Hi everyone,

So I dump my commentary (under one hour and 50 minutes) to a quicktime movie and re-import the 300 mb file back in. I go to compress it (3.0 mbps) and it's telling me it will be a 3.8 gb file. Huh? Is this based on how long it is, or what? Will it actually end up being that large? My movie is going to be 3.8 gb, so the commentary, doc, alternative scene and trailer need to be 400 mb total...

HELP!

heath

As I said in the other post I'm not sure what you're trying to do. You shouldn't ever make a QT movie from the timeline.

If you need audio just file>export>QT but then under options choose wav. Run that wav file through A.Pack to get your AC-3. If you need mpeg-2 then(render the timeline) file>export>QT and under options choose mpeg-2 and set your settings. Take those files into dvdsp and you're off and running.

Even if you do use a 3rd party encoder(BitVice, Compessor, Procoder etc) then export a FCPro ref movie and encode that but dont export a mov if you can help it.

Jake

So, does it need to be mpeg2, the audio? Also, can the commentary be 32 khz instead of 48, like the movie?

heath

Ok well just to confirm what you are going to do.

As I understand it, or how I would do it, is to have one mpeg-2 stream and two audio streams(AC-3 dolby streams made in A.Pack(comes with dvdsp))(for your main feature).

In dvdsp(1.5)(you're not there yet but still...), you'd drag your m2v into the gaphical view and then add the 'normal' audio track to the audio bin so you have a main feature track with it's audio track. Next you can add another audio stream(your commentary stream) to the main feature. Drag it to the same bin as you did before. Now you have one m2v with two AC-3 files.

So right now if you watched it you could hit the audio button and you would be able to jump from the 'normal' soundtrack to the commentary one and back.

Ok I'll help you get there if you let me know that that is what you're trying to do.

No keep it at 48 khz but you'll end up with very small files once you run the audio through A.Pack. I can give you settings for that if you want?

Jake

EXACTLY!

I'll keep everything in 48 khz, but what do I export the audio as? 16 bit .wav or 8 bit .wav? Do I make it an mpeg2?

I need to be able to put the feature, commentary, a 17:30 documentary and 5 minutes worth of extras onto one 4.7 gb DVD-r.

I'm compressing with FCP 3.0.4 and building the DVD in DVDSP 2.0.

Thanks,

heath

Sorry about this but I'm in the UK and gotta go. I'll help more later if I can or tomorrow morning uk time.

Read up on A.Pack as you'll need to use it.(it takes your wav's(PCM audio and makes them AC-3 dolby streams, much smaller than wav & aiff but same quality to you and me)

Keep you wav settings as high as poss. 16 bit etc as the compressing will be done in A.Pack.

In A.Pack for a stereo stream, drag your wav to the left and right channels.
Set the data rate to between 192 kbps & 224 kbps and you'll be fine. Also uncheck everything in the preprocessing tab.

If you've got dvdsp 2 then you've got Compressor so you should export out FCPro ref movies, with video only, and encode those in Compressor. 2-pass VBR for sure.

Jake

Oh and no. The audio will never be mpeg-2.

Jake

Thanks, Jake. I'm going to start compressing the commentary first. I am waiting for the audio to come back on the movie and then I have to send out the documentary and trailer's audio to be fixed, too. I probably won't start the main compression of the film and doc until sometime next week.

Tonight, I'm gonna do the DVDSP 2 tutorial to figure everything out.

FYI, everyone, DON'T do anything other than 16 bit and 48 khz, because it will sound like crap (esp. in 8 bit).

heath

An hour and 50 minutes @ 3.0 mbps resulting in 3.8 gb sounds
about right.

What about an 18 minute doc, 3 minute alternate scene and a 1:40 trailer? 3.0 mbps.

heath

That's only 23 minutes. Lets round that up to 25 to give us a bit
more space.

Now the maximum size on a DVD-R is 4500 MB. If we divide the
4500 with 25 we get 180 MB. So the max we can use for each
minute of our footage if we want to stay within that boundary
is 180 MB. Lets lower that to 150 to get a bit more breathing
room.

150 divided by 60 (seconds per minute) is 2.5 MB/s. Now if
we multiply that by 8 we get a max datarate of 20 mbps which
DVD cannot handle. So for 25 minutes you can easily use 9 mbps
and still have room to spare, no problem (which would yield a
DVD well under the 2 GB).

Now again, this is the TOTAL datarate. Including ALL video,
audio & subtitles. If you have extensive (motion) menus you
need to take that into account as well.

That 25 minutes is added onto the 1 hour and 50 minute feature with a 1 hour and 50 minute seperate audio track (commentary). I'm pretty sure it can be done on a 4.7 gb DVD-r, um, right?

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Jake Russell : Ok I'll help you get there if you let me know that that is what you're trying to do.
Jake -->>>

Hey Jake,

Haven't heard back from you about compressing my film, audio commentary (alternate audio track), and 25 minutes of extras onto one DVD-R.

Thanks!

heath

Not sure what other info you need really. It's all pretty much been covered over the two posts.

Use compressor for encoding your footage, if not use the new QT encoder which has 2-pass VBR and if not that then the old QT encoder I guess as those are the encoders you have.

Use AC-3 audio files encoded in A.Pack from wav files.

Thats kind of it. You are really gonna be pushing the dvd-r limit and you'll have to play with the bitrate to get a pic quality you can live with.

If you have questions ask but loads have been answered,

Jake

Compressor is a seperate program that was installed when I put in DVDSP 2...So, my question is, when I change my preferences in DVDSP 2 to a bitrate of 3.3, etc., does that automatically transfer to Compressor? Or do I compress within DVDSP 2? (I have FCP 3, so I'm not using that mpeg2 compression.)

THANKS!

heath

Well I started at dvdsp 1.0 so out of habit I encode then import into dvdsp. I'm hearing this is still the best way to go.

So if you want to use compressor. Goto your Applications folder in Macintosh HD and thats where compressor is. If you launch it as a standalone app you can import your video only FCpro ref movie. Click the + at the bottom left of the window and add locate your movie. Set your settings and hit submit. Make sure you are not online or contected to a network.

Jake

That's pretty easy; where are the settings? That's the problems I had. When I was in DVDSP 2, the encoding settings were there, but I don't think they were for the Compressor.

Jake, I appreciate you answering my dumb questions.

Everyone else, hope this simple guide Jake has been giving me gets you to your DVD projects faster than the lengthy guides do. I've always hated those things.

heath

Results:

3.5, 4.0 and 5.0 compression was under 140 mb for 5 minutes, but tons of "waves" were seen on it (artifacts?). 6.0 mbps was over 200 mb for five minutest (too large) and looked better, but still had artifacts.

Am I screwed? Jake, if I go with a 3.5 to 5.0 mbps, is that just gonna look like crap on DVD? Honestly? Or am I just seeing weird stuff in the simulator in DVDSP 2 Basic?

heath

Basically it depends how your footage is to start with. I've had pretty good looking fooatge 3.5-5(avg) 2-pass VBR. Try a built in preset HQ 60min & 90min and see if you can get good looking footage. If yes then you have a starting point to reduce from.

The artifacts are a lot more noticable on computers compared to tv's.

Your 5 mins of test footage should be a mix of all sections of the footage. Remember that with VBR, 5 mins at one part or your movie will be a different file size from another 5 mins. It seems you have time to play with so maybe encode the whole thing to see what file size you get. Even try it with all encoders.

Encoding isn't an exact science I'm afraid. There is no magic number. You are going to have to except poor image quality also probably as it's just way too much to get onto a 4.37GB dvd-r.

I did edit footage once, scaled it down, did a few splitscreens etc so there was a lot of black footage which got the avg bitrate down and reduced filesize.

Jake

I remember compressing an hour and 45 minutes down through FCP 3 (some video I edited) and I used around 3.8 mbps. It looked fine when played back, even the stuff outside in the night. I'll burn a test dvd maybe and watch it on a TV....

heath

Yeah I'd say check it on tv for sure.

I can get the filesize right down in Compressor so I'd say it's worth playing and getting to grips with it for your project. You can batch encode so if you have afew settings just set it off and leave it if you want.

Jake

Half the film is in black and white, so I'm gonna do something in color (both well-lit and dark). I'll burn a DVD at both 3.5 and 5.0 and take a look. Probably my best bet is 4.0...

Also, how do I make chapters in FCP 3? Do I do them seperate for audio and video?

Thanks,

heath

Yep but dont forget that what you set your max and min to will play a part. Press 'M' when you're on the timeline and you can insert markers. It's a lot easier in dvdsp2 though than it was in 1.

Jake

If I set my minimum to 3.7, say, and my max to 4.2, will that be okay?

Should I encode the video and audio, import into DVDSP 2, then do markers? I've heard I should do it in FCP 3...

heath

I guess it's each to their own. I always do it in the authoring app so I'd say do it in dvdsp but if doing it in FCPro works for you then thats what works for you.

You can probably set the max to higher than that. Trial and error baby woo hoo :-) and if there is fast motion etc I'd say atleast give it a go with a higher max but keep the avg down like you have.

Jake

<<<-- Originally posted by Jake Russell : I guess it's each to their own. I always do it in the authoring app so I'd say do it in dvdsp but if doing it in FCPro works for you then thats what works for you.

You can probably set the max to higher than that. Trial and error baby woo hoo :-) and if there is fast motion etc I'd say atleast give it a go with a higher max but keep the avg down like you have.

Jake -->>>

I don't have any fast pans or anything. Hmmm.

I'll do my chapters in DVDSP 2. Should I also do chapters on the commentary? I'm guessing yes.

By the way, can I go lower than 192 in A. Pack on the commentary?

heath

Ok I dont want to make things too complex but as we are in 2003 and the world is moving on there are 101 ways to do everything.

You can add compression markers and chapter markers in FCPro & Compressor. I do a lot of authoring and don't always have to edit the footage but as you are I better explain so you can choose which is best for you.

If you need to have frame accurate chapters then add the chapters in FCpro or Compressor. If you do it in dvdsp the chapter will be attached to the nearest I-frame. I dont always need to be frame accurate so tend to do it in dvdsp.

Lots of this is covered in the manual though. Haven't read 2's cover to cover yet but will do soon.

The chapters will be the same for both audio tracks as it will be determined by the info in the m2v video track.

Sorry to state the obvious but if you drop the audio and you think it's fine then it's fine. I haven't had to drop it lower so I dont have a wealth of experience on the matter but my 192 streams sounded fine so I doubt a bit lower will hurt.... but if it is no good just use the 192 stream. People will watch bad footage with good audio but not the other way around....

Jake

Maybe I shouldn't have used a feature for my first real DVD authoring...Then again, the feature (shot in 1999) was my first project on Final cut Pro. Go figure...

Thanks,

heath