Sly and slick pro cams aren't easy to come by these days. Not since Pana's EZ1 have we had a smallish pro cam with 1/3" CCDs. Look it. Besides its big CCDs in a small footprint, it also has a big lens, a big viewfinder (and a big price tag). The EZ1 sleek body is pro black. A nice cam for its day, and perhaps for even today.

From the EZ1, the CCDs began to shrink, to 1/4" CCDs then 1/6" CCDs. The lenses got smaller too and the pro black color disappeared and replaced with silver. Even the viewfinders shrunk, and so much so that they have become unusable - a memento of sorts, I guess. A cam wouldn't be a cam without a viewfinder, would it? Even though it's only there for show.

But good things can happen. Look at the Black Mamba. A pro black cam sold at consumer prices, with features that would have given pros heart attacks 20 years ago. The LUX is nothing to spit at either. And along with its near useless viewfinder comes a powerfully sharp, 3 & 1/2" LCD! Who cares about the viewfinder? In fact, who cares about the 1/6" CCDs and the smaller Leica lens? I don't. But then I don't own one. :-))

You know, Frank, if it's any consolation (which I know it isn't), camcorders aren't the only items the rest of the world cares about that can end up being developed and sold only in Japan. Recently I have been checking out ear/headphones and there are any number of them which never make it to the North American market - several of them very highly regarded by people who know a heck of a lot more than I do about good sound. On the other hand, there's the Apple iPod mini, which is causing an uproar in overseas markets and is generally not going to be available there till American demand is met first. And there's the iTunes music store - the unavailability of which caused some very bitter commentary for awhile by a number of European posters on a couple of boards. The difference seems to be (gross generalization here) that at least some major Japanese companies don't really care whether some of their best, most likely to sell if ever available, products really hit other markets or not. Having said that, I'm coming around to the view that with the internet it's really not as difficult as one might think to buy and use a product like a camcorder that wasn't produced with English in mind. The real annoyance is that it's a matter of luck finding out that a great one exists.

There were some neat Sony DV decks that never made it overseas either. However, for the price of one of these decks, you can buy a Black Mamba, a burger and super sized fries at MacDonalds. Since I've been into photography for most of my life, I've often noticed B&H bringing in certain Nikon lenses (Gray Market) because Nikon USA didn't bring them in (nor Nikon Canada). For example, there was US demand for the pro black Nikkor 45P F2.8 lens. B&H realized a market and so brought it in. After a year of gray market sales, Nikon USA's upstairs little light lit and brought them in. Funny thing was, few were buying this lens anymore because the people who wanted it had already bought, while other people got wise from the boards about the much cheaper, faster and somewhat sharper Nikkor 50mm F1.8. (Nikon USA missed the boat---and so did Pana with the black mamba.) I'm sure too that one could build a big business bringing in Japanese Domestic products, the good stuff, as you suggested. Just look at Q Tech---. :-))

Both of you are right and that is what makes this forum and the Internet valuable to us consumers.

But who really cares if the camera body is black or not?

Those people who own the black beauties :-))

And those who drool over one.

and let us not forget, Fred

Yeah, forgot about, Fred. I wonder how he's doing with his PV-DV953? That's the cam he has, I think. I wonder if he ever painted it black. Hope not. :-))


--------------------------------------------------------
still waiting for pana USA to announce the PV-MX3000

Tommy sent me this: http://www.majid.info/mylos/weblog/2004/04/17-1.html

Isnt this available now in limited import availability thru chuckmeister? I hear it is a beautiful camcorder.

Oh it is a beautiful camcorder! I don't know if you can still get the black ones or not. Allan Rejoso (here on this board) would be able to tell you. And if you do want one, I would highly recommend you get it from him.
From what I understand the Black Mamba is the GS100K.

APPARENTLY there is about to be released
a successor to the MX7000 - the MX8000 - i know no one who has seen an actual model, but it is supposed to be available around the 4th of July or thereabouts. Could be a powerhouse.

John... kid... there's no such thing as "black mamba" or Mx7000 or Mx8000. this is all a marketing trick for a guy to make a buck.
=)
the so called mx8000 is the GS400 and it will be available world-wide (more or less... I think Canada got screwed by Pana)
go and read the specs in the GS400 thread.

It was a JAPAN release that was imported here in small quantities - some of the North American releases are more dumbed down versions of Japan releases so as not to interfere with the PANasonic professional line. IT'S true, Georgie. And heck i dont mind being called a kid even though I am 40 years old - i still feel young!

John, there is no MX7000 as George Beck mentioned. Supervideo.com referred to the NV-GS100 as the MX7000 and Black Mamba but the official name is still NV-GS100. Do a search on NV-MX7000 and you'll see what I'm talking about.


George, where did you get those specs from? Sony CCDs?

There was a Norway (if I remember correctly) dealer who's specs of GS400 included 1/4.7" CCD
It's a bit strange tho, I just saw a Sony cam with CCDs having the same specs...
Matsushita does now own Sony too... right?

Matsushita does now own Sony too... right?

They are very much still rivals.

Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. is an electronics manufacturer based in Kadoma, Osaka prefecture, Japan. Its brands include Panasonic, National, Nais, Quasar and Technics, and they are the controlling stockholder of the Japan Victor Company (JVC). It was founded by Konosuke Matsushita in 1918, with its first product being a bicycle lamp. Since then, it has became the largest Japanese electronics producer and competes mainly with Sony, Toshiba and Philips. In addition to electronics Matsushita offers non-electronic products and services such as home renovation services.

- ScienceDaily

so... no Sony CCD for sure! =))

Sony CCDs? Sony must have had a fire sale. But never mind about all that Son'. I'm still wondering when Pana USA will be bringing in the PV-MX3000. Wait---maybe it's the DVC30? Maybe the GS400 is really the MX5000? (their pics almost match).

hey Frank... what did you put in that pipe of yours today? =)
don't ya be smokin' any weeds and stuf.... without sharing!
=)

as you know the Mx500 is being replaced by the GS400. :)
and by the way there's no other way to look when you put the large optics on that small cam =)

imagine a GS100k with large optics, more resolution and HD =)

at least this time we are all equally blessed with the same specs ;)

I tried that once and met my make or. I think I was 14---rocky concert. After a few hours I was throwing it all up in, hello, back to reality. I never smoked all my life, but started the pipe about 20 years ago. Good for the arthritis, or so I tell myself. How's that for double talk? :-))

From those GS400 pics, the front lens element does look a lot wider than the MX5's. I hope the cam isn't front heavy. :-))

imagine a GS100k with large optics, more resolution and HD =)

You left one out. English menus! Well that and I wouldn't get too worked up about the HD.

Now its just sit back and wait...

HD in Japan just means high definition and it is not the same thing as MPEG2 HD. :-))

PS: English has become so bastardized over the years that it is now a dying language, eh?

Frank, I'm in Canada and here HD means at least 720p =)
we just have to put a larger battery on the back to counter the heavier optics ;-)


PS. I'm helpin' with the English there too =) (it's my 3rd language)

It won't be surprising at all if Pany uses or has been using Sony CCDs. Sony controls the CCD market right? Jap sellers say (talk is cheap but I don't care) Sony tend to save their latest CCDs for their own use (and that seems to be the case), and sells its older ones to whoever needs them. Pany sure could make good use of HAD technology.

From those GS400 pics, they might as well call it an MX. Who knows, the Chuckmeister might be right afterall with MX8000? Pany Japan has been completely quiet on the GS100 replacement and nobody knows for sure what they'll release in Japan and how they'll call it here.

Pany won't be selling a HI-VISION cam for $1,500 or less in the near future.

Pany sure could make good use of HAD technology.Ain't that the truth.

George, Canadian, eh? :-))

Allan, didn't know that (Sony and the CCD market)
So there's a pretty good chance that the CCD in GS400 will be the same CCD as in Sony's DSR-PDX10.

1/4.7" 1,070,000 pixels

The GS400 has been named the same (more or less in Europe, US, and it does follow the GS named series in Japan).

Frank, Go Leafs GO, eh? ;))
you know I miss so much europen-football (soccer as they call it here), I don't like the games here too much,lots of violence.
and if you have noticed the games americas play are meant for people with Attention Deficit Disorder =) the continious gameplay (or attack) is about 30 sec. basketball, 15 sec baseball, 20 sec football =) I guess thats why when people here watch Euro-football, get confused after watching couple of minutes ;-)) where they don't have those small portions of gameplay :P

I never really liked sports, just school, martial arts and snow---never mind the fairer side; nowadays, pansonical hand-helds and shooting stuff. What I want is 20X zoom, though. Maybe I'll have to switch over to the other side.

I think I got through to Japan with my e-mail, asking about what I asked up top. Down-Under didn't pan out this time.

When those 1/4.7 chips first hit the market, a lot of consumers thought they were big CCDs. Fractions sure do fool a lot of people.

So Tommy and all, how do you guys like you GS100's? What did you pay for them and where did you get them - if you're not comfortable answering the price i understand - just ballpark.
and, is this the best 3ccd miniDV camcorder to be had right now in this price range?
thanks,
John

Tommy got his from Price Japan, because Allan was in Mexico at the time Tommy wanted to order one. A few other members also bought from Price Japan while other bought through Allan or the Chuckmeister's source.

My 2 cents: yes, I think the GS100 is the ultimate hand-held in a small footprint.

The price? Around $1400 US which includes insured shipping. Some got it cheaper before the US Dollar went down against the Japanese Yen.

What is his contact info, anyone? Thank you. --John

You can reach Allan here.

rejoso@jcom.home.ne.jp

THanks, Paul.
-John

Allan's contact e-mail is in the locked top thread of this forum.

so apparently there will be a replacement to the Black Mamba MX7000 - at least it is a rumor.

And I still havent heard back from Allan - anyone know if he is indisposed?

Does Allan know anything of the GS100 replacement?
Thanks,
John

So far the only new cam announced by Pana is the NV-GS400/PV-GS400.

Hi John,

All the hot rumors about the GS400 are in this mesage board so just stayed tuned. In Japan, there is no info yet about the replacement to the GS100, but it can be easily inferred that a new one should be coming out in July. It's an Olympics year afterall. The replacement could be this GS400 or it could be a different one especially designed to suit the taste of the Jap market.

Sorry I havent answered your mail because I cant find the black mamba, but I remember the member Aaron Kwinter is trying to sell his.

Very few brand new units of the silver GS100 are still available but their prices (in Yen) have gone back to Aug 2003 levels (JPY118,000 - 126,000 plus 5% tax). For your info, prices of the black mamba went down to as low as 100,000 at the end of Feb 2004. Note that the value of Yen against the US$ has gone up from around 115 (in summer last year) to around 108 these days.

So if you really want the black mamba, your best bet would be those members who may want to sell theirs for any reason. If they got their cam from me, PJ or the Chuckmeister, you are guaranteed they got their cams brand new less than a year ago. There is a huge second hand electronics shop in Tokyo but I haven't seen a used black mamba for sale, perhaps because that cam is one hell of a good buy (for those who own it). BTW, I have a black mamba too (actually the very last unit I grabbed in Feb) and I'm not selling it :-)). Anybody interested to get my Optura100 with DM-50??? Unfortunately, it's the Jap version (PV130).

Hi, Allan. No problem. Thanks for the reply.
I dont have to have a Black Mamba - i was curious about it, but if we are on the heels of a new model that might be better - i may wait.

I dont know yet. Is Panasonic going to go HDV in 2004, early '05?

If there were no GS100 - what is the next best thing in the price range of the GS100 or lower ---- looking for clean color, etc.

Thanks. I will let you know what's up. I'll keep an eye out for the latest on what is next.

'Preciate it, Allan and all,
JOHN haskins

If you're serious, Allan can still get you a silver GS100.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Haskins :

I dont have to have a Black Mamba - i was curious about it, but if we are on the heels of a new model that might be better - i may wait.

Yes, you'd better wait for this GS400 or the upcoming Opturas.


I dont know yet. Is Panasonic going to go HDV in 2004, early '05?

HDV is the only way to go, but it will probably take YEARS before a $1K HDV cam would be made available. In the meantime, enjoy shooting in DV format.



If there were no GS100 - what is the next best thing in the price range of the GS100 or lower ---- looking for clean color, etc.

Every cam make has its strong points and weak point so in the end, it's mostly a matter of preferences. But if you can afford to spend for top-class consumer cams and willing to do so, then IMO you might as well stick to that class. This is just a personal thing but I like the Canon Opturas too (there is something about the Canon look that I really like - and I have one). Also, I feel the Sony PC300 video looked great (despite my bias against Sony's color saturation) and I find its new touch-screen menu to be cool. One more thing, good quality widescreen has become important to me since last year (and on that aspect my black mamba blows my Optura100 away), although there are some issues when it comes to sharing video with friends and relatives who own 4:3 TVs.

You can also have a look at top class models of previous years (the Pany 953, the 852, JVC's 3000/4000/5000 and of course Optura100 are good cams too) and they should be a lot cheaper now.

Good luck!

Re: "JVC's 3000/4000/5000"

Missed one: 3000/3500/4000/5000.

Thanks, Allan and Frank.

I want a 3 chip for sure - going to do some serious keying and I need the best color separation i can get.

i know DV isnt the best for keying, but there are workarounds, enhancements, etc.

So in the 3 chip realm, i still like the GS100 for now.

Optura is still a 1 chip, right?

Thanks,
John

The 2 contending design (marketing) concepts right now:

3 small CCDS and small optics, against, 1 big multi-MP CCD and huge lens with RGB filter.

Which is more important to you, sharpness or color richness and accuracy?

I'll go for bight and bright lens, optical stabiliser and true resolution (540 lines). The sensor should be sensitive to 1 lux illumination, and the colour should be accurate (not rich, just rich enough). As a matter of fact, the camera that I like is available in the market, but paying US$10,000 for a camera is not possible for a structural engineer in Signapore.

I was not aware of that trend - i havent caught up on all the latest technology trends in this area.
color accuracy & richness is more desirable.
which cams sport this 1 big MP ccd?

Thanks, guys.
John

PC330, 1/3" 3MP, RGB Filter

Optura X1/300, 1/3.4" (ok it's 5/17" :-)), 2.2MP, RGB Filter

wow, i didnt know this.

so how does that Optura look, ALLan. How would it work for keying work - greens, etc.

thanks,
John

1/3.4" = .294"
1/3" = .333"

frank, what do those numbers mean?

would you feel comfortable shooting with the mp ccd thing for a good green key result?

anyone?

thanks,
john