Bloody Paypal.

I rue the day I didn't listen to Ron Kilby. Why didn't I listen to him. They have screwed us around for the last week, being totally unreasonable and overbearing.

They couldn't understand why we were having so much activity right out of the gate. I explained to them that I had been a Paypal member under my own email for three years, and that this was a separate thing altogether, but the same person.

Without a phone call, they tuned off the account so that we couldn't accept any more orders, and stopped us from being able to transfer funds.

They demanded Proof of ID, I gave them my NSW Drivers license, they asked for Proof of Location I gave them our latest electricity bill, and our family mobile bill.

Then they demanded to see the invoice for the Expresscards, along with specific contact information, which as you can understand I reluctantly provided.

Then they started asking for shipping info. This was last week, when we hadn't shipped anything. I explain myself time and time again, voice calls and emails. Nothing seems to penetrate their thick skulls.

I tell them to look up my website, and do a timecapsule thing that it's been up for ten years. No difference.

So I ask them what is it you need to allow us to access our funds. No-one seems to know.

Then they demand to see the tracking details of five customers taken at random. Two were already using courier, but we upgraded three more so we had specific courier tracking information, uploaded to their site yet again.

Then they come back and want five more, and ask for more information on proof of location. Bloody hell, we bought that house in 2001. What more bloody proof do you need, do they want to see the title to the house?

So I sent back ALL the tracking numbers for ALL the orders we sent out yesterday, so they can't ask for any more of those. It took us all afternoon and evening to scan, enhance, and upload to their site, and here I am again 11.45 at night, stuffing around with bloody Paypal again.

And all this time, they have our money, and I've had to fund from my credit card all the packaging, freight, and insurance, even though you kind people have already paid for it.

I'm sending out everything, to keep my commitments to you, and I'm very rapidly going completely broke, even thought there are plenty of funds to cover it.

When I got another refusal for them to stop limiting my account this morning, I snapped. I mean literally snapped.

I told them the following... (their program strips out numbers for whatever reason)


"Please expedite review process"

Today I uploaded copies of Proof of shipping of all five Transction Id you gave me. They were forward orders, that, along with all orders to ## December ####, shipped
yesterday ex Hong Kong.

#). You have my NSW drivers license.

#). You have our latest Power Bill.

#). You have copy of Mobile phone bill.

#). You have a copy of Proforma Invoice, and Final invoice.

#). You have the contact details, website, of our Supplier.


WHAT STUFFING ELSE DO YOU NEED. I NEED THAT CASHFLOW TO ORGANISE THE NEXT SHIPMENT.

SO WHILE SOME PERSON SITS THERE SMUGLY ASKING FOR ONE MORE PIECE OF INFORMATION, YOU ARE KILLING ME.

I HAVE BEEN REASONABLE UP TO NOW, BUT I NO LONGER WANT TO HEAR FROM YOUR STAFF MEMBER, I WANT A SUPERVISOR FROM YOUR COMPANY TO CALL ME
IN PERSON HERE AT THE EATON HOTEL IN HONG KONG AND EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHAT TIME
TODAY THE ACCOUNT GOES BACK ON LINE.

TODAY.

MY NEXT CALL IN IS TO TODAY TONIGHT, CURRENT AFFAIR, ALONG WITH DFAT, WHO I WILL ACCUSE YOU OF CHOKING EXPORTS.'

IF I DO NOT SEE MY ACCOUNT UNFROZEN TODAY, I AM GOING TO CALL ONE OF MY FRIENDS IN CANBERRA, WHO KNOWS THE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR SIMON CREAN THE MINISTER OF TRADE, FOR AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

I KNOW HE WILL TAKE MY CALL, WHEN I TELL HIS CHIEF OF STAFF WHAT IS GOING ON.

THEN YOUR COMPANY CAN FIND OUT WHAT THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT DOES TO COMPANY'S THAT STUFF UP OUR EXPORT MARKET.

THOSE GUYS AREN'T NICE LIKE ME.

DO IT. DO IT NOW.


So they send back another inane email, “we are reviewing your case and will be in touch in due course”.

IN DUE COURSE, ARE YOU FOR REAL.

PAYPAL YOU ARE HISTORY.

WE WILL NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE EVER AGAIN.

WE CAN ONLY ACCEPT DIRECT TRANSFER UNTIL I CAN GET BACK TO SYDNEY TO SETUP QUICKBOOKS AND THEIR MERCHANT SERVICES.

If I lose your order because you will only use Paypal, I tell you I will truly regret that, because we think we have a product that is purpose built to do the job. And I want those who are going to get in the next few days to be the judge of it not us.

I want your order, but I'm going to go broke to send it, I'm really sorry about that, I truly apologise. We have done nothing other than try and help solve a problem that was driving us crazy as well. Paypal has done their level best at every turn to frustrate and stifle us.

I would like to have a nice face to face with PAYPAL.

A friend of my wife's is a journalist for one of the large papers here in Sydney, and writes one of the computer technology columns. When Martha told her she gave us the private work number of the head of Ebay in Australia, (wait for Monday morning Sydney time), along with the mobile number of Ebays Public Relations here in Australia.

Public Relations, are they kidding. I think I’m going to show them what a Public Relations nightmare looks like.

They obviously have never taken on someone from Ngati Maniapoto before ( my area in New Zealand), we were never conquered by the British, we never give in, NEVER.

Boy are the in for a fight. Someone's going to get a black eye, and I’ve got the Australian government covering my back, (I hope).

So dear readers, as usual another great big long rant.


On a lighter note, I've started blogging, and I bought 6 different memory types today to test. I'll post those real soon. As soon as my blood stops boiling. … could be a while.

I know you must be pissed but maybe still it would be wiser to keep proper tone with their customer service, altough they aren't much helping you. Yelling to the people who are just trying to do their job, as they have been instructed by their superiors, will make them lesser eager to help you. I believe it would sound more professional if you stayed calm and kept them posted of your own actions like contacting the chamber of commerce for investigations, contacting lawyer for the problems they've caused to your business... threatening to do something is always bad, so it would be better to state thing as you've already had done them. Perhaps then they'd have more interest of protecting their public image. I bet they've started this sort of actions innitially because they've probably got some complainments from their customers who've got ripped of by someone. Now the circle closes as their "customer protective" actions actually start to harm customers.

Awful situation, I hope you get it sorted out.

Ironically PayPal has been doing this for years and the media around the world has not raked them over the coals for this.

In PayPal's mind they're protecting the consumer . . . by throwing small business under the train.

It's non uncommon to see people who sell on EBay but state they refuse to accept PayPal.

I has one experience with PayPal where we moved our small business/home and they flatly refused to move our bank account and access address. We eventually set up another bank account, had it certified and they transfered the funds from the old bank to the new bank.

Tuomas, I guess you never dealt with PayPal. They are not "just doing their job." Humans do jobs. These people have NO CAPACITY to understand simple logic. They are automatons and deserve to be treated like the dysfunctional machinery that they are. When they act like humans, they'll deserve to be treated like humans. They have NO CAPACITY for sympathy, empathy or any other human trait.

Ross, I have been through a couple of start up ventures myself. The entrepreneurial experience would not be complete without a last minute crisis that delays a launch and causes blood to boil.

Fear not, as I think most everyone who has placed an order so far understands the nature of your young company and product. There will always be a few glitches when lurching out of the starting gate.

I'd try not to burn too many bridges at PayPal, while quietly arranging a preferable option through QuickBooks or whatever. Soon enough those funds will be freed, and your days of putting business expenses on personal credit cards will be over.

As someone said, this inefficiency is the price we all pay for all those Nigerian email scammers (my apologies to any Nigerian email scammers I may have offended).

Amazing isn't it. Ross, do what you need to do. Get your new stuff set up, and I'll gladly order with you. The work you've done to make this solution viable is a credit to you, and your business.

I feel very comfortable giving you and people like you, my business. I can wait a few weeks to order.

-P

I endorse that. Will place order as soon as you are sorted out. I have been caught in the PAYPAL net of no common sense in the past. I now do my very best to avoid them when ever possible.

They did similar things to me last xmas and stopped my account just at the critical time, they also hung onto several payments for over a month and copped the interest for themselves.

I actually spoke to someone and said I could do anything they wanted to verify my details over the phone or e-mail but that wasnt good enough as they had sent in the post some verification codes and they couldnt over ride them.

I do wish you luck, but my experience tells me paypal will win.

I have been a user almost since day one and my own site still uses paypal - every single day. I vowed 2009 is the year I break away - go here Welcome to PayPalSucks.com, PayPal Lawsuit, PayPal Alternative, PayPal Complaints, Fraud & Evil behind the PayPal system! (http://paypalsucks.com/)

An ex-employee of paypal spilled the beans on the above website about the Mafia management tactics of paypal.

I lost $1200 with paypal last year in just one transaction and had to use an attorney - did I get my money back ... no!!

Ross, you have my sincere sympathy. If it's any help, one day you'll look back on this whole experience - and throw up.

Like Dante's Inferno, there are 6 levels of PayPal Hell. You have reached level 3. Remember that, by design, they hold all the cards. You have to waste days trying to talk to a human, only to learn the "humans" are programmed to be annoying, demanding and unresponsive. That's ok - that's their job. Yours is to keep going. Your only weapon is your tenacity. Stay the course. Make it your hobby to make their lives miserable. Have a couple of XXXX Golds and enjoy the process. Document everything.

Next time I'm in Sydney, I'm treating you to a nice steak and grog. Attached photo is my last trip. I'm 3rd from the right. Harley riders = instant friendship anywhere :)

Best.

Hi Ross!

I´m piping in behind Mr. Ford & Mr. Rawlings, I´m ready to place my order whenever you are properly sorted!! You´ve done a good job on this, a week or two of back orders due to general paypalness won´t change that!

Merry Christmas from Sweden!

Magnus

Ross.
I'll send cash or cheque if you want, you sound like a trustworthy guy, you're hardly going to bump someone for a few pounds/dollars and risk it being shouted about on this forum.
If i send you some money then i want you to have it, not paypal.

Paul.

I'm with Ross. If he has the clout to get it in papers etc then he should. paypal has been doing this sort of thing for years with no comeback. Playing Mr Nice Guy will only make them think that they can keep getting away with it.

NZ may not have been run by the British, but I'm sure as hell on his side in this fight!

Hi Ross, I'm behind you 100%. I placed an order yesterday and now I'm sorry I did. I am looking forward to using the gear you sell but if I had known you are getting jerked around by PayPal I would have waited. The amazing thing is the money was sucked from my account right away and it should go right to you and if it doesn't then that fraud on PayPal's part. It seems they should and can be prosecuted for fraud. It seems like you have gone all the way to satisfy their inquiries so they should do as they said they would when you signed up.

I'm with you Ross, if you cancel my order I will reorder and understand.

Thanks for the heads up.

Ross, PP took my money from my credit card. Let me know if you receiced it.
If not, I'll tell my CC company to take the money back from PP. They do that
if the money transfer has not been performed properly. No further questions
asked. Very easy. All in all, no worries. PP is a money clearing instrument.
they are not allowed to put their moral upon us or you for that matter.

Contact Visa and MasterCard Australia. They'll be glad to help you.

Ross, consider this instead: Google Checkout - Merchants (http://checkout.google.com/sell/?gsessionid=XOyhiBU0ts8)

Ross, you clearly are trying your best and that is plain to all. Do take a deep breath and try to not go over the top...stay as civil as you can as has been recommended, though I'm sure at this point I would be ranting myself.

I too will look into Google, Chris. I don't do large volumes, but I had a very scary experience with my funds being frozen after a sale earlier this year, and I still haven't forgotten it. Add that to the fact that I avoid e-bay like the plague now due to their new "rules", and I'm about ready to use an alternative.

I called Paypal again yesterday morning, and asked for a Supervisor, and relayed to him the ongoing frustration I have had with them. He apologised and said he would look into it, i suggested the time for looking into it has gone it's in the middle ages.

I told him I wanted to speak to his boss, to give his company one last opportunity before I unleashed the Australian Government on him, and wonder of wonders. He said that he could actually make the decision after all, and the account was going to be unlocked as we spoke. I agree he made the right call, our Government at the moment is in no mood to stuff around if our exporters are being interfered with. They wouldn't slap them on the wrist they would kick them in the n**ts, then kick them on the ground.

So after spending most of the night before shutting PP down, I now have to reopen it, I worked again until 1.30am with our developer to get the website up and running, so it's up and running now.

I'm spending the morning on the phone with potential e-commerce people, so that we have an alternate as soon as practically possible.

I apologise for this ongoing saga, but I thought you might like to know what goes on behind the scenes with these dopes.

So they have released some but not all funds, at least I won't be washing dishes for 6 months in Hong Kong, even though it is the most vibrant city I've ever been to.

This has been very distracting, and our concentration on getting on top of orders has fallen away since it really exploded on Sunday our time. This morning we will grab the reins and be fully across all orders.

So Paypal, the worst company I have dealt with by a country mile, I’m stuck dealing with them for the time being. BUT NOT FOR LONG.


NOW ON A MORE POSITIVE NOTE.

I met with two of the top engineers yesterday, and we had a brainstorming session, well actually they've got the brains, and I just stormed around.

The first product we have come up will allow downloading of up to six Expresscard to one computer simultaneously. No more one card after another. When we get some working models, I'll give the old video tour of the product. But unlike the MxR expresscard, we won't shoot and edit it in less than half an hour, we might even take, oh say, two hours. Please don’t try and tease the details of this out of me, because the details are still pretty fluid, but I will keep you up informed as things start to firm up.

Gee it's great sitting with guys who when you ask can they do it, you can see the wheels whirring, the pistons flying. They design the product, the assembly line the dies all in their minds, and then do a rough costing. Very impressive stuff.

Man this whole project is like working at warp factor 8, except unlike Scotty, "she can take more, and she won't fall apart".

I'll really have to get serious about the blog. I keep writing here because I know that everyone reads it.

SHould i just put a message that I have written some more stuff, or only put info in the blog, and just hope people check it? What do you think?

Anyway it's 5.30am and time to hit the coffee shop, I leave for Sydney tonight with 500 cards tucked into my suitcase. I'm just going to say they're samples. "No really officer we have a huge R&D team and they wanted one each."


Please note Aussie customers, we sent 500 by DHL, express to Sydney on Saturday am, and only found out that they are still in Hong Kong as of last night. But don't worry. I'll have enough to cover the orders for Aussieland, and we will send them all out tomorrow (Wednesday) to be delivered Christmas eve.

The offer still stands though, if you want one of Santas little helpers to deliver in person, we are happy to help, just let us know as soon as you can, so we don't hand them over to AusPost.

Apart from that, dear readers, I hope during the holidays you have a chance to relax and be with those most dear to you, if not then with your family, just kidding, I hope you have great break and come back refreshed and ready to tackle another exciting year in video production.

All the best,

Ross I am glad your problems seem to be easing.

get those clever design guuys together and get them to come up with an SXS replica. Rather than use SDHC cards in an adaptor, the best thing w could all have is a 32Gb express card fast enough for slo mo at all rates.

They and yourself would make a killing if a card could be produced which was a fraction of the SXS card, but did the same.

Ross I am glad your problems seem to be easing.

get those clever design guuys together and get them to come up with an SXS replica. Rather than use SDHC cards in an adaptor, the best thing w could all have is a 32Gb express card fast enough for slo mo at all rates.

They and yourself would make a killing if a card could be produced which was a fraction of the SXS card, but did the same.

Steve,

You weren't listening in were you, did I have Skype on and someone logged in?

I can relay one problem in building such a card, and that, believe or not is the spot price of flash. Did you know that flash has a spot market who volatility eclipses currency, futures, and derivatives?

It can change 30% in one day!

Imagine trying to quote a selling price with that kind of volatility.

Just one little factor in buying quality RAM you have to buy in Minimum Order Quantities of wait for it, smallest is US$100,000, and that is for rubbish RAM. Good stuff and double or triple it. That's a pretty serious hurdle to entry if I've seen one.

Give me some time to settle in any teething problems on MxR, (not that I am expecting any, (but these are mechanical things and mechanical things don't tend to self heal). And we'll take a serious swing at it.

Ross.
Offloading 6 sxs cards, or 6 of your adaptors and sdhc cards i presume !
Will this device be able to offload the sdhc cards without the use of the mxr adaptor ?

Thanks.
Paul.

Hi Ross

I got a message a few days ago that my adapters were shipping out. Thanks and I look forward to getting them.

One thing that perhaps was mentioned before, was to try to bypass the USB 2.0 limitation of the Expresscard and Sony EX1 interface and go directly to the PCI interface, which is what the SxS cards use. This allows for very fast transfer rates.

I think that if you could interface the SDHC to Expresscard PCI it would allow us to get most of the advantages of top bandwidth slo-mo as well as fast offload of the cards when inserted in our Expresscard laptop slots. I think that the faster SDHC cards could accommodate the required bandwidth without the USB limitations. I also think that the market for this would not only be for the Sony EX series but anybody that wants to use ever more increasing size and speed SDHC cards for recording and storage of anything.

Just a thought. Good luck to you and thanks for all the trouble.

-Keith

I also think that the market for this would not only be for the Sony EX series but anybody that wants to use ever more increasing size and speed SDHC cards for recording and storage of anything.

Heck, yeah. I don't even have an ex1, and I considered buying the adapter just to use with my Macbook Pro for transferring stuff.

Ross, Paypal has its place, but normally businesses do get a merchant account and a getaway to process transactions. That way, you not only get a proper, tried-and-true architecture of the store(your front end)-payment processor-bank, but also proper contract with them taht shows what is it that you do, and what are you allowed to charge your customers for. So then there are no surprises when you start doing business. You also get accountable people to talk to. Is merchant account bullet-proof? No, but way better than Paypal for your particular application, I'd think...

Chris Hurd's suggestion is also a very good one. I heard nothing but good things about Google Merchant account. But it is more limited than "normal" merchant gateways (Authorize.net and alike) that can be more easily incorporated into the shopping carts.

One thing that perhaps was mentioned before, was to try to bypass the USB 2.0 limitation of the Expresscard and Sony EX1 interface and go directly to the PCI interface, which is what the SxS cards use. This allows for very fast transfer rates.

I think that if you could interface the SDHC to Expresscard PCI it would allow us to get most of the advantages of top bandwidth slo-mo as well as fast offload of the cards when inserted in our Expresscard laptop slots. I think that the faster SDHC cards could accommodate the required bandwidth without the USB limitations. I also think that the market for this would not only be for the Sony EX series but anybody that wants to use ever more increasing size and speed SDHC cards for recording and storage of anything.

I'm with Keith on this - if SDHC compatibility was the Holy Grail, then PCIe bus cards would be the promised land. Or vice versa - not really sure. Okay, I've completely failed at making my point.

Build an adapter that uses the PCIe bus instead of USB, but accepts SDHC. This allows for future-proofing and provides ALL of the functionality of the the original SxS. Plus, you don't have to purchase HUGE quantities of memory - none at all, in fact.

It would be great if you could make a card that would work without having to get the camera firmware updated! I hate the idea of sending in my camera for an update just so I can use cheaper cards. Is this possible?

It would be great if you could make a card that would work without having to get the camera firmware updated! I hate the idea of sending in my camera for an update just so I can use cheaper cards. Is this possible?


Do the update yourself then, i think most of us have.

Paul.

Do the update yourself then, i think most of us have.

Paul.

I must have missed that thread! I was under the impression I needed to send it in! Was this info buried in that L-O-N-G thread about the cards?

Thanks for the heads up!

Paul.
You can do the firmware upgrade yourself if you get the firmware, if you look around on this forum then you'll find where to get it.

It's easy to do the upgrade, if you get the full upgrade package it should have the instructions. It takes about 20 minutes, then you can use the sdhc cards and adaptor.

I'm using the transcend 16gb cards and kensington adaptor, no problems at all.

Paul.

PAYPAL disabled my account for reaching a preset limit on accounts with unvalidated bank details - I never bothered because I they use a card to settle outstanding balances. Anyway (ignoring the awful voice recognition system) they insisted on a direct debit, but couldn't set one up because it's a personal bank account on a business paypal account. So they downgraded me. I got the two small amounts paid in, entered them and got the account locked out because they were wrong - turns out there were two more on their way because of the downgrading, so I had to remove the account and then start it again and cannot make any paypal payments until january. Happily one person I bougyt from offered Google payment which worked like a charm.

Paypal are simply useless when anything needs communication!

I just got my firmware updated and service by Sony before my 12 month warranty ran out, and I think it's worth it.

Sent it 3000km to Sydney, got it back two weeks later - got to talk on the phone to the Sony guy doing the service.

It included a replacement part to prevent battery draining whilst OFF, checked back focus, renewed rubbed-off lettering (mine was around ND switch) and updated firmware.

Good as new.

edit: Sorry Ross - this thread's on Paypal. Sympathies for all that effort you wasted on them - good luck with the adapters.

Years ago they suddenly had frozen my account of my onlineshop.... strange thing is that they did this after I had more than 3000$ on my account there.... I lost all that money and have zero chance to receive it! I still had a lot of luck because this were just download videos where I earned the money with. But I can imagine how hard this must be for a electronic dealer who still have to pay the bills to the wholesaler.

Yep, I've heard so many similar stories. The only solution is to make sure that you transfer funds at the end of each day. Never let Paypal keep enough to do you damage.

The only solution is to make sure that you transfer funds at the end of each day. The main problem have dealer who sell camcorders via PayPal... Just imagine somebody buy an Ex3 and hours after the transaction your account is closed. So you have to ship the camcorder to your customer but will never see the money for it.

But dealers have no chance. When they don't offer PayPal, people can not understand why, because PayPal is such a "trustable" company.

If yu do get your money frozen with Paypal, they don't "just keep it". that would be theft. What they do is hold onto it for a 6 month period before returing it to you via your bank or credit card. they hold it for that long to make sure there will be no charge backs from customers.

if you haven't received the money owing you can chase them and go to the police to report a theft.

if you haven't received the money owing you can chase them and go to the police to report a theft.
Sorry but this is not theft in legal terms. Let your lawyer contact des Bundesamt für Bankenaufsicht, PP being a "bank" now in Europe, this would be the first contact.
You can also sue them based on §812 BGB (ungerechtfertigte Bereicherung) u.a.
Banks have to transfer money in due time. Six months exceeds that timeframe by far.

Just imagine somebody buy an Ex3 and hours after the transaction your account is closed.
Swen, for what reason can they close it? There must be AGBs (general business rules). What do they say to that case?

PS. PP is no trading company. They are a clearing house. Very different.