I am a full time photographer and doing quite well. I have an extensive business background so the business part was easy, and my good day job provided the income to purchase my equipment with out loans until I went full time. I have started adding video for a few reasons, the first I LOVE it, and am inspired by many of you. I have always been a tech type of person and love the audio/video combination. I also feel it adds some security to what I do, lets face it with the cheap digital SLR's many MANY people try and jump into the wedding photography business for less than $1000.00, Video is not so easy to jump into and after the first edit attempt. many get right back out.

Right now I offer a combination of video / photography for my highest package. It is clear that the video they get is straight edit with professional audio. I do use 2 cameras (XH-A1's) but for my own footage and practice. I have to say this has a HUGE learning curve but a challenge and will eliminate many wan a be video people. The only person in this area offering video shoots with ONE sony handicam and his final product is un edited and quality is poor.

I am curious to how many are able to do video full time.

For 25 years, but I was a still photog for 12 years before that. Always a freelancer who has worked very hard over the years to maintain my independence. I do not work or play well with bosses and being an independent contractor I get to talk to the 'boss' everyday. A nice conversation in the mirror before starting my work day just so the 'boss' knows who's the 'boss ;-)
Some years better than others but it all averages out in the wash so o speak.

Don

I am full time. Actually my first "job" is a stay-at-home mom, then I do this full time on the side!? I jumped into this in 2005 and although its scary sometimes, it has worked out great... even better than I had hoped! Now you are talking about something completely different I think. Offering both services full time is going to be tricky, but I don't see it impossible. I know a lot of people around here ask if I do both in our initial meeting. If you can find a way to give them the amazing photos as well as a excellent video, cheers to you! The few people I have seen offer both, always lets the video slide in at 2nd rate (at best). G/L!

I do it full time both photo and video. I started with photography doing weddings since 93 and got into video 4 years ago. At first, I only offered video with photography, now I offer it separately as well. I have two associates who work for me regularly (one video, one still) and a few others on reserve.

To Dawn's comment, "If you can find a way to give them the amazing photos as well as a excellent video, cheers to you! The few people I have seen offer both, always lets the video slide in at 2nd rate (at best)." You're right - I don't think one person can do a good job alone. I know I couldn't. The way we work is I bring dedicated shooters of each, I flip back-and-forth between photo/video and act as an overall director. It seems to work pretty well but, I have to give my crew a lot of the credit as they are very talented and we work well as a team.
--JL

By no means did I mean I do it myself, We are a husband and wife team, both have our strengths and weakness. The great thing is I am very good with the tech stuff, my wife very creative. Because I have been doing photography so long, it has become possible to add video. I use 3 people when doing both, and have found a workflow that works.

I was asking who does video full time, not necessarily doing both.
I am offering video only now, and love the change of pace sometimes, not that one is easier than the other, just that its different.

I love providing for myself, wife and 4 children and like said above, being my own boss, although I work much harder now than I ever did working for someone else.

I feel video will have its place for a long time to come, and I hope for it to be a part of my business as well.

The way we work is I bring dedicated shooters of each, I flip back-and-forth between photo/video and act as an overall director. It seems to work pretty well but, I have to give my crew a lot of the credit as they are very talented and we work well as a team.
--JL

This is exactly what I do, if the settings are set on cams, and its the pull back shot, an assistant can manage that. I do the formals (photography) and can manage a video camera and still camera for most of the receptions as long as I have another person running each a still and a video camera. This seems to work well and as long as I dont ask anyone but me to do both seem to be working out well.

I do video full time as well and my wife does the photo's. We always work alone and on a rare occasion with a second videographer but that doesn't happen much. I find working alone as a videographer often stressfull but very rewarding every time I manage to pull it off again. :)
I have a photog backgroundand my feeling is that this has helped me a lot when doing video. Not from technical point of view but from creative point of view. Working alone also requires you to be much more versatile and on your toes but it keeps me from falling asleep in front of my tv. For me every shot counts so I just have to be more creative then others who have the luxury of working with 2 or 3.
You might ask yourself why I don't work with another videographer, Belgium is a very though market for weddings and working with 2 or 3 will require raising my prizes considerably which will result in a lot less bookings, that's why i also do eventvideo and some other video- but not wedding related stuff. You have a lot of wannabees here with full time other jobs who are not registered and charging low prizes, they have a camera and think they can film. Last week I was with a another photog who was in the business for years and she never saw other videographers attach wireless mics like I do on the groom. That says enough I think.

I am a full time photographer and doing quite well. I have an extensive business background so the business part was easy, and my good day job provided the income to purchase my equipment with out loans until I went full time. I have started adding video for a few reasons, the first I LOVE it...

...I have to say this has a HUGE learning curve but a challenge and will eliminate many wan a be video people. The only person in this area offering video shoots with ONE sony handicam and his final product is un edited and quality is poor.

I am curious to how many are able to do video full time.

Hi Denny,

Because of your photography background, both in business and the foundational basics, you have a very good head start.

The love of video is a common reason that many start producing wedding videos. It is a wonderful medium and offers several advantages over photography to the client, that is when done well.

The biggest challenge is making enough money in video to do it full time. Many simply do not charge enough to make a living with video. That's the sad part because I know many who do wonderful work, but back away from it because they don't make enough money in video.

My wife and I are in video full time with no additional outside income. I'm not knocking anyone who has a spouse that adds to the monthly income or adds insurance benefits, but the rubber really hits the road when you both do video full time.

Many simply do not charge enough to make a living with video.
Here I could say; many clients don't want to pay enough for the work that we put in it which is actually the same but a result for the too low prizes we have to charge just to get a booking.
If I count all the hours I invest in video and compare that to everyone involved with weddings like the DJ, the limodriver etc I am actually the worst paid of all. You really have to love video to keep doing this. :)

Here I could say; many clients don't want to pay enough for the work that we put in it which is actually the same but a result for the too low prizes we have to charge just to get a booking.
If I count all the hours I invest in video and compare that to everyone involved with weddings like the DJ, the limodriver etc I am actually the worst paid of all. You really have to love video to keep doing this. :)

Hi Noa,

You bring up a very valid point. I don't know how much things cost in your country, but when you are shooting a wedding with a photographer that is similar in quality as you, are you getting paid the same as the photographer, or does the photographer make more than you? If the photographer is charging more than you is he charging 50% more, 200% more or even more?

I don't ask this to be controversial, but to understand your market. If my question is inappropriate, please disregard my question.

Hi Noa,

You bring up a very valid point. I don't know how much things cost in your country, but when you are shooting a wedding with a photographer that is similar in quality as you, are you getting paid the same as the photographer, or does the photographer make more than you? If the photographer is charging more than you is he charging 50% more, 200% more or even more?

I don't ask this to be controversial, but to understand your market. If my question is inappropriate, please disregard my question.


I am not Noa, but I can say I get paid better for photography, but there is more expense in the final project. I am now getting paid pretty well for video for what I offer. I deliver more than I offer, meaning I offer straight edit, and do the multi cam edited version for my own practice and of coarse deliver that, but what I am responsible to deliver is basic straight edit. I clearly explain this that what so and so got was the bennefit of me learning and things worked out good, if I do that for them its my choice, and no charge to them, but what I am getting paid for is this. I see no other way to learn and get paid at the same time.

Mark, your DVD's have helped so much and I know getting to see you Live will may a world of difference.

Denny

It's not inappropriate at all Mark, I'm not going to calculate exchange rates between dollar and euro but just for comparison purposes lets say I charge 800 euro for a full day coverage (I work alone) the average prizes that videographers ask in Belgium would be between 600 and 1200 euro.
Photogos here would ask prizes that vary between 500 and 2500 euro. 500 euro are shoot and deliver photogs, no album, just raw material with minor corrections on a dvd so the client can print themselves.. 2500 euro photogs often have a shop with photo equipment, use hasselblads as their main camera and have a lot of exclusive albums and other options.

In the eastern part of Belgium clients would consider 600 euro a reasonable amount to pay, in the center part around 1000 euro for video. That's the main reason why 80 percent of my bookings comes from the centre part because I'm cheaper then what they are used to.

I am also now full time with this and doing very well. I started out working at a full time job out of college as I built up the business and 2 years later went full time with it...I'll never look back! I've been full time now for 1.5 years and it's been great. The second you do it full time, the business can easily double and you have so much more time to put into what you do and make it better. My wife currently works full time and helps me on weekends. For the last year, she's been working building up the photography end which she really enjoys. We're not even offering it yet, but want to build a solid foundation for it before we do. The plan is for her to go full time by march of next year and hit the ground running just as I did with video. We'll then each be in charge of our respective skills and should have an awesome business.
To answer your question a little more directly, even without her working a full time job and her benefits, I would easily be able to maintain the lifestyle I want with what I'm making by doing this full time....it just takes a lot of work, but I love it!

Matt

The only person in this area offering video shoots with ONE sony handicam and his final product is un edited and quality is poor.

Denny,

Sounds like you recognized a great opportunity and jumped on it!

I've been doing this full time for 7 years. Low cost of living, no kids, and no student loans has helped!

jones

FROM AN EARLIER POST

Here I could say; many clients don't want to pay enough for the work that we put in it which is actually the same but a result for the too low prizes we have to charge just to get a booking.

AND MOST RECENTLY

It's not inappropriate at all Mark, I'm not going to calculate exchange rates between dollar and euro but just for comparison purposes lets say I charge 800 euro for a full day coverage (I work alone) the average prizes that videographers ask in Belgium would be between 600 and 1200 euro.
Photogos here would ask prizes that vary between 500 and 2500 euro. 500 euro are shoot and deliver photogs, no album, just raw material with minor corrections on a dvd so the client can print themselves.. 2500 euro photogs often have a shop with photo equipment, use hasselblads as their main camera and have a lot of exclusive albums and other options.

In the eastern part of Belgium clients would consider 600 euro a reasonable amount to pay, in the center part around 1000 euro for video. That's the main reason why 80 percent of my bookings comes from the centre part because I'm cheaper then what they are used to.

Hi Noa,

Thanks for giving me some insight into your market. I believe videographers should be charging as much if not more than photographers of a similar skill set.

From the earlier post you mentioned that clients don't want to pay enough and that we have to charge too low of a price just to get a booking. Then you said for comparison purposes that you are charging 800, but other videographers are charging as much as 1200 and that you are able to book from the center part because they expect to pay 1000.

My question is this. If they are willing to pay as much as 1200 and expect to pay 1000, why are you only charging 800? By my calculations, you are taking 200-400 out of your pocket on every wedding.

I do not say this to be critical but to be helpful. I am speaking from my own experience.

Several years ago when we were first starting out I noticed that photographers we charging as much as $7000 American Dollars but videographers in our local market were in the $600-1200 average, American Dollars. We knew we could not make a living at those prices. We made our product better and started charging more. Over time our yearly average per wedding slowly and steadily went from $1500...$2500...$3500...$4500 American Dollars. The highest we have charged is $9200. In all of this time, our local videographers are still charging an average of $600-1500. They could be charging more, if they would just ask for it. Why don't ask for it? Because they are afraid people will say no.

I said all of this to make a point from my own experience. If you want to build a premium wedding video business you cannot let your competition set your prices.

Again, I hope to be helpful and not critical.

Just to touch on what mark just said.......About a year ago, I personally talked to Mark about what he just mentioned here. I was in the boat with the average videographer not making what I felt I was worth...and not even close to the photographers in the area. I do still believe a big part of that has to do with what market you're in, but he's right! If photographers are making that much..why can't we. Video is growing rapidly, and at least in my area, it's becoming number #1 must have over photography when people start planning of weddings. There are still those that don't want it, but the ones that do, want to get it booked immediately and want the best. It wasn't like that 2 years ago but I believe that getting a solid and fresh product out there has helped to bring more attention and excitement to it. I am now charging almost double what I was a year or so ago and as far as I know, one of the most expensive within 200-300 miles. And now for the crazy part...it won't slow down. I'm still very busy and getting many calls that I just have to turn down. I'm booking all that I can possibly manage to shoot and edit comfortably. I was very hesitant about this as Mark mentioned, most people are, but I went for it and have a product that I feel supports the price I'm asking and it works.

Matt

Yes I know Mark, charging more might seem easy money but it will result in less bookings so in the worst case I might end up earning even less at the end of the year. The guys asking 1200 do all types of video for companies as well because they can't survive on weddings alone, they also work with 2 videographers on each job and I work alone.

I read a quite popular forum for weddingcouples were they ask for all kinds of tips for their weddings and I only read the questions about videographers, most of them ask for videographers in the 600 and lower region.

I also make eventvideo's and I also work together with a supplier of "chatboxes" (unmanned camera's with a microphone that record the guests wishes) and those are very popular around these parts.
It's with these extra things I do I manage to keep my business running, weddings is an important part but not THE most important part anymore, I found that approach to be much safer.

I'm always looking for extra ways to get cash coming in and eventhough I specialize in weddings I'm slowly expanding as well, like I just started doing event video's for a event coordinator this year and they really liked my work so they provide me work on a regular base and an based on hour rate. That gives me a much better security then weddings alone.

Video is growing rapidly, and at least in my area, it's becoming number #1 must have over photography when people start planning of weddings.

I think that's the main difference between your area and mine, here it isn't and if it is it's occupied by cheap videographers that are not registered or have a business. Those kind of wannabees that have a camera, are a member of a videoclub, have regular full time jobs and think they are spielberg. They don't pay any taxes or don't have to hire a bookkeeper.
In the area were clients do want to pay more there are too many videographers each looking for a piece of the cake and the cake aint that big. :)
Belgium is not such a video country for wedding couples, just to give you an idea, I have seen some of your work Matt and think it's really great and I think most of your clients contact you because they liked the emotion and storytelling in those trailers. I also try to make my trailers on my site in that way but a response I got from a client last time was that she was afraid the whole movie would look like that and wanted to know if I shoot in a documentary style. You know, just plain point and shoot.
There are just a few clients that appreciate the artsy stuff and willing to pay for it.

My wife and I are in video full time with no additional outside income. I'm not knocking anyone who has a spouse that adds to the monthly income or adds insurance benefits, but the rubber really hits the road when you both do video full time.

I so wish I could get me wife interested in working with me!

I so wish I could get me wife interested in working with me!

Hi Joel,

I don't know how I could do it. I guess I would have found a way, but I would not have the training branch of our business, that's for sure.

Yes I know Mark, charging more might seem easy money but it will result in less bookings so in the worst case I might end up earning even less at the end of the year. The guys asking 1200 do all types of video for companies as well because they can't survive on weddings alone, they also work with 2 videographers on each job and I work alone.

I read a quite popular forum for weddingcouples were they ask for all kinds of tips for their weddings and I only read the questions about videographers, most of them ask for videographers in the 600 and lower region.

I also make eventvideo's and I also work together with a supplier of "chatboxes" (unmanned camera's with a microphone that record the guests wishes) and those are very popular around these parts.
It's with these extra things I do I manage to keep my business running, weddings is an important part but not THE most important part anymore, I found that approach to be much safer.

I'm always looking for extra ways to get cash coming in and eventhough I specialize in weddings I'm slowly expanding as well, like I just started doing event video's for a event coordinator this year and they really liked my work so they provide me work on a regular base and an based on hour rate. That gives me a much better security then weddings alone.

Hi Noa,

I understand if the 1200 guy is using two cameras and you are not. I also know videographers here in the US that shoot with just one camera that charge a lot more than guys using 3 or more cameras.

Charging more is not easy. You cannot use the same marketing techniques as you currently are. You have to change your whole approach to the business and think like the clients that you want to reach. There is a lot more that goes into it than that, but is not just as easy as raising your prices and expecting the same Brides to pay significantly more.

There is risk involved with raising your prices. Our goal was to have a business that did not require us to be shooting a wedding every weekend and is what we have done.

Thank you for exchanging ideas with me and I want to leave you with a quote from Robert Shuller.

"What would you attempt if you knew you would not fail?"

Just to touch on what mark just said.......About a year ago, I personally talked to Mark about what he just mentioned here. I was in the boat with the average videographer not making what I felt I was worth...and not even close to the photographers in the area. I do still believe a big part of that has to do with what market you're in, but he's right! If photographers are making that much..why can't we...


...I am now charging almost double what I was a year or so ago and as far as I know, one of the most expensive within 200-300 miles. And now for the crazy part...it won't slow down. I'm still very busy and getting many calls that I just have to turn down. I'm booking all that I can possibly manage to shoot and edit comfortably. I was very hesitant about this as Mark mentioned, most people are, but I went for it and have a product that I feel supports the price I'm asking and it works.

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'm glad to hear that business is going so well for you. Congratulations!

I so wish I could get me wife interested in working with me!
Same here. Actually she tried it but found that the long days were too hard on her feet.

Thanks for all the responses. I have had some photography friends ask why I am adding video with my business going so well, and I have booked a few video weddings, and later had photography customers want the same date, but we were already booked.

Well I really like having my eggs spread out a little, and there is a very slow time for photographers from Jan-March and hoping to find some video work to do in that period to give me a little more mad money.

Thanks for all the responses. I have had some photography friends ask why I am adding video with my business going so well, and I have booked a few video weddings, and later had photography customers want the same date, but we were already booked.

Well I really like having my eggs spread out a little, and there is a very slow time for photographers from Jan-March and hoping to find some video work to do in that period to give me a little more mad money.

photographers tends to say nothing positive about people who do both videos & photos because they are afraid of losing their market share.

I'm sure they will be very friendly with you but when talking to their potential customers and mention your name doing both ... i don't know.

Well I really like having my eggs spread out a little, and there is a very slow time for photographers from Jan-March and hoping to find some video work to do in that period to give me a little more mad money.

You're very smart to do this even if it isn't for the money. With the technology that's coming down the pipe, be it the Nikon D90 or the quality, resolution and low light ability of the RED, it's only a matter of time before the two are so intertwined and brides start assuming both. Getting a start now learning about motion images and all that goes into making good ones will give you a huge advantage in the future. It's never to hard to learn a new piece of equipment if you know the foundations of what you're doing.

With the democratization of video via the internet, it's going to be come more and more expected.

Judging from the cameras I'm already using (SR11 and CX12), the ability to shoot at least decent resolution for moderately sized pictures simultaneously with video is here RIGHT NOW.

Still not sure entirely what to do with it, but it's here... with limitations no doubt, and you still need to have a good DSLR or other still camera for formals and anything you want to have for a large format enlargement, but it's rapidly becoming a question of the skill of the "camera operator" to frame, position, compose and shoot raw material that can be enhanced in post for the desired result.

The next few years will no doubt see a blurring of the "line" as technology continues to evolve and improve... Perhaps there will be the need for a new "job description"?

I haven't made the jump to full time I just feel more comfortable with a regular job with benefits. In addition, I've discovered pricing freelance and the amount of time you put in can be tricky to balance. Clients can take advantage of you if you don't know how to properly charge for your services.

I've done video and photography. I find that photography to be not as dynamic as video, not knocking it just after a while its the same thing. Both are challenging, with photography its knowing where to be to get that shot and its pressure not to miss the crucial shots.

The difficulty I find with video is the latitude of what is good enough or how much do you provide for the money. In my opinion there is a lot more involved in making a quality video, multiple cameras with operators (who know what they're doing), wireless mics, steady cams, lights, and all that time to make a quality edit. The cost of all the equipment including the editing station and software, and the expertise to use it. I agree that we often don't get properly compensated for the amount of time and money invested.

Since I don't do this as a full time gig I under price my services or have clients who can't afford the level of quality I'm providing. Of course if I didn't derive satisfaction from doing video I'd do something else. But this is what I come back to with the latitude of quality, I once was shocked when I viewed the work of a colleague who I had taught with. Almost all his work was one camera with very little editing. I wasn't not impressed at all but he commanded a high amount of money and yet he had no shortage of customers. I on the other hand would have put in twice the amount of work but would the client know the difference?

As for doing both photo and video, for the most part I've learned to say no. I'd rather do one thing well than two things mediocre. For dance recitals I'll shoot photos at the dress rehearsal then video the performance, but never both at the same time, they both require your undivided attention.

I've been full-time doing video production for about 2.5 years - mostly corporate work and TV commercials over that time. My wife has been running her own photography business specialising in child and maternity photography for about 1.5 years. Neither of us has a 'day job' - nothing like knowing that there's no 'Plan B' to get you motivated :)

In June we started our new business, Shadowplay Photography and Video, so that we could work together on weddings. Over time my goal is to do less corporate work and more wedding related work.

Regarding pricing, I've got a few thoughts:

- A lot of videographers are afraid to charge more than photographers

- Wedding photography offers a much more tangible end-product - i.e. albums, prints, canvases etc ... so it is easier for clients to spend the money on something that they can touch and feel. The end-product of wedding videography is a printable DVD with a bunch of 1's and 0's on it. The actual disc is worth less than $1 but the real value is the data on the disc. The time spent by the videographer (aside from the actual wedding day) is mostly invisible to the client. This is why educating our clients about the time we spend and charging appropriately for it is so important

- A lot of wedding videographers (and photographers for that matter) are not charging what their time and talent is actually worth. Many have not even done a simple expense analysis to calculate how much their business actually costs to run

- Many photographers and videographers start out with low pricing and find it difficult to transition to a higher price bracket. They then become dependant on the income and face the risk of losing work and their livelihood if they raise their prices.

I had lots of other thoughts in my head but it's a bit late and my brain is getting ready for bed :)

Mark - Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. As I'm someone in the early days of building a premium business I appreciate your advice and insight.

Cheers,

Matthew.

Regarding pricing, I've got a few thoughts:...
Matthew summed it up pretty well. I've had clients who wanted to make the editing decisions so I said fine come over and I'll charge you my hourly rate. They are always surprised how much time and work it is to go through all that footage and make all those editing decisions. As a result, I get paid for my time, they scale back their expectations, and are more appreciative of what I do. If you can think of another way to educate your customer that would be good too.

If you can think of another way to educate your customer that would be good too.

What about putting up a webcam behind your editing desk with a live stream on your website so they could see you editing? :)

I think what Matthew said about photography being a more tangible end-product is what makes the difference I think, people can see what they have paid for while a video is "just" a small disk in a plastic box. For that reason they might find it normal to pay more for photography.

Along the lines of how long editing takes and that many customers don't realize the time involved, this is happening on the still side too. With digital photography being so easy to get decent images (not pro quality) at home or the drugstore, many don't realize the the time a pro puts into editing and polishing images. By no means is it as much time as editing video but, it can be substantial.

This applies to still and video - while you can get an "OK" result with some of todays consumer cameras, it's the "sweetening" in post that makes a lot of the difference between "OK" and something that pops.

The image quality difference between some of the sub $1k HD consumer cams and a "pro" camera or camcorder is becoming a matter of extremely small differences that 999 out of 1000 people wouldn't ever notice or give a hoot about.

What really makes the difference is operator skill and knowledge/experience (talent is handy too), a few critical additions to guarantee a well lit shot, a stable shot (or a steadicam if you're really serious), and the magic that happens in post.

Anyone can sit behind the wheel of a racecar, but there are race car drivers for a reason...

Anyone can point a camera and shoot...

So the question is, are you a guy with a camera, a photographer/videographer, or a visual artist?

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it that counts ;)

Given the same equipment, a professional should be able to achieve a better result than an amateur every time. Unfortunately, many years of poor quality offerings has educated brides and the general public that there isn't really much difference between 'Uncle Harry' and a professional when it comes to wedding videography. Fortunately this is changing, as can be evidenced by many talented folks on this forum.

Educating our clients is the key. Sometimes the quality of our work speaks for itself but sometimes it doesn't. The equipment we use and the quality of our end-product are only parts of the equation. As professionals, everything should be leveraged to create an excellent customer experience. Our websites, our branding, our phone manner, our e-mail skills, our appearance, our dress standards, our equipment, the packaging of the final DVD, our client interaction skills, our studio space etc ... - it's all connected. Everything and anything that our clients see, hear, touch and feel when dealing with us should speak to our professionalism and passion for creating a great client experience.

Focusing on creating a great experience for our clients, rather than touting the gear we have, will hopefully put the 'Uncle Harry' issue to bed once and for all.

Very well said. Now only if I could fix my studio space problem as it currently shares the room in which I sleep. (or at least until construction is finished on my house)