I know that's a "loaded" question, but I'm just now starting to make money, nearly a year after I bought it. And it's mostly in the DV mode, believe it or not. I did one thing in SD, but I have to convert it now to DV.

I'm hoping to shoot in HD and make money that way soon. I feel like my friends who use the DVX100A in 60i mode to make a living, then do their films in 24p.

Let us know if you're profiting!

heath

I haven't made a nickel yet on HD, but customers are slowly gaining interest. Hoping to sell them on the idea of an HD Training video.

My biggest customer is a Fortune 50 Aerospace company that has dozens and dozens of beautiful Pioneer HD Plasma displays that do ridiculusly stupid things - like display powerpoint slides all day!!

The funniest one is located in one departments waiting area - it spends its days cycling through a 15 slide powerpoint presentation that's done mostly in BLACK AND WHITE!! I think it's about 55" Pioneer Plasma HD Display that probably cost $12,000, but is living it's life displaying a single crappy powerpoint presentation.

Silly huh?

Bill, is that company Pratt and Whitney?

heath

You must live near west palm beach Heath!

Si, senor! My close friend's Dad worked at the one in Palm Beach County, and decided to move up there.

Have you done, or will be doing, HDV stuff for them yet?

heath

I'm not sure if they will buy into it really soon, but I have pitched it to a few people. I think the only way to get my foot in the door to produce 'Corpoate HDV' would be to do something on spec first. I'll keep you posted.

Good idea. yeah, keep us up to date!

heath

Not on my HD1, but I've gotten several inquiries for some more 'risque' work. ;-)

Troy

Do you think there is a market for High Definition Porno Movies?

Before we go further, maybe we should consider not talking about producing porn.

My two cents,

heath

nuff said - agreed

This is a great topic, probably should be discussed way more on here....making money.

I am trying to start a "Weddings, Events, Original Television and Films" company right now. My specialty will be HDV (but, I will market as HD) productions.

Just a thought, but I'd really like to see a forum (or at least a new thread) on "Making a Living". There are so many things we could all share regarding making money...like marketing tips, etc.

I've always made money at television stations (sounds like Heath and I have similar backgrounds). Now I'm trying to go out on my own, and it's difficult...I'm in major debt!

Here is one of my ideas for making $$$ with HDV - I want to shoot weddings and burn DVD's. The next thing I want to do is figure out how to make HD DVD's. Anyone have the latest on that?

Murph

True HD DVDs are a little ways off, still.

You can market an HD wedding and get more money.

Debt sucks, but when it's expenses like gear and such, you can write it off.

I left TV news nearly 2 months ago and haven't looked back!

I'll submit your request!

heath

You could create Windows Media 9 HD and include one of the $199.00 Bravo D1 HD DVD players in the package. Then deliver both SD and HD to customer. DVDs are cheap enough these days that you could deliver a whole package that can be mailed to the guests.

You would have profit centers in Production, selling the HD Media/Player packed, and you could add in another profit center for fufillment (mailing the DVD's to all the guest - maybe with an invitation for a screening of the HD version at the brides house!)

How does that idea sound?

That's cool, but remember, most people aren't buying Windows Media 9-readable DVD players. Are they even out yet.

Otherwise, GREAT ideas!

heath

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought that the Bravo DVD Player did play Windows Media 9 in HD.

You're probably right, but still, that's a very small percent of the market, and most people who have bought new DVD players likely WON'T buy an HD/WM9 DVD player for a while, unless they have an HDTV.

heath

There's all kinds of business tips -- like how not to get in trouble, how to do things right, not get scammed, etc. -- in our Taking Care of Business forum. (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=40)

heath

Also, to help find gigs worldwide, check out our Helping Hands forum! (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=52)

heath

Thats pretty true. I was guessing that some videophile Grooms might really like to get an HD DVD Player as part of the package, and at the same time downconvert the entire video to also produce SD DVD's for family and other participants in the wedding.

Just my two cents.

Bravo D3 DVD should be able to play Windows Media when it is released.

However right now it is in "preliminary design stage", according to the manufacturer's email I received today.

Just FYI.

(And yes, I'm waiting for it just like you are! :)

Wow! Some awesome ideas!!

To take it one step further, I was thinking about doing this...

"Everyone dreams of the perfect Hollywood romance. Now, you can live it and have the movie to premiere for all your family and friends." (something like that)

What I'd like to do is spend a day prior to the wedding with the couple shooting a short "movie". I'll shoot them on the beach, at home...something whimsy and romantic. (interwoven with photos from their relationship, no audio from them, just mood music that uses their favorite tunes)

That'll be on the DVD as "A Love Story" or something like that...and also "Interviews" with family/friends and the actual wedding. I'll do the wedding as a "Documentry"...no fancy stuff like on the "A Love Story".

How does that sound? Something unique on a DVD.

murph

That's cool, Murph. I should suggest that to my friend who does weddings.

heath

That sounds like a really cool idea Chris. I bet it would be easy to sell if you presented at one of those wedding shows on a real nice looking HDTV. I'm pretty sure you can rent some of the higher end ones.

You could also pitch the customers with 'preserving their precious memories in the TV Format of the future' as a selling point for HD.

Murph,
That's a great idea. you should really follow through on that. Anything to keep busy right? I hear you on the whole "in debt" thing but it's something we have to do in order to make our ideas into reality, right?

I have only made a little bit of money selling copies of my HDV short to friends and family. SD DVD, I still haven't tried the whole WM9 HDDVD.

You can always go market the HDV to a company to make corporate videos. But drop the V and make it HD! ;-)

heath

In actuality it is HD! The medium that we're using to record it is HDV, but the net product (those actualy mpg tranport streams) are pretty much what the cable and satellite companies are delivering now and calling HD.

Good point.

hwm

100% HD if you look at the specs. It's the bottom of the barrel HD, but hey...who cares? The fact is that no one cares except the people on this board because we're "in the know" regarding the minute details of "TS" vs. "PS". When you get down to it...we definately can deliver a product that "matches or comes very close"to high definition productions that cost 10 times as much. We've all read and heard it multiple times from people - our camera makes a comparable image. It also has the resolution of what is "standards based" HD. Therefore, just like the previous poster said...we shoot HD!

Hey, Heath...go ahead and tell your friend my idea. There ain't no competition on here, and I really like that a lot.

FYI - I've just applied for another network affiliate job in my area. (ABC affiliate) I'm broke, so I need a job that pays weekly again....spent all my cash on HD(V)! Wish me luck, it's for shooting and editing one of the most popular shows in New England.

Murph

We have paying customers for a docudrama we're editing now & a cooking show coming up.

The last day of our doc shoot, we were on the Franklin St Bridge
near the MLK center, getting the shot of downtown Atlanta skyscrapers (Guess every video shooter in ATL goes there) . A producer and cameraman/DP roll up
with a rented Sony Cine_Alta for a documentary they're shooting on a former president of Notre Dame Univ. So we compared notes on lighting and cameras.

They had a nice lens, bridge plate, matte box, filters. I'd love to have the huge budget (& profit!) to rent the Cine Alta or Varicam.

But nice to know I can do Hi Def TV on a small budget.

Ed Hill

I run an Advertising Company that uses
Plasma Ed & HD to display ads. Currently
we are using SanDisk Flash Cards as input
with ads created in photoshop. We do not
use sound or motion at this time. We do
simple to complex stills. They are by no
means as good as HD 1080 x 1920.
How could our ads be created with your
cameras to improve our format and generate
revenues for you?
Thank you for your replies.
D. Brewer

The JVC JY-HD10 & HD1 both produce MPG Tranport Streams which are 1280x720 pixels - but progressive scan instead of interlaced. If you take your time doing the photography you can make stunning images with these cameras.

I would guess there are 2 ways that you could drive your Plasma HD displays using HD Footage. Method one would be to use a D-VHS VCR to drive the display. You can make the ad using the HD10 camera, then record it to the D-VHS tape. You can fit 420 minutes on one of the longer tapes.

The second way would be to hook the plasma display to a PC and use a player like Windows Media 9 to cycle the ads for the viewers. This method might be more flexible, but alot more expensive. The JVC D-VHS players can be had refurbished for about $280. You would need a PC that has a processor of at least 2.8GHZ to use it to drive the display.

I hope that helps. Please send me an email as I am working on something like this for a corporate customer.

Bill Piedra

Does anyone know if the HD10 would be ideal for producing simple football game tapes? I"m talking shooting the game and then dubbing straight off the HDV tape onto VHS for the coaches to review. (I have the opportunity to do that and get paid!) But my question is this--would there be any increase in resolution in the final VHS dub or would it look the same as if I'd shot in DV? Would the wide-screen mode lend itself to the game better than 4:3 format? And how would I make the VHS dub--using the analog output cable from the camcorder or would I need one of the HDV decks (clamshell or 40000)?
Maybe I'd be the first among the group to actually make money...and not have to do any editing in the process!!!

I don't see any advantage to using the HD10 if you're going to downconvert to low resolution VHS. Reviewing game in HD would be excellent thought.

Also, this camera is not very good in low light AND the fast pans that would be required for a football game would look terrible. I would suggest a nice 3 chip SD camera for that sort of job.

So you're saying there would be NO appearance of the image looking sharper in the sense that movies shot on 35mm and dumped to VHS look much better than movies shot in DV and put on VHS? I've already got a DV camera to shoot games. I was hoping shooting in HD would look "better" since you're starting with a better image.

Lynne, it will look better depending on how you shoot.

If you do lots of fast pans and zooms...probably not a good idea. But, I have found that shooting outdoors with the HD10u producing amazing (yes, truly amazing) footage.

Murph

Trust me, I do not pan and zoom no matter what I'm shooting. So how do I go from the HDV tape to VHS directly? I do not edit since they want the tape within hours of the game. Cable, clamshell or deck--which is best to send directly to VHS decks?

I think you can run a line directly to a VHS deck from the camera. I've yet to try it, but that will allow you to grab a "live to tape" VHS copy.

Murph

I'm looking at the JVC "clamshell" VH1 unit and I see where that outputs NTSC in letterbox mode but the cable option is certainly the most economical way to go. When you say outdoor stuff looks really sharp, you're not familiar with how it looks dubbed onto VHS, right? How's come nobody's tried this yet???

Built-in digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion allows easy dubbing between digital and analog sources. S-Video, composite and audio connectors function as both inputs and outputs, allowing HD/SD or DV sources to be dubbed from the CU-VH1U to an NTSC deck or analog material dubbed from an NTSC source onto Mini DV in the CU-VH1. Component video outputs allow dubbing from the CU-VH1U to a professional deck.

My roomate and I started a production company based completely around the HD10 back in March. We are in Atlanta. Appropriately, the name of our company is HighlyDef Productions.

We had been talking about doing a video production company for a while, but from a business standpoint I thought there were just way too many video production companies in Atlanta. The idea of being yet another one didn't excite me. I also didn't want to do sales or wedding videos if I didn't have to, I was more interested in doing documentaries, short features, etc.

Then I started reading about the HD10. I have been fascinated with HDTV since its inception, so the idea of being able to shoot HD at DV prices really got me fired up about the video business again. I hate even using the word video, because I think it gives people the idea that your product is "cheap". I prefer the term "digital film" :)

I have to tell you, the negative reaction I got from the local video experts and production companies in Atlanta is what really sold me on the camera. We would demo the camera, be amazed by the results, but they would almost make fun of us for wanting to buy the HD10 and not the PD150 (which is a great SD camera, don't get me wrong). I saw the same reaction 2 or 3 years ago to the new crop of digital projectors that started hurting the high end theater companies. Nobody wanted their $30,000 CRT projectors anymore.

Anyway, we absolutely love the product we get with this camera. We shoot only in HD mode, no exceptions. All of our deliverables have been 16:9 widescreen DVD, letterboxed on a regular TV. We keep the HD masters for future purposes, hopefully for HD DVD. If the client isn't interested in a widescreen or letterboxed product, we tell them we aren't interested. If you think about it, there is just a ton of widescreen content on regular TV. A lot of commercials are widescreen (letterboxed) now. It is amazing how a small thing like the aspect ratio can make your product seem like it cost more to produce, it just gives it a more film like appearance in my opinion.

Anyway, back to the original question, we have gotten about $13,000.00 worth of work since March, coming from two projects (one docu-drama, one video press kit for a pop artist). Luckily this is not my main job, or I would be broke :) However, considering this is only secondary income, and we have spent $0 on marketing or advertising, I think it is fair to say there is a market for the product.

The funny thing is we still don't own this camera. We have rented the camera so far to maintain our profit margin. We do own about $7,000.00 worth of lighting and audio equipment, and we also own an editing workstation with Vegas 4, ConnectHD, Adobe Encore 1.5, Adobe Photoshop, two 17" monitors, etc.

Here are a few tips for people thinking about starting an HD production company of their own:

1) Come up with a budget template in Excel or something similar and stick to it. Make sure to factor in your basic overhead for doing even the smallest job. For example, if your budgets are based on a per day shooting and editing rate, make sure you have a floor in there so you don't get screwed on a job of only 1 day shooting and 1 day of editing.

2) Include a 250GB external harddrive in the budget for every project, no matter what. Storage gets expensive, but at $250 that cost is a negligible piece of most production budgets. Make the client pay for it.

3) Don't be tempted to take every job. If you are being put in a position where you have to take every job because you are desperate for cash, get a "day job" until your production business takes off. If you start slashing your budgets and/or compromising on quality just to get the work, you only hurt yourself and the industry as a whole. The bottom line is that you have to establish a pattern of consistent quality of work and consistent budgets. If you start doing jobs on the cheap, you will likely only attract clients looking for the cheapest game in town.

4) This is basically the same thing as #3, but I'll say it again. Don't be the cheapest game in town. There is no money in being the budget or cheapest option in any market. If you want to be the WalMart of video production, you will likely not survive. WalMart is the exception, not the rule. The video and film production business is a very subjective one, so take advantage of that and strive to be the best, not the cheapest.

5) If possible, have one person who is an expert in the video / film / tv side, and one person who is an expert at the technical and/or business side. For example, my roomate (Ed Hill) has a long history as a camera operator and writer/director in the TV and news business. I have an IT and business background, my main business is an IT Consulting business I started 3 years ago. Ed basically acts as Writer/Director, and I act as Producer. The combination not only splits up the work load, but it helps to have the two different personalities involved in the process.

6) Oh yeah, make sure you get paid in 3rds, i.e., 1/3rd before you start doing anything, 2/3 after shooting, final payment at the end. We actually take our budget and break out the hardware from the labor, and we ask for 100% of the hardware and 33% of the labor up front. So far we have no complaints.

Hope this helps and gives people some encouragement about using the HD10 to make money.

Regards,

Ben

Great advice, Ben! Best of luck to you and everyone!

heath

I'm going to Turkey on Sunday to shoot a travelogue for a tour group. There will be almost 200 people on the trip. I took Ben's advice and broke up the payments over time. Thanks Ben.

The finished products I'll deliver the group who hired me are:
1. a feature length documentary / overview of the trip itself
2. - 5. lectures by 4 professor-types (it's an educational tour) which may run up to two hours each
6. at least one movie trailer to promote item #1 to be placed inside items #2 - 5 (the lecutres might end up on multiple DVDs instead of 1)

I'll output on standard DVD, likely two DVD-9s (the lectures will be compressed to a pretty small bitrate). I'll save the HD masters for the future in case they'd like to pay me for authoring the HD DVDs next year or whenever.

I've negotiated for royalties on DVD sales. The one thing I didn't negotiate is royalties on public exhibitions. The public exhibitions thing is where having an HD version should make a difference though, so hopefully they'll be happy with the prospect of paying me for projecting the HD version (instead of the SD DVD version they'll have).

The trip is from August 1-15, and afterwards I'm going elsewhere for two weeks. I'll be back September 1st, and upon my return I'll probably start a thread about the HDV experience.

I just got my HD10 about 12 hours ago. I sold my XL1s last week. After playing with the camera a bit tonight I'm very happy with my decision to jump to HDV.