Hi,

I know practically nothing about video production. Not even home videos. I need to video tape interviews with several people who will probably not be with us for very much longer, so I don't have a lot of time to practice or to learn by trial and error. I'll be doing the interviews myself, so the camera will have to operate with only periodic monitoring. I assume that I'll have to shoot several different perspectives and rely on editing to make them coherent. The raw footage must be good enough quality for use in a TV documentary. I know this sounds crazy, but please indulge me. I have a very broad background in desktop publishing and am confident that I can work out storyboards and master enough proficiency in video editing to do what I have in mind. It's getting the raw material before it is gone that I'm most concerned with right now, and that means starting almost immediately. I will have to carry all equipment with me and will travel from coast to coast, often by air. Since this is an unfunded project, cost is a concern at every stage. I'd welcome advice on what kind of camera, sound and lighting systems are feasible on a shoestring budget. These sessions will all be sit-down one-on-one informal discussions where the captured raw footage will later be used in relatively brief segments interleaved with other story elements. Any thoughts from you folks with experience and an adventurous spirit?

Wayne

wgs@wgs.cc
WGS (http://wgs.cc)

Define "shoe string budget".

Thanks for your quick reply,

Let's say $1,000 for the sake of discussion. I'm not looking for a versatile camera with bells and whistles. Just want to capture simple straight forward video that preferably will interface with a Macintosh computer without tedious conversions.

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

First off, Happy New Year!

From reading your post, I do have to say that you may have too many things on your plate. Like Mitchell, there are quite alot of (initial) questions I'd like to ask you:

1. What do you intend to do with the interviews? You mentioned a TV documentary, but does that mean PBS documentary, cable show-style documentaries (History Channel, TLC, Discovery, Nat Geo, etc.?), or something else? (Your end result may dictate the type of equipment you eventually buy/use.)

2. Do you intend to conduct the interviews yourself? Many folks here do solo interviews all the time. But they've also "perfected" their skills thru practice (and kind advice from forum members) over the years. I myself am very lucky to have a wife patiently hold the boom pole :)

3. Regarding your "shoe string budget": considering the subjects you will be interviewing. You said that they may not be around for much longer. If this is the case, wouldn't you want to capture their (quite possibly last) interview the best way possible? I'm not saying getting the best and latest equipment, but I'm also saying do get equipment that's been proven and reliable. In which case, you may have to spend more than you thought for quality equipment.

These are just a few questions. Your post was intriguing cause back in September, we interviewed older musicians, singers, friends, and relatives who had recorded at the Norman Petty Studios with Buddy Holly. These folks were kind enough to sit and talk to us. At times we thought we'd get a 2 minute sound bite, but ended up with a 30 min. or more interview! I soon ran out of miniDV tapes, but thank God Wal Mart was nearby.

Best,

Hi Wayne,

Just a few really simple thoughts.

A camera that records good audio is a must.

You probably have read up on basic interview lighting. An inexpensive light you might want to consider is the litepanel micro. I think it's usually shown mounted on a camera but doesn't have to be. Nice and lightweight, easy to pack, decent little key light. Check it out at Litepanels Micro at DVcreators.net (http://www.dvcreators.net/litepanels-lp-micro/)

For fast interviews a lapel mic is your best bet on sound. you've probably noticed it can get a tad overwhelming looking through the audio forum here for the "best mic for the money" but it is still your best resource. My only advice there is to spend more than you planned on a better lav. You'll be so glad you did.

Best wishes to you.

Thanks Jeff, Happy New Year to you as well!

I do not have a specific end user at this point, but would guess that a cable show-style documentary would be most likely. I will be capturing memories of WWII veterans that can and will be used in a variety of projects. I will be working alone, so yes I will conduct the interview myself - though I will seldom be on camera. The interviewed subject will not be a discreet "program" but will rather provide source material for clips within a broader editorial scheme. Yes, I do want to capture the best quality possible within reason. Nth degree is not a goal, but clear usable copy is. I would shoot everything with a tripod and with outboard microphones. Lighting would always be controlled. The issue of tape vs. internal hard drive seems to come up in discussions. I would think that the hard drive would be preferable and I could download via firewire to my Mac laptop pretty easily.

From the discussions about cameras that I have read, it seems like some of the newer HD camcorders in the $1,000 street price range would produce pretty decent quality, but I don't know enough about it to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, which is why I asked here.

it seems like some of the newer HD camcorders in the $1,000 street price range would produce pretty decent quality, but I don't know enough about it to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff...As long as you stick with the four major manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, Canon, JVC), you really can't go wrong. There's no such thing as a bad camera choice at this level. You need mainly to decide on tape vs. tapeless (that is, HDV vs. AVCHD). Make sure that Image Stabilisation is turned off when shooting from a tripod. Set the camcorder's image controls to Auto everything, and concentrate on properly framing each shot and getting the best audio you can.

Audio will be ultimately more important than video. Your final production will alleviate the "talking heads" visual aspect by using a lot of inserts, cutaways, etc., but your audio will carry the whole thing so that must be your main concern. Don't skimp on your mic -- get a good one, get a good pair of headphones to monitor your audio, and don't record anything without using them.

Wayne,

You might find this reference useful:

http://www.loc.gov/vets/pdf/thewar-fieldkit-2007.pdf

It was a guide for people capturing interviews for use in the Ken Burns documentary about WWII called "The War'

For more info about the series you can go here:

THE WAR | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/thewar/)

Good luck with your project, sounds fun.

Lloyd

Wayne

I have absolutely NO experience with desktop publishing. None, zero, zilch. But I want to buy a copy Illustrator, and Photoshop and create a compelling coffee table book from start to finish all about WW2 that will sell on the newstands and bookstores - I want to wind up with a file I can take to a publishing house say Time Warner, and they will be able to simply take the file and run off a million copies and sell it on the newstands. Oh yes, I want to do this for $1,000 dollars, all by myself. No hiring photographers, layout artists, writers or graphic illustrators. I simply can't afford them and I don't have the time to do it.

Theres an old saying in production (and most other businesses as well) - "Fast, Cheap, or Good - Pick any two."

You are talking about getting something REALLY important, done quickly on an extremely low budget. Something is likely going to have to give. Decide what you are willing to compromise on, or be flexible about.

Yes, any of the $1,000 consumer cams will capture a decent shot, IF it's well lit and you have EXCELLENT audio. "Content is King" is another phrase you will hear. This means if the interviews you are shooting are absolutely amazing, totally compelling and one-of-a-kind footage, then they will be used by someone even if they are shot on a cell phone. But content will be structured as much by HOW you conduct the interview, as well as what the vets say. Interviews skills are extremely important.

Camera skills, audio skills, interview skills, lighting skills, editing skills, graphics skills -There is a reason that documentaries are produced with 'crews' of experienced people. Yes, I know it can be done solo - I've done it. But I have years and years of professional production experience. And I HATE doing it solo, because I know I'm making compromises and something is suffering.

What is your primary goal here? Is it capturing footage for posterity? Fine - I think you can probably handle that with any decent camera put on a tripond and turned on "Auto" - assuming you understand how to frame. With a lot of luck, some good lighting, assuming the sound is passable and you capture some sort of compelling lifetime confession - it will be usable by someone else as part of their programming.

If your goal here is to create a finished, polished piece to shop around to cable and network sources -your setting your sights pretty high.

Read through the documentary forum here, for tips on solo interviews. Ditto the travelling light kits, and 'best mic to buy' threads.

As others have said, perfect audio will be absolutely essential - without it, you have nothing usable. With poor video - you will still have a great audio track that you can repurpose for radio or behind B-roll.

As you said, you have too many questions, and not enough time for answers to all of them. If this material is so compelling, my advice is to dig deep, and get the money to do it right. The final material will be worth it, and probably pay for itself many times over. If the material is more mundane - sort of 'potential archival' stuff that might be usefull to someone somewhere at a later date - then take a consumer cam on the road, do your best and hope for the best.

Good luck

The raw footage must be good enough quality for use in a TV documentary. I know this sounds crazy, but please indulge me.

Yep, sounds crazy.

Not only must you concern yourself with getting up to speed on how the camera works, what framing to use, how to light it, how to mic it, how to shoot successful cutaways... all the while maintaining minimum broadcast standards with no background in professional videomaking. How about interview technique? This is learned through doing, not reading.

I assume that I'll have to shoot several different perspectives and rely on editing to make them coherent.

The job of a camera operator/videographer is to provide the editor with what they need to tell a story successfully. It isn't the job of an editor to take "whatever the shooter gives him/her" and turn it into something useful.

At VERY least, grab a student from a local community college with some training to help with the technical aspects of this. I'm sure that there would be many willing to work on something like this for credit, if the college is willing to make this a sanctioned project.

Again, I apologize if this isn't what you want to hear but if the stories are worth telling, they are worth telling right. Truly, best of luck and I hope that the end project does this participants justice.

The complete lack of respect for the important stories of your subjects is all I see here. Whoa -- I don't think that's called for, and it's certainly not in the spirit of DV Info Net. From the first day I started this forum, the primary tenet has been to always assume that the efforts of others who post here are done in good faith (unless proven otherwise, of course). The fact that Wayne is doing this project at all, especially without a significant budget as an enticement, is proof enough that he has respect for the subject matter (the alternative of not doing the project at all is a far worse outcome).

Let's keep it technical & creative please -- I'm not going to allow this to go down any other road. There are other community sites which specialize in dragging down others, but not this one. Let's keep the proceedings at the highest possible level, and always assume the best intentions of our fellows. Thanks in advance,

Upon perusal of Wayne's bio which is available from his listed site, I must concede that Wayne has a storied history with the forces and has written as a biographer so I have no reservations about his ability to tell an important story. My sole remaining "concerns" are about ensuring the highest possible quality on the available budget. My apologies to Wayne personally.

Again, I do honestly believe that the "recruitment" of someone with the "necessary" technical and creative skills to do these stories full justice would serve this project well. Again, Wayne, good luck with the project and I sincerely hope that any and all assistance you require avails itself to you.

Sincerely,
Shaun C. Roemich

Thanks to all for the helpful tips. I'm leaning toward a Sony HDR-SR11 or SR12, which are selling right now at very low prices but seem to be excellent cameras. I have not been able to figure out how important the extra 60Gigs of memory in the SR12 are because I don't know how long one can shoot at the highest quality image settings with the internal 60 gigs of an SR11. Other than that, the cameras are apparently identical. Does that seem to be a reasonable camera for my stated project? I'm guessing that my sessions would be no more than an hour long and I could download data to my laptop between sessions. The other question I have is how long would a 60gb download take via USB? According to the specs that I've seen the SR-11 and 12 do not have a firewire port.

My sole remaining "concerns" are about ensuring the highest possible quality on the available budget.

Again, I do honestly believe that the "recruitment" of someone with the "necessary" technical and creative skills to do these stories full justice would serve this project well.

-------

I agree completely with Shaun and I have the highest respect for the people that I will be interviewing. I was involved with a group of people who do have technical expertise and were seeking grants to do this. While this process ground on with excruciating slowness, three people that I would have interviewed have died. I can't wait for someone who can do it better. I will have to interview these people in their homes with the least intrusive setup possible and a crew is simply out of the question. One vet has, for example, invited me to stay in their home with them for a week long shoot of short interviews. I could not do this with a team. Remember, these people are all in their 90s or close to it.

BTW, I did take Shaun's comments constructively.

According to the specs that I've seen the SR-11 and 12 do not have a firewire port.Those are tapeless AVCHD camcorders, Wayne, therefore no FireWire. But they do have USB2. FireWire is only on tape-based HDV camcorders. You might want to consider an AVCHD camcorder that records to removeable SDHC flash memory cards (no moving parts, quieter) instead of a hard drive.

BTW, I did take Shaun's comments constructively.

Thanks Wayne. Despite the tone of my previous posts, I did MEAN them in a constructive manner. My belief is that we get the best results by doing what we do best and allowing others WHERE POSSIBLE (which is obviously the lynchpin here) to do what they do best so we get the highest standard of end result. Please understand as well that the very second TV broadcast comes up, I get very defensive of those of us that do this for a living. When the target is for YouTube et al, ya gets what ya pays for. For television, which SHOULD still be the height of the art (opinions may vary on whether this is still true or not...), I as a viewer expect more than JUST compelling stories. I'd like to hear them and see them in all their potential glory.

A word of practical advice Wayne. One of the hardest things for a new videomaker to do successfully is light a subject. Where possible, try to take advantage of natural light: a comfortable chair near a window with a bounce card on the far side of the face; or an APPROPRIATE outdoor location with good sunlight and little noise "pollution" (up here in Canada we are in -20 right now so indoors it would have to be here...). I also encourage you to use a lavaliere mic in close proximity on the interviewee if you are "going it alone".

I took a stab at it. All prices are from B&H Photo/Video as it was an easy reference. You could probably do better if you shopped around. It would have been nice to choose a 3-light kit, but you could get by with 2 on a shoe-string budget. The tripod isn't anything special, but it will get the job done for what you need.

As I've been reading through this thread, it's been occurring to me that in this project, the sound/story should be way more important than the picture.

In fact, I would think that a pretty effective piece could be done with a still camera and a couple of nice wired lavs - or maybe something like the Zoom or Sony PCM - D50 recorder, which while not perfect should certainly capture reasonable sound from two people a few feet away. In fact, the lack of "studio perfect sound and video" might actually be a plus.

If it were me, I might even go so far as doing everything in black and white.

Maybe a combination of intro and summary voice overs by Wayne to carry continuity and make sure important points are communicated.

Anyhow, I think you could do a nice job with just about any of the small consumer camcorders and a small digital still camera as well as a recorder like the Sony, a couple of relatively cheap tripods, and a couple of pieces of foamcore to use as fill reflectors near a window.

I bet a really nice job could be done with a kit that would fit in a briefcase and cost a total of $1200 - $1500 if purchased new. Or maybe even less! Sound 60%, camera 30%, everything else, 10%

Thoughts?

One of the hardest things for a new videomaker to do successfully is light a subject. Where possible, try to take advantage of natural light: a comfortable chair near a window with a bounce card on the far side of the face; or an APPROPRIATE outdoor location with good sunlight and little noise "pollution" (up here in Canada we are in -20 right now so indoors it would have to be here...). I also encourage you to use a lavaliere mic in close proximity on the interviewee if you are "going it alone".

Thanks Shaun, it's practical advice like this that is very helpful. I know that I'm not going to walk into someone's living room with a cheap video camera and create a professional movie. I do believe that, given the time, I could educate myself to the point that I might produce something useful. But for now, it is urgent that I capture as much as I can in the best way that I can and I have no financial support beyond personal out of pocket funding. What I do have is the ability to travel, the cooperation of the subjects, and boundless determination. I've read some of the lighting threads on this list and found them very helpful. I think I can properly light a single subject (talking head) with a little practice here at home. I understand the dynamics of a lavaliere mike and its advantages in this scenario. I'm sort of hung up right now on camera selection. The Sony HDR-SR11 and the Canon HF10 seem to be the two best choices at a bargain price, but I've read many reviews of these two cameras and the negative comments about editing the AVCHD format are a bit intimidating. I suspect that there is an answer to every problem, but I don't want to preclude any chance of basic editing myself by making the wrong format choice. I'll try to read some of the threads here that deal with editing AVCHD on a Mac, if there are any. Am I overly concerned about this aspect? Admittedly, the data capture is the pressing issue but it's worth a little thought up front if it will save me a lot of grief later.

I do appreciate the patience of all who have commented. I know that this gets boring when a novice jumps in and asks very basic questions. I see it all the time on discussion lists within my own field of expertise. Please rest assured that I value the advice and do take it to heart. I'm on a fast and steep learning curve, but that's not an impossible hurdle.

Generally being a one-man band myself, I see that this could go wrong in a hurry and leave everyone disappointed. If I wasn't so far away, I'd drive over to help you shoot it. Perhaps if you lived some place warmer... (grin)

Seriously, the idea about getting a student from a local college, or even high school could help a lot. Depending upon their experience they could have insight into the black art aspects of lighting and sound which will be key for making this look and sound good. I'll admit that I'm a complete pikey when it comes to lighting and I get paid for doing this.

Wayne... you mentioned that there were others involved in this project before. Could any of them be enticed to help you out? Even if they have little or no experience, you will have someone has interest in the project and can give you feedback on what you are doing. Plus having another set of arms and legs can be invaluable. At the very least your help can sit in the chair whilst you set the lights and check the sound.

Everything tells me that you should not do this solo. Too many things can go wrong in the heat of the moment. Another person will help you in ways large and small that you cannot imagine now.

Mitchell;

Thank you for the great equipment list. I noted immediately that you chose a Canon HV 20 instead of one of the AVCHD cameras that are selling for the same price or less today. That feeds directly into my comments earlier to Shaun about format uncertainties in my camera choice. Was there a particular reason that you avoided the AVCHD cameras?

Jim:

I understand and agree with the aesthetic considerations that you bring up. I hadn't thought about setting up my still camera too, but that's a great idea. I'll be using a lot of BW photo stills from the collections of these subjects, but I think they would provide the necessary nostalgia and the HD video would create a distinct then and now separation. Remember that these guys don't look the same today as they did in 1944, so a contrast of BW and HD color would be very effective I think. Thanks for the encouragement vis-a-vis quality on a shoestring budget. I am beginning to sense the importance of audio that several here have correctly pointed out.

Wayne,

Let me give you an example of how something so right can go so wrong.

You've set up the shot, it looks pretty good. You've got the old tank commander sitting by the window with the golden evening light pouring in ... he's deep into thought, he's opening up about what it was actually like at the Battle of the Bulge... things he's never told his family, you're hanging on every word... listening carefully, (you're even wearing the headphones, so the sound is good...) But what you don't know is that he's leaned forward and to the left ever so slightly, and he's out of frame now, or the headphone cords have pulled the camera off balance a bit, and the shot is out of level... but you are not looking at the camera, because it's MUCH better to be sitting right next to the lens, giving the subject a human he can talk to.. a human he can open up his soul to, a pair of eyes that are engaged with his, urging him to open up... a soft nod, a gentle smile giving him the encouragement he needs to continue with this story....

OR you're wearing the cans, eyes glued to the screen, watching the little levels blink up and down, noticing the sound in the background that's just kicked in.. was that the heater or the fridge in the kitchen??? Maybe I should shut it off - and you miss that magic moment - the moment you should have been giving to the subject, to pursue that hesitation in his voice, and he closes down on you... thinking it best not to mention that awful moment.

I believe YOU believe in the importance of their story. I'm not sure you understand what you are risking by doing this completely alone. "Multi Tasking" is sometimes a necessity, but it's rarely a good thing. Like I said, I've done it, and I HATE it.


Anything worth doing is worth doing right. I believe you and your project will best be served if you produce it, and get someone to shoot it. You don't have time to become an expert, and from your passion for the subject, I can tell you'll be dissapointed in anything less than the best you can get.

(Here's a thought - Why not post the locations you'll be interviewing in, and look for DvInfonet members who might want to lend a hand?)

I just thought that in your situation, that capturing tape into your editing system (what is your edit system?) would be a lot simpler to connect and get working if you used HDV tape. But if you want, you could substitute another camera. That's really up to you. :)

Wayne -

Consider the idea of putting this up as a DVinfo "help wanted" - you might find yourself with a pretty good crew to choose from.

That said, the SR11 and SR12 are identical except for the HDD, 60G vs. 120G. BOTH will record for hours, and you will want to download at least for backup purposes fairly quickly. The file transfer is done via USB, and it's a straight file transfer, so it takes about 1/3 real time typically to dump the files over - very fast.

As far as editing... Mac isn't ideal, but peruse the AVCHD section of DVinfo. IMO the critical aspect is getting footage "in the can" (on the disk?) ASAP, no matter whether in HDV or AVCHD formats. EITHER format should be suitable, I personally prefer the tapeless, but it's really up to you.

The SR's do have a bigger LCD viewscreen, so may be of help while monitoring your shot - which you will need to do. I'd suggest both some form of lav mic AND a small digital audio recorder like the Zoom or Sony - redundant audio in a "one shot" situation is never a bad plan. As noted, be SURE you have a quiet place to shoot, either well lit ambiently, or with a small light kit (or learn how to use "practicals" on site)

You shouldn't need a huge or even terribly pricey kit to pull this off, but the expertise in audio/video/lighting/interviewing is a huge bit to bite off in one shot. If it can be done, the people on this forum are the one crazy bunch to help you pull off the "impossible" (which we all know really means "add more determination, and git 'er done!!!").

I know the small cameras pretty well and know the "lo-budget" dilema quite well, so feel free to PM or ask away. The nice thing is that the quality you can achieve with fairly cheap gear is nothing to be ashamed of, IF you know how to use the gear!

Well folks, I took the plunge and ordered two Canon HV-30s at the astonishingly low price of $598 post paid for the pair - new - from SonicCameras.com. That should ease the camera control issue somewhat as I can set up one camera off to my right, where I can see the display as I'm taping, and can get a 45-degree shot as well as a wider frontal "over the shoulder" shot from the second camera behind me for more options in editing. It will also give me redundancy in filming and in audio as well as an easier edit, I hope, than the output from an AVCHD camera. I can run a lavaliere mike to one camera and a directional mike to the other camera wiring the two camera outputs to left and right earphones respectively for monitoring. It really isn't necessary that I be in the shots at all. Since the cameras are identical, my learning curve will be the same as for a single camera. I'm hoping that the HV-30 remote control supports remote zooming, which would be very helpful. I'm going to be out of town for a week, but will be back home about the time the cameras arrive. I'll do some experimenting with lighting and sound and will probably have some practical questions to ask at that point. I understand the potential problems that can occur from going it alone on these interviews, and appreciate the words of caution. However, the circumstances are rather unusual. I know these people very well - like family - and I'm confident that it will go much better this way.

I want to reiterate my thanks to all for the friendly advice.

I'm hoping that the HV-30 remote control supports remote zooming, which would be very helpful.

It does, but you may well find that it unexpectedly zooms both cameras at the same time. Check out that possibility in your set up - you can always switch off the remote on one of the cameras.

Hi Wayne,

Wow, I'm surprised that you went with the HV30 route! (And two cams at that :) I think Mitchell suggested the HV20 (which is a bit less than the HV30, but have been discontinued). I actually have the HV30 (bought last Spring), but have used it sparingly (since we still shoot SD, with our Canon XL2).

There are many "nuances" (which is a nuisance to most folks :) to the HV30 that you'll find. But the good news is that you'll find plenty of advice about the cam in the HV30 forum.

Best,

Wayne,

Keep us posted about the deliver your new cameras. I am very interested to see if what they promised in terms of price and product turn out to be real. Their review on Store Ratings and Reviews by Real People - Trusted Online Shopping (http://www.resellerratings.com) is terrible.

Wayne -
I think you'll find the place you bought your camera(s) is one of the infamous "New York Camera" scammers... Google for an education, or search here.

Under $600 for two cameras that generally go for around that "street" (or eBay, which is a pretty good market price indicator) is "too good to be true", and you'll no doubt find that it is, be careful.

If you're buying two, shop around REPUTABLE stores and see if they can give you a deal on a pair - far better than "online scam shops". Since you're new to this, you probably haven't heard about "New York Camera Scams", but you're about to find out... You'll end up asking yourself what sort of country allows these sorts of "operators". I myself tried to deal with a couple of these type outfits, and it's nothing but a waste of your time.

HV30 is a decent choice regardless (if you want tape based workflow), and two cams is actually a wise choice - shooting multicam is HIGHLY effective if done right. You can still do it, but in order to get cameras that are from legit vendors/sources, you may need to adjust your budget a bit.

Hi Lloyd,

After clicking on the link and reading a few of the reviews, I almost fell off my chair! Yikes!

Will be interesting what type of service Wayne got from these guys. And those pair of HV30s for under $600!?! What a "steal"...???

Hi Jeff;

I feel a bit sheepish in admitting that I was sucked along by a bait and switch of sorts. It turns out that all they were selling was a camera body with no AC adapter, no battery, no wireless remote, etc. etc. That little fact was not evident in the web advertising that I saw. Fortunately, I found this out before the order was shipped and was able to cancel. The folks at Sonic said that Canon sells the cameras this way, which I doubted at first but since have found other sellers doing the same thing. Anyway, I'm in the middle now of regrouping and searching with a more enlightened view. The $299 HV30 is probably still a great deal, but I obviously need more than the body and did not want to piece it together from hither and yon.

Joy, Joy!

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

That's good news you were able to cancel your order with those guys. And just to reiterate, Canon does sell all their parts along with the camera!

I know how frustrating it was researching/choosing/buying a camera. At the time (almost three years ago) there were so many great and interesting choices, but wanted one that fit within our overall budget. After getting in touch with Brian, owner of Zotz Digital (a DVinfo sponsor), I ordered equipment from him. Not only did he give me a fair price, he gave info and advice, and excellent customer service. Sorry to stray off topic, but I'm glad you saw the ruse, and saw behind the curtain!

The HV30 is still a great little camera if you still decide to get it.

Best,

Looks like you figured this out in the nick of time. I hope they haven't got your $$$ - or if they have, I hope you get it all back.

By the way, at one point you mentioned that you were planning to use a directional mic - I was just wondering what you had in mind. Sound character will probably be quite different compared to a lav and cutting back and forth might not yield the desired result.

You might want to "drop in" on the audio section of the forum to get comments from more sound guys. I record mostly more or less "classical" music so don't have a lot of hands on interview experience, but different types of microphones are quite different in how they "hear" the room.

I don't have any experience with the HV30, but a lot of folks here recommend it quite highly. I downloaded the user guide tonight and looked at it and I think it has enough manual control capabiliy to enable you to avoid common "handycam" issues with auto focus, white balance, etc.

Something else also occurred to me re your comment abut watching the camera display and zooming in for tighter shots - given the high resolution of the camera and the lower resolution of most delivery media, if you're only doing moderate zooms, you might be better off leaving the camera wide and doing some zooming and panning in your video editing package to add some sense of motion to an otherwise fairly static setting. This would also avoid problems with auto exposure compensating for the wider/narrower field of view and shifting the exposure of your subject.

And it would let you concentrate on your subject and mostly ignore the camera which I think would improve the raport and really enhance your result.

Just a bunch of ideas. Hope some are helpful.

Wayne -

Don't feel bad, I'm pretty street smart, and I tried to buy from a couple of these places too <wink>! I had some of these scam sellers try to say they were just selling the "shell" without electronics at the "special" price... un-be-freak-in-lieve-a-BULL! RUN, don't walk...

Glad you were able to cancel, but keep an eye on your CC if they have that info - I've seen postings indicating that SOME of those outfits are a lot more dishonest than others.

As already noted, DVinfo has SPONSORS, and they have been vetted, so you aren't doing the "daredevil" act with your purchase... myself I do eBay, because secondhand gear is cheaper most of the time, it too is an adventure if you're not careful!

DVinfo has a classified board as well, and that's a good resource if you've been a member long enough to have access - since this is a "real names only" community, you can check out who you're dealing with, and there are often some incredibly good deals because of the professional camera addicts here!

If lightly used gear is an option, it might save you some $$...

Thanks guys for the comments on the HV30. I did labor with that decision for some time, but was ultimately swayed by the 24p capture mode and the more edit friendly format.
That may or may not be important, but it seemed useful to me from what I've read. The problem of course is that reading isn't like doing, and I am a babe in the woods. I'm still keen on the HV30, even after the NY experience, and believe that two cameras would reduce the strain and worry about a bad shot here and there. I'd have to be pretty inept to keep both cameras screwed up all the time. Another part of my logic was that I would have two completely independent audio tracks to work with. Mitchell asked earlier what editing system I'll use. I have imovie, Final Cut Pro HD, Sound Studio and a couple other misc. applications for video. The camera comes with some software, but I doubt that it will be very potent.

Mitchell;

Thank you for the great equipment list. I noted immediately that you chose a Canon HV 20 instead of one of the AVCHD cameras that are selling for the same price or less today. That feeds directly into my comments earlier to Shaun about format uncertainties in my camera choice. Was there a particular reason that you avoided the AVCHD cameras?

Jim:

I understand and agree with the aesthetic considerations that you bring up. I hadn't thought about setting up my still camera too, but that's a great idea. I'll be using a lot of BW photo stills from the collections of these subjects, but I think they would provide the necessary nostalgia and the HD video would create a distinct then and now separation. Remember that these guys don't look the same today as they did in 1944, so a contrast of BW and HD color would be very effective I think. Thanks for the encouragement vis-a-vis quality on a shoestring budget. I am beginning to sense the importance of audio that several here have correctly pointed out.

IMHO, as others have said, sound is going to be the most important story element here with pictures supporting it. If you have to compromise because of budget, sacrifice video before you sacrifice audio quality. It is most important for us, the audience, to hear your subject's stories in their words and inflection. That's where most of the emotion will come through. As a case in point, review Ken Burns' "The Civil War" series - and his others as well - where most of the visuals were actually still photos.

Hi Jeff;

I feel a bit sheepish in admitting that I was sucked along by a bait and switch of sorts. It turns out that all they were selling was a camera body with no AC adapter, no battery, no wireless remote, etc. etc. That little fact was not evident in the web advertising that I saw. Fortunately, I found this out before the order was shipped and was able to cancel. The folks at Sonic said that Canon sells the cameras this way, which I doubted at first but since have found other sellers doing the same thing. Anyway, I'm in the middle now of regrouping and searching with a more enlightened view. The $299 HV30 is probably still a great deal, but I obviously need more than the body and did not want to piece it together from hither and yon.

Joy, Joy!

Wayne

Just FYI - most camera manuals are available online in PDF form at the manfacturer's web site and most of them have a "What's in the box" page either in the product description or in the manual that tells you exactly what the manufacturer packs with the camera body. Here's a link to Canon's own site info on what comes stock in the box from the factory: Consumer Camcorders - High Definition Camcorders - DVD Camcorders - Single Chip CCD Digital Camcorders - Digital Camcorder - HV30- Canon USA Consumer Products (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=16206#BoxContentsAct)

I might suggest it's rare you'll get a better legit deal than you'll find at B&H Photo, one of the DV Info sponsors.

Wayne,

Keep us posted about the deliver your new cameras. I am very interested to see if what they promised in terms of price and product turn out to be real. Their review on Store Ratings and Reviews by Real People - Trusted Online Shopping (http://www.resellerratings.com) is terrible.

Lloyd, I can't thank you enough for the link to Store Ratings and Reviews. I may be new to this but I now know how to spot lipstick on a pig.

Just a quick update, I bought a single HV30 including an external AC and 12volt Auto type battery charger. No glitches at all and it arrived with everything that Canon includes with the package. Thanks for the warnings about bait and switch sellers. I am now going to do some test runs and if all goes as expected I'll buy another HV30 for the interview setup. My hope is to connect a Lav mike to one camera and a shotgun to the other, with both running independently and concurrently. That should eliminate the need for a mike adapter/mixer I believe. I am anticipating that I can choose the best of the two audios in edit. I have no idea how difficult it will be to synchronize these in editing, but I presume it is something that one can pick up with practice. Interviewer (me) will not be on camera for most shots, but I might set up a few wide shots or over the interviewee shoulder clips. Interviews will be merged into B roll and stills with professional narration. I'll check back in when I have some vague idea what I'm doing here :-)

Regards,

Wayne

OK. Moving forward. The Canon HV 30 was easy to learn and set up. I bought two units, identical, to do the interviews. One set up on a tripod slightly left of the interviewer/interviewee view line for a wide shot. The other is set up on a tripod at about 30 degrees right of the view line and maintains a fairly tight shot. That way, I figure that I will have redundancy of both video and audio and will be less occupied by camera issues. Either camera can be zoomed by the interviewer with a single remote and there's no need to move out of position. Practice interviews with my wife taught me that no matter what you tell the subject, they will follow you with their eyes if you move around much. For lighting, I am using a key of 85w 6400K with translucent umbrella and a fill of 26w 6500K with the same type umbrella and a back light of 26w 6500K in a simple metal reflector. The whole lighting arrangement cost me about $75 and seems to work, though I wouldn't call it professional quality. If I'm careful with it, I figure it will get me through the dozen or so interviews that I'm planning. My biggest problem was learning to eliminate the reflection from my wife's eyeglasses. I did notice the camera noise right away and also a 60 cycle hum. I got rid of the hum by unplugging the AC adapter and using the battery mode. I got rid of the motor noise by using outboard mikes. I'm using an ATR lavalier mike with one camera and a ATR 25 shotgun mike with the other camera. The shotgun is detached from the camera and mounted forward of the camera about two feet. So far, it seems like all is well from a technical point of view and my budget is still intact. I guess I've got about $1400 total in the setup. I downloaded about 35 gb of clips into my Mac and did some simple cropping. That all went well. So, now a bit more practice and I'm ready to start capturing some of the interviews. Thanks for all the help above, it did make a difference.

Best,

Wayne

Wayne: if I'm reading this right, your camera positioning is actually breaking one of the cardinal rules of video. It sounds like you're "breaking the axis". If I'm reading correctly, you have one camera to the left of an imaginary line running through the head of the interviewee and one on the right side of said line. When you cut back and forth between them, your interviewee will "flip" screen direction: in one clip he/she will be facing left and the other will be facing right. Get both cameras on one side of the line of axis.

Shaun;

You did read it right and yes, I probably did break one of the cardinal rules. Fortunately, I'm still connected here to people who care enough to bail me out of an ignorant situation. I'll reset both cameras to one side of the axis. I assume that the lighting stays the same? Should I set up the cameras on the Key light side or does it not matter? Any other comments are much appreciated.

Thanks so much for your help.

Wayne

Is it your intention to show the interviewer? As in an 'over the shoulder' - reverse setup for Q&A?

If you are simply cutting between a wide and tight shot, then absolutely the subject should stay on the same side of the frame, and his eyeline should remain constant - the cut should be seemless from wide to tight and back.

One of the "tricks" of lighting an interview is keying the side of the face AWAY from the camera to slim the faces of those of us who have ENJOYED our meals perhaps a little TOO much...

There is no right or wrong but it's nice to know what you can do to battle less than ideal visuals.

No, the interviewer (me) will not be shown during the interview as the interview is really intended to preserve an archive of clips that will be used in more than one project. It's not so much a coherent story from or about any one person, but a series of remembrances about a time and place that will be stitched together as part of broader narratives. I'll do two or three hours of taping and will probably extract only a few minutes from any one of the subjects. I wrote a biography about one of the pilots that was killed in action while serving with these gentlemen in 1944. Some of their remembrances will feed into a documentary about him. Others will be used as web videos on a memorial site to the Group that they flew in. Others will find their way into similar projects and sadly into obits as well.

If I understand correctly, the two cameras should be on the side of the axis opposite the key light -- in other words to my left as I face the subject because the key is on the right. The subject should look at me rather than at the camera(s). Richard, I don't understand your comment that "eyeline should remain constant". It seemed to me that the two cameras should be separated by perhaps 30 degrees, but to maintain a constant eyeline the cameras would have to be lined up with each other wouldn't they?

TECHNICALLY, if the cameras could co-occupy the same space and one was a medium shot and one was a close up, cutting between them would constitute a "jump cut". TECHNICALLY you "need" to vary the angle slightly as well.

Do you see the above every day? Yes. Is it wrong? Classically? Probably. In modern practice? See how it looks...

So, maybe I'll try a little of each and see what I like best. I love the interviews at the end of Band of Brothers, (posted on YouTube) but don't want to copy too closely and don't know if I could ever come close to that wonderful effect.

Thanks!

Regarding cutting 30 degrees: This is silly because I've been watching To Catch A Predator lately, but I noticed that they use the 30 degree rule in interviewing Hansen particularly when joining two takes (like if he made a mistake in one, or paused too long trying to think). I think it's good for both you and the interviewee to know that there's no pressure to do one perfect take (though it's obviously preferable).

However, no change in angle but wide change in zoom should look natural, though jarring. If the difference is big enough, it won't constitute a noticeable jump, it'll just be sudden. Perhaps preferred for the really intense or emotional parts (jumping into an extreme close shot).

Well folks, here is my first unedited clip. The key light is high and left of the axis, fill light is lower and right at about 1/3 the wattage of the key. Background/Back light is the same wattage as the fill light and is set on the floor shooting up. The clip was taken with an HV30 at HDV30pf from the close-shot camera and resolved down to 15pf in IMovie. My first impression is that it needs a bit more contrast and brightening. I'm curious how it looks on monitors other than my own. For some reason that I haven't discovered yet, the editing contrast/brightness controls in Imovie HD were not active (grayed out). This audio was fed by an ATR25 shotgun mike at about five feet from the subject. The other camera (which I haven't captured video from yet) was a bit to the left of this camera with a wider shot and connected to a lav mike. My main reason for posting the link here is to solicit comments on the lighting and any other critical thoughts. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to be creative here, I just want to capture good video and sound.

http://wgs.cc/doris/Xmascatclip.mov

Wayne: the mic has GOT to get in closer. Far too much "room noise". Get a lavaliere mic if you can or find a way to get the shotgun in closer. I'm hearing noise floor as well, which leads me to believe you are boosting audio somewhere meaning it didn't go to tape loud enough.

Eye lines: your subject should be looking JUST to the side of the camera. This subject is entirely in profile. The "rule" here is "if you can't see both eyes, it's unusable". You can see both of her eyes, but JUST barely.

Lighting. Subject should be either the brightest thing in frame or close. Work your lights in closer. She just isn't bright enough. As well, that should have the effect of "warming" her up slightly as well. Right now, she has very little colour and has taken on almost a grey pallor.

Composition in terms of frame weighting isn't bad.

Keep it up and thanks for "putting it out there" for comment and critique. Remember, anything you can learn from ISN'T criticism, it's constructive!