I have searched these forums, but can't find my exact problem described here, so am making a new post. I bought a Canon XL1 new in May 2000, and (don't laugh) it has shot about 40 tapes in the 4 years. I always use Panasonic Professional DVM63 tapes. I usually pre-stripe the tapes to get continuous timecode before use, so total passes through the camera transport mechanism is less than a hundred hours. I couldn't imagine the XL1 is worn out. It has led a sheltered life. Here is my problem:

Last month May 2004 I hired a second XL1 and did a 2 camera shoot of a family wedding, with pro audio etc. Actually this was the first serious use of the camera, when I wanted to see several good tapes all the way through, before capturing them into an edit suite. OK - now problems arose when I used my XL1 in VCR mode to playback all the tapes (hire camera been returned). Situation as follows:

1. Tapes shot with my XL1 playback fine for the first 40-45 mins, then the last 15-20mins, the frames started to 'jump', and this gets progressively worse as the tape winds down, quickly getting unwatchable. The 'jumps' typically have part top of scene on bottom of the viewed picture, but sometimes the bottom on the top, and the general appearance to me is somewhat like an old analogue TV set with the 'vertical hold' out of adjustment. It doesn't matter whether I preview the tapes to my edit monitor via analogue cables, or via DV firewire. In painfully watching a tape all the way to the end, there is even about three brief 'blue screens' of presumably no signal at all. Generally, there is audio breaks associated with the 'jumping. Do the symptome make sense? There is probably a technical term I should be using, but I don't know it, so please understand.

2. Tapes shot with the other hire XL1, upon playback in my camera, are not as bad, but do exhibit the same jumping.

3. I was shocked, and grabbed a tape shot in my XL1 August 2000 and was disappointed to find even it jumped (much more subdued) in the last 15 mins or so. So either my current playback is related to the problem, or (unlikely) the camera has had a problem since day 1?

4. I thought the prestriping and rewind in advance of shooting would make it hard for tape tension on the reels to be an issue? I also briefly ran a Panasonic head cleaner tape but this made no difference to these reported symptoms.

5. I then borrowed a 2nd Mini DV camera (a smaller Canon) and tried to preview via playback of the same three tapes in it. Results were:

a. The May 2004 tape shot in my XL1 camera still displayed audio dropouts, and some jumping (not as bad).

b. The May 2004 tape shot in the hire XL1 now was OK without jumping.

c. The Aug 2000 tape shot with my XL1 now was OK without jumping.

6. At this stage I tentatively conclude my XL1 has some problem that gets worse as the tape spools change, and that affects the recording itself.

7. I loaded up a fresh prestriped tape 2 days ago, and left the camera running all the way through, and confirmed that the tape completes right to the end without any visible jumping or other symptoms. However, if that tape is backwound and then playback in VCR mode, the same thing happens ie. starts jumping with audio problems in the last 20 minutes or so. In this case, if I noted the exact timecode of a 'jump' and then rewound and approached again, it generally jumps, but not at the same timecode positions previously noted - in fact it could be a couple of minutes different. Does this make sense?

8. Fortunately, I had taken out an optional 5yr warranty on the camera when I bought it, but that is small consolation for my footage. I have lodged the camera with the outfit I bought it from, and it goes back to Canon in Sydney on Monday coming. It's funny how all sorts of dark thought pop up - like will I get my own camera back etc - but obviously I've got to have faith in the system, and at this stage I do have.

9. Am I doing the right thing here? Could the XL1 actually have a problem after so little usage? Have you guys any experience of this issue with an XL1?

10. I read a post where it was suggested that the footage should be captured with the same faulty camera, as a playback deck may not be aligned the same, and the camera will come back aligned (or something) differently as well? But in my case this seems futile, as my tests appear to indicate the playback camera is not going to allow a proper capture of the end of the tapes. So I'm guessing my (serviced) camera or a deck should be used to capture, and I 'may' have to accept the end of the tapes (those shot with my camera) are going to be unusable? I hope someone can tell me otherwise!!

Apologies for such a long post in my first contact with your forum. Looking forward to the benefit of wise counsel. Thank you ever so much. regards, Myron.

Make SURE you include a tape that exhibits the problem when you
send your camera to Canon. Include a note that says the problem
starts at the end of the tape etc.

This will allow them to see the problem firsthand.

Other than that I would just wait to see what Canon does. They
will not send you a new camera, but they might replace the whole
tape assembly for example.

If you where not going to send it in I would have proposed trying
a different tape brand (after running a cleaning tape) to see what
that does.

Just wait on Canon's report first!

Hi Rob. Appreciated your quick response.
Yes, I DID include a detailed note, and also my last fresh tape I described in point 7 - and it was stopped toward the end, right where the problem will be immediately visible to Canon.

This doesn't give me a good feeling. I know the camera is quality gear, so maybe I'm just unlucky? I have a sense of humour, so I sure wish I'd had reason to edit up some footage a few months ago, as I'd maybe have discovered something then. Part of the price of currently being a non-professional user, I guess. M.

Anyone else care to comment briefly about what might be causing these symptoms? Surely I'm not so unlucky I got the only XL1 in the world that would do this? Thanks, M.

I'm curious to know if you've always used your camera to input the footage? (I.e. the previous 40 tapes)

I think that might help me diagonis it.

well, my first guess on this would have been dirty heads--- but if it's under warranty and it won't kill you to send it in I'd let them figure it out and fix it.

That reminds me that I should look into extended warranties on my stuff--- one cool thing is that I live about 10 minutes from the Canon service shop in NJ.

I am not a video technician, so take my thoughts for whatever they may be worth. Your "jumping" frames sound symptomatic of some type of alignment problem in the tape transport. I suspect that the tape might not be moving over the head in a stable manner.

Regardless of what I think, this does not sound like an owner-fixable problem. It will require a visit to Canon service. And do be sure to take Rob's suggestion to include a sample tape with the camera when you send the camera to Canon.

Allow my technical side to jump in here for a moment. It sounds from your description and different scenarios that you might have a component, possibly even the tape drive that is getting hot and failing. Why? Because your problems start at the end of a full pass of the tape. In one scenario, you said you backed up the tape after noting where the problem started and it wasn't as bad. You also said it didn't occur in the exact same spot on the timecode which also leads me to believe that this is somehow heat related.

Try this. Position the tape at the spot where you have noted the problem starting. Remove the tape from the camera. Let camera have a couple hours of cooldown time. Then play the tape. If the problem is less prevalent, suspect a heat issue. Also, keep in mind that the tape you shot with the problem may be corrupted during the recording process and will still show problems.

Get a fresh tape, forward the tape to approximately the last 20 minutes of remaining time and record some video after the camera cools off. See if it plays back ok.

That's my .02 worth. Hope this helps you narrow it down.

regards,

Excellent observation, Greg.

But, assuming that Myron has not omitted a small detail such as his hobby of shooting blast furnaces, a trip to Canon service is still in the camera's future.

Hi Nick
Actually (this is a tad embarrassing) my previous 40 tapes were only ever subjected to an occasional few scenes of playback in the camera VTR, and then fully backwound and the cassette tab slid over to make them safe, and then they were progressively placed in a cupboard ready for the day when I was going to get organised with an edit suite! So (unbelievably) this family wedding shoot last month (4 yrs after camera purchase) was the 'first' time I paid detailed attention to the full tapes, and now intended to capture them onto my hdd. Yeah - I know - it's hilarious really - the sort of thing you read about happening to some 'other ' clown! Hoo boy - I've learnt some lessons here. I'm actually a Forestry Scientist in my day job, and have a very strong still camera background, but I'm only now in a position to get serious with video editing and stuff. On another post today I asked about some proper semi-professional decks I'm looking at to keep away from the camera's tape transport.

Hi Greg
That was an interesting analysis about maybe some form of heat failure. Although I live in sunny Queensland, it is autumn here, and my fresh tape (point 7 of original post) was shot in mid morning (mild 19 degrees Celsius) from an indoor position viewing outside, and still gave the problem. That was also the only tape shot that morning. I'm puzzled how that tape showed zero symptoms of anything while it was being shot, yet was similarly faulty on playback toward the end of the tape as described. Actually apologies on one point - where I said in 5b the tape was fine in another camera playback - to be more specific it wasn't 'jumping', but the audio dropouts were still there (the 'stereo' on the other cameras foldout screen was flashing on and off in association with some slight 'white sparklies' on the screen as well). I would have liked to try your diagnosis idea of taking the tape out/cooldown stuff, but the camera is already on it's way to Canon. Maybe better still in case of playback of previously corrupted tape - I could have only recorded the first 45 mins - then done this cooldown stuff, and THEN fresh recorded on from there in that last 15 minute zone where the big problems were.

Hi Kevin and Ken
Yeah, I'll have to see what Canon come up with now. I just hope they call me if they are not happy with the amount of detail in the note supplied a few days ago. Hey Ken - shooting blast furnaces was never one of my hobbies - he he!

Hoping for some more comment, as this is a great learning tool for me. Will keep you all posted on what the final outcome is. M.

I'm also not a technician, But I'm thinking that it is something with the tape drive motor. I was curious about amount of playback because that would tell us exactly how many operation hours are on your heads. Even if you only shot 40 hours of footage and you used the camera to prestripe the footabe that puts you at 80 record hours, then you take into account that the 40 tapes were each probably looked at at least once that would raise it to 120 operation hours, I suspect that when you now try to digitize the tapes and are noticing the skipped frames you are adding another 10 to 20 hours on the heads. which brings you up to say 130 to 140. Now 140 hours over 4 years of real work shouldn't be that bad but if a tape got left in the deck for a while that would pull on the tension springs needed for keeping tape slack correct for record and playback so that once the tape reached a certain length the springs would be fully stretched out and unable to give or receive a signal.

So my guess is that the drop outs will not be there on b camera and on yours they most likely aren't completely lost, how long before prestriping the tape did you actually record an image on it? If the prestriping didn't jump then it porbably happened during the time between the two. I don't know if that helps, but I think the tension springs (or whatever they're called) are what's at fault in this case.

I am also obviously not a technician, but your note made a lot of sense to me. Now that I think about it, as I'm on acreage and haven't been in a real job for the 4 years (I do consulting) I DID get into the bad habit of leaving a tape in the camera so the setup was ready to go next time some wildlife walked past the verandah, when I would grab the camera and take a few minutes or whatever, and then put it away again until next time. Sometimes this might have gone on for weeks (about a year or two ago) with the same tape always in the camera! So you're suggesting/stating that if the tape is left in the camera, it would likely be (constantly?) pulling on the tension springs that keep the tape tensioned correctly? Seems logical that if that was happening, maybe the springs permanently lost tension - which would explain how old tapes (or b camera tapes) replayed today in the XL1 wouldn't playback properly toward the end of the tapes (lost tension) - yet would playback OK in the b camera. Is this correct, or have I misunderstood how the spring tensions work?

You lost me on the prestriping queries, Nick. I prestriped in the XL1 (no image on tape because lens cap on) about 24hours before the actual shoot, which has the 'end of tape' problems only on my camera footage - not on the 2nd hire camera footage, as would be expected. I don't know if the prestriping 'jumped' but if the lack of spring tension toward the end of the tape is the cause, then logically it would have jumped during (unseen) PLAYBACK of the prestriping, but this was never attempted and/or wouldn't be visible anyway without an image at that stage. I say this PLAYBACK because my point 7 of original post used a fresh tape (but leftover unused from the prestriped ones) and in recording on it, it fully completed without any jumping during shooting, yet it DID jump in that last 20 mins on PLAYBACK again - exactly as per the 'wedding' footage I had shot. I don't want to get confused - but would playback of the prestriping effectively be happening as the tape was being recorded the next day, or is the spring tension thing different for playback vs record modes? Is there any possibility that timecode was somehow made out of sync and contributed to playback problems (I don't understand this part).

Does the spring tension theory allow for the audio dropouts apparently present as well? What about the 2 or 3 brief bluescreens I described in point 1 of my original post? Finally, I imagine my (novice) sin of previously leaving the tape in the camera for extended periods was a bad idea for other reasons such as encouraging tape residue on the heads etc? Thanks again for your feedback.

Yeah that prestriping thing was kinda stream of conciousness, so don't worry about it.

You got what I was talking about with spring tension, I've never seen it happen but then again I've never seen half of the problems discussed on these forums.

With the prestriping thing I was trying to figure out how many hours were on the heads, because initially I thought it might be a head cloging thing, then I realized the spring tension thing. I was wondering if there was loss of time code because the spring thing should occur during playback and recording since it's basically just a part of the VTR. The prestriping should have lost timecode as well because it's basically the same part of the tape (regardless of recording or playing back)

I believe the spring tension theory would give you a reason for audio dropouts, and the loss of time code would be the reason you got the bluescreens -I think- Yeah, the usual problem with leaving a tape in is gunking up your heads, (as I've done on occasion) but the worse problem would be the one you experienced. Bottom line you probably still got at least 40 minutes of useable footage from (a cam) and all of (bcam) should be fine. When the camera comes back I suggest maybe using a deck or a smaller cheaper dv camera, like the elura that way you'll only have to worry about tension from recording the image on to tape, and in a way it's king of good that things happened when they did instead of say in a year when your 5 year warrenty might have expired.

Hey when the camera comes back let me know if they tell you what was wrong.

wow my first post.

i'm actually having the same problem although mine is slightly worse. any footage i record with my XL1 jumps when trying to import it via firewire. a non xl1 shot tape imports fine with the xl1 so i don't think its the firewire. the frames get very jumpy and i get these weird blocks of gray and blue and red randomly on the monitor.

it's extremely annoying since i just picked it up. i have run a head cleaner through there so that shouldn't be the case.

Congrats on your first post! Maybe you cuold go into a little more detail aboutt he problem you're having? Are your importing problems occuring thru the whole tape? Are the XL1 tapes and the non XL1 tapes made by the same manufactuer. How many tapes have this problem?

ok the way it goes:

every tape i record on via XL1 be it sony tapes or panasonic MQ tapes i get what i believe canon calls "mosaic noise". it's not the computer or the firewire cable because my 1 chip sony doesn't do it. nor do any other tape brands operate that way in the sony. i've run a head cleaner through and i still have the problem. the best way to describe the mosaic noise is sparadic (spelling?) flashes of gray boxes/rectangles.

on average how much does it cost to send something in to canon to have it fixed. they've suggested it might be the recording heads. HELP???

Sorry to hear of your trouble, Chris. I've no idea what the "average" cost would be. It would depend on whether or not your camera is still under warranty.

We have many threads of correspondence in this section of the forum concerning repairs and service. Do a Search on "drum" or "repair" and you'll turn up pages. Here's a relatively recent thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5812) that might give you some tips on what to expect.

Good luck.

Myron,

Just to be clear. When I was speaking of heat related component failure, I wasn't talking about the environment that the camera was in. What I was referring to was a weak component such as IC, transistor, resistor, capacitor, etc. that alters its value when operating in its own ambient heat up that occurs in all electronic equipment(ever notice your cell phone warming up after you talk for a long time). There are small spray cans of 'freeze it' spray that are used for diagnosing these problems. On the other side of the coin, there can be problems with components that don't work when they are cold. We use a soldering iron to apply heat for finding these problems. Anyway, I hope Canon will fix it for you.

Also, what you said about not seeing any problems while the footage was recorded is due to the fact that your viewfinder is not showing what just got recorded. It is showing what the lens is seeing at that point in time.


regards,

Hi Greg
Actually, even though I mentioned it was Autumn here and the camera wasn't doing much work when it still gave trouble, I wasn't being flippant - I had understood your post was talking about a camera component heat failure. I've re-read your posts, and I detect that you are probably in the camera technician area. I'd love to ask you a few more questions, but meanwhile I understand your suggestion that some form of heat component failure is a serious possibility for the problems I have experienced. Frankly, I'm a tad concerned now that I didn't mention the variation in 'jump' timecode position in my handwritten note to accompany the XL1 to Canon. Due to my inexperience, I felt it was unwise to potentially bore them with every little 'symptom', like as if I'm the only bloke that ever had a camera malfunction. I just hope they are thorough in their consideration of the possibilities, given that I included a sample tape with the problem.

I shall certainly keep you informed of the response I get from Canon. I am hoping that will only take them 2 or 3 weeks. M.

Myron,
One other question. Did you send you camera in for yearly maintenance?

Nathan
Unfortunately I was unaware that I should send it in for regular annual maintenance, given that it was quality gear and not receiving a lot of use. Can you clarify if annual maintenance would be a normal part of a warranty - I was thinking a warranty is for when something goes wrong? Then again in hindsight, obviously annual maintenance performed correctly would almost certainly head off some developing issues. I'm not the sort of bloke that would seek someome else to blame. Without pre-empting what Canon may find - I take responsibility for (in hindsight) potentially unwise activities like leaving tapes in the camera etc. However, in fairness, I also react to good advice, and on rechecking the manual it is pretty brief in these areas. I see on p13 of the manual it says not to leave cassettes in the camera after use. After I bought the gear, I had handwritten beside that ' Is this only for a storage situation? Presume OK for a week or two with unpredictable shooting?'. What about if you own a quality deck (or other equipment) are you supposed to send it back in for regular annual maintenance? Would really like to hear what you think should be normal procedure for anyone owning quality camcorder equipment. Maybe you can reference me a good article on a website somewhere? Thanks, M.

Hi Myron,
With a bit of luck your playback fault may be just that - playback only and not a record fault. If not a component fault as Greg suggests, It sounds to me (not a tech. but a pro user) like a mechanical fault. Although considered pro gear, the transport mechanism is very fragile and prone to misalignment, causing all kinds of errors on playback. Shock from bumpy roads (Qld rainforest tracks?) would need to be avoided.
My XL1s needed a whole new transport after a trip to Japan, but I blame myself for not taking it onboard as cabin luggage. You Idiot! Never again

So my advice here (learnt the hard way) is buy yourself a good bag to keep it safe. I recommend Portabrace, but have a look at B&H Photovideo on the 'net. That's where I got mine, and I'm in Australia too.

With the light duty yours has had, it is possible the fault was present from new.

You won't see record faults as they happen generally, as the viewfinder is showing you the signal before it gets put on tape. Thankfully, really dirty heads will cause an error message though, so keep a head cleaning tape with you always.

Finally, on your mention of decks for playback use, I use a Sony DSR11 DVCAM unit but I have had problems with playback compatibility, simply because the minute tolerances DV uses for tracking, so I often have to recapture a shot using the XL1 as the Sony won't play it.
I guess that's why DVCAM uses a wider track pitch or whatever for cross-compatibility, at the expense of tape duration.
Among the benefits of a DSR or similar is the ability to master jobs of up to 4+ hours, frame accurate export to tape, ability to record in DVCAM or DV format, and as a backup unit, connected to the firewire output of the camera.

When capturing, the best way to save wear and tear on your machine is to use clever software that scans and captures in one pass.

I hope I haven't bored anyone to sleep.


Mark

No, I would not expect alignments as part of the warranty. Even when you warrant a car you still have routine maintenance to perform.

Hi Mark

I've been away for a couple of days, and just wanted to acknowledge your post. At this stage, it seems best to wait for Canon's response about my camera problems. However, on the other points you mentioned:
1. The case idea. Yeah, just after I got the XL1 I went out to the desert and Lake Eyre, the Gulf etc but the camera spent the whole time 'accessable' on the back seat of the Patrol, so no damage issues there. I actually bought a Pelican hard case for it, but took it around unused as I didn't want to have the extra time step for grab shots of bustards etc as they presented. I've got used to it now from this thread, but I'm still basically amazed the XL1 transport mechanism is apparently so fragile. I mean, many people I know have their cheap miniDV cameras, and they sure as hell don't fuss over them any more than I do with the XL1, yet I'm not seeing them having fragile tape transport issues.
2. On the head cleaning tape, I have a Panasonic AY-DVMCLA 'dry type' cleaner. I'm a bit gunshy on using it, as I've read so much about possible cleaner damage to the heads. I guess it's more a case of having it in the kit,and then using it when you have to. Again, as the viewfinder shows me what is going through the lens, I presume I will only see the dirty heads blockiness etc on playback. Isn't that too late, given my critical scene has then already been shot, only to decide the heads were dirty? I presume dirty heads affects the record AND the playback? Sorry if this is a dumb question!
2. Clever software that scans and captures in one pass. I've just obtained ScenalyzerLive that seems to be what's needed there. Any experience with it yourself?
3. This clever capture software means the camera transport is not hunting around, so it would seem full tapes can be dropped on the HDD (cheap now) and then bring it into the NLE from there. This suggests maybe managing without a proper deck like the DSR11 or the Panasonic AGDV2500 I am interested in. My gut feeling is that despite the cost of these decks AND the smart capture software, it would probably still be a reasonable idea to get one for general use - and you mentioned the advantages including ability to archive miniDV tape onto the bigger tape format they take. What's your experience? I'm sort of thinking that with the 'coming' of prosumer HD the deck won't be useful one day? Then again, realistically there must be an ongoing use for std def for many years yet? Cheers, Myron.

When I said the mechanism is fragile I didn't mean to imply that the XL1 is more so compared to other mini dv units, I mean mini-dv generally, compared to larger ENG formats. Take a look at how thin the metal in the transport is and how tiny the moving parts are.
But like you said, no need to treat your camera any different from a "cheap miniDV camera". I also have a cheap Sony handicam DV that I have used professionally in places I considered too risky for taking my XL1, not because I thought it was fragile, but because it is worth much more, not just in actual cost but because it's my means of making a living. One location was inside a coal bunker with fine dust everywhere.

I don't think you need to worry too much about the head cleaner as long as you follow the directions.

You will only see dropouts on playback, where they may be only playback dropouts, or they may have been recorded that way. If you wind back and play the glitch portion again and the dropout is exactly the same frame, amount of pixillation, and area of the screen, it is more likely to be a record error , ie dirt on the record heads. If the glitch plays back differently in some way or not at all, it sounds like a playback error. Clean the heads and try again.

If when shooting, the heads get really dirty the camera will tell you in the viewfinder to clean the heads, but there's always that worry in your mind that everything is working perfectly. The more important the shoot, the more the worry, and in my experience, the more likely something will stuff up!

I haven't had any hands on with scenalyzer but if it stops your camera/deck from having to spool around and preroll for every shot it could well save you the need of a feeder deck. Whether or not you need one is up to you. If you can give it plenty of work to do to justify the expense or you need the extra duration of large DV tapes . . . then again you might just WANT one. ; )

Mark

I haven't used Scenalyzer either, but I have not heard any complaints about it, especially for the price. One of the big reasons to use Scenalyzer is for 4-track support since not all NLEs will do this.

Yes, I also agree that Canon's miniDV drive is not more fragile than other miniDVs. However, the camera has more heft and in a fall...well who knows?

Another option for you would be either a Firestore or Quickstore disk transfer system. Using those critters speeds your clip logging and makes your miniDV only a redundant tape drive. I am assuming you can use 4-track with it, but I don't have that answer.

Okay - for all those that were interested in my problem - here's the news from Canon.

I received my XL1 back a couple of weeks ago from Canon Australia (sorry I've been too busy to post). Remember this went through a local dealer's warranty repair service division, who sent it direct to Canon.

1. The reported fault typed on my dealers jobsheet upon despatch was:
When played in VCR mode tape jumps for last 20 minutes - gets worse the more you play. Please refer to attached sheet. (This sheet was my bigger handwritten explanation, and I also included a faulty tape paused at the point where problem was obvious. Refer to this thread for full details of what was experienced, and also a lot of useful comments from you guys).

2. The service details (from Canon) now typed on my dealer jobsheet given to me was:

' Unit was sent to authorised warranty repair agent. They carried out the following: Disassembled unit, Supplied and fitted main PCB assembly, cleaned and calibrated as required, reassembled unit, checked and tested operation all Ok'.

3. As this was an extended warranty repair, it was no charge to me. However, I noticed that it cost A$982 for the job as covered under the warranty. I recall my original 5 year extended warranty was A$500 at the time.

4. It works fine now - I've used a full 60 minute tape with no problems on playback right to the end.

5. I've rechecked my previous faulty family wedding footage (shot with this camera) and the last 20 minutes or so still jumps on playback. I kinda expected this, and believe that footage is permanently lost? The damage seen upon playback must have been happening during record.

6. I feel a bit 'remote from the process' so far as Canon's repair was concerned, but that is how the system evidently works. I mean I would have liked to have had a detailed yarn with some informed person about some of the suggestions you guys made. This would have been good for my education. For example, I mentioned to a dealer technician (not Canon) when I was collecting the XL1 about the possibility of spring tension loss if a tape was left in the camera too long, (I think it was Nick's idea) and the techie claimed no springs are under tension unless the camera is actually working in record or playback. I wish I knew more about the facts on this type of thing. At the moment, I assume a replaced printed circuit board PCB may mean Gregs component heat breakdown suggestion is close on the money?

7. If anyone can drag themselves away from the XL2 thread, I would appreciate your views in hindsight. Does it still look like I was just unlucky etc? This won't change anything, but I'll probably feel better, if you know what I mean!

kind regards to all. Myron.

Yeah, just unlucky. Something decided to break (or was broke from new) and your footage was the victim.

But also lucky. Lucky you bought the extended warranty!
Good luck with it in the future.

Cheers

Mark

Myron, Sounds like greg was right (he wins the prize!) check your inbox

nick

Hello,

Hate to resurrect the dead, but I am having a problem that I believe may be at the heart of some of the problems other Canon users are having.

I see this on my Canon XL1, and on my Brand New Canon XL2!

Now my concern about sending cameras out for repair, is that many times the technicians have more important things on their minds (non-business related) to even read your detailed reports. They just throw it on the test bench and read the numbers. That is just sad, but being in the technology business for over 25 years, I know this happens.

I sent my Canon XL1 in for periodic maintenance and I mentioned several things that I wanted specifically checked, and after speaking with several people from tech support (Never anyone that actually worked on my camera by the way... they wouldn't let me speak to any specific technician), it became evident that my detailed explanation was being used as a coaster. The letter that came back with my unit made no mention of my concerns at all, it just stated that they cleaned the heads and that everything was within spec.

My playback problem and other minor concerns were still present :-(

And this problem still exists intermittently even after 4 or 5 visits to Canon.


--- My problem ---

* upon playback on my cheap feeder decks I get all kinds of problems ranging from video drop-out to audio distortion and cut-out.

* At times my XL2 gives me some drop-out while playing my XL1 tapes.

* At times my XL1 gives me some drop-out while playing my XL1 tapes.

* At times my XL1 and XL2 give me some drop-out while playing my XL1 and/or XL2 tapes.


--- My Observation ---

* I have noticed certain activity that is usually present when I am experiencing playback issues, and it might be related to what many of you have described here, and if not, please look to see if this is true with your systems as well.

This also occurs on tapes that will not playback correctly on my feeder decks, but appear to playback fine on my Canon Cameras. Although the footage looks good, this Timecode Irregularity is present.

-- Timecode Irregularity ---

While watching the timecode display upon playback I notice (not always, but when difficulties are present) that the timecode will play along smoothly, and then pause... it then starts playing smoothly again but starts at several frames ahead of where it left off. This is probably because although the timecode stopped /froze in its display, the tape kept playing and when the timecode came out of its deep freeze, it picked up the frame that it was on. This happens every 5 to 40 frames and is not obviously consistent where I can determine any rational.


--- My Sad Conclusion ---

Canon may be right, the heads might readout aligned on their equipment, I think Canon has a more deeply rooted problem. I hear this from many owners that have sworn off of Canon and stick with Sony or Panasonic.

This is upsetting as I purchased this new XL2 as a backup to my XL1 that I thought might have a problem that eluded Canons technical team. I am about to shoot an important job, and due to my XL2 purchase, can not go out and by a different camera :-(

Besides, I like the XLs, I can get some really great images with my tested lighting techniques. It would take a much more expensive camera for me to get the same results (although my lighting would be much easier).

So I wish that Canon might explore this issue and come up with a solution. I know that many users may never experience the problems that some of us are having, but there are enough of us to warrant the extra effort and thereby making Canon a Super Value among all of the competition!

I am now conducting Tape Tests, but I know a lot of pros that use cheap tape for their non-critical work, and they never experience problems on their gear... why should our Canon cameras be any different??

Please comment...

Thank You :-)
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