View Full Version : Siegel_Return of the White Birds_UWOLLongform


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Geir Inge
August 22nd, 2009, 04:12 AM
Hi Steve.

Well we got similar locations in this contest, I think.
Different approaches though, and that's not so bad :)
I think you cover more species than I and also some species not seen at Runde island.
The puffins for instance. I've got one kind of puffins, you've got 3 and they are just wonderful to watch. The flight at sea, I think it's The Little Auk, or Dovekie (Alle alle). It's awesome. May I ask how you got such a smooth and fine shot? Because I guess it's in a boat out on the open sea?
One more question, about filming in rough sea. What do you use to protect your camera from the salty sea water? I think this is quite a problem at times. Even when it's almost calm, there's always some salt sea water in the air.
Ok, that's all for now.

All the best.
Geir Inge

Steve Siegel
August 22nd, 2009, 11:15 AM
Hi Geir,
I agree with you. Shooting from a boat, even in calm seas, is almost impossible. I never do it, partly because, like you, I am afraid of salt damage to the equipment. These shots were made on a tripod at the edge of the nesting cliff. The birds fly by all day quite close in, and at elevations that make it look like you are close to the water.

Chris Swanberg
August 22nd, 2009, 07:40 PM
Steve...

This was a very watchable film - both from an interest perepctive and a leanring one as well. I watched it several times... first from a filming perspective... and felt the images were well captured, crisp and nice.

The editing was instrictive. It felt as if there never was an edit, just a flowing story. This film is one I will save and watch as I progress in my craft.

Having just struggled with sound (4 channels to mix and meld together) I listened once without a picture... just to listen to the mix. I thought it was perfect... save one minor time when the music peaked and competed with your excellent VO.

This competes with broadcast stuff easily.

I agree with Cat that throwing in some wider shots might have been relieving, but as it was I think this was a stellar production - and, is the case with so many other more advanced film-makers here displaying their talents, one I will continue to learn from.

Masterfully done.

Chris Swanberg

ps. Your VO script was delightful by the way. I'd enjoy hearing about how you put it together.

Bryce Comer
August 23rd, 2009, 09:10 AM
Hi Steve,
Wow what a beautiful piece. As others have already said, your VO was fantastic, & the shots you had following the birds in flight were awesome. I agree that the wing snap is a problem, but as you have said, unless you can expose it properly without going to a higher shutter speed this will always be a problem.
I can't wait to see your next installment this is really getting exciting to see all these films coming together like they are!
Bryce

Marj Atkins
September 10th, 2009, 02:10 AM
Steve I was so engaged by your story that I didn’t notice the mistakes - so just as well there are others here who are more observant!

You have a delightful turn of phrase and have managed to turn what is really just a pageant of birds into something quite spectacular.

Oh - and what a pageant! I don’t think we have seen on Uwol such an amazing collection of birds from one place at one time as here - we are so privileged to be able to see this and I am sure it must have been the experience of a lifetime for you.

This film is working out really well.

Steve Siegel
October 13th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Well, here is the last round. My story line is still a bit loose, but the nature of the material, and the fact that it was drawn from places thousands of miles from each other are not conducive to tight story telling. So I just went with the flow and had fun with it. I changed the name of the piece to “Miles To Go Before They Sleep”, twisting a line from a favorite poem by Robert Frost.
This fourth installment is an attempt to summarize the whole video in 5 minutes, and hopefully to keep everyone’s interest. I apologize for the fact that it is in a 4:3 format. I am still struggling with finding codecs that will allow combination of 16:9 HD footage and audio that will play, in a PC environment with files that don’t take hours to upload. Vimeo compresses everything to 4:3, and there is a deadline, so…
Anyway, here is a link.

Miles To Go Before They Sleep on Vimeo

Catherine Russell
October 13th, 2009, 09:29 PM
Steve:

I think you are so very talented. You are a natural for narrating, not only in your voice but how you say things. It just flows and is always interesting. Then comes your filming and all that you have been able to knit and weave into your subject matter. I think it is very difficult to cover so much ground, both physically and topically and make it all seem like a natural fit. But this is what you so aptly do. You and Chris both have done well with the Ken Burns effect with stills. This is quite an entry.

Cat

Steve Siegel
October 16th, 2009, 06:00 PM
Here is the video in its proper 16:9 format.
Miles To Go Before They Sleep on Vimeo

Finn-Erik Faale
October 19th, 2009, 01:41 PM
Steve,
Your long form #4 is a pleasure to see. I am fascinated by the swans flying in slow motion. Scenes of flying birds against colored skies are attractive.
The "Ken Burns" are also well done.
You have great material for the final long form video.

Mike Sims
October 19th, 2009, 06:06 PM
Steve- I like the new title. I think you’ve come up with a good formula for weaving the segments into an interesting story line. I can’t wait to watch the finished piece next month. Good luck!

Marj Atkins
October 21st, 2009, 07:27 AM
Steve this is absolutely beautiful.
Your shots are amazing - especially your birds in flight - from the spectacle of the snow geese and swans, to the birds in Alaska, to the hawk hovering in its search for prey. How do you do that? - Lots of practice I should think, or do you just have a natural talent for following a moving target in your scope?
Your story has good structure - very good idea you have of ending this film with ‘camouflage’, especially for the reasons you give.
Your skies and landscapes are breathtaking - beautiful colours and pans.
The sound that accompanies this is clear - nice balance between music and ambient sound.
Judging by these examples, you have done a very good job using the Ken Burns effect for your photographs and artworks. The pans are slow and steady.
I had to smile when I heard to your final sentence. Boy has this challenge been a learning curve - although, despite all the difficulties - one I do not regret.
I cannot wait to see your final film! Oh and that one-in-a-million shot - now I am hoping that, above all others, you’ll get that one - with all your talent I am very confident you can do it!!!!!
Well done.
Marj

Dale Guthormsen
October 22nd, 2009, 03:23 PM
Steve,

you have a fantastic array of wildlife and your story will be awesome when finished !!!


I must chuckle about the lawn chair thing!! Here we have a specticle of 1 to 1.5 million geese coming off a bit of water a few miles from here. In the fall on nice evenings sheila and I have often gone out, pulled the folding chairs out and watched the geese go out ofr the evening feed, or watched them return the odd time if the sunset was going to be awesome. The sound of fall geese is music for the soul, I shoot hours of video of them every fall.

Looking forward to next month.

Steve Siegel
October 22nd, 2009, 03:26 PM
Dale,
You're lucky to have them so close to home. How's your leg?

Steve

Dale Guthormsen
October 22nd, 2009, 03:49 PM
Steve,

I am without cane and hobbling around. I have to more or less walk on flatter surfaces. Tried a hillside yesterday, mistake! I still have to take pain killers to sleep at night, its been three weeks today. I may not get what i need to finish the longform or uwol 15, I am trying however. I need a helper and may have found someone to help this next week.

Mat Thompson
October 22nd, 2009, 04:09 PM
FAB !

I think your Phase 4 piece explaining your overall structure is interesting in itself so I'm think the actual piece should be fab indeed!

I like the idea for the structuring and I really like the historical 'human back story' as the onlookers to these events. Great footage, nice story and some good cutting! Get this right and I think your going to have a great finished piece of work fella! - One point I know has been raised previously some of the flight has too higher shutter and is very snappy.

:-)

Steve Siegel
October 23rd, 2009, 04:18 PM
Mat,
I have been trying for the longest time to reduce what you call "snappiness" in my footage. The bottom line is that I can't do it. The common wisdom seems to be that the defect comes from too high a shutter speed. Let's dissect that hypothesis for a moment.
At a shutter speed of 1/60th sec, the camera lets the eye see the moving wing for a long time. Granted, it's blurry, but the eye doesn't seem to mind. At higher speeds (1/300th or more) the camera lets the eye in on smaller amounts of motion that the eye normally cannot sense. These little packages of motion are individually presented to us by the camera only 30 times a second. 1/300th second of movement shown every 1/30th of a second. The eye can handle that. It can see the packets, but our brains can't interpret them, so what we perceive is extra wings. I think this is what you are calling "snap". By viewing frame by frame, it is evident that these wings are not ghosting artifacts. Each frame shows a bird with only two sharply focused wings. Here are the solutions I have come up with and why each of them is not wholly satisfactory.
1. Shoot at 1/100th or below. When run at real-time speeds, you still see extra wings.
This also requires increasing the f-stop, which with Canon lenses seriously compromises sharp focus. Per Johan has noticed the same problem. And what if you need to export a still?
2. Add ND filters instead of changing f-stop. Extra glass also affects the image, adds spots to pans, decreases ability to be ready for rapid changes in lighting, etc.
3. Edit everything into slow motion. This usually works, but do you really want everything to be in slo-mo. What ever happened to leaving nature as it is?
So the bottom line is that my footage is going to have snap. Next time you see a black bird flying away from you against a blue sky, look carefully. You will see four wings.
Snap is not unnatural.

Mat Thompson
October 23rd, 2009, 05:48 PM
Hi Steve
You seem like you've tested and looked at this a lot but I'll try and respond anyway.

"At higher speeds (1/300th or more) the camera lets the eye in on smaller amounts of motion that the eye normally cannot sense."

IMO - If the frame rate is the same you won't see any more detail in the motion you will simply get less motion blur. In fast flight 25/30 fps is simply not enough too catch enough wing beats so we rely on the motion blur to blend the frames into nice movement. In my experience shooting a bird flight at 1/50th (25fps) gets very mushy but cranked up beyond 120th you get snapping/stobing (whatever you want to call it). I have found around 1/80-1/100 to be good if I'm not slowing down although if slowing down and using frame blending this can be pushed further.

Are you shooting true progressive. Examples of this issue seem to be worse with interlaced source !?

Steve Siegel
October 24th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Mat,
Yes, I've tried everything. You bring up a fact that I didn't recognise as a potential problem. Indeed, the Canon XLH-1 does not offer real progressive mode, but something they call "30F" which is "almost indistinguishable from 30P". Frame blend in Adobe Premiere
creates visible ghosts that make the footage even worse. I always disable it.
I often have to export a still, and if it comes down to "mushy" vs "snappy", I'll have to err on the side of snap.

Chris Swanberg
October 25th, 2009, 12:58 AM
Steve.... your entry could almost be called a "making of" and it was delightfully mesmerizing. I really like your voice for narrating as well as your choice of words... Very pleasant to listen to and the pacing is slow and easy.

I know exactly how you feel about using photographs and attempting to do what Ken Burns has done so well - making them more than a slide show - I discovered it is not always quite so easy. I think you and I probably have advanced that section of our skillsets mutually.

As I watch yours, and more or less the rest of the entries as we work towards the submission deadline, I realize that I probably jumped in the deep end of the pool when I had more wading yet to do, but the process of making my own, and especially watching others, such as yourself, and seeing the results has been better than any film school could have been for me.

Magnificent work. Thanks for the continuing education.

Chris

Steve Siegel
October 25th, 2009, 07:49 AM
Hi Chris,
You're not alone in the deep end of the learning pool. Just yesterday I figured out some details about exporting by watching Mat's video that caused me to have to reassemble the whole piece. It will take a week, which is all the time I have. We're all in this learning thing together.

Bob Safay
October 25th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Steve, what a beautifuly narrated piece. You voice is fantastic and the story line is so moving. You are a natural born storyteller. I especially liked one of the opening shots where you tracked the geese through the mist. Also, I liked the way you incorporated the stills. I have done that in a lot of the stuff I shoot and really like the effect. However, I must say that my stills never came out as well as yours. Ithe panning and zooming on them was very well done. I pity whoever has to judge these entriers. Again, great job. Bob