The good one: Bogen 3058 legs. They're about 3 feet long. And
sturdy. Has a bubble level. If you want a really solid tripod,
these legs should be considered. Rated to 44 pounds. Twist knob leg locks. Angled center support spreaders with twist knob locks allow it to also go very low (i.e. 16"). Bigger in real life than it looks on B&H site. Tall, very tall. If you have need to shoot over people's heads (e.g. concerts, rallys, sporting events) have a look.
I can walk under it standing up straight!
Not so good tripod: Sony VCT-870RM. Their top-of-the-line Lanc control
model. Rated to 9 pounds. Almost everything is plastic except the legs and bolt sockets. Not too bad in simulating a fluid head, except that even at its loosest, panning actually flexes the legs. With no camera on it on a hard floor, panning will turn the whole tripod. Now, I didn't try it with a cam on. Maybe that would've held it. Lanc arm is switchable left or right but has some flex where it attaches to head. Seems to be a fair amount of flex in the legs. A VX would probably weight the pod down. Better to use a lighter cam with this pod. Didn't actually operate the Lanc
but one thing of note is that the zoom wide and tele are the opposite directions from what's on a cam. Because it's rather flimsy, I would say it's not up to professional use. The worst part of the tripod is the way the quick release plate attaches to the cam. There's very poor design here. Instead of using your fingers
or a coin to turn the bolt in, you actually turn the whole plate. Now, as you are probably aware, there is a small metal protruding piece next to the tripod bolt, which holds the camera in place on the plate. Problem is, you can't turn the plate onto the cam with this "holder piece" sticking out. So what you have to do each time you mount or dismount the cam to the plate, you have to take a screwdriver and unscrew a small metal
plug in the back of the plate and drop a spring and the holder piece out of the plate in order to be able to screw the plate on. Then once you have the plate tightened to the cam, you put the
holder, spring, and plug back in. Problem is, you'll be lucky if the
holes line up exactly when the plate is tightened down. So you'll have to back off the plate from the cam counter-clockwise. Problem is, if you back the plate off, the plate is no longer tight to the cam and the cam will be wobbly on the tripod. And if all this is not bad enough, the icing on the cake is this. That plug that you have to remove each time you put the cam on the tripod (which enables you to drop out the spring and holder piece) is made of fine-threaded metal. The socket you screw that metal plug into is plastic! And it takes care to get it started right. Once that socket strips out, then what. New tripod?

The Bogen 3058 is actually a Manfrotto 161MK2 tripod and is a hefty lout , the tallest in the line. Maximum height is 9 feet and it weights 18 lbs, about double the weight of a garden variety heavy duty pod.

The Bogen # is only used in the US. The rest of the world uses the manfrotto number. Since Manfrotto make it why confuse people. Some of the "Bogen" (manfrotto) products even use the manfrotto model and some don't. To get the specs you have to do a search on the bogen number because manfrotto doesn't list it as a 3058. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

I gotta say Bryan. I've never seen anything like it. The feet are planted 7 feet apart. When I set out to get a tripod I just figured I wanted a tall one in case I needed to get some shots over peoples' heads. I had found one that was about 7 feet. Bogen 3046 I believe. But then at the last minute I ran across the 3058. It takes planning to get it up
and down to it's full height. With a big cam on I almost think it would be good to have two people. That 44 pound rating is at maximum extension, I understand. I do like it though. Real solid
at normal tripod heights. The weight doesn't really bother me.
I'm still trying to figure out the details regarding how to operate
a cam with it up so high. The plan at this point is to put some kind
of extension on the handle--around 3 feet--and use some type of
small field monitor and a Lanc controller. What did I get myself into here?
I know I went on kinda long winded regarding that Sony tripod.
Were you able to understand what I was saying regarding the
problem attaching a cam to it?

See both the "real" Manfrotto codes and the "peculiar" Bogan codes here:

http://www.manfrotto.com

'm still trying to figure out the details regarding how to operate a cam with it up so high.My old Manfrotto 075B legs extended to about 10 feet. One time I stood on a chair placed on a table to get an interesting angle. I never felt so high. I could have gone even higher, in the old church, by placing the tripod on the table, fully extended, but I couldn't figure out how to suspend myself from the ceiling (about a 20 foot ceiling).

So you know how it is, Frank, to see a tripod up that high. It almost looks rediculous. I've thought of standing on ladders
but I need to pan while shooting and the thought of walking on the top of multiple 5 foot ladders while trying to focus and zoom got me a little nervous. I had a vision of something bad happening to not only me but also my cam and the tripod. It wasn't a pretty picture.

And just to add, I was a bit scared standing on that chair on top of the table. I'll never do it again. (Maybe just on a chair, or on a table, but not both).

Frank, that was the site I was reffering to. To find the manfrotto cross reference you have to run a search. The pods are listed haphazardly, some usyng the bogen and manfrotto and some just the manfrotto number. Sometimes there is no cross reference on that site.
Dave
I didn't bother to read beyond your first few comments on the Sony. You saids it was disapointing and knowing you as an excellent judge I took your word for it.

My point on the weight of the manfrotto was on a positive note. No way your going to budge that puppy. Add a new step ladder to your wish list though.

Thanks for the compliment about being a judge. Speaking of which, I've almost completed testing of those 3 dynamic omni mics. I just need to test yet with a woman's voice; hoping to get that done today. I will say, one mistake I made when I first started testing was to use musical selections to test the mics with.
Then, when I tried just vocals, the results changed. It occurred to me then that these mics really weren't intended for music so why test that way. I just did it out of habit because I've used these same musical selections to test sound cards and speakers. There definitely are differences between the mics, with one leading at this point in both sound quality and sensitivity. I have to make my choice by tomorrow.
You guys would agree, wouldn't you, that using music to test these mics would not necessarily be of much benefit?
P.S. Anyone know which of the Bogen heads smaller than the 501
are true fluid heads?

I agree about the mic test. Which ones were you able to get a hold of.

I have a Manfrotto 136 which is now discontinued. I think the 501 is the most reasonable , decent head.

I was thinking of something smaller than the 501 because it's for
a monopod. I have the 682B, the one with the flip-out feet.
Isn't it true that sometimes they'll list heads as being "fluid heads" but they don't necessarily have fluid in them? Or can I trust their claims?

Anyone know which of the Bogen heads smaller than the 501 are true fluid heads?That's Manfrotto's smallest fluid head. I had the slightly smaller 136 head, which was very good, but it was a "fluid action" head (no brake fluid). :)

How are those fluid action heads? And is it really brake fluid in there?

Dave:

Stealing a trick from our brethren in still photography...get one of those mini 3 step ladders at home depot, and get some plumbing insulation foam to tape at the top where your knees would hit the bar. That should give you all the height you needed and can be handily swung over the shoulder and dosent take up a lot of space. Best thing its less than thirty bucks and works good for running and gunning handheld work to....

M

And is it really brake fluid in there?Something like that. Maybe motorcycle front fork oil? The 501 is smoother, by just a tad. I believe Bryan also owns a 136 fluid action head. I recently went with even the cheaper 128RC head, but had it "lifted."

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Largent : Not so good tripod: Sony VCT-870RM...The worst part of the tripod is the way the quick release plate attaches to the cam. There's very poor design here. Instead of using your fingers or a coin to turn the bolt in, you actually turn the whole plate....-->>>

I have this tripod, Dave, and the attachment of the quick-mount plate to the camera base *is* via the usual thumb screw. If you were looking in a store they must have lost the part and had their display jury-rigged with another.

I do agree that the tripod is too flimsy, though, and also the legs are too short to straddle the audiitorium seat in front of me, which is a shooting arrangement I frequently want to use.

I will say that the zoom controller works very well.

__
Fred

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Largent : I was thinking of something smaller than the 501 because it's for
a monopod. I have the 682B, the one with the flip-out feet.
Isn't it true that sometimes they'll list heads as being "fluid heads" but they don't necessarily have fluid in them? Or can I trust their claims? -->>>

You cannot trust their claims in this case. The 501 is not a fluid head. Nor is the 503.

Really? I thought the 503 *was* a true fluid head.

I do not believe so, Dave. To a lesser degree it is reported to have stiction problems just like the 501.

The problem is that the manufacturers think that when they slop some silicon oil/grease between two disks, that makes a fluid head. Well, maybe in the strictest sense. But not in the sense that we all want extremely good motion control with our tripod heads.

But if you compare the 503 action against something like the head on a Miller D-5 or Vision 3 Vinten head you can immediately tell the difference.

Don't take this as truth, because it could be completely wrong. Wish I had the reference, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Bogen 503 and all Bogen heads below it use Teflon discs as bearing surfaces, thus the stiction problems.

The 516 is a true fluid head, for sure.

It is in the bottom of the price range to be a 'real' fluid head at around $475 give or take.

Buy cheap legs if you must. Never cheap heads if you can help it.

That said, I use some terrible heads for fixed applications. They work very well for quick setups and locked down cameras.

The 516 has fluid modules something like a Satchler has... the Cartoni heads are some of the cheapest true fluid heads you can get. Vintens are lubricated friction heads like the Gitzo 1380 and many others. That's not to say they aren't top of the line heads with perfect movement... but if you want to know what heads REALLY are fluid heads you have to check the individual model. This is another one of those topics where a lot of assumptions are made based on what you'd expect from a particular name.

I've got a 1380 and I laugh at how it says "fluide" on the side of it. What the hell is "fluide"? Anyway... I expect that the Vinten V3 is probably the same head... they're identical in weight, load, balance. Still you gotta' love the white finish of the Vintens... it screams "this 'aint your uncle's tripod".

Fred Retread? Are you the same Fred Retread from the Firestone Tire Shop down the street? Man I love that name. When I signed up I considered making something up like Max Zoom, but then I realized that I put so much effort in giving good information that I want to get credit for it. Also you've gotta' respect all these guys on here that back up their advice with their real name... give's 'em more credibility in my opinion.

The 516 head, is the lowest in the line of PRO heads that are produced by Bogen.

The 501, 503, etc; are all in the just video application gengre (non pro) fricition operation via composit discs' that rub together. No Fluid's involved.

The 516, (which I own), because of it's price/effectivness, is the reason that the big O'C, and others are moving to emulate it.

For the small cam's, that we most discuss in this format, and, in the future will be the norm, it is a hands down winner.

The 516 has fluid modules something like a Satchler has... the Cartoni heads are some of the cheapest true fluid heads you can get. Vintens are lubricated friction heads like the Gitzo 1380 and many others. That's not to say they aren't top of the line heads with perfect movement... but if you want to know what heads REALLY are fluid heads you have to check the individual model. This is another one of those topics where a lot of assumptions are made based on what you'd expect from a particular name.
Are you referring to all cartoni's or a couple in particular. I was looking at the ap10 and f100.
What are the biggest differences (aside from price) between the bogen 516, cartoni ap10/f100, gitzo 1380, satchler dv-4ii, and vinten vision-3? Is the v3 2x as good as the bogen? I like that the gitzo comes with all the springs. I don't like that the bogen only has 1 fixed spring.
JJ