.

For practice, I printed off the script for Robin Hood - The prince of Thives. I find that they cut out alot of the movie to make it fit within a reasonable time frame.

Hey BTW, since you work with the HD100, what would you suggest for a good matte box for my HD200, Chrosziel? what specs if so..

Hey BTW, since you work with the HD100, what would you suggest for a good matte box for my HD200, Chrosziel? what specs if so..

I just bought a great little matte box recently. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-BAR-MATTE-BOX-w-SIDE-FLAGS-ROTATING-FILTERS_W0QQitemZ260241476971QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3319QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l12 62

superb bit of kit for not much money considering the chrosziel is about a grand. it fits like a glove and is just the right size (i.e its not bigger than the camera like some others iv seen)

Andy.

awesome..now that looks like a good matte box for the price range i'm looking for.

any suggestions for a follow focus? well let me ask you this. The only reason I think I need a damn follow focus is because HD is of such a high resolution everyone will notice when my shot is out of focus. So my reasoning behind it is if I want crisp in focus shots, I will need a follow focus. But is that even a good reason to spend almost a grand on one?

The follow focus won't get your shots any more in focus than if you just turned the focus ring with your hand as normal. The reason to use a follow focus is (at least in the digital realm) for focus pulls, thats when you have an actor in the foreground and an actor in the background and you switch focus from one to the other. In this case you focus on one actor and mark the ring on the follow focus and then focus on the other actor and do the same, then a focus puller can move btween each mark and you know it will be in focus.

If i were you id find one at a similar price to the mattebox, there are many of them around, the same company on ebay that does the mattebox also does a follow focus. Be carefull though, look at the pictures to se what side the gear is on, i had trouble fitting mine and i ended up doing a bit of diy modification to the base on the rail system.

i wouldn't spend a grand on it. use the money to buy other things like a good mic, the sennheisser ME66 is a half decent boom mic.

Andy.

The follow focus won't get your shots any more in focus than if you just turned the focus ring with your hand as normal. The reason to use a follow focus is (at least in the digital realm) for focus pulls, thats when you have an actor in the foreground and an actor in the background and you switch focus from one to the other. In this case you focus on one actor and mark the ring on the follow focus and then focus on the other actor and do the same, then a focus puller can move btween each mark and you know it will be in focus.


Ohhh alright, so the knob is turned toward the camera man so that he has easier access to the focus ring...Well thats odd, I thought that is what the letus35 was built to do. From my understanding, the zoom lenses on the cameras had such a wide appeture (I think...) that you couldn't really get good control of the DOF. So you'd need something like the letus35 or mini35 for digital film. But i'm probably absolutely wrong on that haha.


i wouldn't spend a grand on it. use the money to buy other things like a good mic, the sennheisser ME66 is a half decent boom mic.


Yea, I plan on getting a DAT recorder with a boom mic...that will be thrown in with everything as well. I am sort of taking it step by step still. Making sure I know EVERYTHING about each little aspect of the equipment. I remember back when I first started posting in this forum you were one of the first to help me with this stuff. Btw, how did the reconstructions in caithness turn out?

Hey id forgotten all about that, that job never went ahead.....not sure what happened with it. Good memory though

The follow focus is just an add on to the lens so that the focus puller can easily control the focus ring. With film it has a very shallow depth of field which means not much room for the actor to move before he is out of focus and so they have a professional focus puller that controls the focus leaving the camera operator to do his job.

The mini35 and letus35 are designed to put the exact same field of view as a 35mm film camera on to the CCD chips, this coupled with film lenses gives you the same depth of field as a film camera, which also brings the problems of a film camera i.e shallow depth of field and not much room to move.

I'v never used a lens adapter before so im limited in what i can tell you about them, i just know id be very reluctant to use one unless i had a lot of time with one to test it out. They used the stock lens when they shot "Gabriel"

Normally i keep it safe with the stock lens and if i want shallow depth of field i use the telly photo end of the lens and get as far back from the actor as i can (like the focus pull in my promo)

Andy.

BTW if your ever stuck during production drop me an email through my public profile and i'll do my best to help you out.

The mini35 and letus35 are designed to put the exact same field of view as a 35mm film camera on to the CCD chips, this coupled with film lenses gives you the same depth of field as a film camera, which also brings the problems of a film camera i.e shallow depth of field and not much room to move.

So bassically, The mini35 and the Letus35 just alows DV cameras to operate optically like film cameras correct? Would you think that would be pretty necessary? probably not since you don't use one and your shots are pretty damn good from what I saw with the promo trailer.

So what do you think with a follow focus then..should I even waste my time? I mean, I can get someone to be my focus puller, but honestly I don't see the need for me, someone who is just learning this stuff, to spend that kind of money on one.

I think all I'm gonna worry about is a matte box, hard drive for the hd200, battery pack (anton bauer..), filters for the matte... Boom mic... Does that seam a little bare?

anyway...I'll definately keep you in mind. I really appreciate you helping me out with this stuff. Honestly, no one around here is interested in film what so ever. What is your personal website?

So bassically, The mini35 and the Letus35 just alows DV cameras to operate optically like film cameras correct? Would you think that would be pretty necessary? probably not since you don't use one and your shots are pretty damn good from what I saw with the promo trailer.


You've got it now, i personally don't think its necessary because im still very much learning the craft as well and i don't want to give my self the extra stress of worrying if the footage is in focus or not especially if im making a film that some one has invested in. I'm not saying don't use one, there are many that do and if done right it looks great, im just saying its something to think about.

You're right the follow focus isn't that important and to be honest iv only used it once, what i will say for it though is when you have an HD100 or in your case HD200 with mattebox rails and follow focus it is very impressive to look at and that is IMO an important factor, your actors and crew will feel better if they are working with professional looking equipment especiall if they're not getting paid..

As long as you have a camera, tripod, audio equipment and an edit suit you can make a film. If you want shots like in my promo you'll need a crane and dolly, if you read my shadow land thread you'll see there is a lot you can make your self.

My web site is www.camerashy.org.uk but it is seriously out of date, the guy who updates it is in thailand at the moment and won't be back for a while. I intend on getting a website made specifically for shadow land, i have a web designer that owes me a favour.

Andy.

Hey Andy, I have been working like crazy this week and haven't been able to get to the computer lately. I came down with a cold the other day too. No fun at all...

I think for now I will just stick with the stock 16x lens and worry about adapters once I get a good hold on this stuff. I would still like to get a good matte box. The one you suggested/bought looks pretty reasonable and you liked it, so thats good enough for me. But filters....what did you end up getting?

For audio I was looking at the A/T 897. B&H has a pretty good kit...what do you think? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421938-REG/Audio_Technica_AT897BK_AT_897_Shotgun_Microphone.html

Editing suit - Final Cut Pro on the Mac

Tripod - I honestly have no clue. Every tripod I look at looks flemsy and the head looks like it will hardly hold the camera.

I have plans drawn to build my own Steadicam but I don't have the proper dimensions.

I have already built my own crane and dolly just sitting and waiting to be used.

Hey Terry, Yeah i don't think you'll be disappointed with that matte box, i was over the moon with it. As for filters i'v not actually bought any for it, i use it mainly for controling the light that goes into the lens, if i was going to buy a filter it would be a polarizing filter which just cuts out reflections in glass. i wouldn't use any coloured filters cause you can do that in final cut studio and its non destructive.

The mic kit looks good to me, never used it before but audio technica are a decent make and the price seems about right.

Remember and buy final cut studio 2, i know its expensive but you need the full workflow from capture to dvd.

For a tripod i use a manfrotto http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/487786-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_501HDV_525PKIT_525MVB_Tripod_w_501HDV_3284_.html the 501 head is a good head although with the hd100 fully loaded its at the limit of its weight capabillities and the alternative is a bigger system which can cost up to £3000, i used a 503 once and didn't like it as much.

By all means give it a go with building a steadicam but its a very complicated bit of equipment and there are some reasonably priced systems out there like the glidecam smooth shooter.

Andy.

Yeah, that matte looks just as good as any one of the expensive ones... What are the little flaps inside for? I've never seen them on a matte box before..or maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough..

I currently work with PC. But I am thinking about switching to Mac..But to get a system with the performance I am needing to edit video of the caliber, it will cost me around the £2000 range.. (I think that should be like 4 grand in U.S. currency). With PC, I can build a decent machine for around $1200. So whats drawing me toward PC is that I am familiar with it and it is less expensive. What is drawing me toward Mac is FCP2 and Mac computers generally preform better not to mention a lot of feature films are edited with FCP2. So I suppose what I am afraid of is dumping money into a system that won't preform properly. I had it mind to get Sony Vegas and build my own PC. Vegas runs around $500 and the system I would build would be, like I said, around the $1200 range. I think I'm talking myself into sticking with PC, but what would you do in this situation?

The reason I chose that AT kit was because it was decently priced with a boom pole. I discussed getting a mixer before but I think I will be fine without one for now...

Also, one last thing...What is the hard drive that is built for the HD100/200? I forget the name/number. I would way rather work with a hard drive because I don't want to run time up on my camera using tape unless I want to buy a decent deck which equals more money..

Ok, time to go lay down and try to get rid of this cold. I bought the BBC Planet Earth series..I fall asleep half way through every episode, but it is absolutely amazing.

what would you do in this situation?

Iv been in that situation, i built my own pc about 5 years ago to edit a feature that i had shot and i edited it on adobe premiere pro. It crashed twice and i had to re edit the film twice! then One of the fans failed and my mother board got fried. It cost me a grand to build and within a year it was lying in my yard waiting to go to the dump.

I obviously had a bad experience with built pc's and a lot of people have very successfull experiences and id never put you off buying one but it was enough for me to leave pc's for editing forever. I bought a quadcore G5 2.5 GHz with 2gb ram, two 20" monitors and final cut studio and iv never looked back, The whole system cost me about 5.5K but worth every pennyl. Its never let me down once.

The flaps inside the matte box are just to protect the lens although i fold them back out the road and leave them there.

As for the Hard drive a company i do some work for gave me one to test and get familiar with. They are great little devices but during my testing i did find on two occasions that it skiped a few seconds of footage, it didn't happen offten enough to become a problem though. What we did find is that if you are under the preasure of a deadline we found ourselves going back to using tapes. It also adds weight to the camera. I think in a situation like filmmaking where you have time to use one they would be fantastic to work with and with HDV you don't need to worry so much about drop out or timecode breaks.

All of this is just my experiences, ultimately you'll need to decide what is the best option for you given your budget restraints.

hope the cold gets better soon.

Andy.

I bought a quadcore G5 2.5 GHz with 2gb ram, two 20" monitors and final cut studio and iv never looked back, The whole system cost me about 5.5K but worth every pennyl. Its never let me down once.

$5500? wow... that price scares me.. Eventhough I will be paying that much for the camera.. That is a hard decision to make... Final Cut Studio 2 on a Mac...or Sony Vegas on a PC.... UGH!!

I would love to just go with the Mac but I just don't know exactly what I would be benifiting by going with Mac..I mean, if it wasn't so expensive I woudn't think twice..but for my needs I think the price is a little over what I am wanting to spend.

I would like to get something like the 40G Dr-hd100 so all I have to do is just take it from my camera and plug it into my computer and just drag the footage to the time line without having to render the footage... but aparently they are discontinued??

So far with everything on my list my kit roughly costs $12,700

HD200u $5400
Matte Box (one you suggested) $500
A/t 897 $600
Tripod (based on the B&H link you sent me) $700
FCS2+MacPro $5500 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/459972-REG/B_H_Photo__Final_Cut_Studio_2_Mac.html)


But if we replace FCS2+MacPro with Vegas and a PC...

Vegas $500
PC $1300 including 20" monitor

Everything will equal = $9000

And neither include the hard drive...or a battery pack...

I now have a head ache...

is there any way you see that I could work with these numbers and get things cheeper and still have a fully functional kit? Maybe i'm over pricing stuff...

is there any way you see that I could work with these numbers and get things cheeper and still have a fully functional kit? Maybe i'm over pricing stuff...

im afraid not your numbers seem about right. Of course if you keep looking on ebay or other second hand options you could save money.There is also the option of hiring and borrowing the gear only when you're filming. if you just bought the essentials like tripod camera and edit suite and hire or borrow the rest when you film then you could get that number down.

btw It wasn't $5500 it was £5500, i added ram and extra monitors and a firewire 16 channel mixing desk for ADR work and a hi def TV for previewing my work (which iv yet to get working properly).

Iv built my equipment up over the years adding to it every so often when i can afford it, its the only way to do it unless your loaded which unfortunately i am not :(

Andy.

:/ crap... well I'm on my way to getting things situated where I can afford to just buy everything out right. I currently run a small car "business" where I buy cars from car auctions, fix them up and flip them for a profit. I could currently just buy everything including the Mac but it would completely shut my business down. I have to wait until I double my investments which might take awhile longer than I had anticipated as I am not as skilled in the trades of the car business as most.

so $8600 for your editing suit?? wow.. well I suppose its worth it when you have a business that actually makes money. Me on the other hand, I just have a passion to make films. I always have ever since highschool. I remember when the xl1 came out, I had a fund raiser where people would donate toward my "camera fund raiser." I actually collected over 300 bucks during my senior year. But at that time, the xl1 was around $5500 so I was no where close. I ended up going to college for Anthropology and have just recently picked back up with my old desire to make films. Hopefully my efforts this time will be successful.

Hey Andy, thanks alot for helping me with this stuff, your opinion really helps. When I sharpen down a good copy of the short script I'll send you a copy so you can tell me how horrible it is haha.

-Terry.

Hey Andy, thanks alot for helping me with this stuff, your opinion really helps. When I sharpen down a good copy of the short script I'll send you a copy so you can tell me how horrible it is haha.

Hey no problem, thats what this place is for. I remember the day before we shot our first feature in 2004 (i was 23), i was driving home from Edinburgh with my two company partners and we were all excited. That night all the cast and crew gathered on my patio for some wine and that night i knew it was gonna be a disaster.......i got a feeling in my gut. And sure enough our main location which was a woodland got chopped down by the forest commision and it rained heavily for two weeks solid. That coupled with the fact we knew nothing about feature filmmaking it all went wrong.

Just remember if your shoot goes bad its not as bad as it seems. So many mistakes we made but we came out the other end stronger for it, the film was never completed but we got some great experience about how to manage a film. The second feature was completed and with a lot less problems, we enterd it into the Edinburgh film festival but were declined.......oh well we had our own big premiere and everyone seemed to like it. Now with our promo for shadow land the production value has made leaps and bounds and its the first feature we're trying to get funding or investment on.

Be carefull if your thinking of getting investment and shooting it yourself, as i said first time filmmakers will most likely go wrong. If we had investors with our first film the stress level would have been rediculous and the fact we messed it up we would have been sitting in hot water.

The creative side is only a part of it, you need to be able to orginise locations, transport, food, lodgings, deal with problems when they happen, even quarrels with actors and still manage all your gear and stck to the schedule and all the while making sure your shots are good. Just so you know what you're up against, you can do it , you just need to be prepared which is why pre production is a very important time. Make a list of everything you need to do and tick them off when you know they have been secured, and listn to the opinions of the people around you.

I'd be happy to read your scrip when its done but you should know when it comes to scripts i always say what i think, scrip writing is no time to humour people and say its good. You need complete honesty from people reading your script or you'll get a tainted view.

Andy.

I could currently just buy everything including the Mac but it would completely shut my business down.

Yeah, don't do that.

It may not have sunk in too much yet, but I want to stress filmmaking is a collaborative business. You need other people not just for their skills, but just to make the process manageable. Don't try to do it all by yourself.

Really the only way to learn is from – and with – others.

Find an editor, find someone with a camera (or a DoP and operator), find some actors that are willing to help you realize the script. There will still be plenty of challenges that way.

A lot of people starting out will participate for 'credit' (and experience) with deferred salaries.

Wait with buying a camera , any gear really, until you know for a fact that it will be what you need.

George/

Wait with buying a camera , any gear really, until you know for a fact that it will be what you need.

Good advice, it also means that because camera technology moves so fast by the time your ready to buy there may be new technology available to you.

Andy.

Terry, that's wierd! I'm currently in school working toward a double major in Anthropology and Film Studies with a production emphasis. Our first feature was fraught with difficulties as well, still not done editing (I'm thinking of starting the edit from scratch - ick). You don't need a top of the line machine for editing, I'm running with a dual 2.0Ghz G5 and it edits HDV just fine. Just puts tons of RAM and tons of Disk space.

I used to edit on a Performa 475 (definitely not DV)... You'll always get lots of responses from people giving ideal setups for editing, the truth is that you can halve that budget for the hardware and be really happy with what you get! I started the edit of the feature on a dual 1.42 Ghz G4 with an older version of Final Cut Pro.

Stop thinking ideals and start thinking what will get the job done within your budget.

The creative side is only a part of it, you need to be able to orginise locations, transport, food, lodgings, deal with problems when they happen, even quarrels with actors and still manage all your gear and stck to the schedule and all the while making sure your shots are good. Just so you know what you're up against, you can do it , you just need to be prepared which is why pre production is a very important time. Make a list of everything you need to do and tick them off when you know they have been secured, and listn to the opinions of the people around you.

This is true....But it seams that I cannot get anyone supporting me to understand this. They still think they can just shoot a movie by themselves without organization. Every time I say "well we need a script" ..one of my friends goes "we don't need a script, just have fun and it will all come to you.." needless to say he still lives in candy land with the keebler elves if he thinks life is just that easy. That might be fine when you are just shooting home movies in your back yard...but he tries to apply that same logic when we go to the movies. We seen "Hot Rod" awhile back and he always uses that as an example..."see they just had fun and their movie was awesome!" And when I try to tell him otherwise, he argues with me like hes been in the field for 20 years. He expects when I get this equipment that I'm just gonna hand it to him and go "have fun!" all I have to say to that is "HAHAHAHAHA"

When I say I'm alone with this stuff, I mean mentally haha...

I'd be happy to read your scrip when its done but you should know when it comes to scripts i always say what i think, scrip writing is no time to humour people and say its good. You need complete honesty from people reading your script or you'll get a tainted view.

That would be great...I need constructive criticism, or atleast honest criticism.

Terry, that's wierd! I'm currently in school working toward a double major in Anthropology and Film Studies with a production emphasis. Our first feature was fraught with difficulties as well, still not done editing (I'm thinking of starting the edit from scratch - ick). You don't need a top of the line machine for editing, I'm running with a dual 2.0Ghz G5 and it edits HDV just fine. Just puts tons of RAM and tons of Disk space.

I used to edit on a Performa 475 (definitely not DV)... You'll always get lots of responses from people giving ideal setups for editing, the truth is that you can halve that budget for the hardware and be really happy with what you get! I started the edit of the feature on a dual 1.42 Ghz G4 with an older version of Final Cut Pro.

Stop thinking ideals and start thinking what will get the job done within your budget.


How far along are you with your degree? What in particular do you find interesting in Anthropology?


What do you suggest in terms of a Mac machine? Something that isn't too expensive and will run just fine while editing HDV..? I honestly have never used a Mac..the only time I ever touched one was to check my email on a friends Mac book...

Wait with buying a camera , any gear really, until you know for a fact that it will be what you need.

Of course... I'm not spending any money until I know exactly what I need. I've been researching this for about a year now and haven't bought a single thing.

I obviously don't know your friend so i won't comment on him but i do know my friends who work with me, we talk to each other and listen to each other and we are always willing to hear and consider any opinion or idea. We are all very much on the same page and having gone through two feature films.....problems and all we still love working together. You need people like that around you or you'll just end up fighting with each other.

Ask yourself this, do you both like the same films and have the same ideas as to where a film career will take you? do you both want to do the same job? are you both as serious about filmmaking as eachother?

Its important you work well together.

Ask yourself this, do you both like the same films and have the same ideas as to where a film career will take you? do you both want to do the same job? are you both as serious about filmmaking as eachother?

Its important you work well together.


Well, he and I have ambitions in the same directions only I have ambitions to do other things as well. He simply wants to make comedy films and he believes that his ideas (mine included) are good enough to perpetuate the film(s) to success. However, he doesn't show any interest in contributing other than to be an actor in a film. Every time I bring up our budget, script or pre production preperations, he says nothing for about 2 minutes then acts like I said nothing at all (kind of like a little kid would..) and goes on talking about something else.

I think if he sees things happening, he will become more involved.

I'm a couple of semesters and my field school away from completion on both majors :) I like that anthropology is mostly a conceptual look at the overarching systems of humanity, I find that fascinating which is probably what I love about film as well.

For a mac, you can edit HDV on anything they currently have out... including the iMac. You'll want to max it out for RAM and buy the biggest internal HD and a large external as well. I use a weibetech (sp?) drive dock so I can buy inexpensive internal ide drives and connect them when I need them.

My workflow is when I fire up FCP I set the scratch drive to whatever project folder I'm going to work on. When I switch projects, I just have to switch folders which makes it possible to have each project I'm working on reside on an external drive (120Gb can hold 5-10 10 minute short films - depending on how you capture the footage and how much audio work you do in soundtrack. I have my feature on a single 250Gb drive, which I've backed up out of paranoia to another).

With this setup, as I run out of room, I just buy another inexpensive ide drive and edit away without cluttering up my system drive. I've currently got about 1.5-2 Tb of drive space in smaller chunks in a stack of internal bare drives on my desk.

You can probably hook up a decent editing system with Final Cut Studio and a bunch of RAM and HD for (checking apple store) $1599 for the 20"iMac with max HD and RAM and $1299 for FCS full license. You can get about a $100 discount on the machine as a student ($1509), but I wouldn't get the *amazing* student discount ($699) on the software as the license doesn't allow you to make projects for commercial use.

I would add the apple support plan to the order too, just in case...cause electronics break. I would make sure to wait until after this week though as the WWDC is coming up this week and there's usually something introduced there that can potentially drop prices.

Hey Cole, I went to the Apple Store and looked at their refurbished units but they didn't have anything with the right combination of RAM and disk space...So I went ahead and built one and it costs about $3800.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/9334001/wo/rv1mZs8ktWzk2y4fJyiFuWPEcCo/1.?p=0

I got 1TB of Disk space but only 2GB of RAM as well as a second 20" monitor. Only thing I don't have on there is the protection plan. I want to get 1TB external HD but where would I go to get one those cheap for Mac? TigerDirect...?

Terry do you plan to make this on your own?...i.e you and your friends?.......if so you'll need the advice of the people on this site as you go. There are many people here willing to give you advice and guide you through it the best they........we can.....ask questions, theres a lot of filmmakers here of all skills.

It sounds to me like you are, given that you are buying or considering buying the gear to do so.

I made my first film cold turkey before i knew of this place, i wish i had the knowlage and experience of the people on this site to guide me then........it may have been completed.

Andy.

Andy, I certainly plan on doing this myself. I am not one to give up on anything. This has certainly been something I have been wanting to do for quite a long time and regardless if my friends I started this thing with are with me, I am going to go through with it. I know once I get everything situated it will not be hard to find participants. The friends are still a little afraid of change, and this for them is a big change. I think it simply scares them that there is a big price tag on this. They don't understand where the money is going and are re-contemplating going through with it. I think maybe thats the reason they are acting so akward when I bring things up. Me on the other hand, I have been investing thousands into vehicles not knowing if I will get my money back. Luckly I was successful and am making a good profit. The biggest thing they have invested their money in is gas...

This forum has certainly helped me out. In fact, it has taught me everything I know about the business. I kind of like to think of it as the big Verizon network...ever seen that commercial with like 1000 people behind this one guy walking down the street? Hmmmm....wonder how I could actually organize that.... :)

You have the right attitude towards filmmaking, It's going to be tough and i know its easy to start second guessing yourself about wether or not you are shooting it properly and getting the coverage you need...........i was the same and i still am. It gets easier to see the angles and anticipate problems.

All i can say is stay focused and do the best you can and most importantly enjoy it.

All the best of luck.

Andy

Out of my mind last night at the casino playing black jack and won $500. Then got home and found a $100 chip in my pocket under my keys haha... think that might help me out a bit here...

CHEERS!

Terry - my advice is before you go any further buy and read this book:

http://www.medialawyer.com/indiefilm/excerpt_1.html

It's the best book out there that I have read letting you know what you are really in for in terms of legal logistics if you want to make a potentially successful indie feature film. It's a couple of years old but the legal landscape doesn't change anywhere near as rapidly as the technological landscape.

Then I'd buy and read this book

http://www.livingspirit.com/GFMMB1.htm

It's the best hands on guide to writing, directing and producing an independent feature I have ever come across. It's very thorough (it's from a UK point of view but all the practical aspects are very sound). The technological parts are also going to be a few years out of date - but 98% of it holds up in terms of what actually needs to happen in terms of making a film.

These two books are small investments - and while they won't really help you make your film (trust, nothing but actually going out and making stuff ever really helps you learn what you are ultimately in for) they will give you a fair indication of the mountain you actually have to climb if you want to make and release a truly independent feature film that actually attracts international sales.

What you want to do is hard. Prepare yourself as best you can.