I am totally new in the DV world i am actually in the move to change my Old P3 500 to get into DV editing. I dont know if i ill get a G5 or a P4 neither if i ll use FCP or PREMIERE PRO or whatever DV editing program.

I've never tried those programs and i ve never used a Mac either. But I've only heard positive things about Dv editing on a Mac and FCP seems to be a beautiful professional program. I ll maybe do the switch.

Can you tell me about your experience with your new G5 and FCP or anybody who've done the switch from Pc to mac.

Helps will be appreciated...
thanks

I think you'll find the G5 and Apple's FCP an awesome platform for DV editing....there are countless professionals using this setup....expect excellent results- you should look at apple.com and look at the FCP pages- you'll be impressed.....the only limitations you'll run into would be yourself!

I myself was a PC user initially and became frustrated that the best video cards, OS, dv editing software, firewire card, computer manufacturer etc were all made by different companies and the problems that come with incompatibilities with using different manufacturers products- not to mention the instability and occasional crashes resulting from the "Windows OS"....with the Apple Mac you get a system where the OS, computer, hardware and software are all made by one company, Apple...resulting in a very stable platform and a system that just seems to work perfectly- it's a unix based system which has a history of being stable and reliable and with the new G5 you get the most POWERFUL computer available anywhere RIGHT now!

There will be a ton of pc users who will debate the merits of using a pc instead- but just look at the tons of professionals using FCP and the body of work created using FCP and a Mac- you'll be hard pressed to find a better DV editing platform anywhere at any price- the G5 & FCP4 represents current state of the art dv editing at an affordable price......go to apple.com and look into it- you'll be impressed.

If you're pressed into using a PC instead- you'll likely get good feedback at the pc forum on these boards- there's allot of knowledgeable people here doing excellent work on the pc side that can elaborate on setups good with the pc.

Happy hunting.

Jean
I too am very new to this field. I have been doing video editing for only about 18 months but I have been working on the PC since around 1995. I use the PC because it is all I know. I can tell you from my time doing anything with a computer that in my humble opinion, the Mac has the PC beat hands down when it comes to audio/video. If I had my time to start over, I'd work from the other side of the tracks.

Just one mans 2 cents.

Hi Jean-François,

I'm sorry but I cannot help you with your dilemna. I am a PC user ( I do c++ programmation for living, dv shooting as a hobby) and I have never used a mac but I am pretty sure it is a great tool for DV editing.

Nevertheless, I want to wish you welcome on this board, and in the DV world! It's always a pleasure to meet some people from Quebec (especially french speakers!).

Bonne chance dans ton choix de plateforme et laisse-nous savoir ce que tu as choisis et l'avancement de tes expériences!

I have been working on a Dual 2GHz G5 for the last few weeks, an upgrade from my G4 Single 867MHz.

Apart from some trouble with FCP 4 and Quicktime 6.4 (which seems to have been solved by upgrading to OS 10.3) working on the G5 has been a pleasure.

I have noticed the biggest improvement with After Effects 6.0. I can now use that program creatively without being bogged down by waiting for the computer to catch up with what I am trying to do.

I have had no crashing or kernel panics. In fact, I'm not spending a lot of time waiting for something to break -- and that may be the best reccomendation.

Jean-Philippe Archibald, please keep your post in English, it is a requirement of the DVI community. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Sorry Jeff,

I am aware of the requierements of this board, and this is why my comment was formulated mainly in English. Forgive me for the last sentence.

If you want to go Mac then Final Cut Pro and any G4 or the dual 2mhz G5 makes sense. You're probably going to love the dual 2mhz G5 if you can afford it (it's way more than the $3000 price tag if you take into account things you need).

For a budget editing system I'd go with a Pentium machine with Vegas Video. Get a 2.4mhz+ Pentium with hyperthreading, at least 0.5GB of RAM, dual monitors if possible, and plenty of hard drive space. If you replace your computer every few years then buying for value definitely makes sense.

As for Macs VS. PCs, the PC has definitely become a lot more stable. The Mac side recently had some rushed releases and some very nasty bugs. If you want to judge stability you should look at the program/platform combination you are using.

Thanks for your reply, this forum seems to be outstanding...

It looks like i can't really go wrong with the MAC...

Sadly I cant afford the dual G5 but whatever i was looking for the 1.8 G5 with 1GB of Ram and i would upgrade for the Ati 9600pro.
i have already a Panasonic CRT 19 monitor so il keep my money to buy a flat screen LCD later.

Is the 1.8 G5 still a Super computer for video editing with FCP. I dont wanna see any slow down or bugs.

What are those nasty bugs that you're talking about... i have heard nothing nasty about the new Mac...

> Is the 1.8 G5 still a Super computer for video editing
> with FCP. I dont wanna see any slow down or bugs.

Must be. Trust me. I have worked with Premiere on a 233 MHz G3, a 400 MHz G4 and now I have used FCP4 on a 500 MHz dual G4. Being much slower than any G5 based Mac, these Macs have been still great to work on, as long as you don't need much effects. The most basic G5 is very fast piece of hardware, OS X is a luxury operating system and FCP is the unbeatable editing app used now all over the world in very diverse production invironments. You can't go wrong with FCP.

> What are those nasty bugs that you're talking about...
> i have heard nothing nasty about the new Mac...

It often happens that programs are released to the public without being extensively tested. In an area where innovation and performance are so critical, small bugs can mean big trouble under certain conditions. So it is usually wise to wait a bit before jumping into the 'latest thing'. This applies mainly to software and on all platforms. If you go Mac, don't go yet with 'Panther' (the latest version of the Mac OS) and try to have your dealer hand install an NFR version of FCP3 along with the version 4 you will be buying. NFR stands for 'Not For Resale' and it's not piracy. Thus you can use FCP3 if you run into any trouble with FCP4. I doubt you will have any problem. Just stay clear of Panther for a couple of months.

Sadly I cant afford the dual G5 but whatever i was looking for the 1.8 G5 with 1GB of Ram and i would upgrade for the Ati 9600pro.
i have already a Panasonic CRT 19 monitor so il keep my money to buy a flat screen LCD later.

Is the 1.8 G5 still a Super computer for video editing with FCP. I dont wanna see any slow down or bugs.

The dual1.25 G4 beats out the single processor G5s in some benchmarks. The G5 is going to get faster if the FCP team writes optimizations for the G5 processor. However, they'll probably put these optimizations in FCP5 and you'd have to buy it.

The 1.8mhz G5 is a bit more future-proof with PCI-X slots, more RAM possible, and the 64-bit processor. The biggest thing might be the 64-bit processor. It might turn out that there's a killer app that is only 64-bit. If you plan on upgrading you might as well save some money now and invest it later when you see how 64-bit turns out (if it even does) and get something like a dual 3mhz G5. The G5's storage however costs more than the G4. The dual processor G4s are great value right now so I'd probably get that.

Use the extra money for things like dual monitors.

Remember to get a 2-button scroll wheel mouse, the apple mouse is only good for decoration (it's 1 button).

What are those nasty bugs that you're talking about... i have heard nothing nasty about the new Mac...
Panther causes all data on Firewire drives to be lost in some cases. Check macfixit.com. Quicktime 6.4 also caused some problems with people.

You can save money on RAM by buying it 3rd party since Apple RAM is close to twice the street price. Make sure it'll work with your Mac though.

Apple has staked their future on 64 bit processing, so it is the future of Apple computing. FCP will be optimized for the G5 and I doubt it will have a significant cost. But I don't expect the upgrade until Spring or early summer. Macworld SF is in January and will probably introduce new G5 Power Macs at that time. If you can wait until late January or early February so good deals will be had on existing G5's. If you can't wait the 3 or 4 months consider the single processor G5's.

I too am a P.C. user and made the switch to the Powermac G5. The Powermac G5 is the most beautiful machine that I have seen. But, I regret everyday that I made the switch. I would give anything to trade my Mac for a good ole' Alienware Hyper-Threading PC with Vegas+DVD. Now, understand I am not making feature films so Vegas suits all of my needs. Unless you are going to be doind features, FCP and AVID are rediculous. Yes, I know few share my point of view, but, I am just speaking from my expierience with the programs.

If you take the time (and it will take a lot of time) to learn the different workflows of the programs than it really doesn't matter which platform you use. If you just want to have "fun", and enjoy the editing expierience than buy Vegas and stick with a PC. Good luck to ya'. Let me know what you decide.

G. Lee,

Could you be more specific to what your experience was with the G5 and why you regret it so much?

I'm asking because I have talked to many "switchers" and they never regret they got into Mac.

Now, understand I am not making feature films
G.lee
What kind of feature films are you talking about...I am looking to get the equipement for making alot of kind video and i expect doing a sport film which for sure will has to look like a film.

I agree with you that it really doesn't matter which platform to use. I am pretty sure i d be able to arrive at the same result either with a PC or a MAC...but i hate bugs, i hate wait, i hate work with a awkward software. i want a system who will last for at least 4 or 5 years, i want a software easy to use who give professional look video and film. My problem is... i have no experience then i have to trust reviews and user comments...which is ...as you said...really hard.. of course i am gonna spend at least 4000 dollars...

Until now, i trend toward the Mac and FCP because Professional use it, people love it, i have heard such good things about this system, it's powerful, will last for a while and a lot of DV schools use it. I can't end up with the same thought with a PC windows XP based and Vegas. .. i think wont be able to really set up my mind until i ll choose something... Is that makes sense...

Mark, I may have been a little harsh. It was time for me to upgrade my system so I researched and researched and found that the G5 was the best bang for my buck. So I bit the bullet and bought a G5 from Compusa... a month and a half later (delays from MAC) I recieved the most beautiful machine that I had ever seen! Great, I go to load my Protools... It crashed! I call protools and they said the computer is so advanced that they haven't upgraded the program yet .Two and a half months later, I still can't use my Protools. So I concentrate on editing.

I load up FCP Express. Not impressed. It's just like the old Adobe days... Haven't tried Avid yet. It's not that the MAC was awful, it's just that these die hard mac people make it seem like some orgasmic expierience to use a Mac, and frankly I don't get it. The G5 is awesome. The machine is flawless. But, there is such an abundance of programs available for the PC that are not available for the Mac. There's not even a store that offers Mac software in my little town.

So frankly my opinion is that this Mac stuff is a lot of hype. An advertising image synonamous with you're cool if you drive a new VW Bug type of thing.

Bottom line, if you have a PC and you like the programs you are using. Stick with it. If you've never used either, go ahead and go for the Mac. Either way, in my humbe opinion, it's the software that's important. Is FCP leaps and bounds above the rest... no not really. Is it a bad program, not at all. Is it good enough to switch environments if your're already comfortable... not in my opinion.

G. Lee Gordon, Thanks for the response. I'm a soon to be switcher. (few weeks out)

Just hang in there for a little while and things will get better. It's a new technology and some folks are still catching up. It's a big decision making the switch and I think you'll be much more happier in the long run.

I was curious, you didn't mention anything about the Macintosh lifestyle you have now and with other people. Or how about the fact you don't need virus software, anti-spyware and anti-adware. Have you tried the iChat and iCal? They are remarkable. I know you many not have an Apple store in town, but it's still worth it. The MacZone catalogs are nice to have for when you want to order things, also online you can find plenty of computer stores.

I've been using Vegas on the PC for a Year and a Half and I do not care what anyone says, but Vegas is a Toy. I will say it again, "Vegas Video is a toy". Yes it's easy to whip things up, but the audio output and clip control is a joke. It's not a serious, professional NLE. My opinion.

And as for PC users (like my self), don't listen to them if they put you down being a Mac user. People like that just run you down and pretty soon you'll start to believe them. There are many more PC users out there so you need to stay strong. While you're busy being productive, they'll be busy sending error reports to Microsoft.

I'm getting my Dual G5 in a couple of weeks or so. Can't wait.

I've used both Vegas Video (most audio editing) and Final Cut Pro. The workflow is VERY VERY different so if you use one you won't understand the other one right away.

I will say it again, "Vegas Video is a toy". Yes it's easy to whip things up, but the audio output and clip control is a joke. It's not a serious, professional NLE. My opinion.
I don't know about you but the audio controls in Vegas are amazing- the best of any NLE. There are only a few tasks which you'd need to flip over to an audio editing program for.

The clip control some people find more efficient than FCP, but FCP probably has the edge on long projects.

And as for PC users (like my self), don't listen to them if they put you down being a Mac user. People like that just run you down and pretty soon you'll start to believe them. There are many more PC users out there so you need to stay strong. While you're busy being productive, they'll be busy sending error reports to Microsoft.
Vegas users report a lot less problem than FCP on forums. Maybe it's just because there are more FCP users and/or they complain more, but FCP4 has lot of known issues (and so does Panther with it killing FW800 drives). Vegas has no show-stopping bugs (losing A/V sync on print to video) and only a few little quirks. None of which are as annoying as "Preparing Video for Display..." in FCP.

I don't remember XP/NT/2000 ever crashing on me, while I've seen a few kernel panics with OS X. I'd have to say that Vegas is at least as stable as FCP.

Premiere 6 and under, win95, and win98 do give the PC platform a bad rep though because all those products are buggy.

I'm not sure which system I'd recommend. Definitely if you're on a budget you'd go with Vegas/PC. If you need Unix to do your programming then FCP/Mac would be a lot more attractive. Figure out what you need to do and get the NLE that is better for you.

Vegas users report a lot less problem than FCP on forums. Maybe it's just because there are more FCP users and/or they complain more, but FCP4 has lot of known issues (and so does Panther with it killing FW800 drives).

These casual observations on reports of problems are less than scientific and are not statistically relevant. I'm not saying that FCP does not have issues. But judging the number of issues or the severity of the issue by a casual observation of complaints on several forums is meaningless.

The Panther/FireWire 800 issue was dealt with within the first day. Owners of FireWire 800 drives need to contact the drive manufactures for a firmware update. Panther is a cutting edge OS offering features that XP users only dream about. The next MS update is still at least a year away.

The Panther/FW800 issue should never have gotten out in the first place. And people who can't boot OS9 can't upgrade their drive's firmware to fix the problem.

There's also the releases of QT6.4 and OS10.2.8 which caused problems for people. Apple quality control has been poor lately causing systems to become unstable.

These casual observations on reports of problems are less than scientific and are not statistically relevant. I'm not saying that FCP does not have issues. But judging the number of issues or the severity of the issue by a casual observation of complaints on several forums is meaningless.

Ultimately it's the user's experience that matters, and forums give a good idea of that people's experience with FCP/Vegas is. There are other factors that affect how much people complain about a program so you have to take casual observations with a grain of salt. However, the huge difference between the amount of complaints of Vegas versus FCP seems to indicate that Vegas is at least as stable.

And people who can't boot OS9 can't upgrade their drive's firmware to fix the problem.

Untrue. All the major drives I've checked, LaCie, FireWire Direct, Glyph, OWC and Wiebetech all have OS X updaters. No need for booting into OS 9.

Ultimately it's the user's experience that matters, and forums give a good idea of that people's experience with FCP/Vegas is.

User's experiences are one of the best ways to judge a programs features, defects etc. However, the online community is full of trolls, half truths, hearsay etc. Our own community has been the victim of this in the past. Accurate and meaningful judgements about users reports can not be made.

However, the huge difference between the amount of complaints of Vegas versus FCP seems to indicate that Vegas is at least as stable.

Vegas is a stable product and it's stability has not been an issue. FCP has been very stable since the early releases of version 1 and 1.2 New versions always have few issues. If FCP is mission critical wait a month or two for the early bugs to be worked out.


There's also the releases of QT6.4 and OS10.2.8 which caused problems for people. Apple quality control has been poor lately causing systems to become unstable.

Apple released within 48 hours (I think it was less but I can't be sure) a downgrade option to QT 6.4 users. Those that were having problems could easily downgrade to the prior version of QT.

The school I teach at, thought about adding a Vegas Video class. However, a survey of potential employers in the production/post production industry in the greater Tampa area found no users. Avid and FCP skill sets (with a few Premiere users) were the vast majority of hiring requirements for perspective employees.

Mark, I haven't tried ichat or .mac. I've had so much crap on my pc that I've decided to keep my Power G5 an internet virgin...

As far as Vegas being a toy? Well, I don't know. I'm not a post house or a commercial editing suite (yet!), but for my weddings, corporate video, etc. , Vegas is heaven.

We have four duel 2 gig G5s here at The Media Union. All I can say
is they ROCK. Wonderful design and manufacturing. Fast as hell
and very quiet all things considered.

On my 1 gig G4 laptop using Combustion, it takes about 18 minutes
to render a 15 second pan and scan.

The G5 can render and _burn_ the same pan and scan (a 600+ meg disk) in 6-7 minutes.

The head of Apple Video Development was on campus yesterday.
Updates to fix some known bugs in Panther and improve FCP speed up to
7 layers/EFX in real time using panther are due out VERY soon.

Now, you have to understand that with any super new technology there
are bound to be bugs and quirks, but I am taking out a loan to get
my own G5 . . . the ride is awesome IMO and worth the payments.

The other thing that's cool . . . as programs update to 64 bit, this computer
will get even faster.

I would not be surprised to discover that what Apple is talking about is actually implementing a 64 bit version of the rendering engine in FCP. Should be fairly easy, they just have to recompile part of the program, a very specific part, and it will make a big difference. It's like what happened when PowerPC came along, big performance boosts could be seen even in non-native programs with some operations. Photoshop used a PowerPC plug-in while the application itself was still full of 68k code.

Ignacio, you make a very good point. That's probably it.

64-bit theoretically won't improve FCP performance. 64-bit allows programs to use larger numbers. In the case of FCP this isn't useful at all. The biggest numbers used in rendering is 32bit (for audio and video). It's more than enough.

However optimizations for the G5 processor will definitely increase performance.

Now back to the actual topic of this thread, of course G5/FCP4 would be a great combination- if you can afford it!!

If you're working in a professional environment then Vegas isn't the best choice (doesn't do betaSP, hard to online on other systems) but for other uses it can be a great system.

I guess you are right about that Glenn, but does FCP not use larger than 64 bit numbers when rendering YUV in the high quality mode?

I have been working a night job for 6 months here in Whistler BC. My job is night cleaner. Each time i am working at night i think about the system i ll be able to buy. i saved more than 10 000$ only with that job.

Now i have enough money to buy something really good but i am afraid to spend it.... expecially when i am thinking to buy a Mac(i have been a PC user for 5 years now)

i definitely want start in production the next year ..professonally.. and as soon i ll get all the equipement...i ll start doing some little video for everybody who wants it.

That said, i dont wanna practice 1 year on a NLE that i'd change after that time. Big waste of time.

I can built a pc based system with a Dell Xps and a Adobe bundle
for 4000$ with a 19" crt
And a Mac based system as a G5 1.8 and FCP for 4500$ without monitor.

I hope if a decide to spend the extra 1000$ on a Mac i d see a good difference at the end. (when i ll get use of the NLE)

I think FCP4 is light years ahead of Premiere. I used to be a Premiere user and loved it, but with FCP there is no going back.

I started a new thread in the PC non-linear editing about almost the same subject...let's see what they think.

I think Jean-Philippe said to Jean-Francois: good luck on your choice of platform, let us know which one you pick and how it's going.

My pick is still going strong, I have a middle-aged G4 with FCP, use it on a regular basis. I am writing this post on a 1-year-old IBM Pentium 4 with Avid Xpress DV, Pyro Firewire card and Pioneer DVD burner. I am still waiting for my I.T. help desk experts to figure out how to make it work; i.e. be able to capture video on Firewire. I am sure this PC has a much faster processor and whatever other specs the engineering enthusiasts are all gung-ho over...however, my clients would be waiting a long time waiting for their projects to be done on this machine where meanwhile I am editing something every week on the ol' Apple.

This will probably start a flame war amongst the two factions...I've seen it all before: sailboaters vs. powerboaters, Harleys vs. "rice burners", etc. Meanwhile I have some video to edit over there on my Mac.

PS: my I.T. guys don't know anything about Macs, haven't touched them...that's OK, they don't have to.