Post up ALL PC edit solutions and links, if applicable: Aspect HD, Premiere, Vegas Video, etc. And questions, too! And those in the know, post up answers!

Help out the PC folk working with HDV.

And of course, JVC's, which is a pain just getting the code key in! :-)

heath

Canopus Japan have an‚Žounced Hi-Def editing suite "HDWS-1000" which uses newly developed "Canopus HD Codec".
The specs are sketchy, but here is summary.

- Frame Structure; Intra frame compression
- Compression ratio; 1/7
- Resolution; 640x480 to 1920?~1080 (1080/60i)

Canopus also an‚Žounced their future roadmap of HD editing systems.
- HDWS-HQ (using "HQ Codec" for higher picture quality)
- HDWS-NET Station (network and XDCAM/P2 ready)
- HDWS-HDV (for consumer MPEG2 HDV)
- HDWS-Field (Laptop system)

HDWS-1000 prototype will be shown at Inter BEE 2003 Tokyo (from Nov 19).

HDWS-1000 prototype;
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20031112/cano3_03.jpg

Future roadmap of HD editing systems;
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20031112/cano3_08.jpg


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Masa

Here's one that interests Apple users with Vitrual PC, and I'm guessing will make PC users quite happy:

http://www.womble.com/

Not too pricey (Under $125) and can allegedly (more research needed) put HDV BACK to the HD10 and DVHS!

heath

Info on CineForm Aspect HD can be found at www.cineform.com (check out the new website.)

Masa,

Does this turnkey HD system edit HDV?

heath

The turnkey have Their new codec, "Canopus HD Codec" as internal codec.
I assume the board on the system have HD-SDI I/O and you can feed uncompressed HDCAM or DVCPRO-HD signal through it.
I think you can transcode (recompress) MPEG2-HDV, then edit as well as other HD materials.
I still don't have detailed information about this system, but we'll have something more after next week.
Canopus is going to show some HD related systems at InterBEE 2003 (Broadcasting equipment trade show).
I can see another "HDWS-HDV" product name on their future plan chart. This might be a HDV based system.

Masa

THanks, Masa. What's your background?

heath

Don't forget about Adobe's Premiere (http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/main.html) and CineForm's AspectHD (http://www.cineform.com).

heath

Masa, any idea if this new Canopus system will be 1920 x 1080 24P capable?

CineForm's Aspect HD is now available for Premiere Pro to offer the industries highest level from real-time performance of HD editing, using the lastest and slickest editing application.

Also announced a couple of weeks ago is Connect HD an HDV accelerator for Sony's Vegas 4.0.

Read more at www.cineform.com.

MainConcept has something in the works for Premiere Pro. They call it Mpeg Pro and is supposed to edit Mpeg and MicroMV with FireWire preview. It will be available in an SD and a HD version. The website doesn't tell much but it's interresting.

http://www.mainconcept.com/upcoming_products.shtml

Stand by for DeckLink HD and Premiere Pro. Black Magic Designs has just released drivers for the DeckLink SD cards and they are going to release HD drivers soon. A DeckLink HD card is less than $2K and does uncompressed HD and Jpeg for online and offline in very small file sizes.

Dual Xeon and server class MoBo's with PCI-X required. I'd go for a Dell.

http://www.decklink.com

I've been able to use Adobe Premiere to make 1280x720 WM9 HD content from still image time-lapse sequences. You can see a scaled down 5 minute clip here...

http://www.dogsleap.com/videos.cfm

I captured individual frames using a Canon G5 (five megapixel) still camera as 1600x1200 jpegs and then cropped to 1280x720 and processed using photoshop batch actions. I configured Premiere Pro to 1280x720 (Video for Windows editing mode) and imported each sequence as numbered stills.

Scrubbing in the monitor window isn't very smooth until after rendering for the first time, but rendering takes forever (about 6 hours for a five minute clip on my dual 2.8ghz HP). But once the first rendering is done, it scrubs fairly well.

I used Adobe Media Encoder to output a WM9 file 1280x720, 29.97, and bitrate settings set to the maximum (probably overkill) and the 5:20 clip resulted in a 390MB file. It plays beautifully on my computer display (Samsung 213T).

I used Cleaner XL to convert to mp4, m2v, and smaller wmv files.

So, it does work for time-lapse, but it's slow.

Does Vegas 5 capture directly from JVC's HD cams?

I’ve never used Vegas but I use Premiere Pro a little at work.

How does it compare?

Roger

http://www.cineform.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=17

CineForm's Aspect HD supports Vegas.

hwm

Technically in the Connect HD product that support Vegas 4 & 5. Aspect HD is a super-set of Connect HD as it adds the acceleration components from Premiere Pro.

Heath,

Are you saying Vegas 5 cannot capture directly from our HD cams without the Connect HD software from CineForm?

Roger

Yes and No. Vegas has no HDV capture module, but you don't have to use CineForm's (although it is the best :) ). You can still can use the KDDI capture tool that comes with the camera. I would recommend CineForm's Connect HD solution if you want higher editing speed and greater media flexiblilty (manipulate HD is any PC tool.)

David,

I didn’t see your post til after I sent mine. Is Connect HD software from CineForm necessary for capture in addition to the acceleration it provides?

Roger

David,

I would be interested in your opinion comparing Premiere Pro to Vegas 5.

Roger

Vegas 5 and Premiere Pro are both excellent tools. PPro has excellent integration into a bigger workflow by directly linking into After Effects, Photoshop and Encore DVD -- making it have the edge for professional applications. Premiere Pro is also much more expandable than Vegas, as it provides a third party interface to replace much for the Premiere "engine". This is what the CineForm Aspect HD product does to allow for the greatest degree of HD acceleration. Vegas doesn't allow for that level of third party integration. The CineForm's tools make Vegas at least 2 times faster than not using Connect HD, whereas Aspect HD makes Premiere Pro 5 to 6 times faster. You can read more on the CineForm web site.

Edius has a new software-only solution for JVC HDV footage for which the link is tucked away on their Edius software page: costs $1299 retail or $799 educational price.

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUS2.5/pt_EDIUSHDV720P.asp

They've also announced a hardware-based HDV product due to ship in November which could be a winning solution for some people, if you happen to have an extra $4000 lying around and a computer with dual Xeon processors and a 64-bit PCI slot:

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUS_HDV_SP/pm_EDIUS_HDV_SP.asp

One thing to note is that Canopus' approach to HDV is a bit disjointed, with separate products for different purposes and possibly no upgrade options from one to another. For example, no word of any discounts to current Edius customers for buying the HDV products.

I understand that in comparison to the original MPEG-2 HDV, the Cineform format speeds up editing and is better for compositing,

But which will give you better quality in the following situations:

A. Basic cuts, fades, and titles.
B. A straight conversion to another video format. Say SD or MPEG-2 for DVD.

Michael,

First import factor, your will not see any quality lost using a CineForm intermediate compression system like Aspect HD or Connect HD. I understand that logic insists that using the native footage must have a quality benefit, but it simply doesn't in practical editing situations. The long GOP nature of the HDV MPEG-2 means even a simple cut involves a generation loss to re-render the GOP. HDV is not equivelent to DV. In the end (I believe) being able to edit in real-time allows for more create output, and therefore you will get better quality using a product like Aspect HD.

David, I appreciate you may not be able to answer this question at this time. I am interested in how the Adobe update for HDV will differ from the Cineform product.

Ron Evans

Ron,

You will hear all about the benefits of Aspect HD soon. It is important to note that we licensed the components to Adobe in a way to support Aspect HD. We are hoping to gain many new Aspect HD users as a result of this license.

Vegas-6 has now incorporated the CineForm Codec in the version 1.2. It allows direct capturing from the FX1.

In Addition, there are now tools available like Gearshift, that support the full work with proxy files - also in DV-avi format or mjpeg-avi Format if desired.

Currently Vegas 6 does not include the one pass capture/conversion option that is within Connect HD. So there is still several good reasons to use Connect HD with Vegas 6.0. We have just released Connect HD 1.7 as a public beta (http://www.cineform.com/products/ConnectHD.htm) -- this includes to new automatic conversion of the Cineframe (CF24) to 24p and CF25 to 25p, along with many upgraded capture components to improve speed and image quality. Based on the recent beta peroid of Aspect HD 3.1 (now released) I would expect Connect HD 1.7 to be available for purchase very soon.

Yes, the one pass capture/conversion/scene detection is not incorporated in Vegas-6 now.

However, conversion can be done with Gearshift too - and scene detection can be performed with AV-cutty too.

But which will give you better quality in the following situations:

A. Basic cuts, fades, and titles.
B. ...

As awkward as it may sound , to edit my rushes on a lightweight machine, i often use a 50$ MPEG2 editor called Womble MPEG Video Wizard.

http://www.womble.com/products/


I supports "native" M2T files and exports pretty fast without re-compression.
May be you want to give a try to this nice little product..

Yes, womble is a good solution, as long as you do not use the encoder very extensively (because the encoder is poor).

But to cut out advertising from an dvb card - with hard cuts - and render the movie to a new file, is terrible fast, since this tool does not encode at all with hard cuts.

Um, on the cheap hardward for HDV sided I am looking into this tiger direct model that configures for $1360 with the AMD 64 X2 4400 cpu, 512MB, 74gb 10k drive, DVD dual layerl and ati video card with hdtv out. This is a barebones system that has pci-express that I am going in integrate with drives and memory from my current 3.2 intel system.

Then I am lookting at the new Proton (not Protron) 37" lcd native 1920 x 1080p monitor for video out for under $2000. I already have a 20" lcd for editing so I just need a presentation monitor.

This is the cheapest upgrade to pci-express I have come up with. Has anyone else seen a good upgrade path to a pci-x solution for HDV monitor out?

Well you could put a much better system together yourself. I am in Canada and in Canadian dollars for $1700 you could build the following:- Antec TX1050B case with 500w supply, Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra 9, AMD 4400+, 1G Corsair Twin Ram, Seagate 120G boot drive, WD 200G SATA2 storage, Saffire Radeaon X700 256m PCie and LG4163B burner. Look at www.Shoprbc.com for prices here in Ottawa, they only charge a little more to assemble and provide warranty. I think that 1G RAM is minimum more is better, boot drive speed is not very cricital, having more drives for storage of video is better too, a couple of SATA2 drives in RAID 0 would be good.

Ron Evans

Sounds like a sweet deal Ron, Thanks!
Yes I have some parts from my non pci express system which is why I don't need all the memory or video drives. But I DO want a 500w power supply if it is quiet and a good DVD burner as well instead of some oem unknown brand.

I'll look into the site you listed. Thanks again.

The current version of Xpress Pro HD, 5.2 will in fact bring in HDV via 1394, edit and send back to a tape via 1394.

It's on the web site at http://www.avid.com/

We have tested this and we are able to capture from the new JVC camera and lay back to tape. We captured via 1394, did some simple edits and effects and sent the video to a file (a bit of a drawback). From there you can lay back to tape through the Avid interface. It will ask you for the m2t file you wish to lay off to the deck. Note there is, as far as we could see, no way to lay back to a specific TC on the tape. That is, we did a simple "crash" record on the deck and it went to tape.

We did need to render the timeline out and save it to the PC as a file. Then take the file to tape.

The timeline was quite snappy. All in all, it is workable.

We even got it to use the Mojo as a confidence monitor in SD.

Sean McHenry

Glad to hear you were able to get the JVC working, Sean. Avid doesn't officially support the JVC yet, and folks are getting the camera to work on a case-by-case basis. Expect support from Avid soon.

But you can ingest and edit HDV, DVCPro, DVCPro HD, DV, DVCAM and more in the same timeline without any rendering in Avid. In fact, you can edit multicam from different resolutions in the same timeline without rendering, as well.

Avid has a great codec for saving out the files. They call it DNxHD. It is a gorgeous mastering codec that holds up really well. Looks uncompressed but has the footprint of SD.

I'm running all of this on a laptop as well as a workstation. It behaves amazingly well. Looking forward to the HVX200 from Panasonic...I really want to record directly into Avid on the laptop at DVCPro HD resolution with just a firewire.

Regards,

Joe Womble

I will shoot a short movie with a sony fx-1 and edit it on premiere pro 2.0. I hope there is no problem with that?

I did not edit any hd video before, is there something that I should know about it?

How do you export an hd timeline? I know how to make a dvd with dv but how do you it with hd?

Thank you...

Can anyone offer some advice on where I can go for the best HD hardware solutions for Adobe Premiere Pro in Australia- Brisbane especially? Will also require Servicing of the hardware.

hi, folks. i am interested in some places that sell a totally-ready hdv or similar hd format - pc nle (etc) solution. I know 'Boxxtech' sells systems with Adobe Premiere Pro on them, but beyond them - who are they and what do they offer in terms of a total-ready hdv solution? I guess 'Canopus Edius' has these too. What about Newtek Speed Edit bundled into a pc based solution? Any other great solution providers for HDV, DV?
I am not looking to build my own pc from scratch, but to potentially buy a total pc-based solution - no quirks, no bugs - ready to roll. With a software/hardware package that is fairly easy, very clean and ready to go!

THANKS for any input!