Hi, has anyone worked with a Sennheiser ME 66 ? Any complaints ? It's strengths/weaknesses. Any feedback would be appreciated.

J.J.

At the risk of flames, it is not a general purpose instrument. It is relatively low noise and works reasonably well.

Not great sonic reproduction and can overload fairly easily in loud environments. The ME66 metal shell is a bit soft and does dent to the detriment of the directional performance.

It shouldn't be the only hammer in your tool box.

For most of us, the 66 is quite adequate used in the proper environment. I'd quite gladly add one to my microphone kit if I didn't already have an AT835B.

There are much better microphones at much higher prices.

So that's sort of a general response. We can be much more specific about the microphone's suitability if you can state what you need to record and the environment in which it must operate.

Hi Mike, thanks for your response. It's for use in a feature, nothing crazy, a lot of the shots will be static, two characters sitting down, almost all interiors, controlled, very simple, and I'll probably be shooting with a XL1s. I realize how important sound is, I'm brand new to sound technique and equipment so any input is greatly appreciated.

thanks,

J.J.

You'd have to pay a lot more to get something better sounding. Mike is right about it having limitations. If it didn't then we wouldn't need different types and levels of mic, would we. it's a great start. If your going to be in very lound enviroments then i'd back up into the AT.

Buy a kit and it'll be cheaper. put the foam wind shield on and leave it on, then the barrel won't get dented. i tried the 835 and didn't like it, it wasn't hot enough for my VX2K. Now i have a mixer with preamps, i may revisit the AT line. The sennheiser isn't nec better than the AT just different.

The AT4073a shotgun will blow the ME66 away but then it's $150 more. the Senn 416 will blow the 4073 away but it's another $450 to $500 and the climb to the top goes on.

I'll also add that since most of this will be interiors, it's important to know the acoustic properties of the space as well as the delivery of the actors.
If it's a reverberent space and the actors are loud, then most any short shotgun will have trouble with off-axis coloration.
On the other hand, if this is a quiet and intimate level of dialog and the space has a lot of soft furniture and you can attenuate any reverb from the ceiling, an ME-66 can do very well.

If the actors are sitting down, I'd strongly consider a pair of Countryman miniature lavs that can really be hidden in the clothing. Tram is another brand that is good.

I regularly use an AT835B directly into my PD150 for dialog purposes inside and outside the studio. Not small rooms for the most part or not hard-surfaced rooms in any case.

I have the microphone boomed right above the actors and just barely out of the frame (I've had to rotoscope a few black blobs out of the top of frames.)

The AT835B is quite good for the movie scenes I'm taping for student acting finals. I also use it for cable television commercials where there will be a music bed throughout the commercial.

But it is not good enough for voice over work. For that I use an AT4043SE studio microphone. Mainly because I'm paying a lot for a good voice and I want every bit of character I can record. When I do that, I usually record into my DSR-300 because I like to see the voice talent working.

Once in a while I'll double-mic a voice talent. Normally I use the studio microphone and my AT81C which sounds different. Then I get a choice.

Bottom line, if I had to do a feature, I'd be using a much better shotgun if I could afford it. Or I'd hire a sound professional. Otherwise, the AT835B is just fine.

J.J.

You didn't mention how you would use the ME66. Just a word of caution...it does overload quite easily with the K6 power unit. I've used it for ambient sound at wedding ceremonies and whenever there was music or singers, we had distortion even with adjusted audio levels. However, you can get the ME66 altered by Sennheiser under warranty and it will behave much better.

I think B&H even carry the module with the lower output mod.

thank you everyone, for all the advice/expertise. Incredibly helpful. I think I'll try a few different mics, and see how they each react in a couple of the settings that I'll be using. I'll let you know how it goes, and what works well.

thanks again,

J.J.

Joe
I just realized you were in Calgary. What other suppliers do you have there besides Vistek?

If you want to buy Canadian try AVR.com. I deal with Jason or Vlad. they're out of Scarborough Ontario. They had dynamite pricing on Sennheiser ME66/K6. they carry Shure, Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Rode, Oktava, Beyer Dynamic, AKG, Sony, Tram.

I'm usually able to buy cheaper than having the stuff shipped in from the US.

hi bryan, thanks for the info. I'm not looking to buy though, just a little due diligence. I'm thinking of going with the mini35 package offered by scorched ice pictures, here in calgary, to shoot my movie, and it includes a ME66.

J.J.

Joe,
The AT4073a and Sennheiser MKH-416 that Bryan recommended are definitly worth a shot especialy if you are only renting them. However they do require Phantom power. If you end up renting one of them also see if they have a Beachtek DXA-6 which will provide Phantom power.

I have the ME64. It is pretty sensitive, but the sound quality is only so-so. Kinda dry. For something where dialog is important,
I'd move upscale. Don't you believe that this mic is all that. Not much warmth. Spend a couple hundred more and get a good mic.
I thought I was being smart by hooking up with a modular system that is easily expandable, but ... I wish I had a sweet- sounding mic. Joe, this one is not. Go with something else.
This class you are inquiring about is best relegated to ENG. Can anyone suggest a mic for me that would be a noticable step up?
Something that can give some presence?

The ME64 is an omni, the ME66 a hypercardoid in a short shotgun capsule. So for a recomendations for something better, did you read what I wrote in the 4th post on this thread?

"The AT4073a shotgun will blow the ME66 away but then it's $150 more. the Senn 416 will blow the 4073 away but it's another $450 to $500 and the climb to the top goes on."

Ya, I probably shoud've spent a little more. At the time, I figured that for $450 I could get a good mic.
FYI the 64 is not an omni mic -- it is cardioid. I believe the 62 is the omni.

I stand corrected. i have ME62 on the brain i guess, I've been thinking of getting one. The ME 64 is listed as a hand held cardoid. It sure looks like a short shotgun capsule to me. You say it's lack lustre? I gues that scratches it off my list.

I'd sure like a listen to an AT 4071/4073 and then compare them to the Senn 416. they say either one is a very positive step up.

The trouble with mics is after you listen to them a while you want better. The thing to do is revisit the crappy ones so you can regain an appreciation for what you have.

I'll definitely look in to going with another mic, and I'll start with the ones recommended here. thanks again.

J.J.

Another good recommendation is the Sanken CS-1 (www.sanken-mic.com/english/condenser/pdf/cs-1.pdf) which is also a phantom powered shotgun and is only 7" long. From what I hear, it has excellent off axis rejaction and great sound. Price range is between the AT4073a and MKH-416

Y'all mentioned earlier sending in the ME66 to get it tweaked, if it's still under warranty.

What is the tweak they give it, and what if it's not under warranty, how much will it cost?

The ME66 is the standard mike used by all of the Denver professional news operations in the field at this date. It is an excellent shotgun mike with very good (relative) flat acoustic properties and sensitivity. I had no problem with overload on either a GL2 or DVX100- and the output on new mikes, to my knowledge, is not a problem whatsoever-- the comments on overload regarding new ME66 and K6-- I think this is user error, I've never experience overload with a properly adjusted level. See http://www.24fps.com/Article/Alpha/53/xt/mics%20-%20shotgun.htm concerning older "red dot" mikes.

You can spend more, and less, and you get what you pay for- although for just about anybody reading these pages, there will be little or no advantage in higher priced mikes, and the Seinheiser at under $500 will give you absolutely wonderful sound for totally professional results.

I have had situations (shooting a live concert) when my ME66 was overloading regardless of what I did with the audio on the camera. I've contacted Senn and received this response:

Dear Mr. Wilson,

This is actually performed to the K6 not the ME66.
We call it the "red dot modification," and I don't know why.

If the mic is under warranty we will do this for free, but if it is not then your looking at about $17.95 for labor.
To obtain an RA number please visit:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/service/

Best regards,

Justin Cook
Operations Specialist
Sennheiser Electronic Corporation / Neumann USA
1 Enterprise Drive
Old Lyme, CT 06371
(860) 434-9190 / Phone
(860) 434-1759 / Fax
jcook@sennheiserusa.com

Hope this helps

Can you tell me a little bit more about what the modification is? 18 bucks is almost nothing if it improves the performance of the mic.

Do they improve dynamic range? Improve the . . uh. . .er. . .decibal range it can handle before the diaphraghm (sp?) pegs? Someone tell me.

Josh,

I've got a call into them now, waiting for a call back. Had the same questions myself. I'll let you know what they say. I'm just guessing but it may be they just tweak down the output of the K6 a bit.

Is that good? That doesn't mean I'll get less out of the mic, does it?

Josh,

Just got the call back. He explained that the "RD" (Red Dot) modification involves replacing a single capacitor in the K6 Module. The standard mod results in a 14db drop in max output level to avoid overdriving the mic preamp in the cam. That results in a mic that has an output similar to the previous senn K3U.

At the customers request, they can install a different value cap that will only cut the output by 8db. Since I've rarely experienced this problem, I asked that the just do the 8db mod. (HRD? Half a red dot?)

The mod does not affect sound quality or mic pattern, just output of the K6.

Great tech support that was very helpful. The guy I spoke to is the one that actually performs the mod so he assured me a quick turnaround.

Hope this helps!

Thanks. I'm still confused, as I don't know my audio technical info at all. What does the output of the K6 module, affect, exactly? How does it work?

Josh,
The K6 module screws into the ME66 microphone and provides the XLR connection. It contains a AA battery and powers the mic. The signal coming out of the K6 is usually pretty strong. This is great, unless you need to record something loud. Then the signal coming out may be clipped. By doing the mod, the output is reduced, so you have a heigher ceiling of actual sound before the output is clipped. As a trade-off, your quieter sounds are also attenuated.

Neil,
"the comments on overload regarding new ME66 and K6-- I think this is user error, I've never experience overload with a properly adjusted level."

Try using the stock K6/ME66 with a live band and see if you get distortion. This mic combination will distort any loud sounds even with levels monitored on a GL2. Sennheiser recognizes that there is a technical issue with the K6.
Bob

The distortion is occurring at the mic capsule itself, isn't it? In other words, it's not an issue of the mic overdriving the camera's preamp. Correct?

Dave,

Not according to the Senn Rep. He indicated that the capsule is not overloading but that the K6 module is providing an output that exceeds what some mic input preamps can handle. Therefore, they change a cap and lower the output to a level that works for most cam mic preamps.

At least that's they way I understood it.

Quoting another members sig: Everything I just said is probably wrong!!!

So if you have a limiter in the circuit that should solve the problem.

I can't see that the mod would simply attenuate, that could be accomplished with a pad.

I have an ME64. I've heard it's not quite as hot as the ME66, but one of the things I like most about it is it's sensitivity to low volume sound. I've never used it in hi volume situations but if I needed to I might consider an attenuator. They fit on the end of the mic and are -10, -20, or -30dB -- and they also are available as adjustible. Anyone know of any small inline limiters? I just don't want to send my mic out for neutering!

Ah. . I see. . .so if I only encounter extremely loud sounds every great once in a while, but shoot dialogue where people might not always project a lot. . . I'd be shooting myself in the foot with the modification.

What about using the XL1s attenuator, as well as that located on the Beachtek DXA 4C, my XLR adapter. . .might this not remedy the situation?

Don't know about the XL1s but I'd think the Beachtek would act the same as an in-line attenuator. Main thing regarding the Canon is this: is the attenuator *before* or *after* the preamp.
Perhaps a Canon guy can chime in here.
By the way, I agree with you Josh: Slash rules! Greatest guitarist there is. I remember reading that, when Axl Rose heard
the radio version of "Sweet Child of Mine", which had been edited
down (cuz the album version is long) by taking out the middle guitar solo, he was really pissed cuz he felt it was the best part of the song. Can still remember where I was the first time I heard a Guns 'n' Roses song. Really. At the time there was nothing like them. I was there the first night of their come-back World Tour in support of *Use Your Illusions* at Alpine Valley in
Wisconsin. Worst concert I ever saw. Hardly played any of their old stuff, only the new -- and the album hadn't even been released yet so no one was familiar with any of the tunes!

Just want to reiterate for those looking around for a good mic. I know you see how everyone is talking about the ME66 as a good mic to get. I was in your position. I got the ME64 cuz my needs were for a little broader range of pick up. NO ONE SAYS THIS BUT I WILL: These mics aren't "all that". They're *functional*. They are like news-gathering mics. If you're making low-budget movies or even docs with hope for a potential wider release, to use these mics, is shooting yourself in the foot. They're real dry. And *sensitive*, which I like in a mic. If you are particular and value a good-sounding mic, I would say spend a couple/few hundred more. If I had to do it over again that's what I would do. How I know this is this: I have a Rode NT4 stereo mic which I've A/B compared side-by-side for spoken word. The ME-64 is a bit more sensitive, but the Rode *sounds* much better. Any other NT4 users out there? I've got some backstage footage that I've shot with the NT4 and you're, like, "right there"!

P.S. I welcome alternative views on this mic. Let's hear it. I'm just trying to help the newbs out -- who are looking to make an investment in their future.

I certainly agree in sharing information. There isn't enough written about the various microphones. Unfortunately it's been a hands on learning experience for me.
That said, the ME66 (and others in the K6 family) are really the first stage in the microphone food chain. They are hot enough that they can be used without a mic preamp or mixer. There are other fine mics out there like the AT 835 and 815 , but these often require preamplification to give optimum results.

This same high output comes back to bite us in the butt when it comes to loud venues. The answer then is to use a mic of less sensitivety or buy a mic preamp with limiters. With the preamp we can use any mic of any output level. We have more diversity but we've also invested more money.

I'm shopping for another mic for use in close confines, noteably indoor interview situations. Im toying with the Oktava 012 kit. When and if I buy I certainly report back. I'd also like more info on the Rode NT3.

I bought this mic a long time ago, and unless I could get back what I paid for it, and then buy another better mic, there's just no point right now in investing in something more expensive.

Bryan, I think the NT4 is just two NT3 capsules in an XY pattern. Hi SPL. Just a little less sensitive than the K6 family. Very sensitive to wind gusts -- a foam windscreen is far from adequate -- you'd need a furry. Warm.
Best performance is had by feeding them a full 48V phantom.
I've tested them at 15V and they're alright. Okay at the lower for spoken word. For musical performance/singing, more detail is captured with the higher voltage.
And I agree: not enough is discussed about characteristics of particular mics.
Are there any mics you've had bad experience with?

I definitely agree the NT-3 is an outstanding mic as I've been very impressed with the one I recently purchased. All use has been in a studio for singing and dialog, running at 48v. I did test it with the internal 9v and it seemed fine.
It is sensitive to wind/breath and it's unfortunate that it's just so large and heavy for trying to use in the field. It's good on a static sand-bagged boom stand but I really don't think you'd be able to manually boom it for any length of time.
I recommend it for any indoor use where you want great clarity and sensitivity without harshness. It has a very smooth character.

I use my NT4 camera mounted, if you can believe.

I'm going to start a new thread on small hypercardoids`, if that's ok.

The NT4 is actually the same guts as the NT5. The NT4 on camera must be a sight to behold.

If you recall, I've been a tad piggish lately but have to resume my spending habits

I bought a 302 mixer and a marantz PMD670 recorder in September. I also bought a AKG D230 (dynamic ENG Omni) an AT 899 omni lav and an AT 851 cardoid boundary.

I haven't fully explored any of the mics yet. I'm very happy with the sound on the AKG dynamic and the AT Lav. Both have very pleasant open sound. very rich and lifelike. The Dynamic really surprised me by knocking the crap out of the ME66.

The jury is still out on the boundary. I was going to use it a a hidden mic for interviews.