Hi all,

I've read a couple or threads here but still has some questions.

What I will do:
-interviews (60minute style) shooted indors in the person's home
-I will put the mic on a tripod, above the head and out of the visual range.

Right now I have a wireless lapel mic. The sound is ok but I don't like to see the mic on the image.

QUESTIONS:
- should I get a cardioid or a super cardioid ?
___I want the voice but not the echo or reverb from the room.

- I can go until $1000 / $1300.

- What model do you recommend?


Thanks
Carlos Manuel

A supercardioid microphone is probably what you're after as they are more directional than a cardioid.

If you only want the speaker's voice a shotgun microphone might be best as they are very directional.

The Rode NTG-3 is highly rated and well priced. I'm thinking of getting one myself.

Thanks Stuart,

For around the same cost of the Rode NTG-3, there is also
Sanken CS1
Sony ECM-678
Audio-Technica AT4073a
Sennheiser K6/ME66 / ME67
Sennheiser 416
...

Do you have tested any of them?
I will not record voice for feature film or singers.
I want to have deep voice and do not see the lapel mic.

Will I note a major difference from a $700 to a $1100 cardioid or supercardioid ?
Thanks again

I'll take a $100 microphone 5 inches from the audio source over a $1000 microphone 5 feet from the source. Echo will be determined more by room size and furnishings than the microphone used (but you can minimize echos with a closer mic placement). There are also techniques for using a wireless lav under the clothing (you have to make a protective loop that will eliminate rubbing noise). This will give you better bass at the expense of some mid/high frequencies. Shotgun mics will give you the worst bass response (only because they are typically further from the audio source).

Carlos, because you're putting your microphone right (on top) outside the frame line it really doesn't matter if you use a cardiod or hyper cardiod.

Which microphone to buy also depends what other situations you might have to deal with. If it's only for sit-down interviews any halfway decent mike will do. If you want to get value for your money think getting a used one. AKG 460/480 series i.e. with a (hyper) cardiod or are excellent quality. But really, a Octave would do too in this situation.

My opinion: buy used and buy good quality. You're going to save a lot and you're going to have excellent resale value - in other words you're not going to lose a single dime should you decide to sell your 'quality' microphone. Try this with a Samson ;-)

I, personally, am not a friend on Sennheisers K6/me66 series. A 416 is an excellent mike and besides being one of the best boom microphones are also used for voice-over BUT generally in interior situations have to be handled with care and I would not recommend it for beginners - how good they're sounding depends a lot on the room.

For the amount of money you're willing to spend you'd get a nice Schoeps (used that is) or find a Sennheiser MKH 50. Almost all mikes you mentioned seem to fall under the category 'shotgun' and for interiors that would not be my first choice.

Hi carlos

I have some good links for reading up on microphones:

General info on different types of mics, pickup patterns and how mics work:
Microphone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone)

Help choosing the right type of mic and lots of mic reviews:
As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html)

The ten commandments for high quality audio capture:
sync.sound.cinema: The Fifteen [drops tablet]...Ten! Ten Commandments of Sound for Picture! (Part One) (http://www.syncsoundcinema.com/2007/06/fifteen-drops-tabletten-ten.html)
- one of these commandments is to avoid using Lavalier mics except where absolutely necessary.

Also regarding audio capture in rooms see post 9 here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/all-things-audio/235183-new-microphone.html
- although I find this a bit confusing as Wikipedia shows that a hypercardioid mic does have rear pickup. According to Wikipedia cardioid mics are the only ones without rear pickup.

These links might help you decide what type of microphone you need. With hindsight a shotgun or super cardioid mic is possibly not the best idea, as Karl said. These pick up a lot of sound from directly behind the mic as well as in front. This would be a problem if you mount the mic on a boom and there are airconditioning units running in the ceiling, or if you decide to eat a bag of crisps while the interview is in progress. And these directional mics might pick up echo quite well.

As Oren said you want to keep the mic as close to the person speaking as possible - preferably mounted on an overhead boom out of shot - I think you can get stands so you won't have to hold it. Or you could mount it below the person on a stand, again as close as possible without getting in shot.

It´s also important to adjust the mic angle. It should point towards the mouth of he/she who speaks

Thanks all for the comments.

I've searched around and have 2 options at a resonable price.

- Rode NTG-3 in second hand (don't know yet the price)
- New SanKen CS-1

For those who know the mic's / have used them, what's your advice?

Again, I need the mic to shoot interviews at the person's home (like 60 Minutes).

Carlos

Carlos, shouldn't you know by now that a microphone like the Rode NTG-3 is NOT the right choice....are you listening at all? The Sanken CS-1 - well, if you have to, go for it, it's not the best choice either. But hey, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do ;-)

The Sanken CS-1 - well, if you have to, go for it, it's not the best choice either.

Thank's Karl for your support.

I've read in your other message where you say: For the amount of money you're willing to spend you'd get a nice Schoeps (used that is) or find a Sennheiser MKH 50. Almost all mikes you mentioned seem to fall under the category 'shotgun' and for interiors that would not be my first choice.

Please, tell me the model of Shoeps that you advise me.
What whould be your first choice?

I have a "small" problem. I don't know anyone that wants to sell any mic and I'm quite afraid of buying mic's on E-Bay.
The NTG-3 belongs to a person who plans to sell it and buy a CMIT5U.
It's the best I can get. But I don't know the exact moment of that change.

I'm Sorry Karl.

MKH50 is priced aroud $1,400. - too much
MKH416 is around 1,050 - It's my limit.
SanKen CS-1 is around $820 - it's ok for me
SanKEn CS-3E is around $1,400 - again out of my limit.

Thanks for all

Thank's Karl for your support.

I've read in your other message where you say: For the amount of money you're willing to spend you'd get a nice Schoeps (used that is) or find a Sennheiser MKH 50. Almost all mikes you mentioned seem to fall under the category 'shotgun' and for interiors that would not be my first choice.

Please, tell me the model of Shoeps that you advise me.
What whould be your first choice?

I have a "small" problem. I don't know anyone that wants to sell any mic and I'm quite afraid of buying mic's on E-Bay.
The NTG-3 belongs to a person who plans to sell it and buy a CMIT5U.
It's the best I can get. But I don't know the exact moment of that change.

I'm Sorry Karl.

MKH50 is priced aroud $1,400. - too much
MKH416 is around 1,050 - It's my limit.
SanKen CS-1 is around $820 - it's ok for me
SanKEn CS-3E is around $1,400 - again out of my limit.

Thanks for all

For a Schoeps there are 3 types of bodies, CMC 4, CMC5, CMC 6... All the bodies are similar except the 4 is older and can only be powered by T power because of this you can find used ones for quite a lot cheaper. The CMC5 is phantom powered and the CMC6 can be powered by either. Once you have the CMC body you can then choose a capsule, typically for booming you would want a Mk4 (cardioid) or a Mk41(HyperCard). The great thing about these mics is that you can mix and match different capsules as well as Cuts, actve cables, plants and so on. There are other differences in the body's but any Schoeps is a great mic!

Sacha,

I've looked on B&H and the $1,939 is out of my possible range ($1,000 top)

Schoeps | Colette Series Microphone Set | CMC641 SET | B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/377424-REG/Schoeps_CMC641_SET_Colette_Series_Microphone_Set.html)

Thank's
Carlos

Sacha,

I've looked on B&H and the $1,939 is out of my possible range ($1,000 top)

Schoeps | Colette Series Microphone Set | CMC641 SET | B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/377424-REG/Schoeps_CMC641_SET_Colette_Series_Microphone_Set.html)

Thank's
Carlos

you could find one used probably for around 1000-1200 and the value would not really drop too much.

Most all of the location sound pros use a lavaliere on a indoor interview. If it is a movie set they might also use a boomed shotgun mic. If there is more than one being interviewed the a mixer and a second or third lavaliere is used. If they are interviewing audience members then a hand held mic for the interviewer is used (he is wired with a lavalier).

Also you need to hide your lavalier so it remains unseen. Booming from a stand is not recomended, if your subject moves your audio will have variable levels, A body mounted lavalier moves with the subject and holds a constant volume.

I'm late to the party on this one, but I would not recommend a shotgun for interior use.

Either a lav or something like the Schoeps style is the way to go. I cannot afford the Scheops, so instead bought a Oktava MK-012 with three capsules and had it modded to improve response. For under $300 I invested in the mic, capsules and modding, it is a pretty darned good performer on an interior boom. It is kind of my "go to" mic indoors.

They can be bought new for slightly more than $300 - I'd still pay to mod a new one, so you'd be investing around $500 if you went that route... I bought mine on E-bay and modded it later. You do need to know what you are buying, as there was a period of knock-off cheap chinese fakes. New from a dealer might be the best way to go if you choose this wy. A number of places sell them, such as:

Oktava MK-012 condenser microphone. Oktava-online - only genuine Russian made studio microphones (http://www.oktava-online.com/mk012.htm)

or:

www.oktavausa.com

Chris

ps. A comparison with other similarly priced mics is here: http://homerecording.about.com/od/microphones101/ss/fivegreatmics_3.htm

Carlos, I understand that with being somewhat new to the audio world and with no real experience it's not ease to make a right decision.

Now, you state two things: your main purpose is doing (sit-down) interviews putting the microphone on a stand. And, you would be willing to shell out up to $ 1300.00.

That's really enough money + the job to be done is not a real complicated one. I do that all the time. Somebody mentioned that 'pros' use lavaliers and what have you. Just that: in the situation you describe 'pros' use a stand mounted microphone, usually a hyper-cardiod or a cardiod. Call me a 'pro' ;-)

I personally bought many many microphones on ebay and never had a problem! Maybe it's just me. Because your envisioned job is really not that demanding you have the luxury to chose a microphone that will be usable also for other things.

For example, I have quite a selection of AKG 460 or AKG 480 models. This is really a dark horse microphone. It's excellent quality, is extensively used by the taper's crowd, and can be found rather easily and well priced on ebay or on various fori. Check the taper's forum, they have their own 'for sale' forum and they know each other. This microphone, like the Schoeps CMC series, or the Oktava allows you to change capsules. There's even an excellent shotgun capsule out there. You should find a AKG 460 (as good as the 480 btw) with a cardiod capsule for less than $350.00 if you look around! I've used this microphone on more film sets I care to remember! There's also hyper cardiod capsules as well as omni capsules. Google around to get educated about this system.

Oktava, well, I personally am not the big fan, it does have handling noise issues and there's this Russian versions and the Chinese versions and what have you, I never really had a reason to use one. They exist and for simple things they're usable.

Then there's Sennheiser: as mentioned earlier, I don't like their ME system or what it's called - I don't like how it sounds, it's not worth my money. But, they have the MKH series which are excellent microphones, but only if you find them on the used market. They're too expensive to buy new. And you'd lose too much money in case you want to resell it.

Schoeps: I mentioned this system, because a) it is an excellent system and for $1300 you definitely could find one used. Think of the 41 capsule and any of the CMC5, or CMC6 bases etc. as long as you can power them: there's 48V phantom and there's 12V T power out there. 12T power isn't very often used nowadays but it's as good as and I have a lot of great T powered mikes and they can be found even cheaper! I do think Schoeps is overkill for your plans, I'd spend money differently, and that is:

Get a AKG 460/480 series with a CK1 (aka CK 61) (cardiod) or a CK3 (aka CK63) hyper cardiod capsule. If you can find an AKG shotgun capsule a CK69 for a good price, get one of those too and you're covered for a lot of situations.

For the price of a CK69 you might actually find a Sennheiser 415 or 416. The ones called 415T or 416T ask for T power. There's lots of cheap 48V phantom to T-power converters out there. The T-powerd mikes are always lower priced.

When buying used microphones make sure that you're allowed to return them if they do not work! Never buy stuff from folks who say, I'm sure it works but I couldn't 'test' it or such nonsense.

Check 'gearslutz' forums for used stuff as well as the taper's forum. Check ebay. save money, be happy!


I do have some experience in this field....:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0517905/

To Chris Swanberg:

I was thinking of getting an Oktava MC/MK-012 as a second microphone.

Do you find your MK-012 suffers from handling noise on a boom?

Do you have it mounted on a shock mount, in a zeppelin with a windshield?

What models of the latter do you use?

Stuart,

I will agree that it is a little sensitive to being mishandled and requires attention to the use of a boom. That said, it is not a big issue that has gotten in the way of its use for me. I have used in in various mounts (the AT shockmount [AT8415 comes to mind as the model] as well as a cheap Joe Meeks rubber band mount, and several others that I have picked up along the way. One of these days I need to sit down and catalog which one works best... but they all seem to work ok.

I have used it in a zeppelin. I own one of the Indian zeppelins off E-Bay, and have previously written how I have been generally been very pleased with that $175 purchase.

I won't argue that the Schoeps is not a much better mic, but I also have to say for a lot less money, I feel I am capturing excellent sound that many would not be able to distinguish. I also think I could sell my Oktava for as much or more than I paid so a I move up, should I decide to rid myself of it, I won't have wasted anything.

I carefully read up on the entire series of Oktava mics, and learned how to spot a fake. I watched many many ebay ads and watched the mics either not pass the smell test for genuinenness, or sell for more than I wanted to pay. Then one day, I saw a real deal black Oktava (which is what I wanted), with 3 caps and a -10db pad and won it for $175. I think I paid $80 to have it modded. I acknowledge I got a really good deal on it, and am not saying others may be as fortunate.

I use it pretty exclusively as my interior microphone in non lav situations. I also have used with my lavs (Sony ECM-44's - the old filmschool workhorse) and it cuts decently.

I don't think you will be sorry if you pick one up. The handling noise issues are overblown IMHO.

Chris Swanberg

ps. Karl's advice was really excellent. I'd like to think if he had my Oktava to use he'd come away with a better impression of it - (though I am not saying he'd somehow claim it is a Schoeps CMC41 in Russian clothing <grin>)

Thanks Chris

I happen to have an At8415b shock mount.

I think I will get a modded MC/MK-012 with the 3 capsules now :)

Could you post a link to the type of zeppelin you use for the MK-012?

Stuart.. I don't see it currently on E-Bay.But Visually it appears to be very much like, if not exactly like, this one:

DX-4400 Wind Screening Microphone Blimp - AUD/5120, KIT/AUD-5130, KIT/AUD-5135, KIT/AUD-5140 (http://imagewest.tv/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=59)

Mine came with a short extension for the body to accomodate longer mics, and 2 fur covers to handle either length - standard or with the extension. Build quality was not aircraft build quality, but It has served me ok. I think I paid $175 for the whole shebang.

The Rode blimp from DVEStore is a better quality build,and not a LOT more expensive. Guy Cochran (DVEStore's owner)could easily respond to his views on these thing. he's a reliable seller.

Chris

I should say that 99% of my use for the Mk-012 has been indoors and I rarely need anything other than a foamscreen in it. I HAVE had it in the blimp, but rarely. Outdoors I tend to go with one of my shotguns in it.

Thanks very much for the info Chris :)

I will look into the Rode blimp as well. One option would be for me to get an NTG-3 kit with blimp and boom pole for outdoor work. Then also get an Oktava MK-012 for indoor work.

"Bang for your buck" wise, that would be an excellent choice that I think you would not regret.

Thanks again Chris. You can't beat a high bang/buck ratio ;)

I think Guy even has a boom/shockmount/NG-3 package...

I use a (currently) unmodded Oktava MK012, and have never experienced problems with handling. At the moment I use it mounted either on the Rycote S series suspension, or their softie pistol grip (which can quickly be mounted to a boom).

However, I *did* find it very sensitive to wind, and have to have something on it for active booming, even if done fairly slowly. I chose the Rycote Baby Ball Gag, which proved effective enough to even be usable outdoors, admittedly in virtually zero wind. I may get the fluffy windshield to go with it soon. Only downside- it makes this short mic a bit harder to mount, and it means at the business end, it is an inch or two longer, so meaning you have to be even more careful to not get it in shot.

I ordered the 20mm Rycote BBG and Rycote windjammer - hopefully they should give adequate wind protection. I'm getting one of the official MK012 shock mounts, hopefully it should do a good job too. When I've had a go with the system I'll put a post on here. I have to work out how to use my new SD MIX-PRE mixer with it and my XH A1, haven't used a mixer before so it might be a steep learning curve!

They don't come up very often, but Beyer M201 hypercardioids are worth a look. Quite small and with a simple foam windshield fitted work really well for seated interviews - popular in radio studios as a workhorse type mic.

I use a (currently) unmodded Oktava MK012, and have never experienced problems with handling. At the moment I use it mounted either on the Rycote S series suspension, or their softie pistol grip (which can quickly be mounted to a boom).

However, I *did* find it very sensitive to wind, and have to have something on it for active booming, even if done fairly slowly. I chose the Rycote Baby Ball Gag, which proved effective enough to even be usable outdoors, admittedly in virtually zero wind. I may get the fluffy windshield to go with it soon. Only downside- it makes this short mic a bit harder to mount, and it means at the business end, it is an inch or two longer, so meaning you have to be even more careful to not get it in shot.

the end of the mic is the end of the mic, it shouldn't really make a difference either way

the end of the mic is the end of the mic, it shouldn't really make a difference either way

I don't know what you mean by this. But here is a clarification in case this is what you were getting at. The problem with the BBG (or any wind protection) is because you generally want the mic to be as close as possible to the sound source, but not be in shot. With the BBG fitted you are having to hold the capsule end of the microphone a couple of inches further away from where you would otherwise have situated it.

Naturally, not having your sound severely impaired by wind noise beats that downside.

Thanks Stuart,

For around the same cost of the Rode NTG-3, there is also
Sanken CS1
Sony ECM-678
Audio-Technica AT4073a
Sennheiser K6/ME66 / ME67
Sennheiser 416
...

Do you have tested any of them?
I will not record voice for feature film or singers.
I want to have deep voice and do not see the lapel mic.

Will I note a major difference from a $700 to a $1100 cardioid or supercardioid ?
Thanks again

Carlos:

I understand you are looking for a value mic to use on this project and beef up your sound capabilities for future projects.

You mentioned the 4073a. There are a lot of mics better suited which have already been mentioned, but I can tell you from experience just yesterday, that the 4073a can work for your interview with careful placement, unless you have a noisy room. The main reason I mention the 4073a is that it's such a value (from one of the big A/V stores) at about $560 for a kit. It's a good budget mic to add to your kit.

Keep building your sound kit.

I had the opportunity to use a 4073a in a shoot last year (on a boom, outdoors) and I really was impressed with the sensitivity it displayed. I'd love to have one in my kit. I second what Jeff just noted above.

You can hear clips recorded with the 4073a in my article As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html#Audio-Technica%20AT-4073a)

FWIW, I have used this mic for years as several clients own it and I have shot interviews, exteriors and just about everything in between with it.

Very sensitive
A bit thin sounding
Prone to sibilance so if you are recording a sibilant person, be careful.
Built like a tank, very reliable.
Personally I like the overall sound of the AT-875R better at less than half of the price. Keep in mind that the 4073a was designed probably over a decade ago while the AT875R was designed less than two years ago. Technology does change and advance and sometimes newer products that cost much less can sound and look better in our business.

Dan

The 875R has a few drawbacks vs the 4073a to go with the low price point:

1. The frequency response is 90-20 vs 30-20.

2. No low cut filter.

3. The S/N ratio is 74 vs 80. Seems all the good mics have at least an 80 dB S/N ratio.

4. Not long enough for a stout shockmount like the SM3.

5. Not long enough for mid level wind protection and a shockmount. Im not sure how you would boom it, but Im sure the experts have a way.

It does sound pretty good in Dans test, not sure about the real world. Generally, you get what you pay for I believe.