Anyone care to elaborate on these 2 options? We have Aspect, but have run into problems trying to use it. We also are much more familiar with FCP, but would need to upgrade in order to use pixlet codec. Anyone care to speculate which of the 2 codecs contain less of a quality loss when you go back to .ts files and then to tape. Though we are finding it is difficult to go back to tape with Aspect anyways. The cost of Aspect is about the same as upgrading to be able to use Pixlet codec....

I'm beginning to wonder if the relatively cheap vegas video option of staying completely in .ts and then using womble to go to tape isn't the best option which allows the highest quality in the PC world.

Aspect HD was made specifically for the JVC cameras and I would advise that you stick with it if you are on any sort of a deadline. Pixlet offers full resolution editing on FCP, but without Steve's HDVCinema there is no way to take your footage back to the camera. Plus, no one really knows anything about the quality of Pixlet, Paul (who has been very trustworthy) says there is no loss, but I would still be wary until we find out more about the technical specs of Pixlet.

Brad

Lisa,

If you have Aspect HD already and are having problems using it, please check out our support website (www.cineform.com/support). We have created a knowlegebase there of questions and answers that we have had from users so far. If our knowlegebase does not contain your answer I WANT TO KNOW!!! After all, it's my job to keep the knowlegebase up to date!!! We also have a pretty nice trouble ticket system that helps us(and you) track the progress of any question or issue that you submit. While you are welcome to email me, I definitely prefer to have tickets submitted just because of the ease it gives us in tracking your issue.

Although, I am using Mac with Pixlet - I have to say that it sounds like the support for Aspect is worth the price. This guy obviously cares about exisiting users. If everyone supported their products like you guys we'd all be happy campers.

Will Aspect offer any Mac product in the future?

Chris

How are you finding Pixlet to edit Christopher? I had a few crashes last night when rendering out a 4 minute piece with just dissolves in it, rendering section by section seemed to fix it though. The quality looks great I have to say.

Question for Steve Mullen, Steve, will you sell just the mpeg encoder patch/plug-in part of your package separately or do I have to buy the whole thing as one?

Thanks

<<<-- Though we are finding it is difficult to go back to tape with Aspect anyways. -->>>
Did you go to their site and download the patch?

What kind of problems and to which tape?

Paul,

Everything seems to be fine regarding Pixlet. I'd really like to know from someone that is a "techie" if there is significant or just a slight loss when encoding to Pixlet from mt2 files.

As far as I can tell it's the same with no apparent loss. However, there must be SOME type of loss. If its slight - maybe we can all live with it until something new comes out.

I'd be interested in buying something that brings in the HD10U footage and automatically converts to Pixlet.

Chris

Christopher,

"verything seems to be fine regarding Pixlet. I'd really like to know from someone that is a "techie" if there is significant or just a slight loss when encoding to Pixlet from mt2 files."

Just for clarification, you get your Pixlet from a .m2v file and not an .m2t file right?

Thanks,

Frederic

<<<-- Originally posted by Frederic Haubrich : Christopher,

I'd really like to know from someone that is a "techie" if there is significant or just a slight loss when encoding to Pixlet from mt2 files." -->>>

I've searched for everything on Pixlet and found nothing new. I assume is it is very asymetric (very long to compress, but very quick to decompress.).

Anyway, I've updated the HDVcinema Guide to support it. I still can't see the point, but I guess the idea of "free" is attractive to some.

Steve, are the people who bought 4HDV going to get these new updates to HDcinema?

Chris

This weekend I'll email the updates.

I just finished checking operation with Panther. It all works fine!

But you haven't replied to my email asking you what problem you said you were having. :)

Problem is getting the video ts file to sync with audio and to avoid dropping frames. Similar to the first FCP when that debuted. I remember when FCP first came out I had to render it completely and export it as a complete FCP project and then print to tape otherwise I had problems with sync, dropped frames, etc. That was fixed by apple later on. Its somewhat of the same problem now with aspect. If I export it out first as a complete project and then re-export it again as a .ts file, I have no problems. But, that way I am forced to render it twice. Its not our system as that far exceeds their requirements.

But overall, I am happy with the editing part of Aspect. Getting it to WMP9 is also very smooth.

Steve, things are basically working with HDcinema. I've been reading your production guides more than anything though. I know there has been some developments since you launched 4HDV, so I hope you'll update the guides too.

I'm not sure what your plans are regarding HDcinema, but I think we'd all like to see you update it regularly. If possible, all owners of 4HDV could get a discount once you officially "upgrade" the package with a significant change? I really don't mind your price increase because your time and efforts should be compensated. You are in the acceptable ballpark for anything related to this JVC camera. I bought my HD10U for over $3,000. I can't see spending $5,000 for anything that'll let me edit footage. However, I would spend up to $500 because its relative.

I just wanted to say that in this public forum because I've read some stuff about your price increase. It's America - do what you need to prosper! Just remember that it's a $3,000 camera for a reason - it was targeted at all of our budgets! I still can't get over the $5,000 price tags from other companies - they must have overhead and lots of R&D time. This economy isn't good for a company like that - that's my 2 cents.

Chris

Some folks feel products should be priced bases upon what they make for a project. You often see the phrase "pays for itself in one project."

Others, based upon project budget. $5000 may not seem too much for a Hollywood project.

I feel pricing in relation to the camcorder price made most sense. That may come because when I was consulting on DV projects I would often encounter those who bought the camcorder, but then needed to shop for mics. $1000 seemed too much. But $100 consumer mics were just not good enough. The sweet spot seemed about $500.

So working backward from $500 -- for a complete camcorder to camcorder solution -- I arrived at $200.

Now if JVC would reduce the edge-enhancement on the HD1 -- it would drop the entry price even more.

Steve,

To be fair, your solution is a consulting solution and not a software solution. I understand that you have coded some plugins but you are relying on shareware for the complete workflow. Is this what is stopping you from doing online payments? Are there license rights issues with you including the use of shareware as part of your complete solution?

This is not meant to be a critism but rather an observation while we discuss the actual value of HDVCinema.

Furthermore, it also is a short-live solution unless you update it with new features as time goes on. For instance, as soon as either Apple updates Quicktime to read .m2v produced by mpgtxwrap or mpgtxwrap updates their software to make it compatible with quicktime, you loose the need for 1/2 your solution (HDVBridge). Similar situations apply to your other plugin (HDViaduct).

I have 10 years experience in software development and I've seen this phenomenon happen many times before, when new technologies are introduced. The first to market get quick financial rewards, but as soon the big boys get involved (Apple, JVC, Adobe, and others) many of the pioneers dissipate.

My recommendation would be for you to associate yourself with professional software developers and marketers before you get swallowed up by the big boys.

If this is the kind of business you are interested in continuing of course. I like to see innovators such as yourself succeed and I commend you with your clever solution. Without trying to be insulting, your presentation and pitch aren't very professional (webpage, lack of online payment, branding) and it might put you at a dissavdvantage as soon as comparably priced solution come out.

Respectfully,

Frederic

" I bought my HD10U for over $3,000. I can't see spending $5,000 for anything that'll let me edit footage."

I don't know if I would view it that way. I mean an G5 decked out with all the gear with FCP4 to edit footage from an XL1 is around 5K. Very similar price to edit DV if you have the proper set up. Obviously it can be done for less, but many people spend in excess of $5K to edit their DV footage, so I don't see how buying Aspect, premiere and a similar PC with the appropriate RAID drive set up for a tad over $5K is that much different. Same thing in my book.

Frederic,

Actually, I view what Steve is doing as more of generous gift to the DV community rather than formally creating a business. I highly doubt he is doing this and expecting hordes of money to roll in. His video guides and plug ins seem to me as more of a generous use of his time to help out other people in the HD world. I personally think we should just be thankful that he is spending his time putting all of this information together. In my mind a few bucks here and there for a software project and writing guides is just pocket change. There is no way anyone could make any real money off of doing things like this because apple, jvc and others will just formally make it on their own when the time comes. He is just helping us out in the early days when we have no other options. And, for that I think we should be grateful for his time and work.

Lisa

Actually Lisa the difference is that the $5K ($4,785 exactly) that is being talked about here is not the NLE nor is it hardware, it's just a set of plugins and utilities that allow you to use your HDV footage in Final Cut Pro.

Pro Indie HD Toolkit doesn't include any hardware nor does it include Non Linear Editing.

You still have to purchase a sizable machine, monitor, and Final Cut Pro to edit your footage. So we're talking about a $9,000 investment, at least to edit HDV.

In my opinion, Pro Indie HD Toolkit is highly over priced! They are trying to capture the desperate editor with a deadline before more affordable solutions arise. Keep in mind that their solution doesn't allow you to output your footage to camera, only deck. (Here's another $800).

Steve Mullen's solution is clearly a better one. Without a doubt.

Lisa,

Regarding Steve.

I don't disagree with you that he has been a fantastic contributor to this new technology to date and he ABSOLUTELY should get compensated for it.

When I'm asked, his solution is the only one I recommend so far. Because for realtime HDV editing on the MAC, it's the only one that makes economical sense (for now).

My comments to him were simply regarding the longevity of his solution if he decided to take it to the next level, which I think he could. His posts certainly indicate that he has every intention to.

But I'm not here to put words in Steve's mouth (or keyboard)...and now I'll get out of Steve's business.

P.S. $200 a pop ain't bad Lisa ;)

Frederic, sorry if I asked before... you seem to be objective and well informed... what's your personal opinion of Aspect HD vs. Vegas 4 as real-time m2t editing platform?

Alex,

Honestly Alex, I don't know enough about it to give an educated opinion.

I have to admit that I have been focusing my research on MAC because it is what we use here at our facility.

I did read lots of posts regarding these two products on this forum however and I'm sure you can pull them up if you do a search.

Sorry...

Actually, my original post was just to determine end product comparison of Pixlet, aspect and vegas as well. Problem is most people stick with mac or PC but don't bother with both systems like we do.

I'll attempt to answer my own question and post an original .ts file along with a .ts made from aspect and pixlet and maybe we all can see which has a cleaner look to it. In the end that is what is going to make the decision for us. I do understand that aspect was designed for the HD10, so it may have a distinct advantage, but I would like to see the results for myself, so we'll play around with pixlet and I'll try to post the results for everyone as well as the files.

Sorry to dissapoint you Lisa but I'm not a software reviewer, I'm an editor.

Most editors I know edit on one system only. You find what works for you and you stick with it.

All I can offer you is what I've learned trying to edit HDV on the system I use, MAC.

After reading your post, I contemplated buying a PC with Aspect and Vegas so I could answer your question but then I realized that I had work to do.