As we are working closely with JVC to complete Lumiere HD, our Final Cut Pro HDV editing solution which will be released at NAB, I've been invited to have dinner with the person responsible for developing the new HD10U.

This gentleman will be in town from Japan and is looking to gather a wish list for the new model.

I am looking to the experts on this board to help me compile this list.

Example:
24p
3 CCDs (unlikely for the price range)
True manual controls of exposure
Etc...

My meeting is Thursday, March 4th. In 2 days!

Go at it folks...

Thanks,

Frederic Haubrich
Lumiere Media

Almost everything can be summed up by saying it this way: take the JVC DV5000U, and add HD chips to it.

The DV5000U is a magnificent camera with almost every feature a pro needs. Good form factor, great audio, full professional controls. Just add HDV. And double or quadruple the price... an HDV DV5000U could sell for $10,000 and they'd sell every one they make.

Barring that, take the Panasonic DVX100 and plug HDV chips into it. The DVX100 is a nearly perfect handheld camera. Adding HDV resolution would make it an out-of-the-park home run. 24P (or, if you must, 25P), 16:9, high-def, with DVX caliber audio and image controls... what more could someone want? Sell it for under $5000 and it will also be a huge hit.

What I'd like to see in order of importance to me :) ;


NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT!
HD MONITORING VIA COMPONENT VIDEO!
Less chroma noise
More user flexibility/control for focus, shutter speed & aperture
3 CCDs (I know it's probably a pipe dream)
Transport controls on the top of the camera or possible other location
Longer zoom lens (maybe 12X or so)
Higher pixel resolution in the viewfinder (for all versions)
Alternate codes for the remote control so it doesn't run both the camera and D-VHS machine at the same time
Better bundled editing software (Perhaps Vegas, Media Pro or Premiere Pro SEs?)
Smart shoe (for the more consumer oriented version)
JVC branded accessories (lighting etc)
Eliminate the 480i DV mode. It really serves no purpose and I don't think too many people use it or would use it. 480p, 720p & 1080i.


What I don't want changed;


Resolution (unless it can be upped to 1080i)
Lens (unless it can be improved for the same price point)
Zoom rocker feel
Build quality
Price point (not by too much)
Size (it's just about perfect)


That's all I can think of for now. I love this camera!

Troy

I've been Beta testing the Lumiere HD product - it's awesome.

Also, special thanks to Frederic Haubrich of Lumiere Media - this guy puts his money where his mouth is. Thanks Frederic for making great efforts and coming through. I'm looking forward to the final Lumiere HD.

Also, before I forget......my wish list is:

Full manual controls, better outputs, 3 CCD's (or tweak the damn thing, so it looks better with 1 CCD in low light), 24p etc....and most importantly, better customer service.

The main thing is no more CRIPPLED cameras!! Geez.

Murph

Let me put in a plug for lightweight cameras. Many of these wishes stated above imply a heavier and bulkier camera. I'd like to see the HDV format migrate to the pocket sized cameras like the Sony PC-105.

Oh no! Please no "pocket sized" HDV cameras before a full-sized one!

Thanks!

1. Just bring out one model to cover all areas of the globe, dont make a distinction between PAL/NTSC models, only release a HDV model. (Just change the GR-PD1 to shoot 720p at 25fps, if this cant be done release the PD1 with the same shooting modes as the HD1).

2. allow 720p output via component out.

3. Address chroma noise issues.

4. Better manual controls.

5. Control over Edge Enhancement settings. (Ability to turn off as much as possible)

6. New capture utility with choice to output to other codecs.

7. Release software/firmware updates to correct crippled PD1 model and allow shooting in HD.

My wishes!

Consumer priced model with NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT!!! Or at least some control over it.

Less Chroma Noise.

Hopefully better manual controls.

Oh yeah - NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT in a Hd camera, please!

Ask him 'off the record' about which features are kept off the camera for marketing rather than technical issues.
In particular, ask about manual controls.
They spent 10 times as much time on making the HD10 function as a digital still camera that it would have taken to add manual controls to the exposure. Half the user manual is devoted to the useless digital still camera features. I've never used it for a still picture.
-Les

I agree with Les - tell them to forget about the still aspect of the camera. It's not why we're buying the camera - and if anyone says they are buying it for that let's beat them up.

Please make sure that the main issues discussed here for the last year are taken care of...and also please keep the camera under $5,000!

Thanks!

I agree with Les - tell them to forget about the still aspect of the camera.

Totally agree...

Troy

No matter what else changes I think the focus needs to be on manual control of all major camera functions. Honestly, nothing else matters to me that much. Yeah, clean up the compression process (which will happen as better chips are available anyway) and lower noise, yada, yada, but for me the main thing is manual control.

1) Manual exposure, manual exposure, manual exposure

2) Interchangable lenses (Canon friendly?)

3) better sound (a built-in mic that's not buried, maybe a higher bit rate)

4) Here's one I haven't seen before: The HD equivlant of Hi-8: double the tape speed and half the compression. Have an option for the standard 60 minute tapes run at 30 minutes with more detail/better sound/less compression.

Don't change the handle! A lot of us love that swively thing:)

Oh, and 24p, 24p, 24p.

Chroma noise.. chroma noise.. chroma noise.

You can have all the manual controls you want, but if the fundamental image processing is flawed (such as the chroma processing on these cameras), then you have a problem. With the chroma issue fixed, you've doubled the value of these cameras.

#1 Chroma Noise
#2 Get rid of the edge enhancement altogether
#3 Manual controls
#4 The ability to record external sources in component HDTV
#5 720 60p instead of the 30p

Chris,

When it comes down to a prioritized list, I competely agree with your #1,2,3 and 5 Chris.

I would probably ad the following as well:

- Fix XLR sound
- Variable speed zoom (with manual control)
- 24p,60p

What do you think?

Balanced audio, if it's not already listed, plus what everyone else has said.

heath

I Love the camera in general.

love the twisting grip. be nice if it went further.

The auto focus needs to be changed to a different system.
the contrast technology has big flaws.

ie. I was shooting a 2 shot- wide. behind the people was a green palm against a white wall. the auto focus kept focusing on the plant especially when I zoomed in for singles.

when you run and gun, it is very reasuring to be able to hit the auto button when all else fails. (PD 150 autio focus is good example.)

the focus ring on this is camera is a bit sloppy as we know.

24p would be a smart move on JVC's part. Simply adding 24p capabilites would attract the independent DV filmmaker crowd who would jump at the prospect of having an HD camera.

Also... I agree with the others on this board that the still image features on this camera are a waste. Give me two pots where I can control ch1 & ch2 audio... and I'm sold.

I still say (even tho' the meeting has already taken place now) put HDV into the tiny palmcorders like the PC-105. Get HD to the masses and watch the tide really turn. As it is now, the format is strictly an elitist medium. Make it available at Wal-Mart and you'll see NTSC and DV disappear overnight. Otherwise this is just going to go the way of ED Beta. The major manufacturers are in a panic now because they want to protect their HD domain they've carefully carved out for themselves. Maybe it's going to take a non-player like China to blow the doors wide open. So I guess I'm coming to the conclusion that JVC is not capable of starting a true HD revolution. With so many self-interests at stake, they're going to do whatever it takes to marginalize and categorize HDV so that we're always wishing it were more than it is.

Lynne,

I agree, though I never thought HD for the masses would be here last year. I thought we were still 5 years from it. I used to think, back in 1999 when I bought my XL-1, that one day instead of DV, it would be HD.

heath

Very interesting food for thought there, Lynne.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

I spent a few hours with JVC and they are listening.

They hear us loud and clear and I'm sure the next model will be outstanding.

See you all at NAB!

Did you manage to get them to admit to the political nature of feature sets on these consumer cameras?
Or did they play dumb?
What did they say?

Thanks
-Les

Actually Les, although I cannot really speak about the specifics because I am under an NDA, my general sense is that they are genuinely interested in making the best camera possible.

My message to them was, fix the problems on this camera (Chroma noise, lack of manual controls, audio, edge enhancement, etc.) enhance it (24p,60p,30p, variable speed zoom –slower, better focus control from viewfinder, user friendly power switch, etc.) and you will sell many, many cameras.

Mr. Musha, who is responsible for product development in Japan, took many notes and was very interested in what the users had to say. Let’s hope that they can deliver a new model that will blow us away for the same price range.

By the way, regarding the audio XLR issues on the camera: They are fully aware of the problem and will give me instructions to relay for sending your camera in for repair.

I've worked with high end Japanese film equipment makers before, and I've found that they are extremely polite and nod to everything you ask. It is a cultural thing.
It's too bad marketing departments and the patent holders block what might be possible.
-Les