Hi everyone,

I've been toying around with the idea of selling my a1 and buying another 5d mark2 for weddings.I primarily shoot stills so this would be great for that side of the company.I'm phasing out video this year. and concentrating on fusion stuff.I can still use my pilot and g2 wireless with the 5d so I'm thinking it would be a good move.Does anyone have any input or experience with 5d only weddings? Any input would be fantastic!

Thanks!
Ryan

Hi Ryan,
I think Stillmotion is shooting exclusively with the 5d's now. Ask Patrick, he should have some good insight.

Isn't there a record time limit of 12 minutes on these things? That would kill it for the ceremony but I could see you being able to work around that for everything else.

Love to know what they're doing for ceremonys if they're running an all 5D package.

Thanks guys for the responses.....That is my main concern.....THE CEREMONY. Everything else would be no problem for the 5d.I do alot of short ceremonies but if there is a full mass mixed in there I'll be stressed.Also if there is a looooong toast.Those are the things that worry me most.Hopefully someone can give us some idea of how to work around these things.I mean you can always through a still frame in there to transition if the 14 minute clip runs out.....right?

You could always figure out a way to keep two of them running at staggered intervals but what a headache. My guess is that you'd do one of two things for a ceremony.

1) Roll a regular camera as the cover/safety shot from the back and use the 5d up front

or

2) roll regular cameras during the ceremony and 5D's the rest of the time.

How many cards would you need for a full day of 5D shooting?

A 4gig card will hold 12 minutes of footage in HDV.

No breakup should be in the soundtrack during ceremone and toost so I would get f.ex. H4 to record good sound and then you can get a way with not having actual images all the time.

I have a yamaha pocket trax cx for back up and I attach a powered countryman lav to it so I can get it on the groom.The audio I get from it is always great.I'm worried about the audio drifting when I pair it up with the 5d footage though.Any suggestions on that?

Ryan

Ryan - I use a 16GB card which holds 48 minutes- enough to get through most ceremonies without changing cards as long as you're not running continuously. The challenge is to time the stop/start with the important segments of the ceremony so you don't hit the 12 minute threshold in the middle of something important - vows, toasts, etc.

-Art

I would imagine that you'd still need the A1 for a stationary wide-angle shot during the ceremony and long speeches. Our wedding was shot with mostly MKIIs during the day but I remember an A1-ish camera propped onto a tripod during the ceremony and reception.

If it's just for cut scenes, then just get an HV30 as your stationary camera. But if you're completely phasing out video, then I wouldn't bother with that idea.

joyce + raymond // stillmotion special edition sde // LA on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/5062980)

Thanks guys!

I really appreciate your feedback.I definitely need something to run long for the big stuff.Maybe I should hold off on to the A1 sale for a bit.I have a few more full video weddings this season,so Maybe I'll make the full 5d transition after the new year.I'm really trying to turn over a new leaf with our photography and bring something nobody else does to the industry in my area.....ah hell the world....hehehehohohohahaha:) the video seems to be taking away from my flow.I wish I could do it all on my own but it's just not possible right now......hence the change.I still WON"T sell my steadicam.It's just toooo much fun to play with.

Thanks for the help!
Ryan

Thanks Art! I just realized that I never got back to you since you're email.We'll get together soon!

Selling the Steadicam. Is that what you said! Please say it ain't so.

NO WAY Dave,The steadicam is staying......We just have to get together to practice sometime this year...haha.I'll still use it for special projects and for those few clients that want to pay me $4500 for a video package;).I just have to move closer to the city.

Ryan

There is always a tendency with something new to get over excited and overuse a new tool. The 5D MkII is a great camera with some very useful features. But I believe the way to view it is as a PART of the tools one uses. A pro golfer might spend hundreds of dollars on a good putter but you don't read any golfing articles with a title such as "I played 18 holes with just my putter."

The other thing that tends to happen with something new is to over use it. Shallow depth of field, focus transistions etc. can create a terrific impression unless they are overused. If these tecniques are overused the only impression you may make is to make someone motion sick. It's a bit like a consumer with a brand new camcorder right after they discover zoom - not a pretty site. Or imagine a chef who is complimented on how good the spaghetti sauce was who decides that if a tablespoon of Oregano was good then a cup would make it even better. The actual result is that it would be inedible.

There is always a tendency with something new to get over excited and overuse a new tool. The 5D MkII is a great camera with some very useful features. But I believe the way to view it is as a PART of the tools one uses. A pro golfer might spend hundreds of dollars on a good putter but you don't read any golfing articles with a title such as "I played 18 holes with just my putter."

The other thing that tends to happen with something new is to over use it. Shallow depth of field, focus transistions etc. can create a terrific impression unless they are overused. If these tecniques are overused the only impression you may make is to make someone motion sick. It's a bit like a consumer with a brand new camcorder right after they discover zoom - not a pretty site. Or imagine a chef who is complimented on how good the spaghetti sauce was who decides that if a tablespoon of Oregano was good then a cup would make it even better. The actual result is that it would be inedible.

Good points Jim. I find it really hard to avoid shallow dof though with this camera. You are going to get it no matter what indoors when you have to shoot wide open, and then if you zoom in you got incredible bokeh, whether you want it or not. It is a blessing and a curse.

Bruce Cleveland

Would it be considered a 5D wedding if you shoot the entire wedding with a 5D with exceptions to the ceremony and toasts? Those two are the only two impossibles with the 5D2 due to the recording length.. You can however intercut 5D footage with long form footage from a camcorder so you'll be covered. However I think this is pretty difficult to pull off with one person.

There is always a tendency with something new to get over excited and overuse a new tool.

Exactly, same for glidecam, looks great if you see that floating movement but if used for a complete photoshoot f.i. it feels like being on a boat during a storm, you feel the adrenaline in the beginning but end up hanging over the edge feeling sick :). I would never sell my xh-a1 just to be able to shoot with the 5d. My xh-a1 is much more versatile then a 5d, the last one is still a PHOTOcamera.
It does serve it's purpose very well if you would combine it with tripod, crane, glidecam, glidetrack shots and if you would include a real VIDEOcamera as well.

Just recently did entire preparation part with 5d mk2, great thing, mostly shot with 24mm lens, part of it 85mm for portraits.
will show soon

Well I've used my 5d for almost all of the bridal prep and formal stuff.I always use my A1 for the ceremony and reception (toasts,dances,etc.) The 5d is great for the reception if you have an off camera light source.Keep in mind guys.....I'm in the process of phasing out video and concentrating on fusion only stuff.That's the only reason I'd ever think of loosing to A1.For a fusion wedding you don't need the entire ceremony or the entire toast.It can be smaller clips mixed with stills.The audio can always be recorded on my little yamaha feild unit and a lav.That way you can always lay some stills in the vid and still run the full audio.That's just what I'm going for.It might not be every brides cup of tea but then again I don't want to do this for every bride that walk through my door.As you allll know there is a lot more set up time when shooting video then just stills,so fusion isn't always possible.That's why I've been charging out the waazooo for it and making sure there is plenty of extra time to set up everything (camera b,audio,lightning,etc.)


Ryan:)

After having worked with the 5D since October of 2008, I've been wanting to use it more exclusively. Now we're at about 90% 5D all day only using our EX1 when the ceremony is in a darker church. For outdoor ceremonies we shoot 100% 5D.

Keeping the bride etc in focus during the processional is the biggest challenge of the 5D imo when you're shooting in a darker church. Because you can't have the aperture at something like f7 or f11, the people in the processional will go in and out of focus = pita.

We've found no issue with the 12 minute limit though during the ceremony or speeches. If you've shot weddings before, you can pretty much anticipate when the next major part of the service is going to happen, so you just need to remember to start/stop quickly - no big deal at all. For speeches, I find it rare that anyone speaks anywhere near 12 minutes, so no big deal there either.

We use 16gb cards which get you about an hour of footage.

No need to be afraid of using the 5D more and more on a shoot though - it truly has changed the way we film and the product we can deliver to our clients.

Hey Bruce,

Thanks for the confidence booster:) My next video wedding is the 14th of August so I'm going to try and use the 5d as camera A and just set up an A1 for cut away shots just in case I miss something.I am sooooo not afraid to push things to the edge.I do it and I'm sure I'll pull it off.Thanks again for the info....you guys rock!

Ryan

Oh....almost forgot to ask.What are you guys using for your steadi shots? Flyer...Pilot...merlin? Just curious.I'm meeting up with a buddy of mine this week to practice with our pilots and was wondering what your setup is. Thanks again!

Man.. how do you guys afford all these great cameras and gear!! The prices are out of reach for someone trying to start up on their own. It's a darn catch 22... I need at least one good camera, if not two to cover a wedding.. yet I can't even afford one. I am looking more and more at the business loan thing, but with so many videographers in the Sacramento area, I am fearful that there would be little return on my investment.. especially just starting out. I am hoping I can find someone to learn from on a few shoots.

I like that Raymond wedding video. The bride got him a brand new MKII. WOW! I wish I had 1/10 that kind of money to get my wife a gift like that lol. The camera on the cart was awesome! Is that a learned creativity? Maybe I should stick to software... don't know where I am going to think up things like that.

So in a different thread, I had asked about showing up to a wedding shoot with a couple XR500's... if that would look bad.. and the majority of answers were "yes..". How do you show up to shoot a video with a still camera? I know it's the MK2 and does great video.. but don't people ask any of you how you're going to shoot the wedding video with a still camera? I would think doing weddings with pure still cameras that most people don't realize can shoot great HD video, would have many asking/wondering about how professional you are and all that? If you guys can show up with MK2s, can't I show up with a couple XR500s, possibly with hoods if they have them?

I am looking more and more at the business loan thing, but with so many videographers in the Sacramento area, I am fearful that there would be little return on my investment..

That is why it is essential to do a business plan before you borrow money from the bank, your credit card, family, or anywhere. Forcing yourself to write one up will cause you to look at every aspect of the business and determine rather or not it is worth the investment in time and money. Rather you decide to go for it, or that is is unfeasible, the business plan will have done it's job.

I certainly relate to how expensive this line of work can be. It isn't cheap. I guess the biggest barrier to entry for wedding videography is either a big set of you-know-what's or a very well paying day job.

Kevin,

It took me a while to get my hands on good quality still equipment when I first started shooting weddings.I was in the position to buy all this video equipment last year because I had built the still end of the biz up over several years and knew I would be able to book the hell out of videography packages since there isn't all that much competition here locally on the east coast.I wouldn't recommend a business loan.Just work with what you have and slowly build your arsenal.I see sooooo many video guys show up with ONE hv20 and a little pocket recorder for audio.It's all in post.If it looks great on DVD people won't care what you shot it with.Get a good demo reel together and charge accordingly.All this equipment is great but it's a lot of crap to set up.I'm just learning the basics still but then again I'm getting out of the videography game (tooo much work).I'll leave you some stuff in my will....lol

Ryan

Lol Ryan.. nice. So why are you getting out of videography? Do you not like to shoot video.. or too much to carry around.. too chaotic to shoot weddings?

Honestly if I could do it, I'd rather go into editing of the videos over having to be there to shoot weddings. I would love to get in to shooting commercials, short films, etc.. the wedding video shooting seems pretty crazy. I am just trying to find ways to make money in this crappy economy with what I know and/or can (or think I can) learn.

I see some people here starting up, and others getting out. Do us starters not know that videography is dying or something? lol. It still amazes me how much money pay for flowers and crap at a wedding for that one day, but then often balk at the idea of paying a grand or two to video tape it, not even realizing how much work goes into it. I think most, including myself when I turned down doing a video 12 years ago, thought.. that's a lot of money for someone to stand there and video. The post is where the long hours go (usually) and time is money. I realize that now. The trick I think is selling your craft in such a way that they buy in to knowing that it's a lot of work besides just shooting video. Mind you..that is to sell to those that wouldn't otherwise consider it.

Kevin -
If you're confident and have product to show, you can shoot with whatever camera you've got - the proof is in the pudding as they say. That's not to say that a cam with poor performance isn't going to drive you crazy - that's why we discuss equipment as much as we do around here - we are trying to push the boundaries of the equipment, as well as our skills.

You crack me up with the "stand there and video" line - maybe some cheap-o guys stick the cam on a tripod and press record (where's that photo of the HC3 with the lampshade when it needs to be reposted!?!?), but I'm constantly moving, adjusting my remote cameras along the way, and being VERY mobile is a part of how I shoot.

Not that for the ceremony I don't have locked off cameras on tripods for cutaway or specific angles I know I need for how I edit, but the ability to move and go to the action is the one thing I realized was needed for a dynamic end product - it's a healthy workout, done right!

I think you're perhaps missing something about the coming wave of "fusion/convergence" between Photo and Video - the cameras are coming together, albeit from slightly different directions, and the multimedia production/edit for a "big screen" (i.e. huge plasma or LCD display, but hopefully still looks OK on an old 13" CRT) is what separates the cheap-o from the new breed of WV/event shooting.

Personally I'm more trying to document the day in an entertaining way, but so many here are producing "mini-movies" of such depth and emotional content that they transcend the couple and the producer - they are simply captivating content, and it's ultimately content that matters, NOT the hardware it's shot with! Are old family photos shot with a brownie any less of value because they were not shot with a 100Mpixel panoramic camera?).

IMO it's not "too" hard to produce a wedding video that resonates with the couple and their family, after all, they are the "stars", and so are interested... some of the samples shown here could be shown on TV and captivate ANYONE watching, and most are of a high production quality that would at least capture some members of an audience that doesn't know the "stars", and are drawn into the story.

Good images, whether moving or still, come from the eye, skill, and talents of the artist, not from the hardware, though proper hardware can certainly make the artist's job easier and the results more compelling. I shoot "technically", and get good shots, but my wife shoots from instinct, and more often gets the "great" shots... despite not being as much the gearhead. Unfortunately you can't "buy" that special component anywhere... sigh.

Kevin,

I'm getting out because it's just to much work for what people are willing to pay.I get at least 3-4k for shooting stills and people don't even blink.As soon as they word video comes up people usually wince and say "aaahhh we're not really looking for video".People really love the fusion thing and they are willing to pay the my $1595 price tag for the add on.I'm only going to do one a month so I have a life and don't spend my days and nights on the computer living in FCP render land.I have 58 still weddings this year so family time is already being affected.Besides I can edit an entire still wedding in about 3 hours......video..sheeesh,forget about it:)

Ryan

Kevin -
If you're confident and have product to show, you can shoot with whatever camera you've got - the proof is in the pudding as they say. That's not to say that a cam with poor performance isn't going to drive you crazy - that's why we discuss equipment as much as we do around here - we are trying to push the boundaries of the equipment, as well as our skills.

Are old family photos shot with a brownie any less of value because they were not shot with a 100Mpixel panoramic camera?).

Good images, whether moving or still, come from the eye, skill, and talents of the artist, not from the hardware, though proper hardware can certainly make the artist's job easier and the results more compelling.

Dave - That's some fantastic, solid advice right there. :)

I think it's very easy to get caught up in the 'keeping up with the Jones' mentality in regards to equipment, whereas the truth is the majority of producers already have all the gear they need for effective, compelling storytelling.

Ron Dawson recently made an excellent post regarding content vs. quality:

http://bladeronner.com/?p=584

Cheers,

Matt.

we use the zoom H4ns for audio and that makes a huge difference. if your audio is constant throughout, i don't mind the 12-14 min recording limit and having to restart the clip. i think it depend on your style though - if your doing a documentary type edit i would think it might be more hassle than its worth in trying to nail focus and having to sync things up and make sure the 30.00 syncs with the 29.97 of other cams but if your doing something more cinematic you can afford ot have the cam stop here and there.

we love the MKII and the issues with it and quite minor compared to the benefits BUT that also goes in conjunction with our style and business model.

P.

What is this "fusion" thing you guys speak of? Is that where you take a MKII and do a lot of stills, and some video as part of the overall 1 man package? If so, when do you know to take stills and when to shoot video with your camera?

Kevin...the fusion thing is something that photographers are doing to bring video into there product lines.It's pretty much a mixture of stills and video.It's the fusing of the two mediums.It really adds to the story telling aspect of still photography. It also adds to my savings account...hehe. The guys over at stillmotion (yes you guys rock Patrick) have been rock'in it out for sometime now but the 5d has really opened up the door for photographers that want to do something more with their art.Yup I'm one of those photographers that considers himself an artist "nose up chest out"....lol

Rye

Sounds like a perfect solution for the Red Scarlet. The Esquire shoot of Megan Fox in June is amazing that those are video frames and not still pictures.

we use the zoom H4ns for audio and that makes a huge difference. if your audio is constant throughout, i don't mind the 12-14 min recording limit and having to restart the clip. i think it depend on your style though - if your doing a documentary type edit i would think it might be more hassle than its worth in trying to nail focus and having to sync things up and make sure the 30.00 syncs with the 29.97 of other cams but if your doing something more cinematic you can afford ot have the cam stop here and there.

we love the MKII and the issues with it and quite minor compared to the benefits BUT that also goes in conjunction with our style and business model.

P.

Patrick do you use the H4n ON camera to capture ambient during, say, pre-ceremony (bridal/groom preps) or another method.