I use Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8 to convert AVI files to WMV files for posting online. Every single conversion I've done, regardless of the show length or frame rate, inserts a series of black frames at regular intervals. If the frame rate is 30 fps, the black frames are inserted at 00:02:14 intervals. The position moves for other frame rates, but the glitch is always there. This creates a brief blink during the video that is very annoying. Has anyone else ever seen this problem? I can't seem to find mention of it if I google Sony Vegas bugs.

-Kyle

A stab in the dark here but are you connected to the net while rendering or is your anti-virus always running in the background?
Either of these two could be doing some kind of "checking" at regular intervals.
Disconnect/disable these and see if you still have the problem.

The fact that the blank frames occur at the exact same spot over and over again for dozens of videos would make that theory pretty unlikely, since the background task would have to hold things up at the exact same time every time. I'm pretty desperate though, so I'll try anything. Thanks!

Kyle, I don't have an answer to the problem (which sounds very much like a frame rate issue to me) but if you are desperate to get these files converted, can I suggest you try Windows Media Encoder until you get the problem sorted?

a) It has more control over the wmv encoding parameters than Vegas and b) it's free.

Out of interest, Kyle, are you rendering to exactly the same frame rate as the original material? And how many black frames are rendered every 2s14f? Same number every time? What is the interval at different frame rates?

I'll have to do some investigating on the exact details, but I do know that roughly the same number of frames are created at the same intervals for a given frame rate. If I change frame rates, the interval length changes to a new spot but still occurs. For 30 fps, less than a seconds worth of frames were deposited roughly every 2min 14sec. At 25fps the interval got longer but I don't have the exact time on that one.

Ah, I misread your original post - I thought it was every 2s 14 frames that the glitch occurs.

In the absence of any rapid response solutions I think you're gonna need to be exact in the timing (specifying mm:ss:ff) and the number of blank frames inserted for each frame rate. Also, what's the frame rate of the original footage?

Finally, did you try WME? Any success? Another alternative is you try to do the conversion using Windows Movie Maker. That would at least include/exclude Vegas as the culprit.

When I make the conversions with other programs I don't get the black frames, so it's only Vegas that is doing this. I could just use WME or other dedicated format converters, but it would be nice if this program that I just paid a bunch of money for actually WORKED for such a simple task.

Sorry Kyle, I mentioned the other programs because in an earlier post you said you were desperate and would try anything. I assumed you had some kind of deadline to meet.

I think you will find that Vegas does actually work for converting files from avi to wmv and this is kinda borne out by the fact that there aren't hundreds of others posting reports of that problem here. That suggests that you are doing something wrong, there is something wrong with your original footage, there is something wrong with the installation of Vegas, or there is something wrong with a plugin you may be using.

Can you please post the .veg file here so we can take a look at the settings?

Also, as I mentioned before, it would help if you can provide specific details of frame rates and the outcomes, the frame rate of the original footage, etc. "Less than a second's worth" and "roughly every 2m14s" is a bit vague. This detail will help someone sort your problem out.

Out of curiosity, are you JUST using Vegas for file conversion or are you doing any editing as well? Have you applied any plugins to the timeline? What are they? The more info you provide the more likely you'll get your answer.

This may be a silly question but. Is your vision HD, HDV and not MiniDV?

Is the filesystem of your computer FAT32 with its filesize limit?

Right now I'm just using Vegas for the file conversion, since the quality of the converted video is better than the other programs I have tried. If it weren't for the black frame issue it would be perfect.

I suspect the problem lies in the original footage. I can think of two variables: the frame rate and the codec used in the original. I like to use the Cinepak codec by Radius, which produces the best results. An avi made with Cinepak won't even load into WME though, whereas Vegas doesn't have a problem with it. I'm going to try another avi made with the Windows Video1 codec to see if the black frame problem occurs with that version.

I'll get the frame data too, I just haven't had the time until now. It takes a few hours for my computer to render out a three minute avi file to test with.

I tried an avi created with a different codec and it still had the same problem, so it's not a codec issue.

Here's the exact detail of the black frames:
Original AVI file: 00:03:35.18 long, 25fps
Start of black frames: 00:02:41.05
Number of black frames: 3

Both the original file and the converted WMV file were set to a frame rate of 25. Same video has no black frames when converted using Windows Media Encoder. The HD for the output files is NTFS format and not FAT32.

Thanks Kyle.

Couple of follow up questions:

1. Are you using a wmv preset in Vegas (if so, which one) or have you tweaked any parameters (if so what are the settings?).

2. In your earlier post you said 2.14 - has that changed or was that a typo?

3. This is originally SD video, right? Not HD?

To test whether it is just when rendering to wmv when this occurs, do you want to try a render to some other format. Just trying to eliminate possible causes.

The 00:02:14 time is when the frame rate is set to 30 fps. The exact time the frames occur on 30 fps is 00:02:14.08, and there are 8 black frames in a row on that on vs. the 3 I get for 25 fps.

The settings are tweaked, but I think I just took the default template and changed the framerate to 25 fps. The following settings were used for the video tab:

Mode: quality VBR
Format: windows media video 9
Image Size: DVD quality (640x480)
Pixel aspect ratio: 1
Frame rate: 25
seconds per keyframe: 3
Quality: 90%

The frame size in the original AVI file is 1280x884x16. The audio track is shorter than the video track, if that matters. Video runtime was 00:03:56.18 while audio runtime was 00:03:35:05 (44KHz, 16 bit stereo, uncompressed).

I tried converting to the MPEG-2 format and the black frames were still there in the exact same place, so it doesn't seem to be specific with the .WMV format.

BTW, if you want to see the converted .wmv videos, there are four of them posted on this webpage:

http://www.showsim.com/showsim/showsim3d.htm

I just discovered that the original AVI files have a series of bright red frames at the same spot where the black frames occur after the Vegas conversion. I never noticed this before because the red frames don't cause a visible flash on the screen like the black frames do when viewing the videos. Does Vegas show empty frames as red maybe? I don't see how there couldn't be a red flash visible when watching the original AVI. In the case of 25fps, there's 7 red frames in a row, which should definitely cause a brief red flash when watching the video. But I've watched the exact spot several times and nothing happens.

Vegas just converts the red to black, so the problem is really the red frames in the original footage. Although other converters still don't result in a visible glitch after conversion, so I think I'm just not understanding what is going on here.

The red frames are frames where Vegas can't read the correct information because there's a problem of some sort with the file.

I just realized that Vegas adds these blank frames on the timeline when the original AVI is loaded, so it is not something that occurs in the render process. When the AVI is dropped onto the timeline, a series of red frames appear right where the black frames appear in the converted versions. When the video is played in the preview screen, the screen flashes black instead of red at this point, just like it does in the converted versions. This flash does not appear when the original footage is viewed outside of vegas though.

If other programs can read these frames and produce a glitch-free conversion then it seems like the bug would still be with vegas not being able to read video data at these dead-spots.

There's an MPEG2 repair tool mentioned somewhere that might help with your files. That may fix them enough that Vegas can properly read them.

MPEG2Repair (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MPEG2Repair)

If I get this thread, he is rendering avi to wmv and getting the blank frames? As the thread progressed he seems to have discovered that the defect is something in the original footage (avi) that Vegas cannot read and thus the 'red' frames on the time line and the blank frames (black) in the rendered wmv.? First question, how willan MPEG2 repair program help this? I don't remember that he was ever in MPEG2. Question 2 what kind of avi file is the original?

I was kind of wondering the same thing, since the starting point is an AVI file and not MPEG. The input footage is AVI 2.0 created programatically using Microsofts DirectShow component of DirectX. It is essentially a series of screen grabs to create frame-by-frame animation of mathematically generated fireworks shows, with an audio stream as well. Every frame is created the exact same way, which is why it seems strange that Vegas would have problems reading just a few frames in the exact same spot every time. Other programs like Windows Media Encoder can read the file and convert it just fine without running into problems reading the same frames.

...The input footage is AVI 2.0 created programatically using Microsofts DirectShow component of DirectX. It is essentially a series of screen grabs...

That's a pretty essential piece of information. Umm... gee, that's not exactly a video stream for which you might expect Vegas to be tested by its developers???

Exactly what codec are you using inside the AVI wrapper? If this is a proprietary codec then there is no guarantee that Vegas (or any other NLE) will decode it properly.

Can you export out of whatever is creating this content as a tiff sequence? How about as an AVI using the Microsoft Video 1 codec - it's not bad for image-sequence-like content, and should be supported in DirectShow.

I've also dealt with this issue by doing an intermediate render as soon as I pull non-standard content in. The intermediate could be to AVI/NTSC-DV or AVI/Cineform, depending on whether it's SD or HD. Then pull in the intermediate render for editing and final work.

I've used the Microsoft Video1 codec as well as the Cinepak codec by Radius and Vegas still screws up both of them. If the original AVI plays fine and can be converted by other programs, it would seem to me that Vegas is the one with a problem.

...it would seem to me that Vegas is the one with a problem.

Kyle, while Vegas is often referred to as the "Swiss Army knife" of NLEs, it's imposssble for any NLE to do everything people expect of it.
I used a dpsVelocity in the past and, while it was a great NLE, there were formats it just would NOT handle and I had to use other tools to get the job done.
Vegas prefers DV-AVI so, as has been suggested here, convert your footage to that format.
Also, you said that your project is "essentially a series of screen grabs".
If that's the case, why not save the frame grabs as sequentially numbered files (PNG is best) and bring this into Vegas as a still sequence.
I do this with Lightwave and Maya files all the time and it works.

The program that generates the AVI files is a product I developed for simulating fireworks shows so that they can be visualized prior to shooting them. This program outputs an AVI file of the show animation, which a user most often uses to make a presentation DVD. My customers are generally non-video experts and probably just use Nero or whatever freebie software came with their computer or DVD burner when making these videos. I've never had any problem with glitches when making DVDs using the AVI output from the program. The only reason I'm making WMV files is to get the file size down so I can stream some demo videos from my website. I'm not a video expert either, but seem to be getting dragged into it over this one issue.

If I could just get Windows Media Encoder to convert AVI files made using the Cinepak codec then that would solve my problem also.

I think I'm just going to give up on Vegas and use Movavi to make these conversions. At least Movavi gets the job done without screwing it up and only costs a fraction of the price of Vegas.

Other programs like Windows Media Encoder can read the file and convert it just fine without running into problems reading the same frames.

Bit confused here - I thought you weren't able to use WME because of your desire to use the Cinepak codec.

I really wish you'd given all that info about how the source file was generated in the first place - that would have saved a lot of head scratching about frame rates and the like. Likewise knowing that there are red frames on the timeline is kind of useful to know!

Never heard of Movavi. It looks like one of countless inexpensive conversion apps that are on the market - but if that's all you want to do then Vegas is overkill for you anyway I guess.

I didn't know about the red frames until the point that I made the post. I'm learning this stuff as I go. Thanks for taking the time to respond to this though, I really appreciate everyone's responses. It doesn't seem there is a fix within Vegas though. The solution was just to use something else to convert formats. Movavi seems to work great. The only reason I bought Vegas was I planned on adding more elaborate introductions to the beginning of each video.

Convert it to a different format that Vegas can properly read! Then you can use it for adding the extra stuff you wanted.