OK i'm looking for a new tripod for my EX1, i've narrowed my choice down to the Sachtler FSB 6 or FSB 8 or the new Vinten vision 3 AS.

I know all of these tripods are good but does anyone out there have experience of all of them ?

Are these tripods true fluid heads or are they friction plate designs like the
manfrotto 503 hdv which i currently using ?

I'll be using the tripod to shoot all kinds of stuff, weddings, interviews, theatre performances, corporate stuff.

Sometimes with just the EX1, or sometimes i have 2 recievers and a large swit battery on the camera also.

Thanks.
Paul.

Don't have experience of both systems, but do have pretty extensive experience with the Vinten stuff.

The best way is to try this stuff out.

Fire an e - mail to: Peter.Harman@VitecGroup.com and tee up a test drive of a Vinten AS system.

Don't know how you get to test drive a Sachtler system, maybe Peter can tell you.


CS

I do not have any experience with the Vinten equipment. If you want to know a bit more about the Sachtler stuff you are considering then please read:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/tripod-sticks-heads/238166-sachtler-fsb-8-75-cf-speed-lock-vs-miller-dv20-solo-cf.html

I am sure based on Chris Soucy's that the Vinten is just as good.

Now you say you are thinking of buying tripods but you refer to the fluid head models. I believe any of these heads will be well suited for the EX1. I chose the FSB-8 because of the extra weight capacity but the EX1 is lighter. If you are planning on using the EX1 mainly without extras, then the FSB-6 might be more suitable.

Once you settle on one of these three heads, you need to determine what tripod to put under them. I would think that most of those supplied by the companies in packages will be suitable but you might have specific preferences. If you read the many posts here including my own you will see good recommendations. I personally have to take exception with the Miller Solo CF legs as they just don't have what it takes.

As far as the legs go, i'll probably for 2 stage with ground spreader.

Another thing i wondered about, the older vintens, the pro6 hdv models used the same tripod plate as my current manfrotto 503 hdv head, does anyone know if the vision 3AS still uses the same plate ? The reason being is because i use a shoulder mount and a glidecam with my EX1, i have a manfrotto adaptor plate on both devices so that i can quickly swap between tripod and shoulder support, other wise i'm going to have to put a manfrotto adaptor on this new tripod, which on the vinten would mean loosing the use of the side load facility.

Paul.

Paul,

The Pro6-HDV doesn't use the same plate as Manfrotto. Peter Harman confirmed in another post that the internals are based on the 503HDV but the rest of the head is Vinten-specific, including the side-load plate. Only the older Protouch heads use Manfrotto plates.

As far as I know, the Sachtler heads are true fluid.

I don't think there's a lot in it between the brands. Of course, fanboys of each will have their own opinions (my Sachlter is waaaaaay better than Chris' Vinten, just because I say so!). But seriously, at this performance level it's down to what type you personally prefer.

About the only major difference that would matter to me is the Vinten's continuously adjustable perfect counterbalance, which is logically better than the Sachtler's 10 fixed steps. But do watch of the centre of gravity requirements on the AS3, as pointed out by Chris in his review.

Price may also be a factor. I think that a complete Sachtler FSB-6 or FSB-8 system is cheaper than a comparative Vinten AS-3 system.

For trying out - CVP, Videogear and ProAV would probably be more than happy to let you visit for a play if you are intending to drop some serious cash. (Or Peter might let you have a 5 minute trolley dash in the Vinten warehouse!)

But do watch of the centre of gravity requirements on the AS3, as pointed out by Chris in his review.

Someone actually reads the stuff I write, it's not wasted after all!

Geez, I was starting to wonder.

Think I might induct you, Mike, into the "Tripod Testers from Hell" group I'm hopefully setting up with Les Nagy (unless my last mail to him sent him running, screaming, for the hills - bloody long run from Hamilton).

Les, your advice is spot on, as per usual, as is yours, Mike.

I'm definately feeling redundant!

Oh well, there's bigger fish to fry elsewhere.

Good luck with the support purchase, Paul.

(Er, do not, under any circumstances, go for a ground spreader unless the vast majority of your shooting in on dead flat, solid flooring/ road/ footpath. They are instant death on uneven ground and a complete waste of space.)

Oh, you could fit a Manfrotto adaptor to the Vinten plate with a bit of hocus pocus, which would still allow use of the side load plate, but Peter can run through that with you when you see him (if he doesn't know, I do, just ask if necessary).


CS

When I just purchased my FSB-8 I actually was looking to buy the new Vinten because of the continuously variable counterbalance but it was not available. It is a very nice feature but I don't regret getting the Sachtler. If it comes down to price and/or availability then the Sachtler is not going to let you down. If you want the continuously variable balance and don't mind the higher price then I am sure it is as good or better.

The Sachtlers FSBs are true fluid heads, as is the Vinten Vision 3 AS. The Manfrotto 503 and the Vinten Pro6-HDV are fluid like goop shear friction devices with unwanted stiction and bounce back. Don't even consider them for HD work.

Mid-level spreaders are much preferred for general work and I would not get a ground level without a specific need for it. I have both but the ground level is detachable.

Hi guys.

Wow, thanks for the advice, it seems i can't go far wrong with either of these tripods, and either should be a far better bit of kit than my 503hdv.
I've found a shop not far from me which seems to have the Sachtlers and the Vinten in stock, so definately a road trip on the cards there, hopefully in the next couple of weeks, i'll post my impressions here.

Thanks again.
Paul.

Paul,

You're not wrong there! I went from the Vinten Pro-6 HDV (similar to 503HDV) to the Sachtler DV6-SB (the predecessor to the FSB-6 and -8). It's like night and day, I was literally laughing when I first used it, so smooth and beautiful.

I'm sure it'd have been exactly the same if I went to a "big" Vinten too.

At the time I purchased, the Sachtlers offered lower counterbalance settings (for lower payloads) without the need to change springs like the Vinten Vision 3. Then two things happened: Sachtler launched the better FSB range (more variety of payloads for smaller cams and slightly cheaper) and Vinten launched the AS range, just to rub it in!

Oh yeah, I remember now Chris: I went for Sachtler over Vinten because I like the "Big S" on the side!

I'm probably going to go for the FSB6, however, i may have the chance of a FSB6 head at the right price, will this head fit onto my manfrotto 525 legs ?
Both are 75mm bowl.

Thanks, Paul.

Yes, the FSB-6 should fit those legs, but as far as I can tell it would be silly to not get the tripod legs that come with the FSB for about $120 more than just the head by itself.
Sachtler | 0442 FSB-6 with ENG75-2D and Mid-Level Spreader (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/545155-REG/Sachtler_0442_0442_FSB_6_with_ENG75_2D.html)

and, you get the carry case too, forgot that!

Well as it happens, i've been shopping around and have just been quoted a good price for the vinten vision 3as, complete or head only, a £450 price difference between the head and complete kit so i'm probably gonna go with the vinten now, only decision now is head or complete kit, either way when i do get it i'll try the vinten head on the manfrotto legs, then i'll post my findings here for future reference for others. It's gonna take about 7 - 10 days for the vinten to arrive after i order it in a couple of days.

Paul.

The Vinten heads have an extremely large three lobed handle with an equally oversized grip cup.

On non - Vinten sticks this usually leads to markedly (as in PIA) reduced adjustment range when leveling, before something collides with the underside of the receiver.

Additionally, those big lobes can impact on the tripod legs when attempting to close it, to the point of causing damage to either the legs or the hinge pins.

Both my V3 and V3AS are, to all intents and purposes, unusable on both my Manfrotto 520's and 528XB's (not, I stress, that I am interested in using them on either - the 520's are a joke and the 528's unliftable).


CS

Thanks Chris, i was hoping you'd chip in with some advice there.
I've been offered a vision 3as head for £655 or with 2 stage legs and ground spreader for £1092, which seems quite a good price.
I take it that you're happy with your vision 3as ?

The other thing which you seem to know about which i don't is the centre of gravity thing, is this different on different tripod models/makes ?
I'll be using an EX1, sometimes with 2 sennheiser G2 recievers on top which i mount vertically, (so that i can see the screen on them whilst shooting), also i'll be using a manfrotto adaptor plate so that i can swap between tripod, shoulder support and glidecam, this adaptor add's about 10mm height i reckon.

It'd be nice if vinten sold one of these adaptor plates, as it is i'm gonna have to leave the manfrotto adaptor on the vinten, which means i won't be able to make use of the vinten side load facility, i don't expect the manfrotto plate on the bottom of my camera is gonna slide straight into the vinten head.

All this advice i'm getting is really helpful.

Thanks.
Paul.

I've just looked at the pictures of the vision 3as head, i see what you mean about the locking handle having 3 big lobes.

Would the manfrotto locking handle screw onto the vinten ? I wonder if the thread size is the same ?
Will the actual ball of the vinten head sit in the manfrotto bowl ok ?
If the locking handle is the only problem and the manfrotto one won't fit onto the vinten then i could easily get one custom made, ie, vinten thread/manfrotto dimensions, my dad has a lathe which he's very handy with.
This could potentially save me about £450.
Are the vinten legs really that much better than the manfrotto ? I've never used anything much different to my manfrotto so i don't have the experince of better tripods.

Thanks.
Paul.

I've just looked at the pictures of the vision 3as head, i see what you mean about the locking handle having 3 big lobes.

Would the manfrotto locking handle screw onto the vinten ? I wonder if the thread size is the same ?
The thread on the vinten lock and the Bogen are not the same.

If the same thread is used on the 3AS as on the 3, it would match the Gitzo... and if it is the same, it is a double-threaded screw that won't match anything else and can't be easily made.

However, it is likely the head will fit on your Bogen tripod. The best would be to try it. Take your tripod somewhere where there is a head and see if it works.

As Chris has pointed out in several cases, even though the mounts are the same size, the way they are actually made may or may not allow one brand head to be used on another brand tripod. Sometimes it works well, sometimes just okay, sometimes it doesn't.

Regarding the plate, this comes with the head. You want to use the correct plate for the head on your camera. The plates (in both regular length and extended lengths) are usually sold separately. The plates are shown on Page 6 of the Vinten Price List that Chris links to in another thread (3rd link in the 1st post):
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/tripod-sticks-heads/215920-vinten-vision-3-head-review.html

Again, the locking nut on the Vinten head may not cause a problem with your tripod, but the easiest is to try it.

I'd like to try this combo out first in a shop but i can't find anyone with a vinten 3as in stock. The shop which can give me the best price does have a vision 3 in stock but not the newer 3as model, they will try the older vision 3 head on a manfrotto 525 tripod tommorow and let me know if it fit's.
Is the older vision 3 and newer vision 3as the same dimension ?

The problem i have is, if i buy the head first and it doesn't fit correctly then i can still get the legs/spreader/bag after, however i don't get the good "full kit" price when buying the parts seperately, on the other hand i don't want to order the full kit, get it home then find out that the 3as head would've fitted on the 525 legs after all, that's £450 that i could've spent elswhere.

If there's anyone out there, maybe a shop which sells these items and has them in stock, which could try them together for me it'd be much appreciated.

Cheers, Paul.

I take it that you're happy with your vision 3as ?

Ooooh yes!

OK, where to start? Maybe at the end?

The Manfrotto 525's. The 525's are the immediate successor to the 520's (which I have).

As Jack has already said, the Vinten & Manfrotto handles are not swapable (unfortunately) and making a Manfrotto style clamp with a Vinten thread is, I gather, harder than it looks.

(All following comments regarding the 525's are in blissfull ignorance of the facts, as I've never used a set).

I am confidant that the head will sit comfortably enough on the sticks, no problem. It's that bowl clamp which will give you the sh*ts in very short order.

Then there is the sticks themselves. Unless Manfrotto raised their game by an order of magnitude (or 5) over the 520's, you really do not want an EX1 and V3 AS sat on such a triangular pile of jello.

My advice is to fire a mail to Peter.Harman@VitecGroup.com and get him to tee up a test drive somehow/ where. Take along your 525's and compare them to a set of Vinten sticks.

I think that any such A - B comparison will see the 525's relegated to a cupboard/ e - bay auction in very short order indeed.

The camera plate on the V 3 AS IS NOT the same as the plate on the V 3. The V 3 plate will fit on the 3 AS but is a bit loose. I can't recall trying the 3 AS plate in the V 3 but from the above I'd say it will be too large.

The ball bases on both V 3 & V 3 AS are identical, tho' the V 3 AS itself is significantly larger than the V 3.

The Manfrotto plate will not fit either a V 3 or V 3 AS head. Shame about having to use the Manfrotto plate for swapability, that side load on the Vinten is a dream. That said, if you're using the Manfrotto adapter unit, it is easier to load into than a standard V 3.

With the Manfrotto adapter unit, Manfrotto plate, EX 1 and twin wireless receivers up top you should be good to go with the 3 AS, tho' this really is something best tried if you can tee up a test drive.

COG is a head thing, pure and simple, the sticks make no difference at all.

All in all, you're best route from here is the test drive and direct A - B comparison, then go for the whole Vinten system (all things being equal).

I'll be interested in how it goes.


CS

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies.

So, the ball bases on both V 3 & V 3 AS are identical, tho' the V 3 AS itself is significantly larger than the V 3 ? Interesting, the shop where i'm gonna buy the tripod (eventually) has a vision 3 (not AS) and 525 legs in stock and are gonna try the combination tomorrow, if the older vision 3 fits the 525 legs then it's fair to say the newer 3AS will fit also IF the level lock is the same on the vision 3 and the 3AS.
This just leads me to the legs, are the vintens really that much better than the manfrotto 525's ?

Thanks again, Paul.

are the vintens really that much better than the manfrotto 525's ?

Well, as I said, I haven't used a set so have no real proof one way or another, and this is one of those subjects where I could talk till I'm blue in the face and not persuade you on either side of the argument.

The only real answer is to prove it to yourself, as seeing really is believing. If you give Peter a bell on 01284 752 121 (land line) or 07879 600 991 (Mobile) I'm sure he'll sort you with a demo.

If you want a crash course in support superlatives, start with a V 3 AS on your 525's, then try out a set of Vinten 75 mm sticks, then try a set of Vinten 100 mm sticks. Then, if you really want a serious case of tripod envy, see if he can manage a set of FiberTec's.

Bit dangerous, that last one, as he'll need a tranquiliser gun and a crowbar to prise them out of your hands afterwards.

Oh, better up the limit on your credit card before you go, you might just need it.


CS