Exactly, Tommy. The two fields recorded in frame mode are recorded at the same time. There is no temporal difference to compensate for, and no interfield motion blur. When you bring the video into an editing package and tell the software that the video is progressive, it combines the fields without any alteration or need for running a deinterlace.

Guy, I guess I didn't make my point before. The camcorder doesn't record the two fields at the same time in NTSC or PAL DV. They are recorded as separate interlaced fields and output in the same way. So any NLE system that needs to have a deinterlaced signal, will have to deinterlace them after it comes from the camcorder. It can't be done in the camcorder.

Steve McDonald

I thought frame mode was taking one field and doubling it to two fields, thus loising half your resolution before it got to the pc/nle.

Unlike progressive, which uses the entire vertical resolution (480) and divides it into two fields . Thus making it easy to recombine back into progressive without resolution loss, a true 720x480 frame vs two 720x240 slightly different fields.

So while both are stored as interlaced on tape, the true progressive chip acts more like a film to video transfer in laymans terms. Thats one of the reasons the DVX100 material uprezs so well.

Thats also why I bought the mx500 over the dv953, at least I get more in frame mode and a true 16x9 that uses more of the chip instead of cropping like the dv953.

And if thats what is really happening in the GS400, well, then, I'm not interested. Not that the camera is bad, just not worth trading in my MX500, even if it has better low light and better whiz bang features. If the GS400 had/has true progressive, it could be the number 1 Guerilla cam on the market. Making it an excellent second camera for the DVX. Oh well, sigh.....

With Canon shooting itself in the foot with the XL2 (IMHO), I'll probably be looking at the DVX100a very soon. Haven't decided whether or not to get PAL or NTSC. I have no desire to do live types of broadcast, so compatibility with NTSC interlaced is of no concern.
(Just to save people posting reasons why not to get PAL).

Please see this thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20029&highlight=steve+mullen) about progressive vs. frame mode.

The GS400 has frame mode, not progressive scan CCDs; and this frame mode is different than Canon's frame mode. Pana claims resolution is increased, especially in the vertical. Also, frame mode first appeared in Panasonics, and not in Canons. With progessive scan, it may have been with the JVC GR-DVL9000 or perhaps one of Canon's 1-chip cams prior to the original Optura. Not sure.

OK - it's a slight setback without 30p but will this camera still outperform the PDX10 ?

OK - it's a slight setback without 30p but will this camera still outperform the PDX10 ?

Good question. The GS400 obviously lacks the PDX10's XLR inputs and DVCAM capability but then the GS400 touts its cine-like gamma and frame mode not found on the PDX10. Both have high quality 16:9 but I think the deal breaker for some will be price. There is over a $600 difference between an imported Japanese GS400 compared to a PDX10 from B&H. I'm not sure what the street price of the N.A. GS400 will be but if it follows the DV953 then it will be below $1300 in a few months from reputable online sellers.

Really, that is the bottom line isn't it !Throw in a couple of hundred more and one could get a gs400 and optura 500. Although the pdx10 is beautiful and the replacement for my pd100a , the dvcam and xlr inputs are minimal improvements . In fact , I've come to think the dvcam part is a downside since you have to spend more money on tape and it's the exact same image quality. I guess the next step is to wait for real world reviews. thanks

<<<-- Originally posted by Kurth Bousman : In fact , I've come to think the dvcam part is a downside since you have to spend more money on tape -->>>

To to clarify, you can still shoot in DV SP on the PDX-10 which is what I do most of the time. I thought I read somewhere that the PD-100a could only shoot in DVCAM mode. Is that true?

Another slight advantage to the PDX-10, although certainly no deal breaker, is the hi-res black and white viewfinder. And of course.... it's black :-)

And of course.... it's black :-)

So is the Japanese GS400.. :)

Click here (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-12/74415/pana8.jpg)

For those who like Japanese menus and dislike warranties?... ;-)

Reviews are in the works and will be up next week.

Boyd, what lighting levels did you use for your resolution charts on the PDX10 and VX2000?

I didn't take any readings with a light meter. The chart was illuminated by a total of four 100 watt screw-base frosted household halogen light bulbs in household light fixtures (3 of them were in one of those cheap "pole lamps" and the other was in a desk lamp). The lamps were about four feet away from the chart.

I think you should have an idea of the light levels by looking at the exposure data that was published on my site. The VX-2000 was at f6.8, 1/60 sec, 0dB gain. The PDX-10 was at f2.8, 1/60 sec, 0dB gain.

Boyd-
You're absolutely right about the viewfinder- I momentarily overlooked it and that is probably the most important improvement- Yes it's true - the pd100a only shoots in dvcam. I hope the gs400 will have slightly better low light abilities than the pdx10 and the fact that it's silver actually, for me living in Mexico , is an advantage. Here , you always want to keep a low profile with equipment. Most of the tv stations here use either dsr-200's. 250's, or xl1's , and the shooters always have their bodyguards ( or equipment guards ! ) For still , I use a dig rebel ( which is silver ) , which also is low profile and doesn't attract much attention . Here it's guerrillas all the way down. I look forward to Guys' review. thanks

For still , I use a dig rebel ( which is silver )

Why is it that Japan always gets a choice between silver and black?

I just saw today that they have a black Digital Rebel (Kiss/300D).

http://www.kakaku.com/images/productimage/fullscale/00500210636.jpg

Thanks, Boyd. I saw the exposure specs but was curious about the lighting. I had some similar shots for the DV953 on my website.

Kurth, DVSpot and Camcorderinfo will have reviews out next week on the GS400. I can only hope to get my hands on one.

Guy- reviews at camcorderinfo.com - well, I was hoping for a review from someone who knew something about video ! Tommy- It's a simple answer- when you're cooking for your own table , you always put in the best ingredients !

Guy- reviews at camcorderinfo.com - well, I was hoping for a review from someone who knew something about video ! Well, Tommy should be getting his any day now. I'm sure he will give us lots of good information.

Well, Tommy should be getting his any day now.

You know, I just sold the GS100 and my Canon 10D cam to invest heavily into video and of course my thoughts have wandered to the DVX100A and PD170 but I keep coming back to the GS400.

Guy, if you were in the market for a new cam, what would you get?

I literally have a headache from this decision!

Interesting question! I have been pondering that since the GS400 was announced. I originally selected the DV953 over the GL2, TRV950 and VX2000 due to the considerable difference in price versus the marginal technical advantages of the more expensive cams (low light excepted). I don't shoot commercial or I would have gotten a VX2000. I know you do some commercial work, but believe you have access to a VX2000.

I like the smaller cams, but most pocket cams don't have the color quality of the larger 3 CCD cams or high quality widescreen. I have been seeing some video from the Canon 30/40/400 that looks pretty good, though, both 4:3 and 16:9. Something about the size of the 953 or GS100 would be nice if it had excellent widescreen. So, I'm going to have to see if the improvements in the GS400 or the HC1000 over 953 are significant enough to warrant an upgrade. If the DVC30 had HQ widescreen, the 953 would be gone in an instant.

Well, maybe not the HC1000...

Yes, Guy, that review of the Sony does kind of kill one's appetite - especially with the $1700 msrp. No wonder Allan said sales in Japan were rumored not to be going well, either.

And the HC-1000 has a smaller battery than the PDX-10/TRV-950 plus exposure is controlled by touch screen menus... ugh. It does appear to have the PDX-10's high quality widescreen mode and black color however...

<<<-- Originally posted by Tommy Haupfear : You know, I just sold the GS100 and my Canon 10D cam to invest heavily into video and of course my thoughts have wandered to the DVX100A and PD170 but I keep coming back to the GS400.

Since you have the budget and willing to use it, don't seem to mind carrying bigger cams, not to mention exceptionally good at recovering your cost everytime you sell your gear, why don't you try to get DVX100A and tell us more about it :-)). The DVX100A does have a good widescreen right?

If I were in the market for a new cam, it's gonna be either the GS400 or the HC1000 because that's the maximum I can afford, despite my willingness to carry heavier cams :-).

<<<-- Originally posted by Patricia Kim : especially with the $1700 msrp. -->>>

You'd hope that actual street prices would be lower than that, with the PDX-10 selling for $1850 it sure wouldn't make sense to spend $1700 on the HC-1000.

AFAIK, the DVX100A doesn't have HQ widescreen, although it apparently does offer anamorphic widescreen which the original model didn't. However, I have seen posts where folks were quite pleased with the old letterboxed image that was cropped and blown up to HD dimensions. So, I guess YMMV.

I'm still waiting on the perfect cam...F/1.2 30X optical lens with OIS, 500grams with battery, 52Gig SD card, 1920x1080 no compression progressive scan video, wireless video transfer, wireless direct to eye viewfinder, wireless direct to ear audio, mental control, 5.1 surround, and it has to be BLACK!

<<<-- Originally posted by Patricia Kim : Yes, Guy, that review of the Sony does kind of kill one's appetite -

I just read Robin's first impression review. Unless there's something totally wrong with my memory, I remember that I was able to set the shutter speed of the HC1000 manually from 1/4 - 1/10000. And if I'm not mistaken, low shutter settings (1/4, 1/8, 1/15 and 1/30) are available under video mode - those low shutter settings are not under digital effect...and those low light settings under video mode are not available with the GS400.

I'd better play with the HC1000 again to verify. I could be dreaming :-))


Guy, I'd be uploading new samples of the GS400 and the HC1000, if that's ok. The new samples are better comparisons IMO because the scenes are almost identical.

Well, maybe NA got a stripped version again!:)

Maybe Robin simply read the spec sheets :-) and assumed that the HC1000 shutter speed setting behaves similar to Sony's other cams - you know, that Program AE controlled shutter speed, combined with slow shutter settings under digital effect. Let me verify first, but I do remember playing with and appreciating those low shutter speed settings of the HC1000 and thought 1/15 appeared very controllable.

The only thing missing in the HC1000 is the cool looking square hood of the TRV950, though it has a cute little circular hood.

The fact that the HC1000 can be had for $1,000 in Japan is affecting my impressions of this cam of course. :-))...and btw, based on the samples I have seen so far, it appears to be better than GS100 in low-light, although the default sharpness setting seems to be softer than that of GS400.

Sure, Allan, put them up...and some Optura 30 clips if you have them.

I think Robin was considerably unimpressed with the ergonomics of the HC1000 that she probably didn't look too much at the exposure technology. There will be a more thorough review when they can get a cam to test.

From what I've read they've removed the physical multi-function wheel found on the TRV-950/PDX-10 and put all the functions into touch screen menus. I would find that totally unacceptable. It means digging through menus to control everything, very awkward for working in manual mode. I suppose that if you use the auto modes it would be less of an issue though.

Also it's a big disappointment that they LCD and viewfinder are lower resolution, and that the touch screen has gotten physically smaller at they same as they move more functions to it.

The inability to use the larger QM91 batteries is also a downer, you will need to carry twice as many batteries with you. But a $1,000 price tag would indeed offset some of these complaints. Wonder what the US price will be? B&H isn't listing it yet. Interesting though, they still list the TRV-950 for $1,650 which isn't much of a deal compared to $1,850 for the PDX-10. I actually thought the price was lower on the TRV-950, maybe they've raised it?.... it has a banner next to it proclaiming "Top Seller!". They're offering a pretty unexciting rebate from Sony, save $50 if you also buy a photo printer....

Ok, new samples have been uploaded to Guy's site both in the GS400 and HC1000 albums.

For those combined GS400&HC1000 videos, the first parts are taken using the GS400.

I have also uploaded combined GS400&PC350 samples (procinema/cinematic and widescreen interlaced). Again the first parts are taken using the GS400.

All these samples came from a Jap magazine.

Thanks again, Allan!

LOL, lots of interest in these shots...my site may exceed its bandwidth before I can get some more. Viewing has already exceeded 38 Gig this month. Folks can help out by only viewing each clip once or by downloading the clip and viewing it off line. To download, right click on the link above the player window that says "It may take awhile to load the movie" and SAVE AS...

Folks, please help out. We don't want Guy's site to go offline especially next month. I may be able to upload progresive/frame-mode/procinema galore after August 20 :-)). I'll upload in zip next time.

Allan,
Uploading in ZIP won't fix it because the server unpacks the ZIP file into the album. I can set up files for download in zip format. It won't make much difference on the bandwidth except it might deter folks from viewing the clips multiple times. You'll have to send me the files some other way...maybe FTP. The downside of this method is the size of the ZIP file and the download time.

Great clips Allan, thanks! The GS400 procinema mode is impressive. If that's frame mode, I don't see much loss in resolution.

Regrading the two GS400&HC1000-Road clips, you can see some noticable sharpness differences between the GS400 and HC1000. The GS400 looks sharper in the center grass strip in the road and if you look at the trees at the far end of the road, the GS400 show much more detail.

Here's another test idea to properly evaluate skin tones. It would be nice to see close ups of that model in a bikini :-)

Yeah Rokta, I agree with you on the difference in sharpness. In fairness to the HC1000, and I hope it's noticeable enough in the heavily compressed samples, the HC1000 video of the "shop" looks brighter than that of GS400, though yellow tint appears to be strong. It also appears that the HC1000 has a higher contrast ratio.

I managed to see the new clips this aft. just before Guy pulled them - the "street" or highway shot was very impressive in terms of colours and so was the "shop" shot. The downtown street scene too was rich in colour and detail. Wow, the footage all looked so sharp!

The procinema stuff has a real nice feel to it - very high quality, very pro... I'm excited by the direction panasonic has taken. Recently, I've shot regularly with the DVX100, GS200 and DVC30 and they've all got interesting qualities - from what I've seen so far about the GS400, it seems to me to be an amazing bang-for-the-buck and the newer clips seem to further indicate that won't fail to impress...

Am hoping the clips come back soon!

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Kubat : Am hoping the clips come back soon! -->>>

Anybody willing to host the clips, I can send the files, but you've got to hurry because I'd be on vacation next week:-)).

DV Info Net can host them. Allow me to catch up on this thread... I'm talking to Guy and will get in touch with Allan in the morning (my morning that is, Friday, sorry about the time difference Allan!)

Oops, no we can't host them, due to copyright restrictions.

I'll be happy to host original clips though.

<<<-- Originally posted by Allan Rejoso : Maybe Robin simply read the spec sheets :-) and assumed that the HC1000 shutter speed setting behaves similar to Sony's other cams - you know, that Program AE controlled shutter speed, combined with slow shutter settings under digital effect. Let me verify first, but I do remember playing with and appreciating those low shutter speed settings of the HC1000 and thought 1/15 appeared very controllable.

I was able to verify this before I left Tokyo last week. I counted 20 manual shutter settings starting from 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60 all the way to 1/10,000 under video mode. In fact, the manually set shutter speed is displayed on the LCD. Of course, you have to first set the cam to manual using the slide switch located at the bottom left side of the lens barrel.

But there's a little inconvenience...If you set the shutter speed to manual mode, Brightness has to be set in Auto. If Brightness is set to manual (24 manual levels possible), the shutter speed is locked to the last setting. However, AE shift is still available (+-4) which allows the user to adjust the brightness somehow. Brightness level and AE shift settings are also displayed on the LCD.

For those who think the rotating grip is useless, it is IMO one of the most relevant features of this cam. Any grip position less than 45 degrees is quite uncomfortable due to the cam's heavy front.

I can imagine the inconvenience of making all the adjustments through the touch-panel but if you consider the market price of this cam against its overall features, I don't think I can complain. By the way, the HC1000 does not have Bluetooth and Network functions of the TRV950.

You'd hope that actual street prices would be lower than that, with the PDX-10 selling for $1850 it sure wouldn't make sense to spend $1700 on the HC-1000.

Good point Boyd. If I had to guess I would say that the HC-1000 will drop dramatically in price (like it has in Japan) to compete with the GS400 since they are very similar in specs.

Or... Maybe a new PDX10 is on the horizon? :)