I have this posted on the AG HMC150 forum & asking for advice. Take a look if you have time. Thanks.
AG-HMC-150, XH-A1 or HDR FX-1000?

It depends! On so many things! You need to list your requirements firstly.

For example what kind of zoom do you require? will 12x do or do you need 20x?

Do you want to work with tape or AVCHD?

Do you need/want the pro/audio that comes with the Panasonic 150? The AVCHD is not see as a mature format by most pros and the softness some complain about with it can be a drawback, as well as the difficulty in working with the files, but again that can vary with the OS and NLE.

I have the FX1000 and am unhappy with a few things with it, but I would not switch to the Panny or Canon. On the other hand the Canon owners are almost fanatical in their love of their cams. The Canon is a really nice camera and you likely would be very happy with it, but again it depends on what you need from it. If you largely run auto you might be better of with the Sony.

You need to tell us your background and your intentions with the cam as well.

Thanks, Jeff
I plan on doing weddings & other events; possibly HS sports-football & basketball.
In the past I've owned a Sony TRV900 & Panasonic DVX100. Overall, the DVX was a much better camera; especially with low light @ weddings. I also had a Sony HVR-Z1 HDV which was a great camera overall, but poor in low light.
Overall, the FX1000s 20x zoom would be a + & the 1.5 LUX should be much better than the HVR-Z1s. The lack of XLRs isn't too much trouble because I still have a BeachTek XLR adapter used with my TRV900.
I think the future is in tapeless format. JVC have a new tapeless model that records in mpeg2 MOV, on CF I believe-not sure. As you pointed out, AVCHD is difficult to edit, but, so was HDV when it was new.

Well George, Mark Von Lanken is liking the Panasonic.

I hate to admit to being easily influenced by others, but in his case, his recommendation, especially for wedding gear, is worth an awful lot to me.

I can honestly say you'd be safe with that cam. It would be the first cam I would look at today if I were in the market for another.

I do not care for the prospect of AVCHD myself. That is the main issue with the cam for me. But there are others who like it.

You could go around and around with this question for weeks on this forum and get different opinions. My personal recommendation is the Panasonic for you. Mind you I shoot with the FX1000 and I do love it. But there are some really stupid little things about it I do not like. A stupid menu scroll wheell, the 20x zoom which I have learned the hard way has as many drawbacks as it does advantages (for me, anyway) and the fact you cannot open or close the LCD Screen if you have something mounted on the shoe mount. These are relatively minor issues, but again if Mark is liking the Pansonic after he's had it for a few weeks, that is worth something to me. Put that together with the silly design flaws of the FX1000 and I say that the Panny is worth a real good looking over.

Well George, Mark Von Lanken is liking the Panasonic.

I hate to admit to being easily influenced by others, but in his case, his recommendation, especially for wedding gear, is worth an awful lot to me.

I can honestly say you'd be safe with that cam. It would be the first cam I would look at today if I were in the market for another.

I do not care for the prospect of AVCHD myself. That is the main issue with the cam for me. But there are others who like it.

You could go around and around with this question for weeks on this forum and get different opinions. My personal recommendation is the Panasonic for you. Mind you I shoot with the FX1000 and I do love it. But there are some really stupid little things about it I do not like. A stupid menu scroll wheell, the 20x zoom which I have learned the hard way has as many drawbacks as it does advantages (for me, anyway) and the fact you cannot open or close the LCD Screen if you have something mounted on the shoe mount. These are relatively minor issues, but again if Mark is liking the Pansonic after he's had it for a few weeks, that is worth something to me. Put that together with the silly design flaws of the FX1000 and I say that the Panny is worth a real good looking over.

What got me interested in the HMC150 was the fact that I had a good experience with the DVX100. It had it's flaws, too (like being semi-automatic. Really screwed up some shots until I got used to it!). And, the HMC150 looks to be very similar in operation-but HD instead of SD. The real question is would it be good in low light. The early HDVs were not. The FX1000 had improved on that.
The HVR-Z1 had an extension for the shoe that added clearance for the screen. Didn't the FX1000 come with one?
Thanks again.

No it doesn't come with that. With your Panny background I'd say your are a shoe in for the 150. You know Panasonic. Your heart is with the Panasonic. Follow your heart on this one. You already know you want it.

It is excellent in low-light. Not to rush you, but I truly don't think you need to look much further. Order your cam.

I highly doubt, that once you come to terms with AVCHD files, you will be sorry.

George, I don't have any recent experience with any of the Canons. That stems from a couple of bad experiences I had with 2 different Canon camcorders a few years back. I realize that my bad experiences have no relevance when it comes to the new cameras. But it just kind of soured me on Canons. I can’t help it. I have used the Panasonic 100 and the 200. I thought the DVC-100 was a great SD camera but I still preferred the video, layout and operation of my VX2100. When I used the HVX200 I had the chance to do a head to head comparison to the video from my Sony HVR-V1U and my opinion was that the video from the V1 was cleaner and clearer. Not a very big difference but it was enough that it was obvious. Every videographer who had a chance to see the footage back to back had the same opinion. I don't expect the video out of the HMC-150 to be better than the HVX-200. Now, on the other hand, I have been playing with a friend’s FX1000 for a couple of days and the footage seems to be really good. I mean really good. No, it is not a perfect camcorder, however. For example the f-stop changes from 1.6 to 3.4 as you go through the zoom range. That is a significant change in exposure. But I have been living with that on my V1 (also a 20X zoom) so it isn't a big deal to me on the FX1000. That phenomenon is less obvious on cameras with only a 12X or 13X lenses, but they do it also, just to a lesser degree. In spite of that issue, the 20X lens is still pretty awesome. So I can live with that flaw. Also, I was disappointed to find out that the FX1000 doesn't do in-camera downconvert like its cousins. So if I use my friends FX1000, I will have to do it in post. But that is supposed to give better results anyway. I am still learning the intricacies of the white balance controls and the picture profiles but I think if someone learns how to use just some of the capabilities of the FX1000, you will have the ability to produce images that lesser cameras will be unable to match. And I agree with Jeff that the buttons and control wheel on the FX1000 are more of a hassle than other Sony camcorders. But I am learning them. And one last thought, I don’t care what new software comes down the road later, I am pretty convinced that AVCHD is not quite as good as HDV from the frame captures I have seen. But the bottom line is probably that there are no bad camcorders and you need to get what you think is best for you. Good luck with your choice, George.

....Also, I was disappointed to find out that the FX1000 doesn't do in-camera downconvert like its cousins...

Does anyone know if you can downconvert with the HDV-Z5? I am under the impression that you can do it.

Stelios

Lens ramping isn't a flaw Greg - it's almost a design necessity to get cameras designed and built that you're strong enough to lift and rich enough to pay for. You can have non-ramping zooms but they sure cost - go look at any DSLR lens line-up and have a look-see.

And of course these cameras downconvert HDV to DV.

Also - don't get too hung up on the low-light issue. What matters when you're making movies is what's between your ears, not what's between your palms.

tom.

And of course these cameras downconvert HDV to DV.

tom.

As I've learned Tom, both the FX1000 and Z5 downconvert, but the Z5 has more options to do so.

Ken, since I have a loaner FX1000, I didn't get a manual with it but I couldn't find "downconvert" anywhere in the menu. So what options do you have?

Here ya go Greg, check out page 79 where it explains it all.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRFX1000.pdf

Also - don't get too hung up on the low-light issue. What matters when you're making movies is what's between your ears, not what's between your palms.
tom.
Tom,
I respect that you are a knowledgeable guy, as most at this site are, but I'm not quite getting your meaning. LOL!
If I'm shooting the bride & groom doing their 1st dance on a very poorly lit dance floor, I need all the help the camera can give me. Too slow of shutter speed & I get motion blur; too fast & they're silhouettes at best. Certainly a camera that captures better in low light is a plus, isn't it; especially, when pricing is about the same?

George, I might be mistaken but I believe Tom is saying the differences in the cams we're discussing are so slight that in the end you'd be safe with any of them if you know how to operate the one you choose.

One of the highest priced videography outfits in Cincinnati uses cameras that are absolutely dreadful in low light (very old Panny's) I don't even know how they get by with them. However their technical skills are such that betweeen their shooting and editing skills they turn out amazing videos that command ridiculous prices.

That is why, no matter what camera you choose, the most important thing in the end is the shooter, not the camera.

The differences in low light betweent the Panasonic and the Sony is so slight it is absolutely insignificant.

Beautifully put Jeff. Couples have been dancing together in 'romantic' lighting for many years and we've been recording them on ancient tube cameras onwards. You can always get round an obstacle. Talk to the DJ, say how much you like shooting into his flashing lights.. Switch on your diffused camera light.. Do some slow shutter work.. Don't be afraid of that gain switch.

But don't think that changing from a Z1 to an EX1 is going to make your first dance sequence into a 'better film'. Only you can do that.

tom.

Jeff & Tom,
I'm a with you on all this; just a little slow!
In one of my 3 camera wedding productions we used a TRV900, AG-DVX100 & HVR-Z1. I admit, getting all three to match was a challenge but in the end no one could tell any difference in PQ in terms of color & brightness from 3 drastically different cameras. Vegas can preform miracles!
I'm looking for major differences & it doesn't sound like there's major differences; only slight. This make my decision all the simpler.
Thanks!
George

Think I asked this question the other day but I can't find where I posted it.

Anyone out there using the CF unit with the FX1000?

I am keen to know how well it works and just how quick it is to transfer from flash card> computer and start editing.(I use Edius 5)

This is huge for me as I am just over tape and its time consuming ways.

I am about to produce a low funded panel based Aussie Rules football show where I will film a 2 hour game and then need to go back through the game and get out about 10 minutes highlights of goals etc.

Typical game is 4X30 minute quarters so I am thinking of using 4X cards dedicated to each qtr.

Q. How long would 30 minutes take to download to a computer via a flash card.
Q. How does the CF unit fit onto the FX1000 and is it portable?
Q. Is it reliable as I assume it works via firewire?
Q. What are the files that it creates to the flash media?
Q. How much is it and the 16 or 32 flash cards?

Hello Martin. I have a Z7 with a MRC1 and I can answer some of your questions. I don't know how these prices would relate in Australia but B & H sells the compact flash unit for $885 USD. If your games are 4 - 30 minute segments an 8 gig card will record for about 36 minutes. But if it is anything like American football games, 30 minutes of play will last a whole lot more than 30 minutes and you might need 16 gig cards for each quarter, which will record for 72 minutes. I found some Transcend 16 gig - 300x cards for $150.00. With the kit, you get some mounting device to mount the MRC1 on the hot shoe of your camcorder and it would connect through the firewire port.

As for downloading. I use PP CS3 on a PC, quad core with 1TB hard drive just for video. I pull the card from the camera and put it in the media slot. I then copy the files to the video drive. That is a pretty quick process but to be honest I have not timed it yet. Then I open PP and import the files. After they are imported, PP then indexes and conforms the files. Import is practically instantaneous, but indexing and conforming takes a little time. As soon as the first file has been indexed and conformed, that file is ready and you could start working then, if you wanted to. And let the others process. My guess is that you could start working within 10 or 15 minutes on 30 minutes of video. But like I said, I haven't really timed it, but it seems really quick. I usually let everything finish before I will start working on any of it.

Martin, I hope this helps. So far, I am really enjoying the MRC1. Being a died in the wool tape guy, I didn't know if I would use it a lot but I am pretty happy with it and I can see my tape purchases really dropping.

Thanks Greg on the info re CF unit it certainly sounds the way to go. I am so over tapes!

What about reliability? Tapes can get drop outs and head clog what about issues with the Flash cards?

Gee I would think anyone who films alot like I do then this would be a must.

In Nov/Dec I film around 10 dance concerts dual camera and so you are looking at anywhere from 3> 5 hours per camera.

Do 2 concerts a weekend and that is upwards of 20 hours down load.

Did you consider the hard drive option that also mounts on top of the camera? I take along a lap top at the minute but it means more gear and starting up windows and Edius etc etc....

Then there is audio to think about, the headset system we use, tripod position, is my B cameraman off the pot ....etc etc.

Hard business this video caper. Anything that saves time is a must do!!!!!!

Martin , you may want to look at the Edirol F1 as these can be synced together for multicam, record two extra channels of audio( from mixing board etc) and use removable hard drives with NTFS files so no FAT32 file limit and direct use for editing. I don't have any personal experience and they are not cheap either. You could simultaneously record to tape for archive just like you would do for the flash unit.
F-1 Video Field Recorder (http://www.edirol.com/index.php/en/products-mainmenu-421/field-recording-mainmenu-390/341-f-1-video-field-recorder)

Ron Evans

I have not had this system long enough to say anything about it's reliability. But I have been using CF cards with my still cameras for several years and I have never had a single issue. For a while there, I was taking 3000+ photos per day, so they were getting tested somewhat.

Martin,

This place has the best price for the HVR-MRC1K. I searched all over the internet and this was the absolute best price as of January 15.

Sony HVRMRC1K Memory Recording Unit | Full Compass (http://www.fullcompass.com/product/362140.html)

They are also a very reliable and honest company. I have done business with them before.

You can see the instruction manual here

http://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/10326-Sony%20HVRMRC1K.pdf

Adam, how reputable is this place for purchasing the Z5U?

Full Compass is very reputable. It is very odd to me they have such a low price, they used to have higher prices for everything.

They are a brick and mortar store that has gradually built up their online operations over the years.

I just have one question about this HVR-MRC1K recording unit. Do they come in PAL and NTSC versions or versions do not matter?

"Edit" In other words can this unit work on a PAL and an NTSC camera?


Stelios

Ken,

Full Compass is very reputable. I didn't buy a Z5U from them so I can't speak about that directly.

But what I did buy in the past from them, they were very reputable, thorough and security conscious. I would definitely recommend them.


Stelios, I don't know. You might ask Sony about that. I would think it would depend on the video camera itself and not the HVR-MRC1K.

I agree with Adam. I would doubt that there is a PAL or NTSC version. I think it just records whatever is coming out of your firewire connection.

Thanks Adam & Jeff. I have to call them on Monday to see what their prices on since they don't quote the Z5 price in their add. I'm betting they won't be lower than B&H though.

Anyone hear of this place?

Sony HVR-Z5U HDV 1080p/24p Camcorder HVRZ5U (http://www.zoommania.com/descript.asp?prodid=HVRZ5U)

Yes. Check their ratings on the web. Probably the worst-reviewed reseller in history. Stick with B&H.

Thanks Adam. I'm trying to find who I can buy these units from that are out of town so that I can avoid the big tax hit. B&H is in my local area.

One reseller is Calumet Photo that seems to have a good rating.

Thanks Adam. I'm trying to find who I can buy these units from that are out of town so that I can avoid the big tax hit. B&H is in my local area.

One reseller is Calumet Photo that seems to have a good rating.

Go with Full Compass, as was said. They are very reliable and great to work with.

I just need to see what their price is. Calumet at least has the same price as B&H.

I don't trust any place that won't list their price online and makes you call them. What are they hiding?

Yeah Adam, I agree. But I'll let you know what I found out tomorrow. If it didn't have a good reseller rating, I'd stop here.

If you are talking about Full Compass they do not list all of their prices online. They cannot compete strictly on price all of the time, and they try to sell you on the service aspect of their business by encouraging people to call for prices. While I'm not sure if that is who you are referring to Adam, Full Compass is very reputable and is an authorized dealer for for all of the products they sell.

Companies that compete on aspects other than price do the same. In my case they are not companies that I can usually afford to deal with. When you make initial contact with Full Compass you are assigned an account manager. When you do business with them it is their intention to develop a relationship with you.

This may all be true, and even if it isn't I'm sure they want you to believe it is. But I've never viewed B&H as competing on price; their prices are rarely the lowest but I buy exclusively from them because I know I will get what I ordered, at the price I ordered, quickly and with a minimum of fuss. I don't need an "account manager" to quote me a price or take my order, and making me call them up just to get a quote is creating more work for me, not less. I don't need to build a relationship with the guy who's going to slap a shipping sticker on the box he's putting on the UPS truck.

Besides, the place to get unbiased info and friendly advice is right here, no? You certainly aren't going to make big financial decisions based on the advice from someone who has something to gain directly from the money you spend and whose compensation structure is unknown to you.

I know it sounds like I am shilling for B&H but honestly I have no dog in this fight. But the Internet is rife with tales of how people get sucked into buying useless overpriced accessories on the phone or, worse, get abused and hassled if suddenly they don't buy the "upgraded" version of what they want.

If a retailer can't take the time or doesn't care to give me all the info I need online, I just move on.

Having an account at Full Compass myself, I can assure they do not pressure or bait and switch, which is what you are referring to.

They have been in business as long as B&H and have a sterling reputation.

It should not be insinuated that a company has something to hide simply because you do not understand how they operate.

If you have not dealt with them or have even second-hand knowledge of dealings with them don't bad mouth them or imply negatives in a public forum.

Companies and individuals spend years building their reputations, and it dumbfounds me how quickly people will judge or throw stuff out in a public forum without having firsthand knowledge of what they speak.

Ken,

I wouldn't deal with them (Zoomania).

Check this out

Zoommania - store.yahoo.com - Reviews, Ratings and Prices at ResellerRatings (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Zoommania)

That web-site Store Ratings and Reviews by Real People - Trusted Online Shopping (http://www.resellerratings.com/) can tell you a lot about companies.

Calumet is very good. Full Compass is very good. I think Full Compass is a little higher on the price of the Z5U.

Also Adorama Camera has a good price and I have bought many things from them in the past. However, they are in your area.

Digital cameras, all other cameras and everything photographic from Adorama Camera (http://www.adorama.com/Search-Results.tpl?page=searchresults&searchinfo=z5U)

Also buydig.com but I never dealt with them. They have a decent rating on Reseller Ratings

BuyDig.Com - buydig.com - Reviews, Ratings and Prices at ResellerRatings (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/BuyDig_Beachtr)

BuyDig.com,The Internet's Digital Superstore (http://www.buydig.com/shop/SearchResults.aspx?cti=&scs=true&kwd=hvr-z5u&x=0&y=0)

Another option you can do is have it shipped to somebody in a neighboring state and then have it shipped to you. That way you would avoid paying tax on a $4000 video camera.

Also check this

hvr-z5u - Google Product Search (http://www.google.com/products?q=hvr-z5u&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en)

Adam, thanks much! That's very useful info and I do appreciate it. I've never heard of some of these guys. I've bought a lot of stuff from B&H, but when it comes to a $4,000 cam, you'd like to save on the tax.

Adam, thanks much! That's very useful info and I do appreciate it. I've never heard of some of these guys. I've bought a lot of stuff from B&H, but when it comes to a $4,000 cam, you'd like to save on the tax.

Ship it to me :-) I live 15 min away from B&H but in NJ. Then come over same day and pick it up. Hit me up with PM and I'll help you out.

That's a great idea.

It should not be insinuated that a company has something to hide simply because you do not understand how they operate.

If you have not dealt with them or have even second-hand knowledge of dealings with them don't bad mouth them or imply negatives in a public forum.
Jeez, Jeff, chill. No one attacked you or your preferred vendor. I was just speaking generally. And you shouldn't assume someone doesn't "understand" something just because they follow a different buying paradigm.

For the record, I meant no disrespect to Full Compass or anyone who chooses to buy there. I was just sharing why it wasn't right for me.

Ken,

Here's another 2 pages with a lot of good info on prices, reviews and blogs.

hvr-z5u shopping (http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=hvr-z5u&rt=os)

and hvr-z5u reviews & articles (http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=hvr-z5u&rt=oa)

As a long-term Z1 owner I remember seeing the Z7 for the first time a year ago and feeling rather underwhelmed, strangely. The EX1 was something else - a great leap forward, but the Z7 just seemed a bit so-so really.

Why would one move from the Z1 to an uglier 7? Interchangeable lenses for sure, but where were they - and most importantly, where was the wide-wideangle? It still had 1"/3 chips, the lens wasn't appreciably longer and it seemed a bit of a sideways step to me.

Then along came the Z5 and Sony's plan becomes clearer. It seems to be the rightful Z1 replacement with real step-up attributes (CF writer, 20x zoom, three NDs and so on). Shame it has CMOS for us wedding and event shooters, but hey, two steps forward and half a step back isn't too bad.

I wonder what Sony's sales figures say about the Z5 and Z7? Obviously the Z7 had a good head start, but did other Z1 owners feel as I did, that it wasn't the replacement for them?

tom.

Ship it to me :-) I live 15 min away from B&H but in NJ. Then come over same day and pick it up. Hit me up with PM and I'll help you out.

Thanks very much for the offer Lukas, but I have a sister-in-law who lives in N.J. and I can always send it there. But again thanks for the offer.

Ken,

Here's another 2 pages with a lot of good info on prices, reviews and blogs.

hvr-z5u shopping (http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=hvr-z5u&rt=os)

and hvr-z5u reviews & articles (http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=hvr-z5u&rt=oa)

Thanks again Adam. It's funny how when you call up the prices on the Z5U for some of these links, it gives you the prices for the Z1U when you go to the store's site.

Thanks very much for the offer Lukas, but I have a sister-in-law who lives in N.J. and I can always send it there. But again thanks for the offer.

Not a problem.

I just realized that to avoid tax you would have to put NJ in billing adress as well. Am I Right? Can someone verify it?

I think it is only based on the shipping address, not the billing address.

Tom, I tend to agree with your thoughts on the Z7U. Also, how many people can afford to be different lenses for the Z7U ? They are expensive, so to me, that would defeat the purpose of even buying a Z7U.