Frank Haugland
June 20th, 2004, 06:54 AM
I wish to edit HD10u footage using DVI/HDMI only. With my current setup, the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro Mac G5 edition transmits to a HiDef front projection in the RGB color space. I am concerned about color space truncation vs. preservation of high def color and not just preservation of HiDef resolution. I am concerned about color distortion caused by color space transformation.
The HiDef HDMI color spaces are:
A. RGB 4:4:4
B. YCBCR 4:4:4
C: YCBCR 4:2:2.
What I need to know are as follows:
1. In LumiereHD decoding, which HiDef color space is the data decoded into?
2. If the answer to #1 depends on the codec, which color space is "uncompressed".
3. What are the uncompressed data rates for 1280x720P @ 30 fps for:
A. RGB 4:4:4
B. YCBCR 4:4:4
C: YCBCR 4:2:2.
4. Which color space does FCP use "internally"?
5. When exporting the final edit to a QuickTime Pro movie, which color space is used?
6. Which Mac graphics cards support YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2 at 1280x720P @ 30 fps with output via DVI?
7. What color space does WMV9 encode into?
8. I understand there is a Mac HiDef format demonstration DVD like WMV9. Which color space did that use use?
Most important:
1. Which color space should I use to edit in?
2. Are there any Mac Graphics cards which support YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2 at 1280x720P @ 30 fps with output via DVI?
Rationale:
Just as HiDef is the future, HDMI is the future for cable, satellite, and the next generation high capacity blue laser "DVD players". The Epson is a fine "end-user" HiDef playback device. I want to make final editing decisions re: color correction and filtering using a DVI/HDMI interface to the Epson and not analog component video; the latter causes an unnecessary extra D/A-A/D conversion and is not how most content will be played back in the future. Most content will be played back via DVI/HDMI.
My setup:
1. PowerMac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 2.5 GB RAM, Final Cut Pro HD/LumiereHD, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro Mac G5 edition graphics card (one ADC out for a 19" Mac flat panel {1280x1024} and one DVI out for the Epson). 23 foot DVI cable. DVI/HDMI adaptor. 6 foot HDMI cable. Optional Geffen 4 channel DVI switcher. Epson Powerlite Cinema 500 front projection DLP.
Excerpts from the HDMI spec:
See http://www.hdmi.com
Video data is carried as a series of 24-bit pixels on the three TMDS data channels. TMDS
encoding converts the 8 bits per channel into the 10 bit DC-balanced, transition minimized
sequence which is then transmitted serially across the pair at a rate of 10 bits per pixel clock
period.
Video pixel rates can range from 25MHz to 165MHz. Video formats with rates below 25MHz (e.g.
13.5MHz for 480i/NTSC) can be transmitted using a pixel-repetition scheme. The video pixels can
be encoded in either RGB, YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2 formats. In all three cases, up to 24 bits
per pixel can be transferred.
HDMI allows a wide variety of explicitly defined video format timings to be transmitted and
displayed. These video format timings define the pixel and line counts and timing, synchronization
pulse position and duration, and whether the format is interlaced or progressive.
The video pixels carried across the link shall be in one of three different pixel encodings: RGB
4:4:4, YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2.
The HDMI Source determines the pixel encoding and video format of the transmitted signal based
on the characteristics of the source video, the format and pixel encoding conversions possible at
the Source, and the format and pixel encoding capabilities and preferences of the Sink.
An HDMI Source that is capable of transmitting any of the following video format timings
using any other component analog or uncompressed digital video output, shall be capable of
transmitting that video format timing across the HDMI interface.
1280x720p @ 59.94/60Hz
1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz
720x480p @ 59.94/60Hz
1280x720p @ 50Hz
1920x1080i @ 50Hz
720x576p @ 50Hz
An HDMI Sink that is capable of receiving any of the following video format timings using any
other component analog or uncompressed digital video input, shall be capable of receiving
that format across the HDMI interface.
1280x720p @ 59.94/60Hz
1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz
1280x720p @ 50Hz
1920x1080i @ 50Hz
6.2.3 Pixel Encoding Requirements
Only pixel encodings of RGB 4:4:4, YCBCR 4:2:2, and YCBCR 4:4:4 (as specified in Section 6.5)
may be used on HDMI.
All HDMI Sources and Sinks shall be capable of supporting RGB 4:4:4 pixel encoding.
All HDMI Sources shall support either YCBCR 4:2:2 or YCBCR 4:4:4 pixel encoding whenever that
device is capable of transmitting a color-difference color space across any other component
analog or digital video interface.
All HDMI Sinks shall be capable of supporting both YCBCR 4:4:4 and YCBCR 4:2:2 pixel encoding
when that device is capable of supporting a color-difference color space from any other
component analog or digital video input.
If an HDMI Sink supports either YCBCR 4:2:2 or YCBCR 4:4:4 then both shall be supported.
An HDMI Source may determine the pixel-encodings that are supported by the Sink through the
use of the E-EDID. If the Sink indicates that it supports YCBCR-formatted video data and if the
Source can deliver YCBCR data, then it can enable the transfer of this data across the link.
Thanks in advance,
Frank
The HiDef HDMI color spaces are:
A. RGB 4:4:4
B. YCBCR 4:4:4
C: YCBCR 4:2:2.
What I need to know are as follows:
1. In LumiereHD decoding, which HiDef color space is the data decoded into?
2. If the answer to #1 depends on the codec, which color space is "uncompressed".
3. What are the uncompressed data rates for 1280x720P @ 30 fps for:
A. RGB 4:4:4
B. YCBCR 4:4:4
C: YCBCR 4:2:2.
4. Which color space does FCP use "internally"?
5. When exporting the final edit to a QuickTime Pro movie, which color space is used?
6. Which Mac graphics cards support YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2 at 1280x720P @ 30 fps with output via DVI?
7. What color space does WMV9 encode into?
8. I understand there is a Mac HiDef format demonstration DVD like WMV9. Which color space did that use use?
Most important:
1. Which color space should I use to edit in?
2. Are there any Mac Graphics cards which support YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2 at 1280x720P @ 30 fps with output via DVI?
Rationale:
Just as HiDef is the future, HDMI is the future for cable, satellite, and the next generation high capacity blue laser "DVD players". The Epson is a fine "end-user" HiDef playback device. I want to make final editing decisions re: color correction and filtering using a DVI/HDMI interface to the Epson and not analog component video; the latter causes an unnecessary extra D/A-A/D conversion and is not how most content will be played back in the future. Most content will be played back via DVI/HDMI.
My setup:
1. PowerMac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 2.5 GB RAM, Final Cut Pro HD/LumiereHD, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro Mac G5 edition graphics card (one ADC out for a 19" Mac flat panel {1280x1024} and one DVI out for the Epson). 23 foot DVI cable. DVI/HDMI adaptor. 6 foot HDMI cable. Optional Geffen 4 channel DVI switcher. Epson Powerlite Cinema 500 front projection DLP.
Excerpts from the HDMI spec:
See http://www.hdmi.com
Video data is carried as a series of 24-bit pixels on the three TMDS data channels. TMDS
encoding converts the 8 bits per channel into the 10 bit DC-balanced, transition minimized
sequence which is then transmitted serially across the pair at a rate of 10 bits per pixel clock
period.
Video pixel rates can range from 25MHz to 165MHz. Video formats with rates below 25MHz (e.g.
13.5MHz for 480i/NTSC) can be transmitted using a pixel-repetition scheme. The video pixels can
be encoded in either RGB, YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2 formats. In all three cases, up to 24 bits
per pixel can be transferred.
HDMI allows a wide variety of explicitly defined video format timings to be transmitted and
displayed. These video format timings define the pixel and line counts and timing, synchronization
pulse position and duration, and whether the format is interlaced or progressive.
The video pixels carried across the link shall be in one of three different pixel encodings: RGB
4:4:4, YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2.
The HDMI Source determines the pixel encoding and video format of the transmitted signal based
on the characteristics of the source video, the format and pixel encoding conversions possible at
the Source, and the format and pixel encoding capabilities and preferences of the Sink.
An HDMI Source that is capable of transmitting any of the following video format timings
using any other component analog or uncompressed digital video output, shall be capable of
transmitting that video format timing across the HDMI interface.
1280x720p @ 59.94/60Hz
1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz
720x480p @ 59.94/60Hz
1280x720p @ 50Hz
1920x1080i @ 50Hz
720x576p @ 50Hz
An HDMI Sink that is capable of receiving any of the following video format timings using any
other component analog or uncompressed digital video input, shall be capable of receiving
that format across the HDMI interface.
1280x720p @ 59.94/60Hz
1920x1080i @ 59.94/60Hz
1280x720p @ 50Hz
1920x1080i @ 50Hz
6.2.3 Pixel Encoding Requirements
Only pixel encodings of RGB 4:4:4, YCBCR 4:2:2, and YCBCR 4:4:4 (as specified in Section 6.5)
may be used on HDMI.
All HDMI Sources and Sinks shall be capable of supporting RGB 4:4:4 pixel encoding.
All HDMI Sources shall support either YCBCR 4:2:2 or YCBCR 4:4:4 pixel encoding whenever that
device is capable of transmitting a color-difference color space across any other component
analog or digital video interface.
All HDMI Sinks shall be capable of supporting both YCBCR 4:4:4 and YCBCR 4:2:2 pixel encoding
when that device is capable of supporting a color-difference color space from any other
component analog or digital video input.
If an HDMI Sink supports either YCBCR 4:2:2 or YCBCR 4:4:4 then both shall be supported.
An HDMI Source may determine the pixel-encodings that are supported by the Sink through the
use of the E-EDID. If the Sink indicates that it supports YCBCR-formatted video data and if the
Source can deliver YCBCR data, then it can enable the transfer of this data across the link.
Thanks in advance,
Frank