Hi guys, been happliy shooting with my Z5 since April this year.

At this weekends weddings, I noticed a problem with the focus, the very same problem that happened to my FX7 last year, this problem seems to be know as 'Back Focus'

My normal method of focussing (zoom into full tele-zoom on subject, ajust focus, then zoom out to desired framing)

Problem is that all of a sudden, when I do this, when I zoom out to wide, the whole frame is out of focus.

I took some stills at todays wedding to illustrate the problem (not the best lighting conditions but its fairly obvious that there is a problem)

Pic 1 = Fully zoomed into object (a light stand) I adjusted the focus, it read 9.8m.

Pic 2 = After pic 1 was taken, zoomed out to full wide, didnt touch the focus ring.

Pic 3 = After pic 2, I then adjusted the focus as it was obviously not correct, the focus meter read 0.3m


This was done with macro focus set to 'on', and focus assist set to 'off',

I tried all combinations of macro focus and focus assist, but the problem was the same.

I didnt think it would an issue with any of them as I have been shooting with the above settings since I got the camera an its been fine (until this weekend)

Has anyone else had this problem with a Z5/FX1000?

I'm covered by the silver support thingy, but I can't afford to be without my camera, even for 7 days, as I have weddings to film every friday and Saturday till October!

Any help, advice, suggestions as always are much appreciated

Thanks

James

Your stuck, there's not many options.

You either need to buy an extra cam, rent a cam, borrow a cam, or not send it in.

I'm in the same boat, I have another issue and I can't send the camera into Sony because I've work to do.

Hi Jeff, thanks for replying.

Whats the problem with your Z5/Fx1000?

One cam has a dropout issue and another one has a bad microphone input.

One also has what appears to be a slowly deteriorating tape mechanism as it opens sometimes, sometimes not.

These cams are, IMO, more cheaply built than my past Sony's. They used plastic where there used to be metal for the tape mechanism, and just the fact that two different cams have issues says a lot to me.

So I sent the camera back to Sony (had to send £100 hiring another Z5 over the weekend!)

They've emailed me saying this:

"Hi James

We have conducted a hot/cold testing, and checked the unit over a period of 2 days with no fault found. We have just checked the unit over now and concur with this, but would like to add the following information which may contribute to the lack of focus.

Firstly the unit has focus macro set to on (stated in notes and as camera is set up). As you know, the macro function is used when the subject is less than 3 ft from the front of the lens; you were focussing on a subject at about 9.8M (approx 32 ft). Use of the macro lens means that optimal focus is within the macro range, not at further distances.

We also believe that low lighting conditions such as the ones in the photographs may have a detrimental effect on the quality of focus.

(For a focus deviation this bad, if the lens was faulty we would expect it to generate a 6x error). To this end, because the error log is full of "Battery too hot" and "Non-Standard battery” errors we advise you to replace the battery with the original to prevent these error occurring and concealing the lens error (the error log only has 6 entries).



Best regards"

Now its may be possible that the problem has magically fixed itself, but i doubt it.

The camera is due to be delivered back to me today.

If (as I suspect) the camera has not magically fixed itself, what can I do to prove to Sony that there is problem?

I'm thinking I would go to the hire place, ask to do a side by by side comparison with their Z5, take stills etc....

Anyone have any thoughts?

FWIW, the level of customer service from Sony Prime Support so far has been less than stellar.

Cheers

James

James, as Sony commented you shouldn't have been using Macro Focus as your subject was more than 3 feet away, and the lighting was very poor. So based on the example you gave us it was your using Macro Focus and poor lighting that caused the focus problem.

How does the focus work in well lit conditions?

Hi Jeff,

I keep focus macro on as I tend to do alot of 'shift/rack' focus shots at my weddings.

That was my first thought, so i turned focus macro off, problem was still there.

Lighting conditions dont make a difference either, it just so happens that the stills i took were in a darkened room.

I just got the camera back, and, at first inspection, the problem seems to be fixed ?!?!?!

The only difference (and this may well be obvious to some but it wasnt to me) is that when I sent it back to Sony, I removed all accessories (as instructed)

This included removing a UV filter that I was using as a lens protector.

When I first noticed the problem, I took the UV filter/lens protector off, but the problem was still there.

Is it possible that the problem was casued by using a UV filter/lens protector? And jus took a bit of time to correct itslef after I removed it? Seems like long shot.

If it is the UV filter/lens protector, what can I do to protect my lens!?!?!

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to discuss it with me,

I'll do a proper test at this weekends weddings.

Figers crossed

I agree with Jeff. I think "focus macro" contributes to the problem. The V1/FX7 seemed to have back focus issues but many of the problems could be contributed to focus macro being turned on.

I keep focus macro on as I tend to do alot of 'shift/rack' focus shots at my weddings.

I've also heard of this happening with the macro function. Why don't you just assign it to a quick button if you use it that often. That way you can turn it on and off when you want and hopefully alleviate your focus problems.

If it is the UV filter/lens protector, what can I do to protect my lens!?!?!

James you don't need a lens protector with the Z5, since you have the lens hood attached in front of the lens. It's very very unlikely that something will damage your lens. I believe that the UV filter/lens protector is a myth...

Stelios

Hi, James . . .

Sorry to hear about your back focus issues with your Z5. When you get your camera back, go over EVERYTHING you can think of to test your unit for back focus issues.

Assuming the problem hasn't been fixed, I would do a test shoot and then output it to Blu-ray or DVD for Sony to see, if you have to return it to service again. You could talk your way through the test, mentioning what distance you are from your subject (showing the problem on screen as you talk). And tell them what to look for as you narrate the test footage. We had a hard time getting someone at Sony to view the footage. Either they watched the video without listening with audio -- or they didn't pay much attention until I forced the issue.

I have had two years of fighting with Sony of Canada over back focus issues for both my V1U camcorders -- and then BOTH my Z7U's. The Z7U has a back flange adjustment for the removable lens system that simply does not work right -- at least with my cameras.

Bottom line: Sony kept returning my cameras over and over and over again saying they were "repaired" or "nothing is wrong" . . . well, there is something wrong. Only after complaining to the top at Sony did anything get done . . . and it was even then still a battle.

The only way that the Z7U back focus issue was ever resolved was Sony putting on a talented service tech to totally set up the focus of the camera from scratch. The interesting thing I learned was that the focus couldn't simply be corrected by one simple adjustment. Careful calibration of the focus was achieved by doing adjustments and corrections at every one of the ND filter settings. If focus was only fixed for, let's say, ND 3 -- then focus when using any of your other filters would be just as bad as before.

The problem I had was that nobody until quite recently had any idea of what to do. And nobody at Sony service took any initiative until writing to the President of the company and others -- then all of a sudden -- the cameras worked. Amazing how that happens.

Keep on top of it!

Let us know how your repair works out.

Ian

Just picking up on this "focus macro" do you guys/gals have it set to on or only enable it when required. As its default is set to on then I can't see why it would cause an issue.

I agree with Jeff. I think "focus macro" contributes to the problem. The V1/FX7 seemed to have back focus issues but many of the problems could be contributed to focus macro being turned on.

How do you turn off the "focus macro" of the FX7? There is nothing mentioned in the manual.

Stelios

Hi guys, I got my Z5 back from sony, and shockingly enough, the problem is still there.

Its DEFINITELY nothing to do with focus macro being on or off. The problem happens whether is on or off, likewise lighting conditions don't make a difference, it happens in bright sunlight, it happens in a dark room.

I've uploaded a raw .m2t file so you guys can see it for yourselves.

its at FILES (http://strangeworx.com/z5fault.html)


Ian, do you still have the letter(s) you sent to high level sony folk? I'd love to have a read and maybe 'borrow' some choice phrases.

Its such an obvious problem I cannot beleive sony repair centre 'tested it over a period of 2 days, and found no fault'


With regards to focus macro, I also thought that since the default setting was on, that it is fine to shoot with it on, i find that it gives you a better focal range (for want of a better phrase)

Anyways, have a look at the file and let me know your thoughts

Again, any help/suggestions are much appraciated.

Stelios, I also have an FX7, I don't think there is 'focus macro' setting, but the FX7 suffers from the same fault (mine does anyway)

Cheers

James

I think it is just a matter of not enough light, to allow the auto focus to perform its job. Under such circumstances I prefer to focus manual.

I always prefer to focus manually, thats the issue.

If you look at the example I posted (in which focus was set to manual), I zoom all the way in, set focus, then start to zoom out (not touching the focus at all) as it starts to get wide again, the image loses all focus.

When I get to full wide, I have to turn the focus wheel all the way till it wont go any further (0.8m if i remember correctly) before the image is in focus, this is the fault, and it happens regardless of lighting conditions.

James

James,

If you're focussing manually and the issue persists whether the macro is on or off then I would say this is a classic symptom of backfocus problems. I looked at the video and that reinforced my opinion.

Get on the phone to Sony, persist until you find someone intelligent who knows what backfocus is, and ship the camera back again for repair. Looking at the message Sony sent you before it really doesn't look like the technicians understood the problem or knew what they were looking for. They can fix this, they just need to acknowledge and understand the problem. Maybe even send them that footage on DVD, or, even better, do a test with a test chart of some sort and send them that.

HTH

Mark

Thanks for looking mark,

Getting sony to recognise the problem, this is exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

"do a test with a test chart of some sort and send them that."

Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you mean.

My other issue is, I have weddings to film every weekend, so when I send the camera back to sony, I will have to hire another z5 (cosint £100!) while its with them, as they can only send me a loan unit after 7 working days, not ideal.

Anyway, thanks for looking. At least I'm not going crazy (thikning that my eyes had a back focus problem for a minute!)

James

James,

What I mean is get a test chart, or a zone plate, or something designed to show focus issues (rather than a wedding shot!) and shoot that in the same way. Start zoomed in and focussed, and pull out. You should clearly see the image going out of focus. Put the video on a DVD and send it to your named contact at Sony.

If you don't know what test charts or zone plates are, search with Google Images. There are plenty out there you can download and print off yourself.

HTH

Mark

James,

Do you not have the Sony 2 year Silver Support, I thought you may have got a replacement whilst yours is in for repair.

The Silver Support's replacement loan only applies if they can't fix and return your camera within their guaranteed seven day turnaround. So you won't be without for more than seven days, but that's no good if you need to use your camera even once in that week!

Yeah I've got the 2 year silver support, but you don't get a loan unit until 7 working days after they collect, so had to hire a camera,

Sony looked at my sample and chap on the phone agreed that it looked like there was a fault, they're collecting it (again) on Tuesday, and when it arrives on Wednesday, if, upon inspection, they agree it has a fault, the chap on the phone said they'd send a loan camera the same or the next day.

Hopefully they will honour that.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks for the info/suggestions.

James

Ian, do you still have the letter(s) you sent to high level sony folk? I'd love to have a read and maybe 'borrow' some choice phrases.

Its such an obvious problem I cannot believe Sony repair center 'tested it over a period of 2 days, and found no fault'


With regards to focus macro, I also thought that since the default setting was on, that it is fine to shoot with it on, i find that it gives you a better focal range (for want of a better phrase)

Anyways, have a look at the file and let me know your thoughts

Again, any help/suggestions are much appreciated.
[/QUOTE]

Hi, James . . .

Sorry I couldn't write sooner. Just got back from a shoot out-of-town.

Please let me know if Sony does, on the next go-around, actually fix your back-focus issues. As I mentioned, this problem plagued both HVR-V1U's - plus two fixed lens HVR-Z7U camcorders. Sony replaced several cameras -- and even replacements needed work before they were acceptable. I believe that there are a lot of cameras out there that have been issued that don't perform back-focus properly - and some folks new to HD may not recognize the flaw. Sony of Canada got Sony Japan involved regarding all of the issues. It was only one really good tech at Sony who was able to manually set up the cameras from scratch to make my Z7U's focus properly. He found a design flaw with the back-flange adjustment system of the Z7U that he is asking Japan to have a look at. He feels a firmware update could fix the issue. This goes back to March - but haven't heard of a fix. As such, there are limitations when using the accessory wide-angle lens with the Z7U unless a Sony tech makes the lens match the camera - this is something that should not be required and as such, the back-flange adjustment can not function as it should.

When you get your camera back, go over the back-focus with a fine tooth comb. All I can say is that over almost 1.5 years my cameras were returned as "repaired" or "fixed" and it appeared nothing was done in the name of improvement.

If everything works great with the next fix, that's awesome. If not, let me know so that I can round up some of the letters that I used that did get support.

The sad thing . . . when Sony was having issues trying to get the back-focus fixed, and they couldn't I would get excuses such as, "you know this is really a consumer / prosumer camera - not a true professional product . . . you are expecting too much from it." What a crock! I didn't accept this since 1) HD is NOT HD when there is little definition due to out-of-focus footage (consumer camera or not) . . . and 2) Sony chooses to market their V1, Z5 and Z7 as "professional products". It's an insult to you, as a consumer, to be told, by Sony, when it suits them, that due to design flaws that the camera is basically a "toy" that should not need to focus accurately.

I'd be interested to hear if you do get an improvement when the camera is returned. If not, you'll need to turn up the heat. I did and it got me working cameras. People shouldn't need to yell, kick and scream to be heard by Sony . . .

Ian

PS: I always shoot with the macro function turned "off". Having it turned off likely won't change your back-focus status . . . for me I find turning it off simply helps getting better accuracy when shooting video with auto-focus turned on.





Ian

Duplicate post deleted.

Hi Ian,

I got tired of dealing with the call centre, so I asked to speak to the repair centre technicians directly, once I did, things started to look up.

I explained the fault to the technician, showed him the clip online, and he agreed that its a back focus issue.

This was yesterday.

Today I got a call saying my camera was fixed, "it was a lens problem"

They're going to keep it for testing for another couple of days as the problem was "intermitent rather than constant"

So I'll ost back when I actually get my camera returned, to see if it has indeed been fixed.

Thanks

James

Today I got a call saying my camera was fixed, "it was a lens problem"

They're going to keep it for testing for another couple of days as the problem was "intermitent rather than constant"
James

I would think it would a lens "adjustment" problem as opposed to a "lens problem". And that statement about it being intermitent kind of worries me. How can a physical/mechanical issue be intermitent unless one of the lens elements it sticking and not moving freely. Hmmmm. Good luck. I hope it works this time and I am in error.

Well, I got my Z5 back, they actually fixed it, EVENTUALLY.

I had to sxend it to them twice, and actually speak to one of the repair technicians, but we got there in the end.

I am happy once more.

Thanks for the input during my time of despair.

To anyone who may have this problem in the future, insist that you speak to the technician who will be looking at your camera, as soon as I did that, I had my camera repaired and back to me within 48 hours.

I spoke to the technician at length about the issue, he said that there is him and one other guy who look at any z5s that are sent back with a problem (so just 2 guys that look at ALL sent back z5s in the UK!), this is the first time the they have seen a back focus issue with the Z5, but he said that it was obvious this was the problem.

He confirmed it has nothing to to lighting conditions, focus macro being on or off etc..

He did say that if you use auto focus, you probably wouldn;t notice if your camera has a back focus isse or not (as the AF would compensate).

I've done a bunch of test at home, and it looks like its been fixed completely.

I'll know for sure thie weekend.

Cheers again

James