Hi. I was rewinding a tape (or attempting to) when I see an eject message in my Canon XL1s's viewfinder. I stick the tape back in, and then it tells me to eject the tape. When I pull it out, the physical tape is stuck in the heads of the camera. I got it out and fixed it with no breakage, but jeez!

I don't abuse my camera, and the tape has been safely stored in its case since I finished shooting on it.

The only thing I can think of is that I was at the very very very end of the tape, to where it told me I was at the end of the tape, when I tried to rewind it. Is this possibly the problem?

Also, the tape I used is a panasonic, but not a kind that I'm familiar with. I'd been using the cream colored ones, or white, or whatever, and this one is black and says "LinearPlus." Is this is generic tape or something? Why does God hate me so?

You should have bought a Sony, JVC or Panasonic.

Frank is dead on the money. Your best bet is to pick one of those he mentioned and stick with it.


i've been using Sony's for 4 years and never had a problem. Other people use Panasonic's and like them to. Just make sure you stick with one or the other.

Choose one flavor and stick with it. If you've been using the Panasonic AY-DVM series (the cream colored ones with the blue lid), then don't switch. The black "linear plus" is a consumer grade tape with a different formulation and different lubrication. That's where you probably ran into trouble. Be sure to run a head-cleaning cassette for a few seconds before going back to the Pana pro series.

Okay, I guess that worked. What I meant, though, was buy a Sony, JVC or Panasonic video camera. And I wasn't serious.

Dammit, I got those tapes cause this lady I shot for told me a local place was having a sale on minidv tapes (3.99 each, and they're usually about 7 or 8 bucks). Those were the tapes the place gave me. I requested the pro series, or whatever they're called, and they claimed the LinearPlus were the only ones they had. Bastards. Now I have five of them.

Never, never go for cheap prices or special sales, especially with DV tape. DV tape is *already* the *least expensive* part of the entire chain of gear, so always buy the best you can. Otherwise, as you found out, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

<<<-- Originally posted by frank_granovski : Okay, I guess that worked. What I meant, though, was buy a Sony, JVC or Panasonic video camera. And I wasn't serious. -->>>

I knew what you meant Frank.
Obviously needed to be a regular (or ex-regular) of the dv.com forums to understand your ways ;)

For the benefit of the person asking the original question, please, let's keep the "shoulda gotta Ford" comments to a bare minimum and concentrate on offering useful advice.

Much respect,

Since we're on it, I just want to be clear: I've heard the Panasonics are better than the Sonys several times, even though they should be completely the same, and the Pro Series (White ones, right?) of the Panasonics are the best of that particular brand. That sound about right?

Years ago, Fuji made the best tape, then Panasonic came out with good tape, and now Sony makes some good higher quality tape. I've had bad experience with JVC tapes, and lots of people on boards mentioned problems with Maxell and TDK. That's all I know for what's it's worth. Oh yeah, and don't mix tapes. Pick one, and if you're happy with it, stick with it.

Thank you. I was wondering if anyone can recommend a particular brand that's superior to the others? Should I use the remaining tapes as table leg stabilizers?

Or use them to lash together a raft like in "Cast Away." Guess since it's miniDV tape, it'd have to be more like a float than a raft.

I'm sure that others will recommend other brands of the same quality...but I use the Panasonic DVM63MQ tapes. If you buy a whole case, the price drops way down (at least over here it does). There are five tapes to a box, and ten boxes to a case.

What's the price per tape on those? I can't convey to you how ridiculous it would be right now for me to buy a box of five that will take me several months to a year (so far, my employers have provided me with tapes for their shoots) to go through, let alone a case.

I bought a case (50) of DVM63MQ for $6.80/tape from www.taperesources.com. I think they offer the same price if you order at least 5. Shipping was $12.40 for the 10# box.

Chris, I know they are not your preferred vendor, but in this case, Pro-Tape was almost $2 more/tape. Since a lot of us use the DVM63MQ, maybe you can convince them (Pro-Tape) to give community members a special price. I'll gladly use your sponsors as long as their prices are in the ball park.

Ok,,since I'm new to this let me ask ,,,I bought some Sony tapes The tape is black,,,the tapes just say Sony Premium. So is this just a cheaper grade of tape? And since I have only used a small amunt of tape since I got my XL-1s it won't hurt to switch to a better grade of tape. Whne looking for tapes I want one that the tape is creamed colored? Thanks

I'm a Houston native, as (I believe) my info says. Anyone out there know a good place to go in Houston for tapes? I think there'e a protape here, but please don't recommend Industrial Audio/Video, as they charge about 10 bucks per tape.

Yes, ytou need to go to Pro-tape, they will treat you right and besides they help sponsor this site. So when you buy from them, you're helping to support the message boards you're using. Thanks,

Chris I don't see the link to Pro tape,,,,what is it? So is the cream color tape the best?

Didn't someone say they were $2 more per tape? I'm
po'.

Go to my site at www.dvinfo.net and click on "Sponsors." You'll find them there. Those tapes are worth the extra measly $2 especially when you consider the alternative of having your shots ruined. If you're on a budget, consider which is more expensive: $2 or having to do your shoot all over again. I'd rather spend $2. Hope this helps,

I was looking at some of the tapes at pro tape. The panasonic ay DVM tapes come in like a PQ or MQ,,,is there much of a differnce besides the $6.00? You guys talked about not changing tapes,,,if I just want to do some normal shooting and what to use a DVM63 PQ, then say I'm going to do a wedding and want to use the DVM63 MQ that won't hurt anything will it?

The same thing started happening to me recently. At first it seemed like it was only FUJI mini-dv tapes that my Canon-Xl-1 would reject. One day it actually ate the tape and wouldn't let me eject it - that was scary cause it was on a shoot. I had just purchased about 20 FUJI tapes on sale, and assumed that it was just this brand that wasn't compatible or something. In fact a friend of mine with the same camera had experienced problems with FUJI tapes in the past as well, where it would flash eject for no reason.

Anyway, I went through different brands of tapes, included some that I had successfully recorded on (Panasonic, Sony..) and now they all give me problems.

Most of the work I do doesn't require the use of a DV tape - I record directly to 1/2" decks - so i'm ok for now. The problem is that since I live in Vancouver, it would take 6-8 weeks to send my camera to Canon out east.. ARGH!

Jeff

<<<-- Originally posted by Zimvg304 : Ok,,since I'm new to this let me ask ,,,I bought some Sony tapes The tape is black,,,the tapes just say Sony Premium. So is this just a cheaper grade of tape? And since I have only used a small amunt of tape since I got my XL-1s it won't hurt to switch to a better grade of tape. Whne looking for tapes I want one that the tape is creamed colored? Thanks -->>>

According to the owner of a documentary production company I know, Sony Premium is an excellent tape, great for all around use, with negligable differences between more expensive tapes. It's what he uses in his XL1 (which I bought off him) and XL1s.
Hope this answers your question some.

I'm not sure about the Sony tapes, but I know FUJI are supposed to be higher grade than Panasonic (and cost more). I really don't see how this would be an issue anyway. I mean Mni-DV is a standard, and it's not like Canon makes their own tapes that they recommend..

I think my point was that if FUJI really are high grade then it should have been the brand that killed my camera. I think it's just a problem with the loading mechanism being slightly out of alignment. Each tape could have a certain threshold where one tape would cause slightly more problems in a miss-aligned camera than another but I don't think that the tape could be considered a cause.

Jeff

Actually, here in Vancouver, I find Fuji miniDV tapes cheaper than Panasonic. Try London Drugs and Superstore. They usually have deals on Fuji tape once a month. Buy them in a 2 or 3 pack.

By far the cheapest place for tapes in Vancouver is the Tape House in Burnaby. In fact they have a sale on right now for Fuji MiniDV at about $7 a piece (as opposed to $12 at London Drugs). Minimum 5 pack though..

Jeff

Hi,

I don't know about today, but back in the 80's and 90's Panasonic was not a tape manufacture. In fact, Fuji was the company that made all of Panasonics pro grade tapes. Panasonic used to freely admit it and were actually very proud that Fuji tape was in their wrapper. I don't know if that's the case today. Chris, maybe you could ask someone at one of the shows you attend and let us know.

Jeff

Well, :-) I guess I am "welcome to the club". My XL-1s started eating tapes, too. The problem occurs WHEN REWINDING only. I get the sign “remove the cassette” and when I pull out the tape, sometimes it is “regurgitated”, sometimes not. I also noticed that the time indicator is flickering when rewinding. This proved to be a good sign that the tape will be rejected if not even destroyed.

I used to use JVC tapes DVM63ME purchased as a “special deal” for approximately $7.00 a piece. With first 11 tapes I did not have any problems. Very smooth rewinding. Then I purchased two more. The same brand, the same quality. (Followed your advice guys about the same brand, same oil, etc. It made sense to me.) Well, the tape #13 was the “lucky” one. Some beautiful materials from my birthday party (also July 13) were “regurgitated”. However, on a Mac platform I succeeded to recover a lot of stuff though the camera did not want to play the tape anymore, but a Mini DV player in the lab did.

Then I read even more about the tape eating problem on this site. I cleaned the head of the camera with the Sony cleaning tape following your instructions and decided to “convert” to the best. As I read here, I purchased a few Panasonic DVM63MQ tapes to test them. The recording was great, but I was able to see it only once. When rewinding the tape, again the same problem. The tape was first rejected. I clean the head one more time following the instructions on the Sony cleaning tape. Then the tape was regurgitated. I cleaned the head one more time. And again the tape regurgitated. I felt … you know how.

What should I do now? Send the camera to Canon?

Thanks for your advices,

Denis,

I am having the *EXACT* problem as you describe, EVEN AFTER SENDING THE CAMERA TO CANON SERVICE. My only difference is that I am using Fuji tape. I am currently awaiting a shipment of the Panasonic DVM63MQ tapes and a rewinder. I shot a commercial with this camera last week and I've had a difficult time getting the footage into the computer.

Have you, or anyone else who has experienced this problem, had an issue with dropped frames? I have to babysit my capture process because my NLE (FCP3) keeps aborting the capture because of dropped frames or broken TC, even though there are no TC breaks on the tape.

This is not cool.

Bill

Denis,

Just for kicks, when did you get your camera? I got mine in November and it didn't get hungry until June. We are even pretty close on the number of tapes used. Spooky

Bill

Hey Bill,

Sorry to hear that anybody has had the same problem. So, and you say that your camera did not get fixed in the service. That’s a scary piece of information. So, what are you doing about it? What does the warranty say? What kind of Fuji tapes did you use?

I got my camera in March (Series PL). I did not use it much at the beginning. Now when I need it more then ever, my baby is sick. J I will have to cancel a project I guess. How long did your repair last, Bill?

Mini DV decks seem to be extremely helpful in recovering clips. That’s what I am working on now at the university and looking for a good and reasonably priced one for myself. I succeeded to recover most of the files, but using the simplest solution: iMovie.

I wish us all good luck. :-)

Hey Bill,

This won't solve your tape problem, but with FCP3 you can set your preferences to capture video through timecode breaks.

Uncheck the box "abort capture on time breaks", or something like that.

At least that will make life a little easier.

Mike Avery

Denis,

I'm waiting to see if the change to the highly recommended MQ tape makes any sort of difference while rewinding. If not, it's going back up to North Jersey. I did buy a rewinder from pro-tape, so that will help with wear on the camera regardless. I was using Fuji DVM60 ME tape. The strange thing is this problem didn't begin until I got my last shipment of tape. I don't know is this is just a coincidence or not. I will say that I have never had problems with head clogs until this last batch of tape. That is another reason I've decided to change brands.

As far as the trip to service, it took only 3 days, and that is including the time for shipping. It was covered under the warranty. If you haven't joined the owner's club, I highly recommend it.

I've been looking at different decks, but the money tree in the back yard is a little barren right now.

Mike,

I've had a problem with audio going wildly out of sync if I don't abort capture. That could just be an issue with dropped frames, but with the project I'm working on I don't want to recapture and risk another tape getting eaten.

I'll post back with results after my new tape arrives.

Bill

Good luck, Bill. Let us know what happened. BTW, what kind of “rewinder” did you get? How much did it cost you? For some reason I could not find it on the pro-tape's web site. As to my plans in regard to Mini DV decks, see my new thread entitled JVC SR-VS30U?

1) I've never rewound a tape in my XL1s and never will just to avoid this very problem.

2) I've shot on DVM63MQ and the AY-DVM60EJ3P (Linear Plus) and I've done a side by side comparison and I can't detect a difference at all. Not to mention, I've never encountered a problem with the "Linear Plus" tapes in 3 years in either of my GL1's or my XL1s.

My .02

http://store.yahoo.com/protape/simmindvrew.html

Hopefully this will help.

Bill

Bill, thanks for the link. Let us know about the eating habits of your XL-1s. :-) I am preparing mine for a vacation in California.

Mr. Cisco, honestly thanks for your advice. However, it seems to me that our babes are a little bit too sensitive if they are not supposed to rewind a tape ever.

What if my producer wants to sneak into my materials a bit on the set and look at them on the LCD? Should I tell him that my camera cannot (or is not supposed to) rewind a tape? Sorry, but if I were that producer, I would question the quality of that camera and if I want it on my project.

Please, do not mind my comments.

Best of luck,

<<<-- Originally posted by Denis Basic : Bill, thanks for the link. Let us know about the eating habits of your XL-1s. :-) I am preparing mine for a vacation in California.

Mr. Cisco, honestly thanks for your advice. However, it seems to me that our babes are a little bit too sensitive if they are not supposed to rewind a tape ever.

What if my producer wants to sneak into my materials a bit on the set and look at them on the LCD? Should I tell him that my camera cannot (or is not supposed to) rewind a tape? Sorry, but if I were that producer, I would question the quality of that camera and if I want it on my project.

Please, do not mind my comments.

Best of luck, -->>>


No, I don't mean that the XL1s is too sensitive for rewinding. I just have a fear of a tape getting eaten in there and creating a mess. Also, it's less wear and tear on the parts by using a DV deck or a rewinder.

Got my XL1s in Feb and by March it had started eating tapes just as described. Knowing I am not alone has made me feel a little better :)

Does any body know where to get a MiniDv Rewinder in UK?

Thanks

Jon