Hey all,

From time to time, we see threads bemoaning the fact that video isn't taken seriously, that the Uncle Tom's out there are giving the product a bad rap, that things have changed and brides should value it because it's improved so much.

Well...today I visited a wedding show here in Montreal, one of the two big ones held here each year. It's not small, you can see the list of exhibitors here:

List of Exhibitors & Web Sites - Le Salon de la Mariée 2009 (http://www.lesalondelamariee.com/list-of-exhibitors-and-web-sites-2.asp)

I took a quick walk around. I took a look at maybe 5 videographers showing demos. Of those five, four of them were showing videos shot in 4:3, but stretched to fill a 16:9 wide tv. So they spent hundreds of dollars to spend two days showing videos of fat people.

The fifth managed to use the correct aspect ratio, but had a video full of spinning picture-in-pictures, swirling ttransisitons, etc.

I tell you, on the one hand, it was embarrassing. On the other hand, I thought, hey, this is the competition. At least I can get my aspect ratios right, whatever my other faults are.

Sigh...

So they spent hundreds of dollars to spend two days showing videos of fat people.

Maybe they got the aspect right and everyone was eating too much poutine... Je ne sais pas...

the last show here (Auckland, New Zealand) there were 5 videographer. 3 of them showing demo on CRT Mon and 1 of them using a 24" LCD Mon with wrong ratio. We are the only studio showing demo in HD on a 40" LCD TV.

However, we are getting similar number of business...

I guess people didn't really notice that....

Many people dont notice, they notice one thing £ or $

Many people dont notice, they notice one thing £ or $


I have seen this too. 7 or 8 years ago people used to stand and watch my samples for up to 10-15 minutes, but lately most brides don't even watch for 2 full minutes. Many are happy with a brochure and a few short questions answered (none of which are "do you shoot in HD?")
Fortunately, this is not effecting business, as this is going to be my best year in a long time. Unfortunately, the secret of this years success....LOW LOW PRICES!

I found the opposite to be true this year. We showed our demo film on a 50" Plasma screen and focused on delivering a truly romantic story in our editing. Not one person asked about HD but we have almost tripled our business and our prices increased by $1000 bucks. One thing that someone said to me really stood out and that was can you visually see a difference between you and your competition. I took that to heart and think that at the show we were so visually different it has allowed us to higher our prices and be successful at it.

I tell you, on the one hand, it was embarrassing. On the other hand, I thought, hey, this is the competition. At least I can get my aspect ratios right, whatever my other faults are.

Sigh...

Unfortunately, that is a direct result of the democratization of videography that makes the equipment accessible to anyone. However, as we all kinow, its not because Joe Sixpack owns a camcorder and a pirated copy of Final Cut that he knows what he's doing. So everyone thinks (s)he can do better. We've all seen the mixed results.

In the past 6 months I decided to try (healf-heartedly) to recoup my investment in filmmaking equipment by offering services to the public at large. I was approached to do a broadcast-quality recording of a press conference for a theater company, and the client decided to go with friends who offered to do it for free (the go-between, who knew just enough about videography, sounded obviously distressed by this turn of event when she gave me the bad news). Another couple asked me about taping their engagement party (I posted about this on this board) but never replied to my questions about the venue, probably thinking it was more complicated than it was worth.

It's kind of a lose/lose situation: people who don't know enough think they can just point and shoot; people who know better, well, can probably do it themselves reasonably well. You can only hope for people who know the value of a professional.


J.

I can fully understand why wedding videography has such a bad name.. I'm getting married in August and this weekend when we were looking at videographers in the area, I would say only 2 or 3 videographers out of 15 produced "good" work.. everything else ranged from poor to laughable..

Hi Yang,

I can fully understand why wedding videography has such a bad name.. I'm getting married in August and this weekend when we were looking at videographers in the area, I would say only 2 or 3 videographers out of 15 produced "good" work.. everything else ranged from poor to laughable..

If you're still looking I've got a few open weekends in August. Even if you just need a shooter I'd be happy to turn over the tapes...

I guess the Uncle Toms will always be there but you have to hope that the great work done by the pros (like on this site) raise the bar in the eyes of our clients. Our local newspaper had a special Bridal insert last weekend. I was dismayed to read an article entitled "How to save money on your Wedding" One of the tips was, "skip the video". Just another indicator of the perception out there - Arghhhh....

However, as we all kinow, its not because Joe Sixpack owns a camcorder and a pirated copy of Final Cut that he knows what he's doing.

I agree, Jacques, but I was dismayed because the videographers at the show are not Joe Sixpack. They are supposedly my peers, other professional videographers who are serious enough to actually go to the trouble and expense of doing a wedding show.

I have a long way to go in my own work, and try to improve all the time, but, God, it was amateur hour!

I guess the Uncle Toms will always be there but you have to hope that the great work done by the pros (like on this site) raise the bar in the eyes of our clients. Our local newspaper had a special Bridal insert last weekend. I was dismayed to read an article entitled "How to save money on your Wedding" One of the tips was, "skip the video". Just another indicator of the perception out there - Arghhhh....

I just came back from my customer. I dropped their DVD off. And what I found out? That their photog was a total amateur and their photos are useless - they can't even show them to the friends. They were happy they had at least professional video guy, so there is video to show to their family. But I remember them when they were signing contract - trying to save money on everything.

I believe ppl do not realize how much they are missing by not having a video from their D-Day :-) They don't understand that they will be so busy that day and they won't even remember a half of what has happened. Many couples are telling me after they watched the dvd that they didn't know about some of the stuff.

Photo's are great for frames and albums - but only video can capture the drama of that day.

Lukas... Great comment on a really interesting point. I have a similar story but it starts in a different place.

I never wanted to shoot a wedding. Me married and divorced three times... I think you can figure it out. However, a friend asked if I'd shoot their wedding and since he's a friend I spend a fair amount of time here and elsewhere to figure out how to give him the best coverage I could.

Turns out the B&G liked the video better than the still pix that they paid more for. Photog was friend of the bride and me, friend of groom. My guess is that I'm a perfectionist and some of that came through in the final product.

My only conclusion from all of this talk is that all one can do is to fly as high as one can, that way you can look down on all the turkeys.

Hey all,

From time to time, we see threads bemoaning the fact that video isn't taken seriously, that the Uncle Tom's out there are giving the product a bad rap, that things have changed and brides should value it because it's improved so much.

Well...today I visited a wedding show here in Montreal, one of the two big ones held here each year. It's not small, you can see the list of exhibitors here:

List of Exhibitors & Web Sites - Le Salon de la Mariée 2009 (http://www.lesalondelamariee.com/list-of-exhibitors-and-web-sites-2.asp)

I took a quick walk around. I took a look at maybe 5 videographers showing demos. Of those five, four of them were showing videos shot in 4:3, but stretched to fill a 16:9 wide tv. So they spent hundreds of dollars to spend two days showing videos of fat people.

The fifth managed to use the correct aspect ratio, but had a video full of spinning picture-in-pictures, swirling ttransisitons, etc.

I tell you, on the one hand, it was embarrassing. On the other hand, I thought, hey, this is the competition. At least I can get my aspect ratios right, whatever my other faults are.

Sigh...

Vito:

This is exactly why you need to step up your marketing to planners and show them the good stuff. Even in your area if there are 3 or 4 of you that produce stunning work, put together a workshop for the planners and let them invite other people. Aligning yourself, not in a butt kissing way, but more toward an educational angle is how you begin the process of getting your work out there to the right people. Find some photographers that you honestly admire and build your reputation from those 2 bases. There is a lot of poor quality work out there but keep in mind, there is poor work in photography and other wedding related businesses. Look at the top vendors in your area in every category and see if you can find out why they are successful.

It is discouraging to see poor videography but some of us, you included, understand that we are at a threshold in the industry. A transition from "Videography" to more of a "Filmmaker" or "Cinematographer".

Good comments, John. Thanks...

Hi Yang,

If you're still looking I've got a few open weekends in August. Even if you just need a shooter I'd be happy to turn over the tapes...

YANG..... TAKE THIS OFFER!!!!!! Joel does fantastic work. Check his web site if you don't believe me.

YANG..... TAKE THIS OFFER!!!!!! Joel does fantastic work. Check his web site if you don't believe me.

No doubt! already contacted him offline and it won't work out due to travel involved..

I did a bridal show a couple years back and got a call from a lady who loved my demo. She said she and her daughter were on the floor LAUGHING at how bad the others were... then plopped mine in (can you plop in a DVD?) and were floored. They loved it.

Not saying my demo was great... but they didn't fall over laughing. So I guess that's good! Didn't book her though, go figure! But it was nice to know that the quality of work was appreciated. Would have been more appreciated with a booking, but what can you do?

Recently a lady I work with went to some bridal shows and brought me some sample DVDs of other area video guys. I got to sit down and watch them... and lo and behold... THEY ARE GARBAGE! I'm not trying to say I'm great by any means, but if there's one thing I've learned...

RARELY do people know crap when they see it, nor do they care if you shoot HD or VHS! They see $ and they see themselves on TV.

The nice thing about capitalism & technology is that prices remain low so almost anybody can afford a good camera and NLE system.

The bad side to it is that almost everybody is getting a good camera and NLE system...

Let us delve deeply into the subconcious of the client. I think growing up in a world of home movies being shaky super 8, grainy VHS, and so on, people associate the realness of being there with bad quality looking video. If you make something look like a "movie" they almost seperate themselves from it and it doesn't feel so "real". As the kids that grew up with digital video and iMovie move into marrying age then you'll see an expectation of better quality videos. I'm just speculating but the glory of video for many is just to be able to see themselves dressed up on TV.

No doubt! already contacted him offline and it won't work out due to travel involved..

Hi Yang,

Don't tell me that you are going to let a couple hundred miles keep you from getting Joel P. If I were getting married, he would be on my short list, and he's 800 miles from me. You have one chance to get this right. If you can find someone locally who you like better, well then I understand, but this is too big of a gig to let the distance stand in the way.

They see $ and they see themselves on TV.


so ture. I've notice when the couple watching the video, they like to point who's and who's is on camera...funny....

I think growing up in a world of home movies being shaky super 8, grainy VHS, and so on, people associate the realness of being there with bad quality looking video.

True, and I can see why that makes wedding videos shot on Super 8 to be a draw. But wrong aspect ratios? Spinning cubes?

I didn't grow up with that on my home movies.

You make some salient points, however. I tend to agree with you that expectations will change.

Hi Yang,

Don't tell me that you are going to let a couple hundred miles keep you from getting Joel P. If I were getting married, he would be on my short list, and he's 800 miles from me. You have one chance to get this right. If you can find someone locally who you like better, well then I understand, but this is too big of a gig to let the distance stand in the way.

Mark, my wedding is in Detroit. ;) I would love to talk to Joel about shooting my wedding but I guess he doesn't travel that far.

Mark, my wedding is in Detroit. ;) I would love to talk to Joel about shooting my wedding but I guess he doesn't travel that far.

Hi Yang,

Okay, I'll cut you some slack.

So I guess the moral here is there are two ways to go:

- Become a service oriented business and give the clients a decent product at a lower more affordable price

- Stick to your artistic guns and do your thing for less clients

It's juuuuust that easy.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

Like any sensible businessman I have checked out the work of every rival in the area. Checked their websites, ordered samples, watched tham and fear nothing. In fact I know I am head and shoulders better. So I am completely confident.

However, don't underestimate the pleb bride. She might be from plebsville and likes cheesy music, plebby pink balloon transitions, out of focus filming of the speeches and worse.

If she didn't my rivals would never get any work!!!!!
:)

- Stick to your artistic guns and do your thing for less clients


I'll let you know how this works out. We haven't officially posted it on our website yet, but we're raising our current prices roughly 70% for 2010. Either I go broke or we start getting paid better for doing good work.

We arrived at those prices by settling on what we felt should be our per hour fee for shooting, editing, graphic design, planning, digitizing of material (half editing fee), then estimated the hours we put into a project both for shooting (x2) and everything else and came up with a figure for what a wedding should cost. Then I divided that hugely expensive number by roughly 1/3 (wedding shooter discount) and arrived at more or less the new prices.

So when you figure up what the new prices will be, think to yourself that it should be 66.66% more than that if we were billing these things out per hour like real production companies do.

Hi Yang,

Okay, I'll cut you some slack.

Thank you for the nice words Mark! I am looking for some 'shoot only' gigs as my season is pretty full as it is. I can see that I already have enough editing to last me to this time next year. It just happens that Yang's wedding is a in Detroit and I'm heading out of town the day after his event. I was hoping to do something closer to home that day. Detroit would be a stretch. Michigan has some great videographers. Lee Thomas, Ryan Koral and Don Pham come to mind, and I'm sure there are many more.

Not that my current strategy is really proven yet, but I cut my prices by taking my time out of packages and I booked up faster than ever. I set it up so my hourly rate is the same, but I need to shoot more events to make the same amount. I'm happy to be working during the downturn while building up my referral base. When the economy improves I'll be in a far better position than if I had fewer gigs at a higher amount per job.

I'll let you know how this works out. We haven't officially posted it on our website yet, but we're raising our current prices roughly 70% for 2010. Either I go broke or we start getting paid better for doing good work.

We arrived at those prices by settling on what we felt should be our per hour fee for shooting, editing, graphic design, planning, digitizing of material (half editing fee), then estimated the hours we put into a project both for shooting (x2) and everything else and came up with a figure for what a wedding should cost. Then I divided that hugely expensive number by roughly 1/3 (wedding shooter discount) and arrived at more or less the new prices.

So when you figure up what the new prices will be, think to yourself that it should be 66.66% more than that if we were billing these things out per hour like real production companies do.