Neo Scene 1.1 is now officially released and available from CineForm Home Page (http://www.cineform.com).

Key changes, quoting from the release:
* Canon 5D Mark II video files are now supported with proper black levels
* AAC audio decoding added for those AVCHD source using AAC audio
* Fixed installation for those systems on which Adobe CS4 is already installed.

While technically we always supported the full range of the Canon 5D, however many consumer editing tools don't handle super-whites or blacks (the full dynamic range), making the data appear clipped when it wasn't. For those using Sony Vegas or Premiere Pro CS2/3 the data could be retrieved with standard filters, but for all other editing tools we have made this much simpler. We now normallize the 5D to have a standard YUV range upon conversion to CineForm AVI, this allows that all video tools can access all the image data with any additional filters. We have done this a lossless manner by using the 10-bit nature of the CineForm codec.

Neo Scene 1.1 is CS4 compatible, we did have issues wih 1.0 when a wrong component was installed, the fix has now be added in this build.

Reported compatibility concerns with Nero 7 have yet to be confirmed, although Nero 9 works fine with Neo Scene in our system tests.

Our home page doesn't provide the best link to the download. Being as David Newman's post covers all the salient details, go here directly to get the download: CineForm Downloads (http://www.cineform.com/downloads.aspx).

Alternatively go to our product page for more overall details: Neo Scene (http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoScene.htm)

..... Neo Scene 1.1 is now officially released and available.
The color range now looks good in CS4, with the proper range and no crushed blacks or whites. I can't see any banding at all and all color editing works normally. Comparing what I see with native MOV clips, the AVI clips are very slighty darker, but with the same gamma - not an issue at all.

The file sizes are about 5% smaller than with version 1.1.1. The AVI files vary from about 0.7 G/min to about 1.0 G/min, or 2.5 to 3 times the MOV files. This is the same on two different computers (using the Medium setting).

The color range is now also correct for Elements 7, which is useful for me as I use Elements in the field on my laptop. Elements occasionally fails when loading the 1.1.2 clips; this happened on both of the two computers. This had never happened with 1.1 files (and I never tried 1.1.1 files with Elements) or any other files I've used with Elements. Once the clips are loaded Elements runs reliably (and smoothly).

This is a very good release; looking for the next one.

I was anxious to try this new release as I've unfortunately had no luck getting NeoScene to work on my system. I just tried to convert a 5Dmk2 clip and it seemed like it converted successfully. I know the file size can increase by 3x or so, but in this case the 160mb original became about 1 gig in size.

When I tried to add this file to AE CS4, the program froze and then crashed.

Any thoughts of what I can try? Would CoreAVC interfere with this at all?

thanks, Ryan

Ryan, do you have Nero 7 on your PC, several are claiming it is clashing? CoreAVC should not be a clash, as I have try on all my development systems. I have yet to see one of these hugh files. Ryan would you recording a 1 second clip in camera and converting that, and send both files via yousendit.com and please email it to me (dnewman@"you the company name".com) Thanks.

David,

An update on my situation:

I installed 1.1.2 on my "Messy" system and had it convert the original MOVs to AVIs which were still 5-8 times the original size. This system has Nero 5 on it. If the problem actually is a confliflict with Nero, it's not just with version 7.

I installed it on my "Clean" system, which I've confirmed does NOT have Nero installed, and it worked perfectly, converting all the MOV files quickly. The resulting AVI files were also SMALLER than those created with the previous version of Neo Scene (as also reported by Charles, above).

When I loaded the AVIs in Premier Pro CS3, I had significantly more detail in the shadows without having to apply any filters.

If we can solve the conflict, this would be a winner for me.

Julian

Ryan, do you have Nero 7 on your PC, several are claiming it is clashing?

David, that was it! I indeed had Nero 7. After uninstalling it, NeoScene produced a much more sensibly-sized file (270mb vs. the original 160mb I think). And it drag 'n dropped in AE just fine. I gotta run out the door, but I'll have to look at some other things in more detail later. Like I think AE was identifying it as 29.97 instead of 30fps.

Also: when I try to play the converted .AVI in VLC Player I get a "CFHD not installed" error or something like that (forget the wording, but definitely mentions CFHD). I'm sure that's just me not installing/registering something I need to. Is it possible to get these playing under VLC?

Thanks for the help! Crazy Nero interferes like that. Shouldn't it just be burning my files to disc when I ask, not messing around with codecs and whatnot? Bad Nero!

Ryan,

That's great that removing Nero solved your problem... but what areyou going to use now to burn DVDs? That's the situation I'm in. I use a much earlier version of Nero, which has a bit less bloatware with it. I use it, because it reliably burns CDs and DVDs.

I believe I read in another thread that Cineform changes the 5D mk II's 30 fps MOV files to 29.97 fps AVIs, so based on that, I think what you're seeing in AE would be correct.

I created a custom project template in Premier Pro CS3 which is 1920x1080, 29.97fps, square pixels, 44100 hz audio and uses the Cineform compressor. Things seem to work well, so I'm hoping my settings are correct!

Julian

I have Nero 9 on one PC and Nero 5 on another, neither has problems. So Nero is not totally evil (I also like it for DVD burning,) but there has to be something to it, as that is the only tool that uninstalling it fixes the issue.

Ryan, VLC doesn't work with any third party codec, only open source codecs work. A better player in the poorly named Media Player Classic.

That's great that removing Nero solved your problem... but what areyou going to use now to burn DVDs? That's the situation I'm in. I use a much earlier version of Nero, which has a bit less bloatware with it. I use it, because it reliably burns CDs and DVDs.
Julian
I have a little different solution I like. Cyberlink has media software similar to Nero, but I just use their PowerDirector (editor). I export HD from Premiere Pro and then take it to the time line of PowerDirector. There you can burn a DVD, but better you can burn HD on a normal DVD that plays HD on Blu Ray players (no Blu Ray burner or media needed).

And I think Adobe Encore that comes with PPro CS4 is pretty good, but you need a Blu Ray burner for HD.

Added an blog entry to explain what we did in Neo Scene 1.1.2 to improve the dynamic range and editability : CineForm Insider: New Canon 5D Mk-II support with Neo Scene 1.1.2 (http://cineform.blogspot.com/2009/02/new-canon-5d-mk-ii-support-with-neo.html)

Ryan,

That's great that removing Nero solved your problem... but what areyou going to use now to burn DVDs?

Thanks for the info re: 29.97. Good to know it's working correctly! As far as Nero, not sure now. I think I'm going to try and re-install it and make sure I remove everything that's not 100% mandatory, and then afterward try shutting down/removing services it starts, etc. These products absolutely have become so bloated with crazy stuff.

If that doesn't work, might try doing more research and killing off Nero codecs, which I believe reside at c:\program files\common files\ahead (.ax files).

I'm just not sure if the codecs are necessary for Nero to run. I'm just not knowledgable enough on how that works. For just burning files to a data CD/DVD (which is 99% of the time for me), I can't imagine it needs any. Maybe for burning MP3s and an audio disc or something.

If I come up with any solutions, I'll let you know.

If I come up with any solutions, I'll let you know.

I'd appreciate it. I actually use Nero Showtime to watch DVDs on my "Messy" system, so removing some of the auto-installed CODECs might be a problem there. I'm guessing I would probably only need the MPEG2 CODEC.

Julian

I have 2 issues with the last version (1.1.2) of Neo Scene on my laptop:
1) The conversion to CF AVI format works fine but when playing back the converted videos with Windows Media Player, the sound track is not synchronized with the video
2)I got an error message with CS4 Premiere Pro when trying to import a clip: "ImporterProcessServer.exe has topped working....."
3)After the message above I get another error message saying: "File Video dimensions (width/height) too large"

Any idea on what I'm doing wrong?

My config:
Windows Vista 64 bits
3 GB RAM
External eSata drive (2TB - the videos are stored there)

Thanks for your help...

Regards,

Guillaume

1) That suggests you PC is bottlenecked somewhere, CPU, RAM, disk speed, etc. Go to Start->Programs->CineForm->NeoScene->tools->Desktop Playback -- Fast. This will much life easier on your CPU and graphics card. You should see the audio in sync if you drive is doing fine.

2) Adobe still has bugs. At this point CS4 is also using standard VfW decoders, once the CineForm native importer is released we can avoid some of Adobe's weak spots.

3) All Adobe that one, although I've never seen that.

For testing, use the internal drive(s) first.

P.S. Just re-read, "laptop", yes that could be an issue until the CS4 importer is complete, Adobe is not very efficient using VfW, that will improve.

Ok, so I've had a chance to look more carefully at my "Messy" system. Guess what? I have Nero 7 Ultra installed on it, not Nero 5 as I thought! It's been a long time since I last updated it, and I didn't think I'd updated it that far.

So, Nero 7 seems to be a common issue after all.

Julian

Just aquick update:

I removed Nero 7 Ultra... And Neo Scene works perfectly!

I reinstalled Nero 7 Ultra and it went back to its old problems (very large files, slow etc).

Look like there definitely is a problem with the two co-existing on the same Windows XP installation.

Julian

Thanks David for your answer.

I don't think that my PC or any of its component is bottlenecled. Indeed, I can play smoothly the Canon 5D Mk II files (MOV) without any trouble with my laptop (a dual core 2.8 GHz) on my external RAID disk (7200rpm). Moreover the CF AVI files play perfectly well within Movie Maker.

I have SUPER C and MediaCoder installed... Do you think tehy can be at the origine of my difficulties?

I'm looking forward to testing the CS4 importer!

Thanks,

Guillaume

This is the lesson, don't use Window Media Player, nothing good comes out of that product. Download and use Media Player Classic.

I tried Media Player Classic and the output was similar and even worst. Then I applied your recommendation and switch from Quality to Fast mode.... The videos play well both on WMP and MPC now... Thanks.
What is the difference with Quality mode? Indeed, why am I not able to play CF video in Quality mode where I can play the original MOV file out of the camera without any issues? I thought that CF format was easier to decode than the original H264 format.

Guillaume

I have 2 issues with the last version (1.1.2) of Neo Scene on my laptop:

2)I got an error message with CS4 Premiere Pro when trying to import a clip: "ImporterProcessServer.exe has topped working....."
3)After the message above I get another error message saying: "File Video dimensions (width/height) too large"


I've got similar issues with my computer. As per a previous post of mine, I ended up removing almost everything on my computer, and reinstalling CS4 without the 4.0.1 update.

Installed the new version of 1.1.2 NeoScene. Brought up a old project, and within a few seconds got the ImporterProcessServer.exe error again.

Reading David's response, I noticed that you said to not use a extrral esata HD, so I'm currently moving all the files to a HD inside my computer and will report back.

Guillaume,

Yes, doesn't make sense, although the fast mode is using wavelet partial res decoding, something AVCHD can't do, so that mode is a lot faster (and doesn't impact the quality of your timeline renders.)

Amish,

We have nothing against external drives, and we use them all the time, but they can be cause of issues so it worth testing without them if you are having problems.

Amish,

We have nothing against external drives, and we use them all the time, but they can be cause of issues so it worth testing without them if you are having problems.

Yup no problem, I'm all about the process of elimination. Restarted my comp, moved the entire project folder to a internal HD. Opened the project, and on load, ImporterProcessServer.exe showed it's ugly face. It then asked me where the 'rendered' files were, so I pointed them to the correct place, but doing so, gave me a 'file import failure' with the error message "File video dimensions(width/height) too large.

Yup no problem, I'm all about the process of elimination. Restarted my comp, moved the entire project folder to a internal HD. Opened the project, and on load, ImporterProcessServer.exe showed it's ugly face. It then asked me where the 'rendered' files were, so I pointed them to the correct place, but doing so, gave me a 'file import failure' with the error message "File video dimensions(width/height) too large.

Time to file a report with Adobe as that component is not us.

Hi David.

I already bought ProspectHD (as an upgrade to Aspect).

I'm working with a lot of 5D footage now and wanted to ask if I still need NeoScene?

Thanks!

(working on CS3)

Jason,
You don't need Neo Scene, Prospect and NEO HD can be used to convert 5D footage today with a little effect. This will get simpler with the next release which adds direct 5D support to all our products.

thanks for the great update, you guys are great about staying ontop of customer issues and questions. Would cineform consider adding an imageflip to Neo Scene for 35mm adapter users, or is that only available in your more advanced products?

Thanks,
Ed

thanks for the great update, you guys are great about staying ontop of customer issues and questions. Would cineform consider adding an imageflip to Neo Scene for 35mm adapter users, or is that only available in your more advanced products?

Thanks,
Ed

+1 this request ;)

If you want image flip, you are not the consumer that Neo Scene is designed for, you need NEO HD.

the features (4.2.2 and 10bit) and the video quality (excellent) put Neo around the Prosumer category IMO- but you cant blame a guy for trying :)

I definitely have fewer issues with this version. I did originally have CS3, but that is uninstalled and I deleted all the CS3 directories. I also have Nero 8, so not sure if that has any effect. I am not getting crashing in AE CS4, but Adobe Media Converter CS4 will crash quite often when I try and convert a Cineform avi file.

Ryan, VLC doesn't work with any third party codec, only open source codecs work.

That's frustrating, it's my default player for everything... Oh well!

I wondered why I couldn't get it to play the intermediate .AVIs

I don't believe I'm breaking any confidences here (no one said not to mention it)... I sent some original 5D mk II MOVs, properly converted CF AVIs, and improperly converted CF AVIs to Cineform and just got news that Cineform believes they have found the problem which causes an incompatibility between Neo Scene and Nero.

Apparently, Nero was causing NEO Scene to use the wrong audio demuxer.

The fix will be in an upcoming new release.

Good news!

Julian

Hello,

As David mentionned in an another thread, I opened a ticket with Adobe support about the Premiere Pro CS4 crash I have with AVI files generated from Canon 5D Mk II footage with Neo Scene (v 1.1.2). I'm still unable to use any AVI generated by Neo Scene in Premiere Pro CS4... Unfortunately, I'll have to wait the plug-in Cineform is going to release for PP CS4 since the Adobe answer to my problem was quite clear on what they can (or cannot) do:

"...Thank you for contacting Adobe® Web Support for assistance with Adobe
Premiere® Pro CS4.

I understand that when you import Cineform® files in Premiere Pro CS4
you get the messages “ImporterProcessServer.exe has topped working.....”
and “File Video dimensions (width/height) too large”.

The Cineform codec is not natively supported by Premiere Pro CS4.
According to Cineform’s website they are currently working on an
updated plug-in that will allow playback of these files in Premiere Pro.
For more information, please contact Cineform, or view the following
page on their website:

Prospect HD/4K for Adobe Premiere Pro (http://www.cineform.com/products/Prospect.htm#CS4%20Compatibility)

I hope this information helps to resolve your issue. If you require
further assistance with this issue, please update your web case with
complete details, including what steps you have applied and any error
messages you are receiving..."

Regards,

Guillaume

Adobe is basically saying that they no longer support any VfW codec (which are not native by design -- the whole point of VfW is to add new codecs), and any crashes from their software are not their responsibility if you do something using Desktop mode (VfW interface they provide.) Also CS3 natively did support CineForm, they paid a license for that to help early HDV customers, so to not support CineForm by VfW is just bad/lazy. Also the same VfW codec works fine in everything else including After Effects. Then to suggest a Neo Scene user wait for Prospect HD, not their product, so just to be passing the buck.

Adobe we support CS4 now, yet some of your customers are crashing doing things your software should support, the best support thing to do would be to investigate. Remember most are running fine, so something is unstable on your end (our base VfW codec hasn't changed in years.) We are getting no error reports from our components, you may have a problem.

David, may I reuse your answer in my ticket w/ Adobe? It will probably help if I provide more detail....
Thanks for you help.

Guillaume

The second paragraph is not to inflamatory. :) Add "Neo Scene only needs to use the Video for Windows which CS4 is designed to support, the upcoming CS4 components in Prospect HD are not needed for Neo Scene, and is an unrelated development."

:) BTW, are we far away from Prospect HD v4? I'm very impatient..... to solve my issues and start to work ;)

:) BTW, are we far away from Prospect HD v4? I'm very impatient..... to solve my issues and start to work ;)

If you issues are with Adobe we have no idea if the CS4 importer will solve that. We hope to have a beta out in days not weeks.

hey david,

Im also jst trying Neo SCene...

ive converted a mov. file that was around 97mb in size. "High" was selected for export quality and 30p was maintained.

The conversion works... but for some reason its really slow. In task manager my CPU usage is only hovering around 2%-3% usage with HDlink. HDlink isnt taking advantage of all 4 CPU's

HDlink will run at full power at 91-40 ish then slowly die down to 02-01 in task manger. Its like it runs outa steam or something during conversion.

www.ozan.ca/mk2/slow.jpg

Previous cineform products liek Neo HD , Aspect and Prospect worked without any performance issues.

ive also jst noticed that the audio is completely distorted on all the clips. Video looks great though.

Im running...

2.6 Intel quad core
4gigs of ram
raid0 media drive
10rpm system drive

My system is a dedicated editing system so its disease free from the internet. Never had performance issues before.
________

ok wow,

i was reading about this nero problem... And i didnt think my old verison wouldnt effect my performance issues. I completely forgot i had it.

Sooo... i ive uninstalled Nero 6 and now everything is working at fulllll STEAM! CPU power is at 98-94 in task manger for HD link. It finally nice to see those high numbers again :)


Now i have a completely different question...

David is it easy for you guys to include presets for Neoscene and Cs3 and the mark 2 for 1920x1080p?