Hi guys. Through reading all of the helpful comments you guys gave me, I have ordered a Schoeps cmc6 mk41 g, a sound devices mix pre and a Schoeps a20 shock mount. Now all I need to get up and rolling is a boom pole and some cable. (Digital recorder in a few months). Any suggestions? I just had a guy named Jasen at Trew Audio in Vancouver get pissed at me because I asked, very politely, what the professionals are using. He basically said I had a wierd attitude to purchasing gear and that I was an amateur. Whilst I readily agree that I am an amateur in regards to recording location audio, I could not believe his lack of professionalism. Anyway, I say that, because I am no closer to finding out what I should be looking at than I was before. I understand that a lot of it is personal preference, but as I live on the island, it is hard to get into Vancouver just to test out boom poles. Because I am using the Schoeps, I need a pole that will be good for indoor use. It should be maybe 8-12 feet long. Carbon Fiber. After that, I have no idea. Is there a model of boom pole that is a sort of industry-standard? I assume not, given just how angry the Trew guy got when I asked something of that ilk. Bottom line is: I cannot test before I buy in this instance. I can only go on the opinions of people more skilled than I...but I don't think that is a bad thing.

As for xlrs, I am wondering if there is an industry standard there too. Just anything that can give me top notch results if used well.

My price range is anywhere from $300, to $1000. I don't want to pay tons of money if I don't need to though.

Thanks to this board I can learn about the filmmaking process and ask questions without being verbally accosted for my lack of knowledge and experience. What a novel idea. I am so glad it exists.

One of the more popular brands among professionals is K-Tek, their model 152 is the length you're looking for. Another very well received brand is Loon and they too include a 12 foot model in their line. Lightwave has their "news pole" model that's 8 feet long and well suited for indoors use.

Booms are not something easily spec'ed and their choice tends to be highly personal. Most of the time intangibles like a companys reputation for customer service, quick repairs in the midst of a tight shooting schedule, etc, are as much of a deciding factor as any technical specs. There really is no such thing as an industry standard that's a clear-cut "choice of the pros." In a very real sense choosing a pole is like choosing the most comfortable pair of shoes to wear for your particular feet and style of working. Unlike selecting a mic, for instance, it's really not something you can choose by imitating "what the pros use" in a certain situation. It's more like selecting the best athletic shoe for a runner - there are a lot of differences in opinion and there's no clear distinction between the brands worn by the winners and those worn by the losers.

The length is detmined largely by the nature of the shoot. Newsgathering one's usually not so worried about the mic being visible in the frame but something that's manueverable indoors, perhaps in a crowd, becomes important. Documentaries are usually filmed in real locations rather than a tightly controlled set, but with some control over things that might interfere with the shot so more working distance is the norm, shots range from medium to cu, and a 12 or so footer works well. Features on a tightly controlled location and with longer subject to camera distances than found in a typical doco shoot would call for 16 to even 20 foot long poles.

I must say I am astounded at your experience at Trew in Vancouver. I've been in their Toronto shop many times, in fact am planning to drop in this afternoon if I have time, to price a pole as a matter of fact, and have never had anything but the most courteous and professional treatment from them. Had a chance to get to meet Glen Trew earlier this year, he was in town to meet with CBC yet took the time to chat and get acquainted.

Industry standard cables are Canare, Mogami, Belden. Connectors would be Neutrik or Switchcraft. A number of manufacturers such as Remote Audio make up their cables using, for instance, Canare cable and Neutrik connectors. Don't get fooled by claims from some "audiophile" vendors that exotic (read "expensive") cables are better - it's a crock of brown stuff aimed at people with more money than brains. Wire is wire and barring manufacturing defects, poor shielding, bad solder joints, or corrosion, the cable and connectors will have absolutely no effect on the sound whatsoever.

I don't think I'd go back to that shop in a hurry.

Working singlehanded a lot of the time I wanted something quick and easy to rig.
I went for a Lightwave folding carbon fibre pole with an internal cable. I'm sure that there are lots of other options but this works well.

I'm not an expert but that's my experience.

Well, I'm sorry to hear about you experience with Trew Audio as I know that the guys at both the Toronto store and Nashville locations are pretty awesome.

As for the little incident, I always find that there are some people with a sense of bitterness towards others with less experience. Of course, it's not limited to the sound or camera departments, but it occurs in other industries than film/video as well. What tends to happen is that new people in the field buy top of the line equipment and get jobs that some believe they shouldn't really be entitled to over perhaps someone with many years of experience. Kind of like, someone just out of college ending up being a department head when you've been trying to get that job working your butt off for 30 years.

Sound work can get very competitive so it is always an underlying issue isolated to a specific region (perhaps why the Interwebnet forums are so open). I believe when you asked what the pros used you may have rubbed the guy in the wrong way. You really have to be careful with what and how you ask questions from sound guys, because some of us can be pretty frickin' odd and stingy.

Although, I don't quite agree with that sort of attitude as mentioned, I have always been an advocate of getting hands-on experience on the equipment before you purchase. Just asking what the pros use, is not a very good rule to follow as you can potentially be blowing money on features that aren't really necessary.

I've just purchased a K-Tek 110CC (Internally wired) Avalon (aluminum) that I love and spec'd a K-Tec 110 Carbon Fibre at my former 9 - 5. I like these poles for MY application which is documentary video and not filmmaking. My audio guy likes the weight and the reach (even on the aluminum, the weight is quite manageable at 110") and I liked the cost effectiveness of the aluminum pole.

Again, everyone will have their own preference and budget. The K-Tek fit both of mine.

That's interesting that picking a pole is more akin to picking a pair of shoes. I didn't know that. I do always try to test before I buy...but given the fact that Vancouver Island is fairly, if not completely devoid of shops and rental houses for this type of gear, I don't have that luxury often.

I want a pole with extremely low handling noise, so a pole that is good at providing that would be preferable.

Regarding the Trew incident, it was very odd, as I have heard great things about them from people on this board and that definitely influenced my decision to call them. Whenever talking to "Professionals" I am always willing to listen to their advice, and usually appreciate their input. I also am not quick to disagree with them, because they are the ones that have the experience, and I let them know that, so it was very very out of the usual. Even if an employee has a beef with a customer, it should not over-ride their fundamental task; to make money for their employer. I guess they don't like to sell things at Trew, and the criterion for their selling something is based on how "Deserving" the client is. Haha. I can see how purchasing high quality gear when I currently have practically no experience in gathering location audio could make someone jealous, but honestly, why should anyone waste time with lower end gear if they can afford it? I find the attitudes of people like that to be strange. I guess they think that their lives are so much harder than everyone else's. There's just no dealing with some people I guess.

Sorry. Had to rant.

Give Trew another chance. They are nice folks. I'd suggest getting a pole that's at least 12 feet long. Heck. Get one that's 14 feet. Can't go wrong with K-Tek. I like internally cabled poles as well.

Yeah I'm really torn right now between two polls.

I can get the K-Tek 110 boompole for $216, but I'm comparing it against a lighter carbon fiber boompole from Gitzo (GB1540) that I can get for $199.

I'm not sure whether it's more important to have internally cabled boompoles, or a lighter carbon fiber boom. The weight difference isn't that significant and they both extend approx 9.1 feet.

I guess they're pretty comparable in quality either way.

Get a carbon fiber of course - lighter.
You will proberbly like them all. Which one is quieter? Which one would advertise that it's noisier??
You only get an opinion by trying so go for one and take a punt.
I would say most pro's would go carbon fiber and in U.K. Panamic is seen as the pole of choice. They don't do a super short pole though. there shortest closed is not so short. That might be an issue if you plan on hopping in and out of cars etc..
12 foot is long enough. Any longer and you might as well get a realy long 3 stage drama pole.
Get a pole that can be internally coiled but try it with the cable out side to start. Save the cash for other goodies.

The K-Tek Avalon is miles better than the Gitzo carbon fiber, which flexes way too much for me. I actually prefer the K-Tek aluminum better than the carbon fiber (in the 9 foot length anyway), because it's a little stiffer and the weight difference is negligible. I've used both a fair amount, and I wouldn't say that carbon fiber is much, if any quieter with respect to handling noise.

There's been some really great advice on this thread and it really reflects the breadth and depth of experience in this forum. Most of my work is verite doc stuff, so I like 8-9' internally-cabled carbon fiber boom poles, because they're light, quick to deploy and don't suck away all of your body heat when you're shooting in the cold. One potential downside of internal cables is that they can really rattle inside of the pole if your movements aren't smooth.

My current boom pole of choice is a medium PSC Elite--very smooth action and rigid but easy lockup. Definitely smoother and more rigid than my old K-Tek Avalon KE-100CC (K-Tek's "budget" carbon fiber pole) and probably comparable to the mainline K-102 unit. Another nice feature is that the bottom cap unscrews easily so that you can quickly straighten out or replace the internal cable if it becomes kinked or inoperable.

K-Tek's aluminum poles are just fine and very cost effective though. I've bought 15 internally-cabled ones for my university and they've stood up very well to student use and abuse other than a tendency for the cables to get kinked, which can prevent you from fully collapsing the pole.

Regarding XLR cables, just make sure that they're "Star-Quad" 4-conductor cables for less susceptibility to electrical and RF interference. Canare, Mogami and Belden are all fine, with Neutrik or Switchcraft connectors as mentioned by other posters. Any sound house can make you custom cables in your choice of length and colors if what you want isn't already hanging in their display. Since the original poster mentioned using a Sound Devices MixPre, don't forget to get an ENG breakaway cable as well. Having one makes for much easier coordination between the sound recordist and camera op and allows return monitoring from the camera's headphone jack. Keep in mind that many cameras' headphone jacks are pre-record, however.

Hope that helps,

Hoi

I had a similar experience with trew. Well, actually, the first guy i dealt with was awesome but then he left the company. After that I've felt like i'm at the guitar center. I guess they just get tired of answering the same questions over and over to noobs without money. Kinda like how Ty can get snarky with the daily "which $110 mic sounds better than a schoeps?" questions. hehe. I had started w/ the first guy building a relationship and planned on being loyal to the vendor, but after he left, i had to "start over" and in the end the "too busy for you peons" attitude of the other sales dudes drove me away from the speciality vendors entirely.

I guess I'm either expecting too much or not spending enough at one time. 3 years later I've bought over $10k in gear, but its been bits at a time. I'm sure if i waltzed in w/ 10k in my hand I'd be treated like a "pro". But in fairness, for every person like you or me that is serious about buying but uncertain about what, there is probably an army of those that bug the pro audio guys endlessly then end up ignoring all their advise and shopping elsewhere anyways.

So about your question, I bought the ktek 10' internally wired aluminum avalon. And, its "ok". The glue at each joint is lumpy and unsightly, and for one joint caused a "catch" when the pole was closed until i took a file to it. (pretty!). They were sold out of the side exit model so i bought a rear exit, thinking i could swap it out later... but the xlr on the pole is glued on. Having the internal wiring is cool, but the xlr dangling from the top takes a bit of care during transport and you absolutely need both hands and a leg or two to extend the pole fully, due to the internal coiled cable wanting to spring the pole shut again.

If I had to do it over, i'd absolutely get side exit (everybody that uses the pole tries setting it down on the ground on the xlr connector) and I'd put the money i spent on the internal cabling into a longer, lighter, probably carbon fibre pole.

Of course, until i have a longer CF pole w/o cables i cant *really* say if i'd like it better. I might find other things bug me more and make me prefer the aluminum rear exit 10' avalon.

Hmm. I could always call up Trew Audio and ask them which boom pole i would prefer. hehe.

-a

The weight difference on the K-Tek Avalon 110 versus the 110 Carbon fibre is 100g (about 1/4 pound). To me, that's nothing. As well, I PERSONALLY would never go with a pole that wasn't internally cabled. Too much cable management for my liking (but I am a bit of a klutz...)

Seeing as how no one else has mentioned them, don't overlook Loon Audio, http://www.loonaudio.com/.
Their basemate looks like a very simple and good piece of engineering and their custom light weight cables and smaller 90deg XLRs are also attractive.
Probably worth a mention that the kind of cable that runs into a mic on a shock mount is important. The cable can conduct mechanical noise and vibration into the mic bypassing the shock mount. We have some quite old XLR cables made with a fabric covered cable that is very flexible. They may have come as part of a Rycote kit from way back. The thin cable that Loon are using also felt very flexible when I had a look at their kit at NAB.

Bob, those are nice looking poles.

Bob, those are nice looking poles.

A local mixer bought one recently, I really like it. If I ever have a need for another pole, the Loons are on my short list of poles to look at.

Wayne

Planning on getting a 12 foot Loon (Dat's one big honker of a boid!) this week if something else doesn't break on the car - unexpectedly needed a new muffler yesterday :( I'll post a review when able.

I use a ambient 4140, I prefer to have a longer pole (16 footish) because I find I need that extra reach. You can always make the pole shorter but not longer. So for your 1st pole go longer, then get a shorty later.

So I am looking at getting a K-Tek KE110CCR. I would get a carbon fiber model, but budgetary reasons prevent it. Are any other peripherals I should get besides cables? I was told they make adapters you plug into mixers so that you connect cables to the adaptor instead of the mixer, thereby preventing wear on the mixer, but I don't know what they are called. Also, a guy I talked with mentioned I purchase I sort of short, cloth jacketed xlr cable that connects to the mic, and then has the normal xlr cable attach to it. Supposed to lessen handling noise or something.

This?

http://www.ktekbooms.com/products.php?id=53

Adds seven inches and doubles as a handgrip. Personally, I've never needed a handgrip, so I'm a little dubious about that. Just seems like extra weight to me, but I've never used (or seen) one, so take that for whatever it's worth. I think the idea of the second section of cable is to prevent any vibration noise coming from downstream on the cable. Never felt that it was needed (and I have that same pole you're looking at, except for the side adress), but who knows what I've been missing. Anybody ever use one of these things? Biggest handling noise issues I deal with are at the shockmount. I've actually banged that pole (aluminum and all) on the inside of a doorway and had the editor not even notice. I did, but still pretty impressive for a budget pole like that.

That wasn't it, no. Hmm. Thanks for trying to find it though. I know my description was vague.

Anyone heard of Digiflex cable? That is what they sell at Lorne Lapham in Vancouver, the place I am thinking of getting my boom from.

Hi Spencer,

I really wouldn't worry too much about connector wear & tear on your MixPre. I've had one for 5 years and it's built like a tank. You can always provide strain relief by hooking a carabiner or velcro loop to your mixer bag and suspending any excess cable through that. Having said that, I generally use a 7' coiled jumper cable from my boompole to my mixer--less chance of getting tangled up in dangling cable. Here's one from Remote Audio, but plenty of other companies make them as well:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/287247-REG/Remote_Audio_CAXJCOIL_CAXJCOIL_Coiled_XLR_Jumper.html

Again, I definitely recommend an ENG breakaway cable for the mixer to camera connection for the reasons mentioned in my previous post on this thread. Remote Audio, PSC and Canare all make good ones that run about $200-$225 US.

Yrs,

Hoi

What exactly is an eng breakaway cable?

So I should get a coiled jumper cable, a longer xlr to attach to that and the mixer, then an eng breakaway cable to run from the mixer to the cam?

You need the breakaway cable most of all.

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=109&cat=13&page=1

Don't skimp either. Get the 25' extension too:

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=103&cat=13&page=1

Worth every penny. I promise you.

Hi Spencer,

Marco's definitely pointed you to the right breakaway cable for your MixPre. If you look at the photo, the end with 3 connectors goes into your mixer--1 XLR left channel out, 1 XLR right channel out, 3.5mm stereo male mini plug to the tape return jack. The 4 connector end goes to your camera--1 XLR L, 1 XLR R, 3.5mm stereo-M plug to the headphone jack to send a return signal to the mixer and the 3.5mm stereo-F jack so that the camera op can still monitor audio as well. About 3' from the camera end there's a quick-release connector (visible at the bottom of the photo) that allows the camera op to quickly disconnect so that he/she can change camera positions, etc. with minimum fuss. Much easier than running 2 separate XLRs and an unshielded headphone cable! Plus as Marco points out, it's really easy to add extensions if needed.

Caveats about using the camera headphone jack for confidence monitoring:

A) Make sure that the headphone jack volume is actually turned up enough to send a return signal--some shooters I've worked with get lazy about audio monitoring when working with an sound recordist and actually leave the headphone volume all the way down unless reminded otherwise.

B) On many cameras, the headphone jack is pre-record, which means you at least know that the audio signal is reaching the camera, but it still doesn't tell you what the final recorded audio sounds like.

As for how everything hooks up, here's what I usually do when I'm booming and mixing:

Short shotgun mic-->boompole w/internal XLR cable-->coiled 7' jumper cable-->mixer-->breakaway cable-->camera

No need for anything between the boom pole and the mixer in this scenario but the coiled XLR jumper....

Yrs,

Hoi

I have been told that internally cabled booms, especially when made of aluminum, can have more handling noise, so I may get one that is externally cabled. What is the sound-chain like for an externally cabled boom? Mic>coiled jumper>mixer?

It's possible to get a rattle if you handle the pole roughly, but in practice it's a non-issue. I've never had a blown take over it. Some people prefer externally cabled poles, but they can be way more difficult to manage. Depends on your style I guess.

Marco, I ordered those cables from Trew...to avoid having to look elsewhere. Thanks for saving me time. I ordered a K-Tek KE 110 and a twenty five foot XLR from Lorne Lapham. Thanks guys. I wouldn't have made a purchase this quickly without your advice. I would be flying blind without this forum, given my lack of technical gusto. Haha.

I've had an interesting relationship with boom poles. Built my own painters pole boom.... relativelycheap, but subject to handling noise greater than whatI expected. used a non internally wired Gitzo carbon fibre... love at first sight. Bought a Gitzo internally wired aluminum pole on E-bay relatively cheaply.....discovered that: a) aluminum poles are not as bad as my painters pole experience might have suggested. b) Gitzo makes a quality pole it seems. c) internally wired poles are more convenient and frankly the allegations of increased noise from internally wired poles are not being born out on my use. Not sure if this helps, hope so.

Hey guys, I've just purchased (well offered to purchase, let's hope the seller hasnt sold yet) a used K-tek 110CCR. I was in debate between this and the Rode boompole and felt the price difference between the new Rode Boompole and the price I Was getting the K-tek for was not large enough to justify getting the "better" K-tek.

The seller was the same person who I bought my XH-A1 from last week. Prior to owning this XH-A1, I had been using a Sony HC1 for a couple of years. Now, I'm looking forward to getting more serious about video production.

I plan to mainly recording stand-up comedy around the DC area but also would like to get started on some short film projects. I hope the boom pole will be a good addition to what I personally have (the two cameras mentioned, a Sony MZ-RH1 Hi-MD Minidisc recorder, and an AT-822) plus what others who work with me will have.

A lot of posts in here in regards to the K-tek caught my eye:

I've just purchased a K-Tek 110CC (Internally wired) Avalon (aluminum) that I love and spec'd a K-Tec 110 Carbon Fibre at my former 9 - 5. I like these poles for MY application which is documentary video and not filmmaking. My audio guy likes the weight and the reach (even on the aluminum, the weight is quite manageable at 110") and I liked the cost effectiveness of the aluminum pole.

Again, everyone will have their own preference and budget. The K-Tek fit both of mine.

Glad to hear this. The first project I'm planning on working on will be mockumentary so hopefully the K-tek will work well for me too.



...
So about your question, I bought the ktek 10' internally wired aluminum avalon. And, its "ok". The glue at each joint is lumpy and unsightly, and for one joint caused a "catch" when the pole was closed until i took a file to it. (pretty!). They were sold out of the side exit model so i bought a rear exit, thinking i could swap it out later... but the xlr on the pole is glued on. Having the internal wiring is cool, but the xlr dangling from the top takes a bit of care during transport and you absolutely need both hands and a leg or two to extend the pole fully, due to the internal coiled cable wanting to spring the pole shut again.

If I had to do it over, i'd absolutely get side exit (everybody that uses the pole tries setting it down on the ground on the xlr connector) and I'd put the money i spent on the internal cabling into a longer, lighter, probably carbon fibre pole.
...

Bummed to hear the negatives on the Aluminum K-tek from you. Well, at least I got the side exit part down with my CCR purchase.

The weight difference on the K-Tek Avalon 110 versus the 110 Carbon fibre is 100g (about 1/4 pound). To me, that's nothing. As well, I PERSONALLY would never go with a pole that wasn't internally cabled. Too much cable management for my liking (but I am a bit of a klutz...)

Good to hear that the weight difference is not too bad in your eyes. The price of a new carbon fiber vs. the price of the used Ktek Aluminum 110CCR was pretty high so the carbon fiber was really no option for me.

...

K-Tek's aluminum poles are just fine and very cost effective though. I've bought 15 internally-cabled ones for my university and they've stood up very well to student use and abuse other than a tendency for the cables to get kinked, which can prevent you from fully collapsing the pole.

Yikes, I'll have to look out for this.

...
Regarding XLR cables, just make sure that they're "Star-Quad" 4-conductor cables for less susceptibility to electrical and RF interference. Canare, Mogami and Belden are all fine, with Neutrik or Switchcraft connectors as mentioned by other posters. Any sound house can make you custom cables in your choice of length and colors if what you want isn't already hanging in their display. ...

This is where I wonder what else I will need. There's a lot of discussion on ENG breakaway cables. I don't have a mixer right now - prob can't make that purchase and everything that goes with it for a while. I was just planning on recording with the boom pole either to my MZ-RH1 Hi-MD or to my XH-A1 (hmm.. could I even use my laptop? A 15" 2.2 ghz MacBook Pro?). So what exactly should I get in terms of size and quantity for this (1 cable? 2 cables?)

Sorry for the newbie questions. Like I said, I'm pretty new to this so any advice would be appreciated.

Shahryar: Glad my comments were of use to you. I still love my K-Tek although I'm starting to see my Cavision shockmount coming apart at the rubber "welded" seam after only a few months of light use. We ABUSED the Rycote all-in-one version at my former 9 - 5 and to the best of my knowledge it still looks like new. Sorry for the hijack...

Shahryar: Glad my comments were of use to you. I still love my K-Tek although I'm starting to see my Cavision shockmount coming apart at the rubber "welded" seam after only a few months of light use. We ABUSED the Rycote all-in-one version at my former 9 - 5 and to the best of my knowledge it still looks like new. Sorry for the hijack...

No problem. I do need to get a shockmount for my mic to use with my boompole. So.. avoid the cavision? I was leaning towards something from Rode.

Rycote | Large Hole Softie Mount & Pistol Grip | 033703 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/263722-REG/Rycote_033703_Large_Hole_Softie_Mount.html)

This, in the right size, will be my next mount. Same one I spec'd for the former 9 - 5. Inexpensive, it works well enough for my needs and simple. I HATE the cris-crossing elastic band mounts, but that's MY issue...

Rycote | Large Hole Softie Mount & Pistol Grip | 033703 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/263722-REG/Rycote_033703_Large_Hole_Softie_Mount.html)

This, in the right size, will be my next mount. Same one I spec'd for the former 9 - 5. Inexpensive, it works well enough for my needs and simple. I HATE the cris-crossing elastic band mounts, but that's MY issue...

ah, ok. So you'd recommend this for me? - to use with my AT-822 and K-tek 110CCR?

$119 is a bit higher than what I would like to spend. I had been discussing that AT822 specifically in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/121074-general-purpose-stereo-mic-a1.html#post935680 and the Rode SM4 was recommended. After seeing the price of $50, I got my hopes up on buying something at that price level.

But if I was to venture out to the $100+ level, How would your suggested Rycote compare to the K-tek GPS? K-Tek | K-GPS - Universal Microphone Suspension Mount | K-GPS (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/292933-REG/K_Tek_K_GPS_K_GPS_Universal_Microphone.html). I Ask about this particular model because the person I just offered to buy the used K-tek 100CCR from (and who I already bought my used Xh-a1 from - it arrived last week) is also selling this shock mount. I'm wondering if perhaps if I could work out a deal with him to include this shockmount with the K-tek boompole - but I wanted to make sure I definitely wanted to spend this amount - of course, I would love to spend less (w/ the SM4 that is). Even spending the $190 I'm planning to spend on the used K-tek 110 CCR required a bit of thought on my end but I figure it's worth it to spend an extra $40 for what seems to be the better boom pole.

Try this invision 7 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&shs=invision+7&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fproduct.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=submit) for shockmount and it will beat the others. But no windjammer for this one.

T

My used K-Tek | KE-110CCR Avalon Series Aluminum Boompole | KE-110CCR (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/406098-REG/K_Tek_KE_110CCR_KE_110CCR_Avalon_Series_Aluminum.html) arrived today and seems to be in good shape. Hopefully i'll get to use it real soon - I still need to get a mic to use with the boom pole, a mount, and a windjammer thought. I've noted Toenis's advice for the invision 7 & Shaun's advice for the Rycote. When Toenis brought up the windjammer, I shot him an e-mail asking a bit more on it, and he gave me a nice, helpful response. I thought I'd post it here for other people to reference:


Hello,

The windjammer is that furry thing you see around the mics.
Basically there are two components in a mic mount the suspension mount
that the invision / is and a full wind protection often referred to as
Zeppelin, Blimp or a Windjammer. The cheapest viable full solution is th
Rycote S-Series full system but that is around $350 but the Invision has
the same schockmount as the S-System. SO basically you could purchase the
Invision 7 and make that furry thing around by your self. This is the
highest end system DPA WindPac (http://www.trewaudio.com/dpa_windpac_esale.htm) and this
by far is the easiest to make
rcrds DIY MS-stereo microphone blimp (http://www.mediumrecords.com/random/diy-ms-stereo-microphone-blimp/) just
check from the middle of the page how to make the windjammer part, the
cage and the furry thing. And remember the suspension like the invision is
the most important part then just make sure the furry part is not touching
the mic inside it and there you go. Imagine the Invision 7 to be that
shockmount on this picture
http://www.scotthandelvideo.com/Graphics/rycote_kit-4.jpg you just have to
come up with the cage and the furry cloth around it.

I hope this helps,
T

_______________________________________

This is a message from Shahryar Rizvi at The Digital Video Information
Network ( http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/ ). The The Digital Video Information
Network owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the
email.

This is the message:

Hey Toenis,

You lent me a hand in the DV forum suggesting the invision 7. At the
price of $69, that definitely sounds good (as I mentioned in the forum,
I'd rather spend close to $50 than $150). But you said it had no
windjammer. I'm really new to all this so I didnt want to ask a stupid
question, but would you mind telling me what a windjammer is?




I myself am really not a DIY guy so I'm a little scared to try my own like Toenis suggested, but let me look at it some more and decide.

For using my stereo mic (AT-822) with my camera (XH-A1), I'm planning on getting an SM4.

My used K-Tek | KE-110CCR Avalon Series Aluminum Boompole | KE-110CCR (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/406098-REG/K_Tek_KE_110CCR_KE_110CCR_Avalon_Series_Aluminum.html) arrived today and seems to be in good shape. Hopefully i'll get to use it real soon - I still need to get a mic to use with the boom pole, a mount, and a windjammer thought. I've noted Toenis's advice for the invision 7 & Shaun's advice for the Rycote. When Toenis brought up the windjammer, ...

I myself am really not a DIY guy so I'm a little scared to try my own like Toenis suggested, but let me look at it some more and decide.

For using my stereo mic (AT-822) with my camera (XH-A1), I'm planning on getting an SM4.

Rycote's S-Series Windjammers incorporate the Invision lyre mounting system and are quite a bit less expensive than the full kit.

I still need to get a mic to use with the boom pole, a mount, and a windjammer thought. I've noted Toenis's advice for the invision 7 & Shaun's advice for the Rycote.

Shahryar, Did you buy the shockmount, windjammer etc?


I was planning to buy some sort of stand along with a boom pole. What is a C stand and how is it different from other stands? and what is a grip head and is it required to put a boom pole on a stand? And any suggestions? I am planning for dramatic short films (not professional work, but still want to achieve some quality). I don't have the luxury of boom boys and like, so I'll have to write scenes where the dialogue happens relatively in a fixed location and I can use a stand+boom to capture dialogue. Does that even make sense? I still haven't bought any equipment and was planning to buy during thanksgiving. Does anyone offer deals on professional equipment at all?

...

I was planning to buy some sort of stand along with a boom pole. What is a C stand and how is it different from other stands? and what is a grip head and is it required to put a boom pole on a stand? ...Does anyone offer deals on professional equipment at all?

Here's an interesting video clip on C-stands, grip heads, and how to use them. PixelCorps.tv (http://www.pixelcorps.tv/the_grip_guide_06) To fly a mic over the set, you add a holder like a fishing rod holder you'd use on a fishing boat ... Remote Audio: Boom Boy (http://remoteaudio.com/boomboy/) ... clamped in the grip head to hold the mic boom.

Like this: General Brand | Boom Pole Holder | REMBOMAST | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/277230-REG/General_Brand_REMBOMAST_Boom_Pole_Holder.html)

You can get the same thing at a sporting goods store that sells fishing gear for probably 10 bucks or so. Only difference is that the base is like a big screw instead of a rod, but it works equally well. If you don't have an extra C-stand, you can use a grip head on a light stand, but it's harder to sandbag a light stand.

Thanks Steve for the video, it gave me some idea. Thanks Bill, I presume the Boom will just rest in that holder because of its weight and not slide down.

I am looking for suggestions to get all the items (new) below for $500 or less.

1. C-stand with grip head and arm
2. Boom Pole with xlr
3. shock mount
4. Zeppelin+deadcat
5. Boompole holder
6. mic shoe mount

BTW, I am planning to go for AT4053 hypercardioid as my only mic for now, put it on a boom pole and c-stand. Later, I'll add shotgun, lav and mixer to my kit, but right now with $500 on the mic gone, I want to get all the accesories under $500. Any thoughts?

Rode just came out with a Shock mount / Zeppelin / dead wombat .. a lot less than the Rycote system. Check Trew Audio for a review.
www.trewaudio.com/products/rode/blimp/ (http://www.trewaudio.com/products/rode/blimp/)

Going to need to add a bit to that budget. C-Stand with grip head and arm will run you about $250 or so, boom holder $25, the Rode Blimp system $300 and you're already over $500 before even looking at a pole. Add another $250 or so for a bargain boom.

Thanks Rick and Steve.


AT4053 is a pretty small mic (6.1") and I am not sure if it will be too small for the zeppelin. I asked RODE support and got a prompt reply that it should be okay, although not certain. It says that the RODE blimp is a handheld one with a thread for boom mount. I am wondering if I can directly mount it on a camera or would I need a shoe adaptor?

OK, this is what it looks so far(for all new, inclusive of shipping):
RODE blimp - $303
Matthews 40" C-stand with Grip head and arm - $172
K-tek 110CCR with internal cabled XLR from side** - $240
Boompole holder - $35

This makes it exactly $750!

** Any comments on benefits of side vs bottom XLR on boom poles?

You wouldn't need to put the AT4053 in a Zeppelin unless you were shooting outdoors, in which case it's not the ideal mic for that. Indoors, foam windscreen is fine.

Thanks Marco.

1. So do you think that the default "open cell foam windscreen" that comes with AT4053 is good enough for indoors or do I need a more sophisticated foam cover?

2. Also, is a hypercardioid pretty bad for outdoors? I thought I could pretty much use it both indoor and outdoor. I am assuming that Shotgun is the way to go, right? Would a 4073a produce much better sound outdoors compared to 4053a? I am a bit hesitant as that is another $550. So basically what I am asking is, (a) If I were to buy only one of them and use it both indoors and outdoors, which would you choose and (b) If I were to buy both, would the quality difference between the two be significant to justify the purchase?

3. Can someone please answer my earlier question - what are the benefits of XLR cable coming out of the side and coming out at the bottom of a boom pole

You generally want a shotgun outdoors because of noise. Some people claim to get quite good results with a hypercardiod outdoors though. If this is to be one of those "which mic for everything" questions, I won't claim to know. For me, hypercardiod (or cardiod) indoors and shotgun outdoors is the mantra. Since most of the time we shoot indoors, I'd say that we use hypercardiods far more than shotguns if that helps. I think you definitely want a hypercardiod that's at least as good as the AT4053. If money was tight, I'd spend at least that much, and then add a budget shotgun like the AT897. And yes, the stock foam on the AT4053 should be fine indoors, but outdoors, you'll want a full on Zepplin. Rycote softie or the like probably won't cut it with the AT4053. Softie will be fine for the 897 though, so you could end up saving money with two mics instead of one.

As far as the question about the benefits of the cable coming from the side (this is called side address, by the way), it's so that you can rest the bottom of the pole on the ground. Do that with a cable that exits straight of the bottom and you'll ruin the cable, which is inevitable with an inexperienced boom-op. They ALWAYS forget and plop the boom on the ground, or dirt, or dog poo, or whatever. You can see this is a touchy subject with me.

Thanks Marco.
...
2. Also, is a hypercardioid pretty bad for outdoors? I thought I could pretty much use it both indoor and outdoor. I am assuming that Shotgun is the way to go, right? Would a 4073a produce much better sound outdoors compared to 4053a? I am a bit hesitant as that is another $550. So basically what I am asking is, (a) If I were to buy only one of them and use it both indoors and outdoors, which would you choose and (b) If I were to buy both, would the quality difference between the two be significant to justify the purchase?

3...

There's no reason you *have* to use a shotgun outdoors and hypers will work just fine in many scenarios. As discussed, it's the issue of room reflections that make a shotgun sound bad with interiors but that doesn't work in reverse, with something acoustical making hypers sound bad outdoors, and a lot of exterior closeups in features have been done with hypers. That being said, shotguns are often desired outdoors because of the nature of the shots themselves. Many exteriors are wide shots, requiring the mic to be a bit farther away from the talent to stay out of frame and a shotgun does allow you a greater mic to talent working distance than does a hyper. Since you don't have to worry so much about problems with reflections outdoors, choosing a shotgun lets you boom a bit farther away and still get the directivity to reduce pickup of environmental distractions. In many cases, both mic types might be used. According to Schoeps, one of the design objectives with their CMIT shotgun was to give it the same sonic qualities as their CMC641 hyper so that you could use the 'gun for the wider establishing and two-shots, switch to the hyper for closer micing the closeups, and intercut the two freely without fear of changes in the sound timbre at the cuts.

Shahryar, Did you buy the shockmount, windjammer etc?


I was planning to buy some sort of stand along with a boom pole. What is a C stand and how is it different from other stands? and what is a grip head and is it required to put a boom pole on a stand? And any suggestions? I am planning for dramatic short films (not professional work, but still want to achieve some quality). I don't have the luxury of boom boys and like, so I'll have to write scenes where the dialogue happens relatively in a fixed location and I can use a stand+boom to capture dialogue. Does that even make sense? I still haven't bought any equipment and was planning to buy during thanksgiving. Does anyone offer deals on professional equipment at all?

Srinivas,

I hadn't gotten anything else yet. Actually, my house caught on fire in mid October and all my equipment got damaged (fortunately, no one was hurt though). So right now, I'm sort of starting from scratch and not planning on getting into video again for a little bit.

I had shot Steve House an email actually and he sent me a nice reply. I hope he doesn't mind me posting it here (steve, I'm sorry I had not had a chance to reply, but thank you for taking the time for this e-mail):


Hiya

The Rycote Invision shockmount uses a mic clip and suspension that looks
sort of like a lyre, hence the name.
Rycote - InVision Suspension (http://www.rycote.com/products/invision/)

They offer have two different windshield kits - a budget S-series kit that
includes a furry windshield and suspension/shockmount -
Rycote - S-series Suspension & Windshield System (http://www.rycote.com/products/s_series/) - and the full zeppelin kit -
Rycote - Full Windshield System (http://www.rycote.com/products/full_windshield_system/). If you get one of
the kits you don't need the Invision because both of them include the same
lyre mounting system. Strictly speaking, a "windjammer" is the furry
overcoat that's pulled over the zeppelin when the wind really kicks up. The
S-series kit integrates the furry and windshield as one piece while in the
full windshield kit they remain separate so you can use the system with or
without the fur as the situation requires. The downside of the full kit is
that it's almost double the cost of the S-series kit.

Indoors you would probably only need the Invision plus the foam windscreen
that comes with the mic (even indoors you'll need a little protection
because just moving the mic through the air is "wind"). Outdoors you'll
likely need more wind protection so one of the windshield kits might be in
order for you.

Remember the NTG-2 has a mono XLR output and your HiMD recorder has a stereo
1/8" mic input (that has 5v mic power on it as well.) You'll need a
properly wired XLR to 1/8 adapter cable with blocking capacitor like this
one - Trew Audio - Cables, Connectors & Adapters - DV Cam Cables - DV Cam Mono Input Cable (http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=146&cat=21&page=1)
- at the very least and I'd strongly suggest something like a Juicedlink
adapter to give you control over levels and panning if you're not ready to
spring for a full-blown mixer like the SD MixPre.

Hope this helps

Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: Shahryar Rizvi @ The Digital Video Information Network
[mailto:cha_cha_mia@yahoo.com]
Sent: October 3, 2008 12:12
To: sjhouse@cogeco.ca
Subject: Question on the Rycote Windjammer you mentioned

This is a message from Shahryar Rizvi at The Digital Video Information
Network ( http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/ ). The The Digital Video Information
Network owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the
email.

To email Shahryar Rizvi, you can use this online form:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=41674

OR, by email:
mailto:cha_cha_mia@yahoo.com

This is the message:

Hey Steve,

I didn't know if this was too stupid a question so I wanted to shoot you an
e-mail rather than responding on the forum. I hope you don't mind.

Over on this post,
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/all-things-audio/125654-boom-pole-xlr-cable-sugge
stions-3.html#post945919 , you had said "Rycote's S-Series Windjammers
incorporate the Invision lyre mounting system and are quite a bit less
expensive than the full kit." Could you tell me a little more about this?
My used K-tek ke110CCR boompole arrived this week and I'm planning on
getting a NTG-2 mic to use with this boom pole. But what are the missing
components that I need? I'm planning on recording to my
Sony MZ-RH1 Minidisc Hi-MD.

For my camera, the Canon XH-A1, I bought an AT-822 stereo mic a couple weeks
ago, and today purchased the Rode SM4 mount as well as the camera shoe
adapter.


Also, for anyone else considering a K-tek boompole. I actually sent my smoke damaged K-tek boom pole into K-tek after the fire and not only did they offer to clean it for free before I sent it in, they actually ended up replacing it with a new one because of all the damage. I'm very impressed with their customer service.