Hello.

i am about a week or so away from finally picking a camera and making the purchase.

i have it narrowed down to the pd-170 or the dvx-100

i have a project i want to do in mid-january and i want to get the camera now to get used to it before the project.

any clue when the dvx-100a is coming out? i called b&h and they didn't know what the dvx-100a was and asked me why the hell i wanted a dvx-100 if i wasn't absolutely going to film.

is the dvx-100a that much better that i'm going to kick myself for getting a dvx-100?

i'm still trying to weight the benefits of the dvx-100 vs. the pd-170

matthew

>>any clue when the dvx-100a is coming out? i called b&h and they didn't know what the dvx-100a was and asked me why the hell i wanted a dvx-100 if i wasn't absolutely going to film.<<

Don’t ever take advice from a salesman. The DVX100 is not just good for going to film, that's nonsense.

>>is the dvx-100a that much better that i'm going to kick myself for getting a dvx-100?<<

I don’t know the answer to this one.

>>i'm still trying to weight the benefits of the dvx-100 vs. the pd-170<<

I say go for the DVX100 over the PD170, hands down. The PD170 is only a minor upgrade over the old PD150, and it’s basically selling itself off of the Sony brand name. In fact, the PD170 should not be compared to the DVX100, it should be compared to the DVC80.

It's at least 30 days on the DVX100a. I've talked to several dealers that expect them the end of January. I'm not sure Panasonic has an official US date yet.

so i have the project in mid january that i want to do and i have one in late february that i have got to do and i am tired of waiting to get a really good camera...

i used to have unlimited usage of a trv-900 and a vx-1000 but now i really need to get a 3 chip of my own.

if i keep waiting there will always be another new camera on the horizon.

if you were me and this assumes you know the dvx-100 and hopefully own one, would you just suck it up and get a dvx100 and not hold your breath waiting for the 100a to come out?

i don't want to rent anything and waste money on that, plus i want to get really used to the camera before the projects are to be done. renting just doesn't seem like a viable option. i can't imagine renting unless i already had one and needed an additional one for a specific time-frame/project.

matthew

Why would a salesman try to steer your towards a PD170? Hmmm... Salesmen (especially high-pressure salesmen) will typically try to steer you towards whatever's in THEIR best interest, not yours.

In any case, definitely get a DVX100 or DVX100A. The question "is the DVX100A worth waiting for" should be answered tomorrow -- when we know what the price will be (assuming Panasonic makes an announcement about it at DV Expo).

I have a DVX100, I love it to death and think you'd be very happy with it, but if the price difference is $500 or less, I'd say definitely go for the "A". If the price difference is $1000 or so, well, that becomes a more difficult choice, but at a difference of $500 the DVX100A over DVX100 is a no-brainer.

If I were you, with the upcoming projects as you have, here's what I'd do:

1) wait a day or two to hear what the official announcement of the DVX100A price & availability will be.

2) consider that even if the DVX100A is released in time, there may be backorders -- you may not be able to get one!

3) consider buying a used one off ebay, using it for your projects, then either just keep it, or re-sell it on ebay to recover your investment and then buy the DVX100A when they're easily available.

I wouldn't sell my DVX100 cheap just to upgrade to a DVX100A, but if I was in the market for a new camera I would definitely prefer the DVX100A, assuming the price difference is reasonable.

Are these upcoming projects contract (paying) assignments or personal projects?

The DVX100A promises some notable changes to the camera. Renting a DVX100 for a non-postponable short-term commercial requirement makes perfect sense when compared to potentially missing this upgrade.

Renting may also make good sense if these are just personal hobby projects that cannot be postponed. After all, we're talking about a few hundred dollars of short-term rental expense -vs- several thousand dollars in committed capital.

I'd just advise you not to let emotional gear lust get in the way of practical financial decisions. Most of us tend to fabricate excuses for our own irrational behaviors which we later lament. (Spoken as a former victim of same.)

Think of sitting there at your computer one year from today. Your not-so-new DVX100 is on the desk next to you as you read threads titled like, "Hey Dudes, The DVX100A Rocks! It Makes the DVX100 Look Like Doggy Poo Poo"

How does that vision square with your current needs?

good advice.

all of my stuff is just hobbyist stuff.

my hang-up with renting is that the first project is at least 5-7 days and i haven't used a dvx-100 before, so i don't want to be in a panic to get it a few days earlier and rush to learn it, or worse, not quite learn it and the footage is crap!

where is the best place to rent a dvx-100?

i'm going to be buying the audio gear once i audition the few finalists i have it narrowed down to, so it will just be a matter of the camera.

also, is there a really extended run battery that folks have had good luck with? are there off camera setups that are recommended? i.e. belt packs? i've only use sony stuff and it was always np-950 batteries which would last quite a while on a vx-1000.

matthew

Hmmm... rental rates are hovering around $150 to $175 for a DVX100, so renting for seven days... that's $1000... that starts to not make sense. I'd definitely consider buying used, using it, then re-selling it, I'm sure you'll take much less of a hit than $1000!

For long-life batteries, the CGR-D54 is the ticket. It'll run for nearly six hours.

If and when someone finds out from DVexpo West the availabilty and price of DVX100a, please post!!!

Ouch, yeah, renting could be a problem. You are stuck in a hard place. You're going to have to bite the bullet one way or the other....buy the DVX100 and miss the 100a or pay $1000ish to wait for the 100a, or do as Barry said, buy the 100, use it and sell it used to upgrade to 100a, losing about $500ish (depending on use). The latter sounds good to me...but, then again, you're not me....good luck...

Or, buy the PD170 and miss 24fps?????

Well, the rates that Barry notes (whew!) would wobble the decision scale a bit. I'm just not an optimist when it comes to the reliability of the resale market for consumer electronics, particularly if you're trying to sell after the 'A' is on the market.

Well, if nothing else you at least have some of the pro's and con's presented here, Matthew!

>>Hmmm... rental rates are hovering around $150 to $175 for a DVX100, so renting for seven days... that's $1000...<<

Actually, there are 3 days in a rental week, so it would come to $450 a week (for 150.00 a day.)

Matthew:

Try Boston Camera at 617-277-2200, a jaunt down the Pike. They rent the DVX-100 for $150 a day, and as Glenn indicated they would probably do a 3-day week.

Alternately, you might try tapping into the nascent Northampton/Easthampton filmmaking scene that I hear whispers about. It's possibly some cash-strapped filmmaker may be interested in making a few hundred renting out their camera for a week.

Agreed that it would be a tough time to buy a DVX100 right now, especially new. You could also keep an eye on ebay and various DV forums for people selling off their cameras in anticipation of the new model.

Is anyone at DVExpo and have they asked the Panny folks when the 100A will be available in the states?

it's interesting, it was at the northampton film festival that i first saw the dvx-100 at the boston camera booth!

its a tough decision, i have two projects between now and late february and neither one can be put off, both are one time shots and both are multi day shoots.

one is 3 days in miami and then a road trip from miami to upstate new york with 2 more days in upstate new york.

the other is a convention that is 3 days long in late february.

both are just for fun and both have decent potential for film festival type submissions.

matthew

I'm at DV Expo West and will ask Pana tomorrow about their shipping date.

thank you! that would be great

matthew

I was in that same quandry last summer... almost bought a friends XL and then when I tested it... it lacked the clarity of the frame grabs I saw posted here from the DVX... then it was down to the PD 150 VS the DVX and then the rumors of the 170 and then I finally decided on the DVX and it is GREAT... the image at 30P looks like 16mm... the Clarity... the Contrast... NO CONTEST

However!! Am I kicking my a**?! I DO wish I could have the DVX100-A for the autofocus in 30P which I miss.... and the improved zooom servo... and... and...

Since your projects are for fun and not for profit... I would wait for the newer model... you'll be glad you did and you'll probably try to keep it for a long time...

OR maybe you want to buy my relatively (3months old) new DVX and I'll get the upgrade!! Ha Ha

Just DO IT!

Yes, thanks Chris -- looking forward to hearing....

well it looks like i'm going to wait till early january and if the dvx-100a isn't out or on the way i'll decide then.

the auto-focus feature is something i think i would wish i had, if i were to get a dvx-100 now.

so much of what i want to do will be on the run.

matthew

The DVX100A should be available in quantity by the end of this year. However, let me address something else you said:


so much of what i want to do will be on the run.

Using autofocus in 24P "on the run" is a recipe for soft-focus disaster.

The "autofocus" system, when engaged in 24P, is VERY SLOW. It has to be -- it's getting information from the CCD's at a rate of only 40% as fast as in 60i.

You CANNOT expect to get quick-response autofocus in the progressive-scan modes -- it's just too slow to keep up. That's why Panasonic doesn't even call it "autofocus", they call it "focus assist". The only way it should be used, when in 24P or 30P modes, is to set the camera in manual focus, zoom in, press and hold the "hold for auto" button, and let the focus assist mechanism "assist" you in finding what the proper focus point should be.

You are of course free to do whatever you'd like, but I guarantee you that if you're trying to do run 'n' gun news-style gathering in 24P, you're going to have a lot of out-of-focus shots. That's not what the "focus assist" is designed for, and I'm certain that's why Panasonic disabled it in the first place -- they'd rather have customers griping about a disabled feature instead of being furious because all their footage is out of focus...

I had a lengthy conversation with the Panasonic rep in Houston last week and he said we may see the 100a as soon as the end of this year but they should start showing up (en mas) in January.
I was told that I could pre order one at my local dealer and left a deposit, the rep said he'd try to get me one ASAP.

Mark

my 2 cents

did you happen to get an acutal price from your pre-order. I know it is going to be $200 more then the 100, but does that mean that the street price is $34-3500, or is it going for the list price of $3900?

i would love to get the name/contact info of someone at b&h who would acknowledge that they even knew a dvx-100a existed.

matthew

What the Panasonic rep told me was that it's expected to be $200 to $400 more than the DVX100 street price, that would make it in the $3400 to $3600 range (a bargain either way). Although the dealers don't have ordering info yet i.e. stock numbers etc. it should be any day now. I didn't order mine from B&H. I decided to support a local dealer who has been giving me great service, and their pricing is VERY competitive .

Mark

my2cents :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : let me address something else you said:

Using auto focus in 24P "on the run" is a recipe for soft-focus disaster.-->>>

This was also the reason for me waiting for the 100a, I have the opportunity to do a show in 04 that is totally "Crock Hunter" style and thought the auto focus would be a plus even if not that fast. I have been watching show after show on the prime time networks, where there are 3 to 5 seconds of totally out of focus shots in an unbelievable number of clips. I guess they figure it either doesn't matter if the dialog is engaging enough or it adds a "street shooter" kind of look.

The way I see it is that the (TV) viewing public is being so bombarded with this type of imagery that they will become accustomed to it and therefore expect it in those types of shows. With people getting used to it, it will allow small crews (like a crew of one - me) to concentrate on creating interesting content, albeit not perfect.

I do however get very undone when MY stuff isn't sharp, and have tossed out more than a few hours of out of focus clips. I have noticed that if it starts soft and locks up fairly fast it seems to work or can be useable, but if it's just out of focus it's still crap in my book.

Every little step is a step in the right direction

my2cents

Mark

i have called b&h and they keep trying to tell me to get a pd-170

?

they don't even have a notification list to let you know when they will be taking orders for the dvx-100a

how are they in person? because in email and via phone they just don't seem too motivated to take my money either for the camera or for the sennheiser wireless setup i want.

i just had a few questions and i thought it would be good to ask them ahead of time before i get in the showroom full of toys to distract me.

do they just work better in person?

matthew

Matthew,
In my experience B&H is the best of the best. They are also the busiest of the busy.

Be patient. The 100A is an announced product but I am sure that Panasonic Broadcast has not yet committed to shipment schedules and allocations on the 100A. I am equally certain that B&H has a very well-defined process that dictates when they can begin taking back-orders and notification orders for new products.

I do believe the PD has faster focus (due to the nature of 60i) and probably has better low light capability, but that by no means makes it a better camera. The DVX100a is clearly a more advanced system. I know two pro video houses in Houston that after getting one DVX eBayed all the sony PD150s and replaced them all with the Panasonics. To be fair I have not seen a side by side comparison but I have to believe that if seasoned pros are switching, they must know something. (One guy told me he has mothballed his BetaCam since he got the DVX100). Of course if I had the bux I'd have them both (DVX & PD), I'm sure it would bring more work, and are both awesome rigs. Okay so my long winded point is don't get something any unknown telephone salesperson recomends, you never know what kind of incentive they are working for (sorry B&H). Get what you know is the right camera for you. I have a local dealer I trust and I have interviewed 20+ people, all of whom have used both, that's why I decided to get DVX100a. If you get something pro's are switching to, I can't see how you can go wrong.

you never know what kind of incentive they are working for (sorry B&H)

This is wrong, over the years B & H Photo has prided itself with the fact that their sale people are not paid incentives, or spiffs, as they are know in the industry.

Just received this email.. good news!

"You'd mentiond the forthcoming Panasonic AG-DVX100A camera. I just got email of it's official existance, price, and that it's now a shipping product."

Glenn Baker
Videotex Systems, Inc.

So go buy one already!

Mark

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : This is wrong, over the years B & H Photo has prided itself with the fact that their sale people are not paid incentives, or spiffs, as they are know in the industry. -->>>

I stand corrected about B&H. I was replying to a statement about them but my remarks were more intended for the hundreds of other vendors that live by the spif..


Thanks for correcting me Jeff!

Mark


once again ....